Fasting’s Role In Minimizing Cancer Stem Cells

Introduction to the Summit and Guest 0:00

Welcome back to the Fasting and Longevity Summit. I'm your host, Dr. David Jockers, and I'm excited to go through this presentation today. It's all about how to use fasting to reduce cancer stem cells and your overall risk of chronic disease. My guest is Dr. Kevin Conners. He's a clinic director at Conners Clinic, an alternative cancer coaching center. He's been studying alternative cancer care for over 25 years and written numerous books, including Stop Fighting Cancer and Start Treating the Cause as Well as the Seven Phases of Detoxification, all of which are available at connersclinic.com He's also created numerous courses that deep dove into topics like cancer, RIF, Lyme disease, autoimmune genetics and more that you can find at courses.

connersclinic.com. And you guys are going to get so much value out of this interview if you're interested in cancer, you know anybody that's dealing with it or a family member. Definitely plug them in to this interview right here because we're going to do a deep dive. We're going to go through cancer stem cells and the best strategies to heal naturally. Guys are going to love this. So without further ado, let's go into the interview. Well, Dr. Conners, great to connect with you. And I know you've been studying natural and alternative strategies for cancer now for over 25 years, worked with, sure.

Cancer as a Root-Cause Disease 1:35

Thousands of clients. And so just really interested in how you view cancer. Let's start with that. How you view cancer, maybe some of the root cause factors that you're seeing involved with that. Well, cancer is a has a cause. I mean, that is the to be the biggest thing that's overlooked. And in the even at alternative circles of cancer is there. Everybody's trying to kill the cancer, which is admirable. And we we want to do that, but we want to get at the cause as well, because if you don't address the causes, we should keep that plural.

You know, the cancers consider they give you circulating tumor cells and those are going to set up what would raise a family somewhere else. If you don't get to the change, the value of the body that you're you're just going to end up with metastasis. So how we to answer the question, how do we do cancer, cancer as a cause? So to understand it as simply as possible, something had to get inside of a cell and disrupt the replication cycle of that cell. So normally a cell will reproduce itself about every 6 to 12 to 24 weeks.

And the mother cell, you could say, goes through a process of cell death called apoptosis. That that that baby cell lives for another 6 to 12 to 18 weeks to get to what type of cell it is, and that it will do the same thing. It will reproduce. Problem is, is that if something gets inside a cell, it disrupts that replication cycle. It could cause the cell to go into rapid replication and replicated cells that are in rapid replication. It disturbs the DNA of the nucleus of the cell. So that cell is in a state of rapid replication, replicating cells that are same dysfunction at rapid replication.

That's what cancer is by definition, is your cells that have got into rapid replication. And there's a reason why it's not just because of, you know, you got cursed with bad genetics, because that's not the reason. It's because something got inside there. And it's usually a toxin. It can be a living organism, like a fungi or or a bacteria or something that could cause that disruption. Both commonly, really, it's it's toxins, pesticides, herbicides are very common. That's why the uptick in cancer that we've seen over the last 30 years.

So you have to work on detoxification and pulling those things out. That's one of the processes of dealing with cancer. But I said there's multiple causes, so I'll give you a for instance, I just we do a different testing, virtual medicine tested on our patients. One of the tests we do is a bicycle tox test. So we're tested for toxins that mold produces. Just got off the phone prior to this interview with one of our patients, did a bike or tox tested. He had elevated MPA mycotoxin, which is a type of mycotoxin produced by the PENICILLIUM fungi.

And one of the things that that Mycotoxin it does is it inhibits the proliferation of T cells. So your T cells, your T lymphocytes are your natural killer cells that are involved in killing cancer. So that could certainly proliferate or help proliferate a cancer where your immune system can't attack it. So that would be another cause. So where that mycotoxins did it get inside the cell? It damaged the cell, it caused the replication. It's hindering the body's ability, the immune system, to be able to kill the cancer.

So when you investigate a person, everybody's different. Could have twin sisters that have breast cancer on the same side and very similarities, but they could have totally different causes, totally different milieu of the body that has to address this, totally different reasons why their immune system is suppressed. And you have to be a good enough practitioner that you're going to investigate those things, but just keep digging. Just got to keep on dig to get to these root pieces. Yeah, it's a good summary.

