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Beth O’Hara is a Functional Naturopath, specializing in complex, chronic cases of Mast Cell Activation Syndrome, Histamine Intolerance, and Mold Toxicity. She is the founder and owner of Mast Cell 360, a Functional Naturopathy Practice designed to look at all factors surrounding health conditions – genetic, epigenetic, biochemical, physiological, environmental,... Read More
Erika Schlick is a nationally recognized cookbook author and blogger as well as an IIN Certified Health Coach. She began her trail to health in 2012 after becoming chronically ill with Lyme Disease, Mold, Heavy Metals and multiple Autoimmune conditions. What followed was a five-year journey toward remission through various... Read More
- When to cut out gluten and dairy if you have mast cells issues and how to re-introduce them
- The role of lectins in MCAS
- Roles of healthy fats in MCAS
Beth O’Hara, FN
So welcome back to another episode of the Reversing Mast Cell Activation and Histamine Intolerance Summit. And we’re so excited to have Erika Schlick with us today. We’re gonna be talking about food intolerances. We’re gonna be talking about what to do if you’re dealing with things like oxalates, lectins, we’re gonna talk about how gluten and dairy tie in. And I wanna tell you a little bit about Erika. So she is a nationally recognized cookbook author and blogger. And, an IIN certified health coach. She had her own chronic illness journey that got her into all of this. And on the other side of being a licensed architect. Can you start, Erika, and just tell us some about that journey and, and some of your background?
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Yes, absolutely. So in 2012, I went on my third camping trip of my entire life and got unknowingly bitten by a tick. And for two years I went doctor to doctor, very similar to so many people’s stories, but a lot of my initial diagnosis were actually food allergies. I became allergic to everything except eight foods. I was diagnosed with celiac disease and all these gut issues, and I was reacting to everything. Now, I know it was probably histamine related. But in the time I was doing a lot of work on my gut, a lot of work on my diet. And I think that kind of set me up in a good position. So by the time I actually got diagnosed with lyme disease, I had done a lot of work around diet and gut. And then I could kind of go into my lyme treatments and I treated for three years. I didn’t do any antibiotics. I did everything all natural. And in 2016, I did stem cell therapy. And for me, that was my magic bullet that got me into remission.
And I’ve been in remission since, um, obviously it’s still kind of an ongoing journey, you know, I’m lyme symptom free, but still managing, you know, if I enter a place that has mold, that definitely sets off some histamine issues and, you know, little mold reactivity and things like that. So always being really conscious of my environment, still working on keeping my diet very, very clean, low, in histamine and things like that. And yeah, for the most part, you know, as long as I don’t get gluten, cause one of the first things that triggered on was celiac disease for me. So as long as I don’t get gluten, don’t get attacked by mold somewhere that I go, I live a pretty good life, so I’m happy to be in remission. And now I started my blog when I was kind of in the middle of my lyme journey and it kind of started off as like a way to track what treatments I was doing in order to help other people.
And since then, it’s evolved to doing a lot more kind of health tips to keep people healthy before they get into a chronic illness state, and also sharing healthy recipes to keep you healthy, whether you’re dealing with chronic issues or just wanna eat clean. Uh, and I wrote my first cookbook in 2018, all sorts of really healthy recipes to help people kind of be nourished and feel good. And I’m currently working on my second one. So now that I’m in remission, I’ve been able to share a lot of the information I learned, hoping to help someone not be in my shoes, and people that are in my shoes, be able to heal and start to live a more normal life.
Beth O’Hara, FN
And we do know that there’s such a mast cell connection with things like lyme, mold toxicity, celiac disease, pretty much anytime we’ve got these multisystem inflammatory processes, there’s gonna be some mast cell involvement. So I imagine you dealt with that as well. And so you being, having celiac, have this huge focus on gluten free, and then I know we’re gonna talk about some other types of food intolerances people have. What if we start with that, can we just start with the difference between celiac and gluten intolerance, and share that part with our audience?
