Full Transcript Introduction to Self-Sabotage 0:07 Welcome back to the Heal Your Brain masterclass. 0:09 I'm your host, Doctor David Jockers, and today 0:11 I've got the honor of interviewing Doctor Audrey Schnell. 0:14 And we're talking about 0:15 how to rewire your brain and finally break the pattern of self-sabotage. 0:20 There are so many people who are smart and motivated, 0:23 but they struggle to improve their health even when they know exactly what to do. 0:27 And that's because they've got some internal issues 0:30 that are causing self-sabotage. 0:31 We're going to go through that in detail. 0:33 Doctor Audrey Schnell is a coach, speaker, and strategist 0:36 who helps high achieving professionals stop getting in their own way 0:40 and create vibrant health, wealth, freedom and momentum that actually lasts. 0:44 With a background in clinical psychology and a PhD in epidemiology 0:48 and biostatistics, Audrey brings a rare combination of scientific 0:52 rigor and practical insight to human behavior and change. 0:55 Her work focuses on why smart, 0:57 capable people struggle to translate insight into action 1:01 not a lack of motivation or confidence, but outdated internal models, 1:05 hidden blindspots, and internal systems that quietly drive self-sabotage. 1:09 And again, we're talking all about 1:11 how to rewire your brain and finally break the pattern of self-sabotage. 1:15 You can also find Doctor Audrey Schnell work at audreyschnell.com. 1:19 That's audreyschnell.com. 1:21 Be sure to check out her website. 1:22 You guys are in for a treat with this interview. 1:25 And here we go. We'll get started with it. 1:28 Well, here I am with Doctor 1:30 Audrey Schnell, and we're talking all about self-sabotage. 1:34 One of the main things that's holding 1:35 a lot of people back from reaching their health goals 1:37 and really goals in every area of their life, relationships, finances. 1:41 I mean, in so many areas, just, self-sabotage is a really big thing, 1:44 and all of us do it to some degree, and some people do it a lot more than others. 1:49 And let's talk about how to what self-sabotage is 1:51 and really best strategies for for breaking that. 1:55 Great to be with you, doctor Audrey. Thank you. 1:57 Thank you so much for having me here. 1:58 Yeah, it's the human condition. 2:00 You know, it doesn't mean that sometimes we feel crazy 2:04 because we end up not doing what we want to do or. 2:07 Or even worse, doing the opposite. 2:09 And then we go down the rabbit hole of what's wrong with me? 2:12 When really self-sabotage is just the human condition 2:15 and should really maybe be called self survival 2:19 because it's us, those resistance to change that fear, 2:24 not necessarily fear of failure or success, just fear of the unknown. 2:28 Fear of doing something different. 2:31 That just derails 2:32 people and it creates, you know, the more you don't do what you want to do, 2:37 the more you lose self-confidence, self-trust. 2:41 And so you people get stuck in that kind of failure loop
Why Self-Sabotage Happens 2:45 and, and have trouble getting out of it when they really want. 2:50 You know, it's not a lack of discipline necessarily, or motivation 2:54 or intelligence. 2:56 It's just learning how to overcome 3:01 those, those roadblocks that we all have. 3:04 You know, like you said, some more than others. 3:07 But we all have it somewhere. 3:09 And it's actually a good thing in a way, because it says, yeah, 3:13 I'm doing something new. 3:15 I'm doing something important, 3:17 and I just have to look at the ways I'm holding myself back, 3:20 getting in my own way. Yeah, yeah. No doubt. 3:22 Now I always talk about how health is really. 3:24 It's it's a it's a positive momentum cycle. 3:27 So for example, you know, when you get a good night's sleep, 3:31 you're more motivated the next day to get more movement 3:34 in, to exercise, to make better, you know, nutrition choices. 3:38 But when you don't sleep well, you're more irritated. 3:40 You're rushed, you're stressed, 3:42 you're not thinking about getting uncomfortable through exercise, 3:46 or you know, 3:47 you're looking for some sort of stress relief from the food you're eating. 3:51 So that's typically going to be 3:52 more of your comfort foods, maybe more caffeine, things like that. 3:56 And so when it comes to health, a lot of it is is really the momentum cycle, right. 4:01 One good habit leads. 4:03 It makes it easier to follow another good habit and vice versa, right? 4:06 One negative habit can oftentimes lead us down a cycle of more negative habits. 4:11 And so what are some of the root like what's what 4:14 kind of what's the underlying psychology with this. 4:17 Well you know the easiest thing is always the easiest thing. 