So basically cancer is an adaptive physiological process, the way the cells in the body is adapting to, you know, to toxins, infections and other root cause factors that are causing it to kind of not function at it

Toxins, Mycotoxins, and Immune Suppression 6:30

on an optimal level. Yeah. So I would say that. So yeah, this dead, DNA is a rapid replication of cells. So that's what cancer is. It's your old cells. It's not, it's not other cells that entered your body and it's all old cells that are at rapid replication. Yeah. And so that's what cancers are difficult for your body to fight too. So, so when it's your old cells, your build system is, is trained to not attack your old cells, you have certain receptors on t cells that tell it not to attack cells tissue.

So you have to, you have to hit that cancer with something and stimulate that immune system with other things to help bring that together so that your immune system will start attacking that cancer. And are you seeing mold and mycotoxins being a factor with a lot of your clients? Well, that's just one. So that was just one example because I just got off the phone with somebody that I thought we see glyphosate as a major issue. We see, you know, other pesticides and herbicides as major, major issues of causes.

But let's you correct that because you like detox, glyphosate, so you might clean out that person's body. You still have that smell that is that the end of it that gets it rapid replication. So you would still need to address that. So it's multifaceted when you're trying to take care of a person with cancer, you have to address the cause by that, help detox that big or whatever it is, or kill that organism. And then you have to stimulate the immune system and find out if there's other reasons why the immune system is suppressed and then work out that that would give immune stimulants to help kill that.

We use a lot of frequency medicine at our office to help stimulate an attack. The cancer itself. So it is multifaceted. It is complicated. It bothers me sometimes. Would you see things on the Internet, Facebook, where I hear this kills cancer are at 100% of the patients. It's like there's a lot of misinformation. You would in the alternative spectrum out for sure. For sure, yeah. And so you had mentioned obviously testing for different pesticides. Mycotoxins are you doing urine testing for that?

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So they they urinate. You're testing. And basically if things are elevated in the urine, it's a sign they're elevated in the body. And that could be affecting the cells in the body. Yes. So there's different we do urine tests, we do blood tests, we do stool, but glyphosate and mycotoxins are tested through a urine test. Yeah. Yeah. And you said you're using frequency medicine as well. Explain that for our audience here. So, you know, from a quantum physics perspective, everything is frequency.

It's quite a physics perspective. Even matter down to its smallest particle is simply energy that's vibrated at a specific frequency. But we know that everything, all our cells, all our organs, all our tissues are vibrated at different frequencies, and cancer vibrates at a different frequency, too. So one of the ways that you could help a person with cancer are because cancer is your own cells. And I mentioned that what are the difficult things that tried it naturally or even it standards of care realm to kill a growing cancer is that you're would you try to stimulate the immune system to attack a growing cancer.

You're you're you're trying to kill cell tissue.

Frequency Medicine and Rife Therapy 10:20

It's cancer is your self tissue though it's abnormally replicated it's still cell tissue. So your t cells, that natural killer cells, which are mainly responsible to kill cancer, your body has a mechanism to turn off their attack on itself. Otherwise you would destroy yourself that you you'd be dead when you got two weeks old. So there is a receptor on T cells that your cells that attach to a heard the T cells response forth. Now the more the T cells are, take you to look at a cancer, the better chance they will override that receptor and kill the cancer.

So the greater that you could step, the greater ways that you could stimulate t cell production, the better chance you have at killing cancer. Therefore, like a nutritional approach of taking a bunch of specific herbs and nutrients that are going to build a person's immune system and highly beneficial to help a person kill cancer. But using frequency better said can add another level of approach. Because if you can hit the cancer at its old frequency, at the very least you're going to cause that cancer to vibrate.

And whether you're causing that cancer to vibrate, you're going to elicit a immune response to take a look at it again. Remember I said, the more times that you could get your immune system to look at that cancer and go, boy, maybe we should do something about that. The better chance you're going to have of it overriding that T cell receptor response in it to kill the cancer. So that's the idea with frequency technology, with other wise delta is rife technology. You're hitting the cancer at its old frequency so that your immune system could recognize it as an enemy.

Instead, let's set up as self tissue. So the, you know, the hundreds of times it's take you to look at it, it will now start destroying it. And you do need to couple it with nutritional things to build the immune system. You need to couple it with the emotional things that you're going to deal with. It will stimulate the parasympathetic response to help build health in the body. You need a couple of with with addressing causes that detoxify the body and cleaning of the milieu around the cancer so the immune system can actually physically get at it.