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Absolutely. So celiac disease, I think they say affects about 3% of the population and it’s when your body has an autoimmune reaction to gluten. So, there’s little hair in our small intestine called the villi and gluten will atrophy those and those are really important cause they help you get all your nutrients out of your food. And you know, when they’re flattened, you’re gonna be malnourished. You’re not gonna be absorbing your nutrients. So the difference between that and someone that’s just sensitive to gluten is someone who is, doesn’t have celiac disease, but is sensitive to gluten. Will have a gluten reaction, but it’s not going to be atrophying those villi. And they may not be dealing with so much anti lack of like absorption of their nutrients. But that being said, you know, a lot of people still have a pretty severe reaction to gluten, even if they’re not celiac. And I think where people get confused is that a celiac, or a gluten reaction can just be like, oh I got bloated or, oh my gut hurts, but it can manifest in so many different ways. Like for me personally, I actually don’t get any gut issues from gluten. I get all neuro issues.
So I get like a headache back here in the back of my head, I get really bad brain fog, uh, you know, insomnia, anxiety, depression, I get very moody. I get tingling in my finger so it can manifest as all sorts of things. So sometimes people are just looking for a gut reaction. They’re like, oh I’m fine. But it can also be your skin, you know, hyper, uh, uh, dermatitis that can, that can happen, especially like on your hands and things like that. So there’s a whole kind of realm. And until I think, until you can strictly cut out gluten for at least 30 days, and then try to reintroduce it and pay attention to all those symptoms, you’re not really gonna know if you’re sensitive to it or not.
Beth O’Hara, FN
Yeah. Those are great points. And you talked about how celiac is less common. Gluten tolerance is much more common, but people can have some significant issues. And I think about too, it can be gluten, it can be glyphosate. It can be other chemicals that are in that gluten and, in, in those kind of gluten brains that are so high, particularly in wheat. And we can have destruction going on in the gut and not have bloating or gas. I remember, I remember when I, I, I’ve been gluten free for a long time. And I remember when I decided to test it out, and I, I’d probably been off gluten for a good six years at this point. And my husband and I were on vacation, and we were scuba diving and it was his birthday and the, on the boat, the company had made him a banana cake and it looked so good. So, I really wanted that piece. And I thought, well, it’s been six years. I can probably get away with it. And like you’re describing, I didn’t have the gut symptoms, but I woke up the next morning and I could barely walk. My joints hurt so bad. And then I was covered from my fingertips to my elbows in eczema that lasted about two months from that one piece.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Wow.
Beth O’Hara, FN
So for me, that was the big, the big clue. Okay, this is important for me and not everybody’s gonna be triggered by gluten, but particularly in our mast cell audience, it, it can be a trigger. Can you talk about that? Why in terms of the immune response, even for people who don’t have celiac, why can gluten be such a problem?
Erika Schlick Sinclair
You know, gluten is just more of those very inflammatory foods. And I think what’s already going on in someone that’s dealing with chronic illness or mast cell, your immune system is already so activated. So, the more you kind of pile on top of that, the more your immune system is gonna be angry for lack of better words and be inflamed and cost symptoms and you know, kinda rile all these things up. So the more, the way I kind of look at your immune system is like, it’s kind of like an energy bank account. The more things you do to kind of lower the inflammation and nourish it and calm all those things, you’re gonna be better and you’re gonna have more wiggle room, you know, for when maybe you do get exposed to a high histamine food and things like that. But, if you’re eating a high histamine food and then you’re eating gluten, all of a sudden your immune system is kind of at its boiling point. So, the more you can do to kind of control that and lower that inflammation, I think the calmer in general, your health is gonna be, and start to kind of lower that, that histamine and, and mast cell reaction. And, you know, it’s interesting with gluten, the doctor that finally diagnosed me with celiac disease and lyme, he said, he felt that gluten was gonna be like the next smoking.