4:21 So especially when we're tired we are going to go the easiest route. 4:26 We don't have. 4:28 Our brain isn't operating at full force. 4:31 And I'll talk about this more as the talk goes on. 4:33 But so we rely, we go back to what's easy. 4:36 What's easy? 4:38 Convenience food, things that I'm used to. 4:41 And then, of course, that, as you said, goes into the cycle of, 4:45 well, I'm not getting results or I'm disappointed in myself, 4:49 which then leads to more of the things I don't want. 4:52 So some sometimes people will say, well, what's, 4:55 you know, what's the best thing to do for self-sabotage? 4:59 And just kind of like you said, I say get a good night's sleep. 5:02 Yeah. 5:03 Because it's it's really hard to engage 5:07 your, your higher brain when you're tired. 5:12 I mean, there's, there's no doubt that's like a big trigger for me. 5:15 Like I'm a really disciplined person. 5:17 I like structure you. 5:19 Most people would look at me and be like, oh man, he lives a perfect lifestyle. 5:22 But, you know, there as a business owner, as a former 5:25 athlete, like, I'm really driven to win in a sense. 5:29 Right. 5:29 And there's times like in my business where like, maybe I do a I make a video 5:33 and I don't feel like I did my best where I feel like I did not win there. 5:37 And I get frustrated with myself. 5:40 And, you know, the biggest thing for me is it's a reminder. 5:44 I'm I'm probably a little bit tired. 5:46 I need I need a good night's sleep. 5:47 Like I need to really focus on a good night's sleep, 5:49 get out of this negative cycle. 5:50 Yeah, well, I'll tell you that everybody, including my husband, laughs 5:54 at me because I'm in bed by 8:00. 5:57 Good for you know, but he. 5:59 Nobody screws in my sleep. 6:01 Anybody who knows me knows not to call after seven. 6:04 So. Yeah. 6:05 And and and like I said, you know, what happens is 6:08 we also are so harsh on ourselves sometimes when we don't do our best, 6:14 that that can also be self-defeating because then we get down on ourselves, 6:20 our energy lowers, our brain immediately goes to 6:24 when this gets to the rewiring idea, goes to what's wrong? 6:28 What's negative, why? 6:30 Well, biologically evolutionary wise, what's wrong will kill you. 6:35 What's right? We're not. 6:37 So we're kind of preprogramed to look for 6:40 what's going to kill me, what's wrong here? 6:42 And so we get caught up in looking at 6:46 what's wrong, looking at our failures, and then that just drives 6:53 the negative versus 6:55 focusing on what almost like power steering. 6:58 You got to force yourself to look at okay, what what well what's right. 7:03 What am I doing. Well. 7:05 And that just makes everything work better. 7:09 Our energy is better. 7:11 Our our psychology is better. 7:14 We need to focus on, on or not 7:17 ignore what needs to change but not be, you know, 7:21 just focused on, oh, I screwed up again. 7:25 Yeah. 7:26 It's a part of our brain, our reticular activating system in our brain stem. 7:30 And it's designed to help keep us alive. Like you mentioned. 7:32 Like, you know, for for our ancestors, they're stressors. 7:36 We're in, you know, doing poorly on a making a video or something like that. 7:40 But it's like they're, they're stressors. 7:43 Where am I going to get killed by, you know, this wild animal, right? 7:46 Or am I going to get ostracized from my tribe and from my clan 7:49 from for the activities and I'm doing or whatever it is. 7:52 And so, so we're wired to perceive things that could be a threat,
Sleep, Stress, and Momentum Cycles 7:57 is what you're saying. 7:58 That's stress over, you know, basically survival over thriving in a sense. 8:03 Exactly. 8:04 And then what I like, unfortunately, separates us from the animals is after 8:09 that threat is gone, you know, the zebras 8:12 don't sit around the water cooler going, 8:15 I really should have done a better job of that. 8:18 Oh, yeah. 8:19 You're referring to the great book Why Zebras don't get ulcers, right? 8:22 Exactly. Ulcers. 8:24 There's a stress component behind people getting ulcers. 8:27 Oh, absolutely. 8:28 Absolutely. Yeah. 8:29 And we do that and we get caught up in that. 8:32 And that again just leads to things. 8:36 Where you out? 8:37 I know for me, stay focused on what I didn't do. 8:40 Well, it just it just limits me even more. 8:44 I don't take new risks. 8:47 I, I literally almost shut down. 8:49 And so it's so important, I think, to have to focus on the wins 8:55 and to have the support, you know, the reminders to, to shift our focus. 9:02 Yeah. 9:03 That's so good. 9:04 And I know that adverse childhood experiences, these aces, adverse 9:09 childhood experiences, can play a big role in self-sabotaging behaviors. 