But to us, that's been proven to be the best results. Yeah. And how does rife, you know, a lot of things kind of get lumped together when it comes to frequency medicine and light, you know, and different different rays of even on the UV spectrum. A lot of times they get lumped together and most people see it as a little bit esoteric. So how does RIF differentiate from EMF and from infrared? So infrared is not light therapy, it's below the red spectrum. You can't see infrared, so people will know that's not right.

I have an infrared light that I can see a red light. Well, if it's true infrared, you can't see it. So there's a lot of times a red light comes with the infrared. Right. So you get two different two different wavelengths. Two different wavelengths. So there's benefits to that. So there's great benefits to red light therapy, blue light therapy, different light therapy. So that's that's going to be mainly service benefit. And if there's a specific frequency to those therapies of PNAS is a whole other ball of wax that's electrical frequencies.

So there's huge benefits to that. And we push PMA for people. But the red light therapy, the light therapy like that, that's not going to be cancer. Killing PMA is not going to be cancer. Killing. You have to hit you have to use the frequencies of the kids or itself. So there's known frequencies for different cancers and it's not what people think. I have prostate cancer. What's the prostate cancer frequency? Well, there's maybe 150 node frequencies to prostate cancer. You need to write a program where your machine is rated all those different frequencies over a period of time and rotated through those frequencies because you've got to be able to stimulate that cancer at its frequency. So the prostate cancer frequencies are going to be different then breast cancer frequency.

So you you want to be ready the right frequencies. And I know that some people go, I don't believe it. They're frequencies. Well, like you use your cell phone, right? Yeah. You open up your cell phone and you plug in a number. It sends that information via a frequency up to a cell tower, you know, five miles away from you, beams it up via frequency to a satellite. There'd be a frequency. Don't know what other cell tower be a frequency to that other person's cell phone. It, it's a by dude part of a second.

It's all it's all from frequencies. You know Bill your electricity, your house is ready B a frequency electrical frequency. Everything is frequency. You can't say that you don't believe in frequencies, you just don't understand it. So all our cells are vibrating at a frequency. And, you know, the the healthier you are, the healthier cell vibration you have. That sounds very esoteric, but it is just physics. You don't have to get all do energy about that. You know, it's it's just a matter of physics.

If you could hit a cell at this old frequency, you're going to cause at the very least vibration, and you're going to help clean out that cell. You're going to help stimulated immune response to that cell that's going to bring health to that cell. If it's a cancer cell, it could help your body kill that cell. There's just a lot of benefits to it. So what we are treating cancer patients, you're using light frequencies specific to that cancer or if you're treated, let's say, a knee injury that you could use electrical frequency with AMF, that's going to be a totally different frequency and a different mode of frequency using electrical current that brings other benefits that healing you to add you know decrease inflammation and it gives the body a chance to be able to heal.

And so there's different uses of different frequencies through different types of modalities. Yeah, that's a really good explanation. And so really the difference there with the RIF is that it's actually helping

Fasting Strategies for Cancer Support 17:25

target the cancer and is in a sense, almost like putting a like a, like an alarm on the cancer for the immune system. So though so the immune system now can recognize it and target it as opposed to the cancer kind of hiding in the natural tissue of the body. Yes. So you're getting the kids or you're getting the immune system to take another at another, at another or at another, at another, look at it. So it will attack that if the person is laid at a hospital bed, their immune system is like completely shot.

The RIF is not going to be this magic tool that's going to bring that back to life. Because you got to have a you have to have an immune response. Yeah, you have to have an immune response. So to to couple the right with other therapies, other nutritional approaches, you know, you're talking about fasted, add it, clean it out the body to couple of the rife with as many other facets of it to stimulate a health feeling response is going to be a person's best approach. Hmm let's talk about that. Let's talk about some of these nutritional approaches.

I mean, you mentioned fasting, a huge topic that I'm really interested in. I've been using with people for many years. What are some of the best you know, what are the benefits people are going to get fasting and using like something like the right? And then also, what are the other nutritional strategies you like to use? Well, fasting is a strategy that we use with a lot of our patients. We typically recommend that they just do intermittent fasting and type restricted eating. What are the what are the co-morbidities that could go along with cancer as a person could lose too much weight and they could be losing weight on a weekly basis that they that they can't stop.