Like most of us know it’s not good for us most of us know it causes inflammation, but people are still kind of doing it anyways. But maybe in 20, 30 years, people are gonna start to realize all the health issues and implications that it has and all the inflammation that it’s causing in your body and really start to kind of pay more attention to that. And I think it’s interesting, you know, gluten can kind of almost be addictive. It binds to the same opiate receptors as like an opiate would. Uh, so that’s why a lot of times when people cut it out, they actually don’t feel good. They go through kind of a withdrawal or carb flu and feel really sick and achy because you’re kind of detoxing it out of your system. And so it can take a couple weeks to actually before you start to feel any benefit of feeling better after cutting it out. So, that just shows how much inflammation it’s causing in your body and how much kind of dependence on your brain and your immune system, uh, is being affected by it.
Beth O’Hara, FN
Yeah, those are great points. And I tell my clients, they need to be a hundred percent gluten free for six weeks.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Mhm.
Beth O’Hara, FN
And then if they accidentally get an exposure, we’re back at week one. Just to reset the whole system because of these things that you’re describing, we know, know that gluten are particular receptors on the mast cells that gluten can trigger and increase mast cell activation. It’s one of the primary things that I ask people to, trial out and stay gluten free throughout addressing their root causes. Even if they don’t have histamine intolerance. And some people with mass cell activation may not have histamine intolerance, but that gluten can be such a trigger. And then we know those proteins also are so similar to thyroid proteins.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Yes.
Beth O’Hara, FN
And thyroid autoimmunity is very common in this population. So, either to help reduce that thyroid autoimmunity, or to help prevent developing some of it while we’re getting out of issues like mold toxicity and lyme, that can be so helpful. So then there’s another food group that triggers not everybody, but a lot of people. And that’s dairy, let’s talk about dairy.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
So dairy, I feel like is kind of a gray area of food and I’ve done a lot of experimenting for myself personally, to try to cut it out. See if I react to it in kind of the same diligence that I took with gluten. Uh, and I think it’s easy to call all dairy one, but you know, there’s factory farm dairy, that’s low fat and you know, very inflammatory, not good for you. And then you have grass fed dairy, and then there’s even raw dairy from like grass fed animals. And I think they’re all very different. And it’s a, another one of those foods that I definitely recommend taking out for 30 to 60 days, experimenting with. Do not reintroduce factory farm dairy, that should be avoided at all costs for any diet. Uh, but maybe experiment with some grass fed dairy or grass fed ghee, grass fed butter. Those usually that tends to be less inflammatory for people cause it doesn’t have a lot of casein, doesn’t have a lot of lactose, which is what usually causes an issue with dairy.
And then, you know, if you’re open to it, raw dairy can have a lot of benefits as well. It has immunoglobulins and lactoferrin. And some of the enzymes that, you know, people might have difficulty digesting, dairy can actually tolerate it when it’s intact and not pasteurized. So, it’s kind of one of those gray area foods. It’s not like gluten where you can kind of lump it all into like all gluten is not good for you. You know, there’s, there’s caveats with dairy. But again, it’s one of those that I think, for sure when you’re first kind of embarking on your diet journey and chronic illness journey, a hundred percent cut it out for, you know, maybe even three months, at least minimum, just to give your body a break, let your body kind of resend you those signals. And then start with those very high quality dairies or the ones that are gonna be less inflammatory, like some grass fed ghee and see how that goes. And then from there kind of expand and see if it’s something that you can incorporate or if it’s something that just doesn’t work for your body.
Beth O’Hara, FN
Yeah and I really like that. I find that a lot of people can tolerate the grass fed ghee. I like that much better than the conventional because in that you’re gonna have those growth hormones.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Absolutely.
Beth O’Hara, FN
You’re gonna have a lot of other kind of chemicals, antibiotics, and things like that that are gonna get into that fat. But with the, the grass fed ghee, we don’t have that casein, that milk protein or dairy protein that can be an autoimmune reaction or other types of immune reaction or the, the lactose in there.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Exactly. And it’s such a good fat to cook with because it has such a high smoke point and you know, it’s a very stable fat to cook with and use on your food. So I’m a, a big fan of grass fed ghee.