9:14 And people that have a higher amount 9:15 of adverse childhood experiences tend to have more self-sabotaging behaviors. 9:20 Can you touch on that a little bit? 9:21 Sure. Well, trauma and and we have to. 9:25 First let me say that we have to also remember that 9:29 looking back, we may look at things like, oh, 9:32 my mom forgot to pick me up at daycare when I was four with our adult brain. 9:38 Doesn't sound like trauma, so we don't take it into 9:43 into consideration the effect it's had. 9:45 But to a four year old, getting left to daycare is trauma 9:50 and and those things stick with us 9:54 and they limit our options. 9:56 They they change how we see the world, how self-protective we are. 10:01 Which again goes to kind of the root of self-sabotage, which is keep me safe. 10:08 I don't want 10:09 even if I want, you know, to eat better and new foods 10:13 and lose weight or, you know, deal with my stress differently. 10:18 All of that is new is change. 10:21 And change is even if it's change we want 10:25 can be stressful 10:27 and we can avoid it because it's the unknown. 10:32 Yeah, you're absolutely right. 10:33 Any sort of lifestyle change, it could seem simple on paper. 10:37 Yeah. 10:38 Like the idea of okay, yeah, I need to start walking 10,000 steps a day. 10:41 But if you're not used to doing that, just that alone. 10:44 Just making a habit out of that is a it's a mild form of stress. 10:48 But if you're overwhelmed by stress already, that mild form of 10:52 stress can seem like a really like like just a huge load of stress. 10:57 Yeah. 10:57 And I think it's so let me know if I start to get like too far afield. 11:02 But I think the mistake sometimes we make 11:06 also is not to have the support 11:09 in place to help us sustain 11:12 those changes, which don't seem like a lot, but 11:16 life starts to happen and what goes out the window first, sadly, 11:20 are the foundations for things that support us the most, 11:23 because often there aren't immediate negative consequences. 11:28 And so as humans, we focus on what is immediate and we let go. 11:34 And sometimes that letting go means self-care. 11:38 True positive change goes out the window 11:41 without the, you know, a support group or the environment 11:45 that makes it easy to do that 11:49 or, you know, other systems. 11:51 So it's not just habits. 11:52 It's almost like a systems and environment that will support that change. 11:58 What do we know makes change successful? 12:01 Accountability is is a big one. 12:04 Accountability and support are two of the biggest factors 12:08 that lead to lasting change. 12:12 Yeah, there's no doubt. 12:13 That's like for example, if somebody is addicted to a drug. 12:16 Oh yeah. Right. 12:17 Or even like an alcoholic, an alcoholic going to a rehab center. 12:21 Right. 12:22 They have accountability and support there. Right? 12:24 You know, they get create 12:25 that foundation where there's abstinence from whatever they're addicted to. 12:30 And then there's accountability and and support and not letting the setback. 12:35 So psychologically there are stages of change. 12:38 You know we we change. 12:40 We maintain the change. 12:43 Then we relapse is also, you know, part of the natural cycle sometimes. 12:48 And to to know that and to just go, oh, you know I haven't failed. 12:54 This is the stage I'm in. 12:56 I can get back on track 12:59 really quickly versus,
Trauma, Shame, and Support Systems 13:03 you know, I screwed up. 13:04 Why bother? 13:05 Or, you know, a month of being, 13:08 you know, sedate when you know, you should be moving because, I failed. 13:11 Why bother? It gets discouraging. Yeah. No. 13:15 And that brings us to, like, shame and guilt. 13:16 Because a lot of people, you know, a lot of people's psychology 13:20 is kind of warped, where when they do make mistakes, right? 13:24 Or they relapse or do something that they didn't want to do, right. 13:29 There's certain certain personality types will just be like, you know what? 13:33 They just kind of take it as feedback. 13:34 You know, I did that. 13:35 I don't know why I did that didn't really help me. 13:37 Yeah, I'm not going to do that anymore. 13:39 Whereas other people 13:40 it's like this extreme shame and guilt that they that they go through 13:44 and that's personality that also is related to, you know, 13:48 childhood adverse events, what kind of support they have. 13:53 But you're absolutely right. 13:54 And then that that sense of fear and shame will stop you. 13:58 Guilt can sometimes motivate you. 14:00 There are some positive pieces, but shame will shut you down. 14:05 Yeah, no doubt about it. 14:07 And so what? So what are the things we need? 14:09 We talked about support and community accountability. 