That's that that's a that's what's called cookie axia with cancer patients, you don't want that to take place. You can't do even type restricted eating with those people. But if they're not in a state of complexity, they're still at a state of, hey, I just found out I have cancer. They're still in a state of fairly good health fast. It could be wonderful now that the one thing that we caution with fasting with cancer patients is that there have been studies, some studies that show that if you fast over 24 hours, you could increase IGF one levels, which is really good for a non cancer patient.

You want elevated IGF one levels that helps create growth and healing. That's what are the benefits of fasting. But you don't really want to increase IGF one levels if you have cancer of a you don't want to increase growth factor. So we tend to have people fasts less than 24 hours, but there's a whole other avenue of fasting if you're doing standard of care. So if a person is doing chemo infusions, fasted for 24 or even 48 hours prior to chemo is a is that showed through multiple studies to be a huge benefit it increases the effectiveness of the chemo.

So if you're going to do chemo you want it to work, right? It increases the effectiveness of the chemo in a sense. If you could think of it like a cartoon, you're basically starving the body for 24 hours and cancer cell beads or highly metabolic is is really hungry. Right. So it's like looking for if you had some food source that you starve the cancer for 24 hours a day, you feed it a chemo infusion. The cancer is going to be much more likely to uptake the chemotherapy. That's what you want. Chemotherapy is the poison.

You want it to poison the cancer. Right. So it's going to be much more likely to uptake the chemo. It could kill the cancer more readily and the cells end up becoming your healthy cells actually have a protective mechanism against that. And actually, a person has been shown to have less side effects of the chemotherapy if they fast prior to the infusion. So fasting can be really beneficial for even those with cancer. The Reid standards of care, if they utilize it in that way as well. So using natural strategies, you like to do more intermittent fasting, time restricted feeding.

So where they're eating in like a six or eight hour eating window or something along those lines, but when they're doing chemo, doing like a 24, 48 hour fast before getting the chemo can make it more effective. So that way they get better uptake from the cancer cells. So better cancer, cancer killing from the chemo with less side effects and less residual damage on the normal cells. Exactly. Yeah. Powerful, powerful strategy. What are some of the other nutritional strategies you're utilizing? Well, then you have to look at, well, detoxification.

So if the if what are the main causes of the cancer is let's let's use like glyphosate says that example so you've got herbicides as a major cause of cancer that could have got inside the salad damage the replication cycle. You want to first of all change the person's diet so that there could still be less of those.

Detoxification and Immune Support 22:45

I mean, it's hard to consume blood even if you're eating a purely organic diet because there's cross-contamination, but you want to decrease exposure. So whatever you're you're thinking about detoxification, you can't be toxic by yourself at a greater rate that you're trying to detoxify yourself or you're fighting an endless battle. So you want to try your best to decrease exposure to poisons and toxins and things of that has to do with dietary changes. So you make that your best effort to make dietary changes that are reasonable, that you could stick to, that are going to clean out your diet and then you work on the detoxification process.

And I've kind of coined the term the seven phases of detox. So that just looking at the liver but looking at making sure you're cleaning out your bowel, making sure that you got binders in your gut, that you're not reabsorbed things, making sure that you're addressing the gallbladder or that that there are three phases that three phases of the liver detoxification process and dead pulling things out of the tissues. We always want to jump to that, pulling things out of the tissue, saying first and looking at the neurology of detoxification to the parasympathetic nervous system and Colby Doe, the synthetics.

So it's a process that you go through with the patient and walk them through it, educating them about those things. And then you also work concurrently, usually a stimulate the immune system. So you have to have a healthy spoke about that, a healthy immune function. So you want to use different nutrients, different herbals that will help stimulate the immune system and be able to elicit a response that could kill cancer cells and kill the circulating tumor cells. If you if you can't that you're not going to you could do everything else, but you're not going to win the battle.

So it's it's multifaceted. Do it again. So you have to look at it in the way of there's a lot of things I have to do. If you have a coach, it doesn't have to be so overwhelming. And you could do these things in steps, but you have to start taking the right steps. Yeah. So get the drainage pathways like you talked about, getting the drainage pathways opened up and, you know, starting to eliminate those toxins that are burdening the cells. So. SU Yeah. SUPERCRITICAL Where are the role of cancer stem cells?