Beth O’Hara, FN
Yeah. And then it has that neutrophil that can help with the gut repair. So that’s really nice in ghee as well. We like to use it sometimes with detox protocols to help with the gut. And with the dairy and the wheat, they, these are such complex proteins. And what I’ve found is a lot of times people come in and they will have had a very simple food test, like an IgG food test. But we need to think of much bigger when we’re looking at things, foods like wheat, dairy, even corn that have these complex multi types of proteins and easily miss it with the, those types of just what we think of is like a food IgG food panel. And, and this is because they’re only testing one or two proteins and you might have antibodies to one of the other 30, 40, proteins that are in these. So, there are some tests like, uh, the vibrant food zoomers are my favorite for those complex proteins. People can get through a practitioner and look more deeply in that.
And then we wanna look at even IGES and particularly for this mast cell population. I want to circle back just a little on the raw milk too, I used to drink raw milk. And I found it, it felt really nourishing. And for people that can get it from a really clean and safe source, that can be great option that a two type of milk. Uh, just wanted to do a quick side note that it can be a little higher histamine though, for people with the histamine intolerance, which isn’t everybody, but always think about those keys. So we’ve talked about gluten, we’ve talked about dairy, let’s talk about lectins. Something that’s not frequently talked about and tell our listeners what are lectins and how might they know if, if, they have a lectin intolerance or this is something they might wanna look at? Cause of course we don’t wanna whittle our foods down unnecessarily.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Right. Yeah. So, lectins kind of fall into the category of an anti nutrient. And an anti nutrient is something that is in a food or plant compound that reduces the body’s ability to absorb the nutrients from it. So a lot of times it’s to protect itself against predators and birds and you know, the plant is doing what it can to survive, but at the same time, it may not be good for us humans eating it. So, lectins are definitely a type of anti nutrient. And they’re a protein that attaches itself to the sugars in your cell. And so this can really disrupt the metabolism and absorption in your small intestine and keeps your small intestine from absorbing foods. So again, going back to gluten, if you’re celiac and you’re already have that villi atrophy, you’re not absorbing your foods. And then you’re adding in lectins, which are causing more absorption issues in your intestine, you can start to see it’s a really kind of chain reaction of issues absorbing your nutrients. So, lectins are generally found in like beans, and nuts, and grains.
Anything that’s kind of like a seed that needs to protect itself. Nightshades can have it too. A lot of times with nightshades, the lectins, if you cook it, tend to kind of, you know, come out of it. And for the most part you eat most nightshades cooked. Uh, tomatoes, I guess not necessarily always cooked, but better to eat them cooked just to kind of break down some of that irritation. Uh, and then a lot of times, you know, people are, uh, like, some of the symptoms that you can get from lectins is gonna be things like joint pain or brain fog. You might have skin issues, migraines, things like that. So if you’re starting to notice that when you eat foods that have lectins, that can be kind of a way to notice it. And you know, the more lectins you eat, the more damage you’re gonna be doing to your body. So, you don’t wanna eat high lectin foods in every single meal. You know, again, going back to the grains and things like that.
And you talked about like the proteins as well as like being sensitive to those other things. So, I always recommend an, an like a elimination diet is really the best way to do it. You know, you can do these tests, these food allergy tests and sensitivity tests, and they might give you like a good baseline to start and be like, oh, well it says I’m sensitive to tomatoes. I should pay more attention when I eat that. But you may eat ’em and feel fine and not notice anything. But again, you know, doing that 30 to 60 day elimination, cutting out some of these lectins, cutting out gluten and dairy, and then reintroducing those things one at a time, you’d be surprised the signals your body starts to give you again, after you’ve kind of given a break. And cutting these things out, isn’t forever. You know, like I said, I was allergic to eight, like, I could only eat about eight foods and I can eat pretty much everything now.
