Lessons from Sleep Experts

Show Intro and Sponsor Messages 0:00

Welcome, everyone, once again, to another episode of Sleep Tech Talk, the sleep podcast with your host and friends, Emerson Kerr, Robert Miller, and me, Dr. Gerald George Moneykerode. Folks, it's a special episode today. And that special is because it is with your three hosts talking about what's been happening over the past few months. I think it was a nice time for a check-in. But before we get started, I just want to say a huge thanks to each and every one of you for joining us. every episode.

We can't thank you enough for that. But what we have seen is just a fraction of you who are watching the episodes are actually subscribing. So don't forget to share. Don't forgot to like. And don' forget subscribe. we sincerely appreciate all the views. Just keep it going. Get the word out there. It really helps to get the message out to the sleep curious, the Sleep professionals and sleep everybody. So let's get that started. And a huge thanks to our sponsors. A huge shout out to them, without whom we can't do this.

Be sure to check them out. We've added a couple of new sponsors recently. Just to bring everyone's attention to Phillips and Solace that have joined the sponsorship family. Amen. It's a big, huge, thanks. Like I said, we just can do without them. Thanks for that, Robert. Treating my sleep apnea has renewed my appetite for life. What matters to me now is giving my family a little treat. Sleep Tech Talk is brought to you by Fisher & Paykel. Fisher and Paykel Healthcare is a leader in CPAP mass design and innovation for over 20 years.

Their unique technologies have benefited millions of OSA patients through their top CPAP masks. These advancements continue to further enhance patient experience and outcomes. Solish is redefining how sleep apnea risk is identified. Using a simple selfie-style face scan, our AI delivers a sleep risk score in under a minute. The Solush platform then connects providers to evaluation, testing, and therapy through one seamless pathway.

Better Night and Bretton Lane Recap 2:34

Because every patient deserves expert guidance, wherever they are. Choose Solesh. One selfie. Better sleep. Robert since we're talking. Hey. Let's get started. All right, let's jump in. Yeah, a little bit of a recap, kind of going in backwards chronological order, whatever the appropriate terminology is. On one of our most recent episodes, we had Bretton Lane from Better Night. And it was really interesting to, and her story I think is very similar to ours, where you just sort of by happenstance, jump into the world of sleep medicine and not only turn it into a career, but turn into something where you've helped to build a significant player in the sleep diagnostic, sleep therapy marketplace.

And even from a clinical perspective, I would say setting some new standards in some cases as it relates to patient care, especially from telehealth perspective. You're right. When you look at companies like Breton's, it's really extraordinary how they've survived the evolutions of what's happened in sleep. There's so many companies that started like hers and faltered, especially in California. You look what she's done, she stayed diversified, but then stayed in her lane. I think that speaks volumes for how important that is to really focus on what you do well, do it great, And she's done that with her team.

And I think that's an important part of the story is, is not just her, but having just an incredible number of people on our team that can rise to how these changes. I mean, so many, you know, not, just Cal, being in California, surviving COVID as a standalone company. So many of those things are incredible, that it really speaks to what this industry is about. Sleep patients aren't going away. But the being adaptable like she's been and how better nights been is just incredible. And it's so fun to hear a story.

It's inspiring for especially those who are looking for careers and opportunities and just to be inspired in sleep. Huge shout out to her and her team for what they've accomplished. I think it's really cool now, like you said, being able to adapt and being to pivot. I thought it was so cool. Her story, she got her degree, didn't know what to do, and decided to go snowboarding and then kind of stumbled into this. And like, you say, Robert, this somehow moved into the direction like we did with the podcast.

But I thing the bigger story here is that she found this industry of sleep health, sleep medicine, and sleep wellness and did something about it. Got into it, learned about, it got prudentialed and built a business. And that's a huge, huge lesson, I think for everybody that that out there looking for something to do or looking an industry to get in a true healthcare industry where you can make an impact. Like I love to say literally overnight for people, right? And it's For me, that's what I found very interesting about her story.