How are cancer stem cells forming? And, you know, clearly this is this is a big area of research people are looking at somebody may not have a, you know, diagnosable tumor, but they may have started some cancer stem cells or they may be, quote unquote, in remission. But cancer stem cells are popping up. So how do you view those? So cancer stem cells and circulated tumor cells are the same. So a cancer stem cell does it. So cancer starts by something getting inside a healthy cell, causing cell replication.

It doesn't start with a cancer stem cell. So cancer begins with something getting inside a healthy cell. It causes cell replication. Now, as those cells replicate, they're replicated cells that are stayed the same space. Therefore, the mass is getting larger, right. So cancer can't be diagnosed. It won't be diagnosed until the cancer is rather large. As far as number of cells in a PET scan at a CT scan won't pick up cancer unless it's over 3 billion cells large. Okay. That's still pretty small, right?

Still size of a pinhead. Right. And so but that's a lot of cells. That's how small cell cells are way before cancer is diagnosed. It's giving off cancer. STEM cells are circulating tumor cells. I like to use circulating tumor cells because it's explained what they do. They circulate. So there are some that are stated. The best of the mass is getting larger, larger, larger. Now I have this bastard by breast that I could palpate. You know, it's a the billions and billions of billions of cells large now and now it could be diagnosed long before it was even palpable.

It was giving off cells that were circulating around. And if you think of it like a cartoon, again, because I'm a simple minded person, these cells are just circling around, looking for a place to set up home but raise a family. That's what metastasis is. And truly, for both cancers, it's a test. Assess that will end up causing the person's demise. If the person ends up passing away from the cancer, it's usually not the primary cancer in most cancers. So circulating tumor cells, kids are stem cells are circulated through the body looking for opportunistic places to move to and start replicating there.

Unfortunately, if a person just does standards of care so they get to go it, they find this lump of their breast the way after do something, they go and get a biopsy. Yep, it's cancer. So we're going to do let's say they're going to do chemotherapy, they're going to radiation, they're going to do a lumpectomy or whatever is the standard for that particular cancer. Chemotherapy may kill cancer cells that are in rapid replication because chemotherapy is going to be more attracted to more highly metabolic cells.

But chemotherapy does not kill kids or stem cells.

Cancer Stem Cells and Circulating Tumor Cells 28:35

So circulating tumor cells are not yet in a state of rapid replication. Therefore, chemotherapy is doing nothing to them and it gets even worse because chemotherapy is going to be attracted to rapidly replicating in cell lines. Well, that's good because that's what cancer is. Yeah, but that's why people lose their hair, because your hair follicles are rapidly replicating by nature. So it tends to attack your hair follicles and your build system is rapidly replicating. So you have two naturally, rapidly replicated cell lines in your body or hair follicles, speedier immune system.

So chemotherapy suppresses your immune response. So anybody who goes who's ever done chemotherapy knows that they have to get a white blood cell out before every chemotherapy because you know it's going to suppress your white blood cells. Well, what is going to what is going to kill circulating tumor cells if chemotherapy is not what is going to kill them? It the only thing that's going to kill them is your immune system. So the catch 22 of doing chemotherapy is that you're setting yourself up possibly for two years down the line, Oh, the cancer's cut back with a vengeance.

Well, not really. It ever went away. You know, you had a false idea that you were tumor free, no evidence of disease, but you were free diagnostic. At that point, the circulating tumor cells just had a greater opportunity to start raising that family in the liver. Yeah, and those cancer cells will adapt to those cancer stem cells now will adapt and become more more resistant to chemotherapy. Yeah. It gets worse, doesn't it. Yeah. So it's harder to treat. So what a lot of the conventional doctors are finding is, you know, the first time somebody gets diagnosed, they come in, they get chemo, they typically see fairly good results.

But then when the cancer comes back, very hard to treat. Well, that's what I'm in favor of. It just makes sense. It's like I'm not against doing chemo and I'm not against to a surgical debulking type of cancer or doing radiation. That's not my forte. Anyhow, I could give that advice. But why don't you keep that in your back pocket? Why don't you do things to address the cause? Why don't you do things that stimulate your immune system to change the environment that has allowed the cancer to live? Right.