There’s definitely foods I avoid like gluten and things like that, just because they don’t work for my body. But, I can eat them without having a severe reaction or if I eat them, I know I may not feel optimal for a day or so. So it’s not forever, you know, you’re really just kind of reteaching your body, relearning what works for your body. And I think it gives you a really amazing kind of feedback loop, too, doing an elimination diet because you start to notice how things affect you. And you can kind of use that with other things too, you know, you can use that like, well, I walk in this room and I don’t feel good. There may be like mold or something going on in there. Or even with people, you know, like you start to get this really intelligent feedback loop with your body that you can use with diet, with lectins, with gluten and in your surroundings, which I think is just such a key piece in healing from any chronic illness.
Beth O’Hara, FN
Definitely. And that’s a great thing that you brought in that you were down to eight foods and now you can eat pretty much anything other than, of course you’ll probably be gluten free, the rest of.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Oh yeah, I’m celiac. So like I react to a microscopic from gluten. Unfortunately that one I’m still very sensitive too.
Beth O’Hara, FN
Yeah, but I love that bringing hope. And I was down to 10 foods at one point that I was barely tolerating. So I just wanna remind people that if you’re in that small amount of food, don’t go to whittling away more. And I do have some people who are down to just three or four foods and that includes wheat and that includes dairy. So that’s not the time to do the elimination. It’s, it’s when you have a lot of variety and then you’re working on figuring out what, what specifically may be triggering you. So with these lectins, what’s interesting too, is that wheat contains a huge amount of lectins. And while we can pressure cook out some of the lectins, it is so high in wheat and corn, we can’t pressure cook those out. Oats have lectins, rice, quinoa. I think of like the new world vegetables. So this is gonna be the nightshades you described. The, the eggplants, the tomatoes, the peppers, then we’re gonna have things like squashes. Winter squashes, and, and summer squashes and yellow squash.
And then sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds. And then interestingly, the almonds, the skin of the almonds, but not underneath the skin. So if you blanch the almonds, now we’ll talk about oxalates in almonds in just a minute here. But we found also that lectins will actually dock on a receptor on mast cells called the toll-like receptor which is the same receptor for bacteria, like lyme for viruses, for molds. And I see an increase of sensitivity in people dealing with mold toxicity and lectins. And particularly when people have autoimmunity, then lectins have a role in that auto immunity, they have a role in cardiovascular issues and cancer. So those can be some of the applications to start to look at it. I started reintroducing. So, lectins got rid of my getting out lectins, got rid of my joint burning. I had this, this ongoing joint burning, like they were on fire. And then when I started to reintroduce, I found that I still can’t do tomatoes. I still can’t do cucumbers. Although if you peel ’em and seed them, that can help reduce it. But I can do rice and I can do pressure cooked winter squashes, which is so exciting to get back.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
I know it’s always exciting when you get out of food back in, you’re just like, oh my God, my life is so much better now, just one extra food.
Beth O’Hara, FN
I don’t care about getting junk food. I could never eat junk food again. I want the vegetables. Like I want the variety there. Well, let’s now talk about oxalates. Tell us for our listeners what oxalates are, what kind of foods they’re in, and symptoms associated with those?
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Sure, so oxalates are another one of those anti nutrients, another way for the plant to protect itself. And these are mostly found in rock cruciferous vegetables. So kale, spinach, uh, you know, it can even be in chard and buckwheat. Parsley even has it, which I actually use a lot. Uh, poppy seeds. So these are oxalates will bind to the calcium in your body, and they’ll create like these sharp little crystals that will end up in your muscles. They can also cause kidney stones. Uh, so you might know if you have like any muscle issues where you feel kind of some sharpness or something kind of hard in your muscles, that might be due to oxalates. So, eating that kale smoothie or green juice, and spinach salad, as healthy as you think you might be being is actually not great to eat those in high amounts, uh, raw.