But, you know, we did talk a little bit about Bretton, but what else did you see in Better Night? Well, I think that ultimately it's all about change and diversification. I know that one of the interesting things is that they're not a company that is completely solely focused on diagnosing patients and then getting them to CPAP therapy. There's also a dental component to their business, which is I bodes well for patients who go through their program and as sleep therapies continue to evolve, I think that they seem to be poised to make the transition.

And speaking of transitions, let's talk about the episode prior to Breton's. Jerry, I'll let you sort of tee that one up for us. That was Dr. Musama who came on board and talked about GLP-1s and he's probably as up to date on everything going on in the industry as anyone else. You know, thanks, Robert. Dr. Osama is really interesting. And for those of you out there who didn't catch that episode, shame on you. But in case you didn, it's Dr Muhammad Osamah, and he's based out of Seattle.

GLP-1s, Obesity, and Holistic Sleep Care 7:22

The interesting thing about him is he's an obesity physician. He's also a sleep physician, board certified, he is triple board-certified. And he has this unique approach to providing care for patients on how he can take care of them, whether they're sleep issues or obesity, or if it's a combination of the two, that overlap syndrome, so to speak. Then what I really, really found interesting was his depth of knowledge on how to approach the patient. I mean, his depth of knowledge and his total understanding of how do we provide care for these patients, how we give them the right treatment, and also how did we take it forward?

How do progress? It's not just dropping the weight and then we're done, or it's just, okay, I've splinted the airway open and now the patients can breathe at night. No, it is not that. He's looking at the complete picture of the And for me, that was very satisfying to hear a physician speak so passionately about providing that holistic approach to the patient, specifically in this category. I think it's interesting to me too, the fact that he is so up to date on multiple fronts, as it relates to technology, technology for diagnostics, all of the different sort of, periodically we talk about endotyping and phenotypng, and I certainly think he's what's best for the patient type of provider, but I think it's also interesting too that with his love of understanding the industry and the changes in the industries, he's been able to bridge a bit of a gap between the dental sleep world and traditional medical side of sleep as well.

You're right, I think he brings, like you're saying, a holistic approach to it. And I thing it's about, you know, he really called out system efficiency, being able to manage that traffic and integrating all aspects of care into it, and it was really refreshing to hear him talk about that full breadth of because we see that in a few people that we talk to, but I think some of the other things is just having smarter screening, being able to identify the right patient, like you're saying on the phenotyping, that's an incredible approach to it.

But then it's really, how do you integrate technology into that? How do leverage tech to make it work for you as a clinician, to work with the patient? And I just I love that holistic story he tells you know that really I think captures the essence of what he doesn't sleep medicine. Thanks emerson now if we're talking about that what about the patient's perspective what do you think. About that we had a. patient on our show, didn't we? That's right, we did. We had Lindsay McFarland. And Lindsay, the Sleep BFF, my goodness, what an enormous amount of energy.

You know, just, you know when you look at her following, You can really tell why she does, she reminds us so much of Emma. I think what it is, is people love authenticity. And you can't get more authentic than the Lindsay and Emma and people like that that are living the experience of being a sleep patient. But what elevates Lindsay to another level is the fact that she's so asleep. So she's really on two sides of the equation, like many of us, including me. And I know you, Robert, is that when you're a patient in sleep and then you have to sell sleep along with it, it really changes how you get it because there's this multi-dimensional approach to how do you think about sleep?

Because every day that we put on a mask or put in an oral appliance or whatever it is, that were doing to manage your sleep apnea, we're living the very thing we have to sell and have the market. And it really changes the dialogue about it. It was so much fun to see that. So exciting to where she's going with both her resume career and her podcast. You know, it's interesting, Emerson, to see the transition for her. She went from sort of a clinical resource, I think, in a particular market for RestMed to, you know I, think now has moved out of Canada down to California

Patient Perspective and Sleep Advocacy 11:48

and is part of the marketing team at Restmed. And they just launched something recently. I don't know if you guys have seen it, the CPAP baddies. So they, Yeah, they're engaging with with different patients and sort of telling the stories and maybe even maybe not. Maybe they are not patients, but they certainly are folks who are in the industry and promoting, you know, CPAP is something as a positive. And I think it's a great, interesting campaign and just can't wait to see what else Lindsey is able to do.