14:12 We talked about that. How important that is. 14:15 I mean, in my head, like any sort of self-sabotage, 14:18 the first step is just in a sense, it's just awareness, right? 14:22 I would I would imagine that's kind of the first step, but what what are the steps 14:25 and strategies that you look at and that you coach people with on this? 14:29 Well, the first thing is to again, awareness 14:33 and to get off the what's wrong with me track, 14:36 get off the shame track, get off the you know I'm broken track. 14:40 Whatever it is. 14:41 And look at okay, this is data and look at patterns. 14:46 What trips me up. 14:48 Look at this is this is just a problem to be solved 14:51 and I know where it comes from. 14:53 So what do I need to put in place? 14:57 What environment? 14:58 What what support groups? 15:00 How do I have? 15:00 What do I have to change to make things easier for me? 15:05 And also to really look at what's my response? 15:09 You know what I talk about because it really gets back again 15:13 to that primitive brain, our survival brain. 15:17 And you know, sometimes it's called your lizard brain. 15:21 But I find that people don't really like, relate to that. 15:25 But if I talk about your toddler brain, 15:28 that two year old brain inside, you know, 15:31 are you throwing a tantrum when things go wrong? 15:33 Are you avoiding? 15:35 Are you, you know, ostrich in the sand? 15:38 So I can use those. 15:41 I have these, I call them archetypes 15:44 of what your toddler is, you know, 15:46 what's the predominant way you self-sabotage 15:51 and and understanding that, first of all, it gets rid of a lot of shame because. 15:56 And we all know what two year olds are like. 15:58 So it's like, okay, this isn't surprising. 16:01 This is just my two year old coming out. 16:03 And how do I deal with my two year old? 16:05 I have a 16:06 four and a half year old that comes out sometimes when I've a, four 16:09 and a half year old daughter that she has, you know, her share of meltdowns. 16:13 Yeah. Yeah. 16:14 And and what makes kids meltdown, being tired or being hungry. 16:19 Yeah. Right. 16:20 So not feeling like they have control sometimes. 16:23 Right. Exactly, exactly. 16:25 And so understanding where it comes from. 16:30 And then for each archetype like if you let's say 16:35 so, one of the archetypes I talk about is kind of the diva temper tantrum. 16:40 Well, sometimes people will then get down on themselves for that. 16:44 But recognizing that that's my go to. 16:47 And if that's my go to, maybe I have to allow myself 16:51 60s of temper tantrums, 16:56 make that okay, and then distract myself by looking at what do I really want? 17:03 What's what's the outcome? I really want here? 17:06 So just, you know, getting that adult brain back online 17:11 and disrupting the 17:12 pattern can really help people. 17:15 Then look at, oh, okay, I had my little temper tantrum. 17:19 I know what this is how this works. 17:22 Now I'm going to get back on on the path. 17:26 And so really it's it's a way to rewire. 17:31 But the way also that I look at it 17:35 is that people sometimes think rewiring is really hard. 17:40 You know, versus, okay, 17:43 and there's some science to back this up 17:46 that well there are the pathways are there. 17:49 They're just underused. 17:52 So that sounds a lot 17:55 simpler like oh I just have to 17:58 you know use this, this road that I, you don't usually go down that my brain 18:03 doesn't really use versus I have to do this complete rehab on my brain. 18:08 And, and sometimes just making it easier for people 18:13 makes them more likely 18:15 to be able to go, okay, I can do this. 18:19 Yeah. That's good. 18:20 Now we're we're talking about rewiring the brain. 18:23 We're talking about 18:24 basically the neurons that that connect and communicate together. 18:28 And we always say, you know, neurons that fire together, wire together. 18:32 So like sometimes certain experiences can trigger 18:36 certain thoughts and behaviors and that can create. 18:41 And the more that we experience that, it becomes like a really like 18:45 a, like a well-worn kind of pathway going through the woods. 18:49 And what we want to do is recondition 18:52 some of these neural pathways to where we get more desired responses. 18:57 Right? More desirable emotions. 18:59 Oh, there's horrible neighbors, right? 19:01 That's what we're we're talking about when we talk about rewire the brain. 19:04 Yeah. So we want to do things differently, 19:07 disrupt those patterns that are almost like 19:12 just self propelling. 19:14 You know, we don't even think about it. 19:15 We just immediately go into old patterns. 19:19 You're right. Like a groove, like a well-worn road. 19:22 It's the easiest thing to do. 19:24 It's familiar is common. 19:26 It's comfortable, even if it's behavior we don't want. 19:29 And that's what really throws people, you know? 19:32 So why am I doing what I don't even want to do? 19:34 Well, because that's the way you're wired yourself. 19:38 And your two year old is running the show right now, 19:42 and we've got to get you out of that. 19:44 So anything that supports doing things