Now cooking them will get rid of it. Or if you soak things in water or acidic water that can really start to break down the oxalates as well. So, you can enjoy your spinach sauteed, little bit of grass fed ghee, is perfect. But eating it raw can really, really start to cause issues. It can also cause some burning sensations that I’ve heard in some people like in the eyes and the mouth and nose area. Uh, so it’s really interesting. So if you’re feeling any sorts of symptoms, um, regarding like, those kind of like sharp crystals or that burning sensation, try eliminating foods that are high in oxalates again for like 30 to 60 days, and then seeing how, if any of those symptoms improve. And that might be one of the reasons.
Beth O’Hara, FN
Yeah. And I think about our, our top oxalates foods that in the testing data showed sweet potatoes, beets, spinach, Swiss chard, plantain, quite high. And let me think, uh, chocolate is a bit high. I think I might’ve have missed one, but those are some of the biggest ones. And, and then there’s different levels of oxalates in these foods. So like you’re saying, we do know that boiling will leech out the oxalates into the water and reduce it. But there, we, we wanna think about swapping foods. I think about replacing instead of whittling. I know you do too. And so we, we want to look at well, curly kale has much higher oxalate. so let’s go to dino kale. And that’s a good swap instead of spinach, which is also super high histamine, I love to swap arugula, which is a great sub and even more nutrient dense on some of the mast cell stabilizing nutrients. So people can do that. I do wanna caution people not to go low oxalate cold turkey because, those oxalates get stored in the tissues, and then they can start flooding the bloodstream and they can trigger kidney stones. It can trigger what’s called dumping and that’s so painful.
So I like to have people take about six months to taper down. If they’re doing a lot of beets, sweet potatoes, they’re doing a lot of Swiss chard and spinach then thinking about taking one of those foods down by about an eighth of their normal quantity per week and a, and a slow taper there. This was a game changer for me when I, part of my own story was I was in such severe joint pain. By the time I was 28, my friends were, you know, out having fun. And I was in orthopedic shoes and hobbling with a cane. I could barely walk across the room. It was like walking on ground glass in my joint. And I had been screened for every kind of autoimmunity. They thought I had some kind of really rare form of rheumatoid arthritis, but I had no vis, visible redness or swelling. I didn’t have any heat, but it was, it was severe, but it would move around and it would come and go. And I, it, it would be much worse in the winters. Well, that’s when I was really loading up on seasonal veggies that were more available, like the, the, the curly kale and doing lots of beets, sweet potatoes, things like that. And then it would get better in the summer. And the oh, one other tip is that curly kales high oxidate, but flat leaf is much lower. So there’s again, you just swap you just.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Right. It’s so interesting how in the same plant, it can just be such a different set of nutrients or anti nutrients that you can get into your diet.
Beth O’Hara, FN
Yeah. And you talked about oxalates finding calcium. We can take minerals with our meals to help reduce those oxalates as well. So if we take magnesium with the meal or calcium with the meal, it can help lower those oxalate loads. So we’ve got some great information, great background care about gluten and dairy, about lectins, and oxalates. How, how can people start to navigate? Let’s talk more, you mentioned before the, the doing an elimination, how can people start navigating these food intolerances and sensitivities, but, but still get the nutrients that they need. That’s a big concern in this population.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Yeah absolutely. I mean, it’s hard, you know, you hear these lists of all the foods like you shouldn’t be eating and you’re like, well, those are healthy foods. Why can’t I eat those on top of everything else? But, uh, I think one thing to kind of remember is like the elimination diet is not forever. You know, 30, 45 days, maybe 60 days, if you’re in a really chronic state. And you know, you definitely wanna try to do like low histamine foods. I find doing a mostly animal based, uh, elimination with some of the vegetables like arugula and things like that that are not gonna cause any of these other kind of histamine issues or oxalates, or, you know, lectin issues like that. Being conscious of that. So trying to do kind of like an AIP without the histamine issued foods, and then doing mostly animal based. And on an animal based diet you know, I’ve seen some amazing transformation stories. Uh, kind of starting with that, people are getting really healthy, really strong. They’re eliminating a lot of these issues, eliminating a lot of inflammation and it’s so nutrient dense, your body can definitely live off of that for 30 to 45 days.