You know, Robert, you said about positives. OK. And I think this is a nice little segue into our next guest that we we had, which was Dr. Ami Bhatt. and I know during the show you had a lot to say, but I. Think we. Had a. Lot to discuss, especially you, robert, about Dr Bhat and and her impact on that. Would you care to talk a little bit about that for us? You know, I have to admit that I was completely surprised about Dr. Bott's knowledge of the sleep apnea space and her understanding of how, in her position, that she could help to leverage AI and the industry to treat more patients.

So, you know certainly a bit more of a population health approach, if you would, at looking at at patient groups and outcomes. It was a really interesting discussion with her and she was fantastic guest. You know, I think the thing that left out to me is to your point, her calling out sleep particularly was really a pleasant surprise. But a few things that I noted was that, you know she said that she emphasized that sleep is not a lifestyle luxury, but a core physiologic pillar of heart health. I mean, that's an incredible statement that it should be treated as a vital sign.

And even though we talk about things like that, maybe not using that exact terminology, it's so refreshing to hear a leading cardiologist with American College of Cardiology call this out. Because over our careers, we've talked about how to bridge sleep and cardiology is sort of this This bridge that we've all sought and so few have been able to really be successful at it because cardiology tends to look at sleep as important. But, you know, it's not something that tends to be number one on their radar when it comes to assessing the patient and to hear someone like that, that is such an esteemed leader in cardiology was so incredible because you think about, the role of wearables and when she went into that.

I've seen that in my own personal life with some family where the wearable turned into a bridge to managing sleep apnea because it identified the AFib, but then led to a sleep study that got this family member on CPAP. So hearing that from her and having an experience in life of your important family was just incredible to hear. And I'd love to have her back sometime because what a beautiful insight into how you know, sleep and cardiology can be in sync together. You know I don't know if she's connected to some of the thought leaders on the sleep side, but I sure would love to connect her to those folks.

Because I think she could help bring the resources and the power behind her position to help drive some the initiatives that are important to our sleep leaders. Well, you know, it's funny to say that the sleep research society reposted our podcast as a webinar to listen to. And so huge shout out to Christine and sleep, research, society for highlighting us and seeing how important this conversation was to our industry. Treating my sleep apnea has renewed my appetite for life. What matters to me now is giving my family a little treat.

A sound sleep calls for a high performing mask. Introducing F&P Nova Nasal with SwingFit Headgear. From fitting and seal to minimal noise and draft, it's performance defined. Go to fphcare.com forward slash nova nasal to learn more. Solish is redefining how sleep apnea risk is identified. Using a simple selfie-style face scan, our AI delivers a sleep risk score in under a minute. The Solush platform then connects providers to evaluation, testing, and therapy through one seamless pathway. Because every patient deserves expert guidance, wherever they are.

Choose Solesh.

Sleep Conferences and Upcoming Events 16:48

One selfie. Better sleep. Well, let's take a slight deviation from sleep and heart health and sleep, and behavioral health. We had a special guest on a PhD doctor, Dr. Janet Kennedy, based out of New York. What were your thoughts, gentlemen, about that episode? I got to leave it to you guys. I was AWOL for that one. And I set that guest up for the show, and then couldn't make it the recording. So I'll have to lean on you two guys for content. But I listened to it. It was a great episode. You guys did a good job.

What was your takeaway after listening to getting to hear us be a three-legged chair without our third leg? What did you think? You know, I think ultimately I love being able to hear, you know these different opinions about patient care and different perspectives on what works and what doesn't work. And, so that was probably my biggest takeaway from the episode. You know, I think a couple of things that she called out, just looking back through my notes, is she really calls out sleep anxiety, you know?

And I that's an interesting thing to discuss because you think about all the tools that are out there with CBTI and some of these digital tools, that're coming for that and all of the steps you've got to take. I thinks that such an important journey for someone. And the fact that, she's calling that out. that she referred to as orthosomnia, and that's that obsession with getting it perfect. And I think that's sort of the crazy thing. Yeah, we've talked about that with other guests, leaders like Michael Bruce and others where they fixate on their their wearable and they want to have this perfect sleep.