Rewiring the Brain Through Awareness 19:48 differently, making them easier again, 19:51 we go back to accountability and support and 19:56 and learning what works for you. 20:00 You know what? 20:02 We all have had enough experience hopefully that we have some clue about okay, 20:07 what has worked for me in the past, 20:10 what? 20:10 But, you know, gee, I got through school 20:14 even though I don't like, you know, discipline. 20:18 How did I manage that? What worked for me there? 20:20 What skills can I take from there and generalize them to over here? 20:26 What do I need to put in place? 20:28 What again, what has worked for me in 20:31 the past is likely to work again, 20:35 so making it easier for people to to accomplish what seems so hard 20:40 because, you know, there wouldn't be all this talk about how to develop new habits. 20:44 It's easy. 20:46 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 20:48 No, I mean, you have to have a desire to want to do it. 20:51 Yeah. 20:52 So another thing to do is to really get in in touch. 20:56 This is more psychological trick. 20:57 But to really go back to what do I value? 21:02 What are my values? 21:03 Do I value personal growth? 21:04 Do I value, taking care of business? 21:07 Do I value learning? 21:09 Do I value learning being healthy? 21:12 And when we do things that are in 21:17 in opposition to 21:18 what we value, we create what we call cognitive dissonance. 21:22 We're uncomfortable. 21:23 Use that discomfort to your advantage. 21:26 Oh, you know, I say I'm a healthy person. 21:28 I want to be seen as a healthy person. 21:31 But I'm driving through the drive through at McDonald's. 21:35 This doesn't feel good. 21:37 Let me just drive through. 21:39 It's really connecting the dots. 21:42 Yeah. That's good. 21:43 One thing I've talked about in the past is having a 21:46 why that makes you cry, right? 21:49 So I think this can be really helpful too, with creating that cognitive dissonance. 21:54 Dissonance. 21:55 Because if your why is oh, I just want to lose weight, 21:58 that may not be strong enough right now. 22:01 But if your why is I want my kids to look up to me 22:04 and and to be inspired by my life, 22:07 I want them to, you know, see me as a healthy, strong person. 22:11 I want to be there to lift my grandchildren up or, you know, finding 22:15 some sort of why that that really creates a strong emotional response in you 22:21 and motivated that we're motivated by pain. 22:25 So, yeah, sometimes we're more motivated psychologically by pain and pleasure. 22:30 So one trick, 22:33 one strategy is to first ask yourself, 22:37 what's going to happen if I don't change what is 22:41 you know, if I don't get healthier, what's going to happen? 22:44 Am I going to, you know, be in a nursing home at 65 22:48 because I'm obese and can't take care of myself anymore? 22:52 That should scare the out of you. Yeah. 22:55 And true. 22:56 And then start to go, okay, that's really scary. 23:00 I don't want that to happen. 23:02 Here's what I do want to have happen. 23:05 And here's how I can do that. 23:07 And to start where you can start, you know, 23:09 there's some of these are really big goals for people. 23:13 And, and I'm comfortable. 23:16 So, you know, starting where you can start. 23:21 One thing I like to say is, 23:23 you know, your goal may be out of your comfort zone, 23:26 but your first step should be in your comfort zone, so you'll take it. 23:29 Otherwise you're not going to move. 23:32 It's going to be too scary, even if it's something you want. 23:35 So pick something that's doable 23:38 to get that motivation going, to get the momentum going and to see results. 23:42 Nothing is more motivating than seeing results. 23:45 Yeah, no doubt 23:46 they say a journey of a thousand miles begins with a footstep, right? 23:49 Yeah. 23:49 And creating that positive momentum cycle 23:53 with something that's what, you know, a low hanging fruit, right? 23:56 In a sense. 23:58 And people tend to not give themselves credit for what's easy. 24:03 So it's important to remember to, 24:07 to keep in mind that even if it was easy, I get credit for this. 24:12 I can feel good about that. 24:13 This was a win, even though it wasn't hard. 24:16 It doesn't have to be hard to be a big win. 24:22 Yeah. 24:22 You know that's so good. 24:23 That's something that you know my personality type 24:28 I think I and naturally innately do that. 24:30 Like when I get stressed with work or something like that 24:35 sleep and actually just work helps really reduce the stress. 