But to do those things first, that then if you need to use chemo to knock it out, I mean, that you could choose to do that. But you're not you're not jumping to that in the first place. Yeah. And you could stack your odds by, you know, in a sense doing fasting, things like that when you do use the chemotherapy so you get the best possible benefit. I'm totally in alignment with you. I think that kind of a shotgun approach, it's like, you know, we're just going to flood the system with chemotherapy and almost create a reliance, you know, basically create a reliance on this sort of highly invasive, dangerous drug in order to to keep you alive rather than all these other things that you could be doing, you know, to kind of stack your odds and give you the best possible chance.

Right? Yeah. Super important. So when somebody comes to you with cancer, you're you're well, you're trying to do is obviously figure out you're using labs to try to figure out what the root cause factors are. And, you know, you had mentioned toxins. You had mentioned in factions. I'm sure mental emotional stressors are factors. You know, nutritional deficiencies, things like that can be factors as well. So you're using labs to figure that out. And then you're you're setting them up with kind of this frequency medicine approach using the rife.

And how do you figure out the right frequency for that individual? Well, there are doubled frequencies for different cancers either. Right, since the late nineties. So I have a lot of different specific protocols for different bone cancers. We also do kinesiology at our office. So we get cheek swabs from everybody to look at the allergy to get more specific for what we need for their type of cancer. That I also believe the cheek. Swab is that to get their genetic profile. No. So you are also. So that's another one.

We do, but we don't use genetics to develop the frequencies. So we use good EDCs to look at the metabolic pathways. Yeah. Make it a feed in to what could be a part of a cause of sugar or or more likely feed it to what could be hit during their body from being able to fight this disease. So yeah, so we look at genetics as well. We look at the cheek swab to get specific exactly what I think from a nutraceutical standpoint would be the best thing for that patient. We couple that with different functional medicine tests and standard medical tests to come up with a protocol for the person.

So all of our patient members are using the right, they're using nutrition, they're using diet, they're using things to stimulate their parasympathetic, called their sympathetic because neurology is important as well. And, you know, a lot of them are doing standard of care, too, so they're trying to do everything they can. A lot of our patients to us, because they've failed standards of care,

Personalized Testing and Closing Advice 34:15

we need to make it work for them or it's their cancers come back with a vengeance. So now they're starting to look at an alternative approach, which is, okay, you know, we're not here to shame anybody. We're just here to take them where they're at and move to the next step. So we just we try to do as much as that person is willing to do to to get their body functioning correctly. And that makes sense. I hadn't heard of using a cheeks cheek swab to find nutraceuticals. So how does how does that work?

Well, that's me doing kinesiology. Okay. When we see people in the office, we would do it a bell word. We were completely virtual because we see people from all over the world. Literally, they'll send us a cheek swab and we'll do it and we'll come up with the protocol that way. Okay. Interesting. So you're doing muscle testing off of you're basically holding the that the cheek swab. Yep. So the DNA of the person. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, very interesting. Absolutely. Well, you know, you're a wealth of knowledge.

And I know cancer is not the only thing that you're helping with. You're having people with Lyme disease. I mean, really autoimmune conditions, all different types of disorders. You also have a lot of programs set up to help educate people on different strategies when it comes to detoxification and strategies to take back control of their health. And I know that was a lot of work. And so, you know, any last words of inspiration or anything that you want to share with our audience here? Well, there were we a very big educated people, because I think the Borg, although that's what I so much appreciate about what you do.

I just think the more knowledge that you have, the better you could apply wisdom, because wisdom is the application to build. And so if you don't have the knowledge, you know, it's really hard to make correct decisions for your family. And I think we're moving to, you know, a stage in health care where that that you have to take personal responsibility for things and learn how to best take care of your old family. So that's why we set up the courses. I thought, okay, well, God gave me this knowledge.

I need to convey it to other people in ways that they could now take this and make better health decisions. And that's what I think you're doing just a terrific job of that as well. People need to be educated to be able to take responsibility for their health and make better choices. Well, thanks again, Dr. Conners, guys. You could check them out at connersclinic.com and to check out all his online courses. So wealth of knowledge there and he also does consults with people all over the world. So definitely check that out and refer anybody you know that you care about that may be suffering as well.

They can work personally with Dr. Conners on these things. And so thank you again for your time. Appreciate everything. And this is a wonderful interview. Everybody be blessed and we'll see you on a future interview.