And it creates this this paradox because then the day it's really how do you feel? I mean, if you sleep five hours and you fell great, you know, your not you're not a failure. If you slip eight hours in, feel terrible. There's a problem. And so I think it's that balance. And I love how she kind of brings it all back together of what the patient should be thinking about and how we can deescalate and work them through cognitive reframing that puts them in a better place in their sleep. Emerson, I would agree with you there.

It brought a different perspective. I mean, yes, Dr. Bruce and others have spoken a little bit about that, but this, in my opinion, it brought it different as a perspective where with the rise of these wearables, how that can actually negatively impact your sleep, because this goes with almost anything. If you have too much data, what do you do with it, right? You end up hearing that paralysis due to analysis kind of thing. But we've spent quite a bit of time talking about guests. Are you guys ready for a little gear shift?

What you got? Isn't there a conference coming up soon? Yeah, absolutely. A little one. Sleep 2026 in Baltimore. Yeah. What's going on over there? I'm hearing a little bit of buzz about that. I know I am excited about it. It is the end of my AST presidency. So we only have a few more weeks of that left. It's been such an incredible honor to get to serve in that role and bring the AST and ASM back together and see the annual membership meeting returned last year. So a lot of positive things over these last two and a half years, but A great lineup, you know, the team is Lisa Indy and Sarah Bernica have put together a great line up of speakers on the AST side.

And one of the things that some people might enjoy on Sunday, June 14th is a workshop where the Team is going to be really highlighting some of You know, the modern approaches to scoring and titration. It'll have Matt Anastasi, Lisa Indy, Marie Fordyce, and Russell Rozinski leading that for the morning on Sunday. So for any of the techs that want to get an update from some of best minds and sleep technology, that's going to happen. We've got the membership meeting right after that. And then we head right into the agenda that will take us through the rest of the week.

But a great lineup on the AST side with SleepTex. Then if you go over to the sleep medicine side, oh my gosh, what an incredible agenda. So many of default leaders are going to be presenting, but it's going be a meeting. It's fun to back in Baltimore. Inner Harbor is always a fun place to Yeah, if you're there, you know, we'd love to connect. I think all three of us would love connect with as many as possible while we're here because it's definitely a fun place to be and there's nothing better than being around our friends and colleagues for a week.

You know, we are co-hosting their, I haven't seen the details yet, but they're supposed to be another influencer or a social media personality sleep event this year. And Sleep Tech Talk is a cohost for that. I need to get some updates so we can know how to talk about that and when to expect that, and put it into our schedules. But yeah, it's gonna be a fantastic conference. It's been amazing, I think, the last couple of years at the attendance and just the engagement that is going on in the industry at these sleep conferences.

And we've been to Baltimore a few times now with the National Sleep Meeting, so looking forward to it and can't wait to see you guys in person. I would agree with both of you. There's been a lot of excitement. I think it's a great time in the industry. It's like a new wave that's taking place. And there's so much buzz, so many activity over the past couple of years. So it is going to be great. We'd love to see each and every one of your come over. If you see us, stop by, say hello. Would love just to make the acquaintance if we haven't met you already.

Be sure to check out our clinical sponsor, Sleep Review Magazine. More details in show notes. And what else is going on in terms of conferences? A little bit later this year, the three of us are the keynote speakers on the first day at Current Concepts. Keynote? What does that mean? Well, that's what they have the side of our names and our presentation. I know that I'm doing a second presentation on day two. Emerson, did I see you're speaking also? I am. We're both speaking. So yeah, we've got a good representation there.

That's a really good conference. It's an interesting one in that it's different from anything that's done in the country, because all of the hospitals in Tampa's St. Pete area participate in this meeting. And they actually rotate the chairmanship of of meeting every year. Tampa General, BayCare, All of those, they take turns leading it. So there's always great involvement. There's a physician side, there is a tech side. You know, it's been such an incredible meeting to be a part of. I think I went to my first one there in the early 2000s and it is always well attended, usually on the beach like it was this year.