24:40 Like just feeling like I produce something like just 24:43 getting getting something done or right off my to do list 24:47 helps, like relieve some of that stress or anxiety. 24:51 Sure. 24:51 You know, yeah, it's a small win because we're back in control, you know. 24:56 And yeah. 24:56 And that that leads to a sense of safety, a sense of empowerment agency 25:03 which again helps us feel safe 25:05 and leads to more positive behaviors. 25:10 Yeah. That's so good. 25:11 So let's talk about these different archetypes you mentioned. 25:14 You've got this quiz that you're working on with the different Sabbath 25:17 self-sabotaging archetypes. So let's break those down. 25:20 Sure, sure. 25:21 So the first one that I, 25:25 I talk about is the diva, which is, you know, 25:28 I want it my way and I want it now, and I'm going to throw a temper tantrum. 25:35 We've all seen that. 25:36 Oh, yeah. And 25:39 and that can be of course, that just takes us 25:42 out of the game as well. 25:45 And so allowing ourselves 25:48 to, you know, rant a little bit 25:51 and then get back on track can really help. 25:54 What do you do with a kid who's having a temper tantrum? 25:57 Distract them. 25:59 Give them something else to do. 26:01 Remind them of what they really want. 26:05 What's your goal here? 26:08 The other, one of the other toddler archetypes 26:11 I call Eeyore, which is the poor me archetype. 26:15 You know, nothing ever works for me. 26:18 Nothing changes. 26:20 I'm. I'm just destined to be a failure. 26:25 And and so many people can get into that when things don't go right
Values, Motivation, and Small Wins 26:30 or they fall off the wagon to go into that poor me 26:35 stance. 26:36 And again, I say, go ahead, 26:40 you know, do 60s of poor me, get it out of your system 26:45 and then start to look at, 26:48 what do I really want here? 26:51 What what's what have I accomplished in the past? 26:55 And again, you know, getting anything that gets you more into adult mode again. 27:00 And for the, for the era, 27:03 it can be also, reaching out for support so that they don't feel so alone. 27:10 Don't feel like such a loser. 27:12 Don't feel so isolated. 27:16 There's also the ostrich, 27:18 which is if I don't see a problem, it isn't there. 27:22 Avoidance. 27:23 Like, yeah, the human condition. 27:25 So again, recognizing 27:29 that that's what you're doing, 27:31 it's avoidance because it doesn't always look like avoidance. 27:34 You know, I'm cleaning the house instead of going to the gym. 27:37 Oh that's a good thing. Well, maybe it isn't. 27:40 Maybe you're avoiding again the change. 27:43 So first again recognition. 27:47 And second 27:49 taking that small first step that's doable 27:53 so that, you know, if you're 27:56 too scared to go to your doctor's appointment, 27:58 you know, remembering that 28:01 getting back to your why I want to be healthy, 28:05 I want to know what I should be doing. 28:08 So let me, you know, let me get support here again, 28:13 another common theme that I see 28:16 is what I call the Tasmanian devil. 28:19 Like, let's just create a lot of chaos and drama, 28:23 and I won't have to look at what I really need to look at. 28:29 And, you know, we 28:31 we stir up ourselves, we stir up everybody around us. 28:35 This is very, 28:36 you know, well, I, I can't go to the gym because my dog is throwing up and, 28:42 you know, or my 28:43 foot hurts or whatever it is, let's just create a lot of drama 28:49 and distraction. 28:51 And again, knowing that is the first step, recognizing that that's my go to 28:56 is creating love, because it doesn't look like drama at the start. 29:01 It looks real. 29:02 It looks like, oh, everybody's upset, you know, sort of chicken, little fish. 29:07 The sky is falling. 29:09 So again, to recognize that 29:12 and to step back from it, 29:15 you know, get a little objective start to ask questions. 29:19 What what am I upset about? 29:23 What's really going on here 29:25 is, you know, just a great first question is, you know, 29:30 is that true? 29:31 Is that am I really as upset? 29:34 Is it really as bad as I think it is? 29:37 And what actually am I not looking at? 29:40 Again, that sort of avoidance comes in. 29:42 So these are all ways that we react to, 29:49 get out of having to change, 29:53 you know. Yeah. 29:54 And, and the other archetype and I think this is cultural, actually, 29:59 everybody wants to be the rebel, but the rebel is actually almost the hardest 30:05 archetype to deal with because they don't 30:09 want to be told what to do, 30:12 even if it's themselves 30:15 telling them what to do. 30:18 And so it can be really tricky 30:21 to almost the hardest one to deal with is, is the rebel. 