Uh, as you start to add in new foods into that. And I’m not saying like, don’t eat any vegetables at all. You know, like there’s definitely vegetables and fruits that are safe, that aren’t gonna cause inflammation and cause some of these other issues. Uh, you know, incorporating eggs, of course. Uh, I always say to use fresh herbs, not to use like seasonings for a couple reasons. First of all, they could have hidden gluten, hidden starches. Also a lot of our spices these days are irradiated so that they do that to prevent mold growing in it. But that also kills all the nutritional value of the herbs. Uh, you know, also there could be like a histamine mold issue if you get one that’s not irradiated. So, I kind of stay away from jarred spices in general and just try to stick to fresh herbs as much as possible. Uh, you know, avoid citrus fruits if you’re having histamine issues. Unfortunately, that can kind of cause a little bit of a histamine reaction. Uh, doing rice if you can tolerate it. Uh, white rice is preferred over brown rice, it’s a little easier to digest. And one good thing with rice is if you cook it and then you cool it, it can actually be a resistant starch which can be really good for your gut, your gut bacteria. So that’s a good way to kind of support your gut and get a little bit of grain and starch in there. And then, you know. What’s that?
Beth O’Hara, FN
Well that white rice, we don’t think about that as being a good food, but it does give people starch source. Plus that white rice is gonna be lower histamine and lower lectin than the brown rice, which.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Exactly.
Beth O’Hara, FN
Is counterintuitive.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Yep. And then, yeah, I mean you can eat it cooked in warm obviously, but cold kind of gives you that extra bonus. And then also, you know, using healthy fats. I think one thing we didn’t talk about as like something being very inflammatory is seed oils. Like they are just so inflammatory for our body. They’re basically like most of them are just a byproduct of industrial waste that’s been marketed as heart healthy and is far, the farthest from the truth. Like I completely avoid those and I’ve noticed cutting those out of my diet really made a big difference in my inflammation. So, you know, sticking to coconut oil, grass fed ghee if you tolerate it, using some tallow things like that can be a much more stable, healthy, fat to cook your food and give you some of those healthy fat calories to keep you full and nourished and healthy while you’re kind of going through this elimination phase.
Beth O’Hara, FN
That’s a great point on the fats because so many times we’re really weighted heavily towards the omega sixes and versus omega threes. And it’s not like the omega sixes are bad, we need some, but it’s about the ratio and the balance.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Absolutely.
Beth O’Hara, FN
And particularly with the omega threes, they get converted in our bodies to something called special pro-resolving mediators, or pro, pro-resolving mediators. And these resolvents and protectin that get in our body, or we convert the omega threes to, are very mast cell stabilizing. They really needed to balance inflammation. So we can get those from, if people can get and tolerate frozen salmon that was frozen after catch, then that’s gonna be lower histamine. And that’s a fish source that can have really good omega three profile. And there’s some supplements that a lot of people with histamine intolerance don’t tolerate fish oil, but there are some supplements around that, that just have these pro-resolving mediators that I’ll have on our resources page for the summit for people to, to look into as well.
So, what kind of foods, we’ve talked about foods that could be problematic, and when we’ve been touching on some foods. Things like the fresh herbs, which I also love because fresh herbs are some of the most nutrient dense foods. They’re the closest to what we would’ve eaten in the wild. And those are the most nutrient dense. If you can go out and you don’t spray your yard and your neighbors don’t spray and you can get really fresh dandelion greens, those are incredibly nutrient dents. So the wild onions, make sure they’re really onions, cause there’s some things that look like wild onions. But I, I bring, I bring these things in from our yard quite a bit and we live near woods. And so I’ve learned how to, forage and recognize some of the wild foods that are next best are these nutrient dense, fresh herbs. And particularly if people can grow their herbs, that’s even better.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Absolutely, it’s so easy to grow an herb garden.
Beth O’Hara, FN
Yeah. Now what other kinds of foods do you recommend for people with mass on histamine issues that are gonna be really nutrient dense and healing?