30:26 And one of the things the rebel has to do is 30:32 go back to, well, what are my choices here? 30:36 I could do this. 30:37 I could do this. 30:38 You know, I could, you know, go to the gym. 30:41 I could sit and watch TV. 30:44 I could eat pizza. 30:45 What do I really want to do? 30:48 And and get that sense of control back, 30:52 get that sense of agency back. 30:55 And again, the disruption serves to just asking 30:59 those questions serves to get us out of toddler mode, 31:03 get us out of that primitive brain that is just reacting 31:08 to a threat. 31:11 Yeah. 31:12 And yeah that's so good. 31:13 So so so that was that all of the yeah. 31:16 So they're five. 31:18 So there five. 31:19 So you said there is the diva. 31:21 The diva your you're your ostrich. 31:25 The ostrich. Yep. 31:27 Tasmanian devil and the rebel and the rebel okay. 31:31 There we go. 31:32 And people can find a quiz right there that ask them questions. 31:35 And they can help identify which one they are. 31:38 If they if they haven't already kind of 31:39 figure it out in their head as you went through it. 31:41 Well, here's the interesting thing that I have found doing this 31:44 for many years is that it's there's an obvious toddler. 31:50 I'll give you myself as an example. 31:52 For the longest time I thought I was an Eeyore.
Toddler Archetypes of Self-Sabotage 31:57 I thought my go to was just, oh, the poor me. 32:00 That was the toddler I recognized. 32:04 The toddler you 32:05 don't recognize, which for me was the ostrich 32:10 was what was getting me in trouble. 32:12 It was what I wasn't looking at, what I was really avoiding. 32:15 Where was I? 32:16 Bury my head in the sand that was causing me to not reach my goals. 32:22 Yeah. That's good. 32:24 Yeah. 32:24 I'm a I believe I'm a fellow ostrich. 32:28 And we, of course, all have a little bit of everything, 32:31 but it's the one that is causing the most problem. 32:34 And it's always the one. 32:35 Like, we don't immediately recognize the one we know. 32:39 We kind of know. 32:41 It's the one that's driving the car or driving the. 32:45 The behavior that we don't see that is, is what's derailing us. 32:51 Yeah, that's really good to know. 32:52 So once you recognize this, you go I guess they could find that at your website. 32:57 And you get this quiz. Right. 32:59 Then how do you kind of walk them through what they need to do to help 33:04 kind of reduce the effects of this, this archetype 33:07 and, and improve their, their ability to accomplish their goals. 33:10 Right. 33:11 So I have a little training video for each archetype 33:14 that takes you through just some simple steps to to get 33:21 back into adult mode to comfort. 33:23 And it's not about punishing the toddler, it's recognizing the toddler. 33:27 It's providing good, 33:30 good comfort that supports you 33:35 and and getting out of the shame of the behavior 33:39 and and the steps that, for each toddler, 33:42 help us get back on track. 33:45 And and does it really look different for each of those toddlers? 33:49 Well, 33:50 in in theory, it's all the same. 33:54 In practice, it's different. 33:56 But they say in theory, theory 33:57 and practice are the same in practice, not so there are different tricks, 34:01 you know, just like for any it's very, very common just for any toddler. 34:07 You know, depending on what they're doing, 34:09 you might have a slightly different strategy, 34:11 but it always involves getting out of toddler mode. 34:15 Yeah. 34:16 Getting our brain back online. 34:20 Yeah. 34:21 And probably the way that you communicate, like I have four children 34:25 and sometimes the way that I communicate, or at least 34:28 the most effective way to communicate with each of them, is different. 34:31 I would say I always communicate like that, 34:33 but the most effective way can be different for each of them 34:37 because they have their own unique personality. Exactly. 34:40 And then we learn to work with our toddler. 34:42 You know what? 34:43 What helps what gets me out of this? 34:46 But just I think also just the idea that I'm not crazy, 34:51 I've just let my two inner two year old run the show for a while. 34:55 Get gets get you out of that shame 34:59 which paralyzes me, paralyzes pretty much everybody, 35:03 and and gets you moving back in the right direction towards the health goals. 35:07 And and it's stressful when you start beating yourself up. 35:14 It not only keeps you from getting your 35:17 to your goal, it creates a whole other 35:21 cascade of symptoms 35:24 of pain. 35:25 You know, physical pain, emotional pain, disappointment. 35:29 Disappointment is huge for kids. 35:33 They avoid disappointment like the plague, 35:38 and that carries over 35:41 into our adulthood. 35:43 And we need to recognize that. 35:46 Yeah. For sure. 35:47 Well, you know, this has been a great interview 35:49 because again, I could give all the all the best natural health strategies, 35:53 but if somebody has internal wiring in their brain 35:58 is, you know, as they're taking in the content 36:01 that I'm creating and all the strategies I'm telling them, 36:04 if they're seeing that as, wow, that's really stressful or, 36:08 you know, if they're in a sense, going back 36:10 to self-sabotaging behaviors as they try this, they're not going to be successful. 36:14 And so you really have to unlock that first. 36:17 Yeah. 36:17 And, and and to be able to get into maintenance because, you know, 36:21 motivation or that initial excitement will only take you so far. 36:26 I see this and you know, all my friends, clients, everybody, you know, 36:30 we're great at the start and then we start to lose momentum or something goes wrong 36:37 or we start to sense the danger because this is new. 36:41 And who will I be if I become this healthy person? 36:45 And so we start the self-sabotage cycle. 36:50 So it's so important to recognize that, 36:53 you know, those stages of change. You know, 36:57 unnatural. 36:59 And we just need to it's not whether we'll fall off the wagon. 37:02 It's just how quickly can we get back on. 37:05 Yeah. 37:05 What can we put in place that will, you know, 37:09 get us back into the healthy lifestyle, make it simple. 37:12 And sometimes it's just simple. 37:14 You know, strategies like having, preparing, you know, batch cooking 37:20 and having good meals in the freezer for when you don't get off work till 8:00. 37:25 Yeah, exactly. 37:26 Or simple things, even simpler things like going to bed 37:29 early today, like drinking a glass of water. 37:33 Right. Yeah. And start breathing in sugar. 37:36 Just go and drink a glass of water instead. 37:38 Like that alone will fill your stomach, your release. 37:41 Ghrelin, which is, you know, block. 37:42 You'll inhibit ghrelin release, which is your hunger hormone. 37:45 You'll have less cravings. 37:46 So just something simple like that. 37:48 Sometimes going out for a walk, 37:50 getting out in fresh air, getting in the sun, stretching or creating 37:54 stretching can create a positive momentum cycle that will make the next
Practical Tools for Lasting Change 38:00 healthy, healthy practice easier. 38:03 Oh, yeah. And we want to. 38:04 Like I said, we want it to be easy. 38:06 We want to be able to to maintain. 38:08 So another simple strategy is and this works 38:12 in, you know, going back to like addiction and change. 38:15 Keep some keep it on your radar, you know, keep a a picture 38:20 on your refrigerator of, you know, 38:24 when you when you felt at your best. 38:27 And remember that we need these cues to constantly 38:30 remember that, oh, this is what I'm going for. 38:35 Yeah, exactly. 38:36 And you can link like you were talking about linking pain to the bad behaviors 38:41 and linking positive 38:44 emotions and inspiration to positive behaviors. 38:47 Yeah. 38:47 Looking at what we don't want, 38:50 that pain will drive us 38:54 more initially than, oh, I just want to be healthy. 38:59 Well, yeah, that sounds great. 39:00 But what's going to happen when you, you know, 39:02 can't take care of not captivating us? 39:04 Yeah, yeah. Needs to be captivating. 39:06 Needs to scare us or. 39:07 Yeah, really give a positive like a strong positive emotion to us. 39:13 Absolutely. Yeah. So that's so important. 39:16 Well, doctor Audrey Schnell, this has been a wonderful interview. 39:19 Again, people can find more information at audreyschnell.com. 39:22 That's schnellL.com. 39:26 They can find that, self-sabotage archetype quiz there at the website. 39:31 And this has been really enlightening, guys. 39:33 You can really rewire your brain and break free from the pattern of self-sabotage. 39:37 Any last words here for our audience, doctor Audrey? 39:41 I will just go back to what we almost started talking about, 39:44 which was get the get a foundation in place, which means sleep, 39:49 be at your best, and don't go down the road 39:53 of beating yourself up when things don't go as planned. 40:00 Yeah. 40:00 That's good. 40:01 Yeah. Give yourself grace. 40:02 Right. That's key. 40:04 Key. And a lot of gold stars, even for simple stuff. 40:08 Yeah. So true. 40:09 Well, this has been great again, guys, check out the website. 40:12 audreyschnell.com for doctor Audrey Schnell and her archetype quiz. 40:17 So check that out and we'll see you guys in a future interview. 40:20 Be blessed everybody.
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