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Yeah, so, like I said, I think an animal based diet is really great. So, you know, uh, trying to do meats, uh, you don’t want meats that have been sitting out a while. You don’t wanna do like leftover meats cause that can kind of stir up some histamine things. But uh, meat especially if it’s been frozen right away. Uh, I sometimes shop at a vendor called Wild Fork and they freeze their food as soon as they butcher it. So I’m, I’m hoping that’s a little bit lower in histamine by doing that. Uh, you know, eggs are really great, you know, you want to eat those fresh herbs like I said. The healthy fats, uh, as far as like milks and stuff go, you know, experiment with the raw dairy. But you know, see if that works for you, if not, coconut milk tends to be a healthier kind of milk, as long as you don’t have any with like additives in it, you want just straight coconut milk. Uh, you know, and then again with those other foods, like you’re not cutting them out forever. So, you know, the spinach may not have to like cut it out forever, but just see how it affects you. And you know, like you said, swap it out for arugula, swap it out for foods that don’t have as many seeds in them, fruits that don’t have as many seeds and seeing how those work for your body.
Beth O’Hara, FN
And we, you talked about finding the, the meat that’s frozen after slaughter so helpful for histamine intolerance. It can be hard to find that. So you mentioned Wild Fork, and we have a couple of our partners on our resources page, Northstar Bison and White Oak pastures are really good at that. People don’t often think about meat as being so nutrient dense. They think about it like macronutrients and protein, but in particular there’s some of these, what I love about these companies is they have things like unaged bison, unaged meat. So you can get that iron, uh, rabbit. Some people have trouble thinking about eating rabbit, but rabbit is an elk, a really high protein and iron and the type of heme iron that our bodies need. And then if we can get organ meat, like.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
I was gonna, yeah, that was my next one. Organ meats, like trying to incorporate that into your diet as well, because that’s so nutrient dense, like getting that liver in and you know, all the different organ meats that you can, you can do, they just benefit your body so much, give you so much vitality. And there’s like a few supplements that make ’em now too. So if you have a hard time actually eating it, you can try it in the supplement form. I don’t know how that is as far as histamine, but there’s one in particular, I just got that actually, I forget what organs it has in it, but it’s meant to help with histamine and your immune system to kind of help support that. So resources like that as well though, too.
Beth O’Hara, FN
Yeah, kidneys high in DAO that helps break down that histamine. And then in these organ meats as well, people don’t realize that there’s a lot of choline. There’s a, then there’s actually B vitamins in those. Sometimes some of the organ meats even have a little vitamin C in them. So that’s so interesting. And, and places like we’re describing, like the White Oak pastures, the Wild Fork, the, uh, Northstar Bison, they have these organ meats available frozen after slaughter. And the Northstar Bison had all of their meats tested and they came back with negligible amounts of histamine. It was actually below the testing levels, including the grounds. And they have some grinds with.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
It’s called Northstar you said?
Beth O’Hara, FN
Northstar Bison, yeah. And they have some grinds that have the organ meats in there mixed in. So it kind of hides that flavor.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
That’s such a good way to do it. Cause then it’s like, you’re a little adverse to it or the smell getting it in that ground meat or even making a pattee of it somehow with some fresh herbs and things like that can really be a, a way to sneak it in.
Beth O’Hara, FN
Well, this has been fantastic information. I know you have a lot of recipes on your website. They’re not all low histamine, so they kind of different options for people at different stages of healing, which is really nice. But I just saw that you had looked like a, a chicken rice cilantro dish. So it was really tasty looking and beautiful pictures on there, great recipes. How can people find you?
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Absolutely. My blog is thetrailtohealth.com and then you can find me on Instagram, Pinterest, all the socials as the trail to health as well.
Beth O’Hara, FN
Wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us, Erika really appreciate you sharing your knowledge and, and, and your life experience in this area to help people heal.
Erika Schlick Sinclair
Yeah. Thank you for having me. It was great to share, share this information and talk with you.
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