You can't beat that. And, you know, as one more beach trip before it gets cold. So, no, I highly recommend it. It's always a great meeting that they put on them. In this year, Tampa General's hosting it and Robbie Beauchamp and team are, he can beat them there. They're all great. Hey, this is my first time going to this particular meeting. I've not been before. I was going to say it'd be similar for me as well. It's going be your first time. And if you two are speaking, maybe I need to throw my name in the hat and get a topic in.

But maybe, I talk too much. So, I think that occurs in August, if I remember correctly, and then in October we have the three of us again together at the Carolina Sleep Society. Although not doing a single session with all three us, we are each one going to bring our own topics to the discussion and that should be a lot of fun. It's always a great meeting as well. You're right, it's what you guys have done and you and the different ones that have led that.

Mainstream Sleep Apnea Awareness and Closing Remarks 25:48

It's another one, especially being, you know, when you look at the one in Florida, It has got two physician antics. But when look what what have you done with the Carolina one to sustain the volumes of attendees, as a tech meeting is incredible, especially when you know how many state tech associations have faltered and actually are no longer with us. It's incredible. You guys always put on a great meeting, great location there on the ocean. Another fantastic meeting. For those that can't get to Florida, going to Myrtle Beach is absolutely worth every dollar to get there.

Absolutely. Looking forward to that. But yeah, I think this has been a fun episode. Any closing thoughts, gentlemen? You know, we were talking a little bit before the podcast that while there's so much that's new, there is not anything really specific that stands out to me right this minute. But I think if I could say one thing that has been sort of fun is that it's good to see Shaq back on TV talking about sleep apnea again. You guys have seen the GLP one ads for Lily. Oh yeah, yeah. Sleep apnea, but you know he's back in the game.

You know, since you're bringing that up, I'd like to say it's great to see sleep apnea in the mainstream now. You see on TV or movies, you'll see a CPAP machine on the nightstand now, which never existed maybe 15 years ago. And I remember back in manufacturing days, back when I was with Restaurantix, when some show had a had a CPAP or a mask, everybody would take a screenshot and then email each other that, hey, this has happened, blah, but now it's so ubiquitous that nobody thinks about it anymore.

It's just part and parcel of your nightstand. That's a true story. And if you're paying attention, you even see skits about CPAMP on Saturday Night Live. Right. Black is getting into it. Yeah. I mean, it's nice to see that. At the same time, you hope that people connect the dots. And I think things that we're going to be able to look forward to, though, as we look through the rest of the year, I know we were talking about having some guests on to talk about the code changes that are coming. We've got some great guests lined up to You know, there's a lot of change going on the rest of the year.

And so it's fun to see, you know that the conversation rise on that side. But I think at the same time, it there are some serious aspects of it as we look at balance of year and the changes that are coming. What is that going to mean? For patients, for our clinician peers, what's it going mean for sleep? So I think there's a lot to look forward to from a content standpoint as we think about the balance of the year, where we're headed. I'm excited about some of guests we have in our pipeline. Absolutely.

All right. Well, gentlemen, thank you so much and folks out there. Thank you. So much. It's it's been a wonderful four years and we look forward to continuing this. And I think we're just getting warmed up. Emerson had posted a little blurb on LinkedIn. If you'll follow that, it surprising to see where we are right now. AI puts us on top in terms of the cross between technology and clinical aspects when it comes to sleep. And that's thanks to all of you. We can't thank you enough for your likes, your subscriptions, and your shares.

Please continue to subscribe. Like I said, it's only a tiny fraction of those that are viewing our show that have actually subscribed. Keep hitting the subscribe button. we really appreciate it. A huge, huge thanks for our sponsors. and be sure to check them out. So until next time, lights on. Hello, I'm Massey Errington, President-elect of the American Association of Sleep Technologists. I wanted to reach out and let you know that the AST is your professional home and chief advocate. As an AEST member, you'll gain up to 22 free CECs annually.

You'll also have access to technology specific education, as well as the community and advocacy that you need to advance your career and improve patient outcomes. With the AST's new strategic plan tackling sleep technology's biggest challenges head on, now is the time to advanced our profession together. Visit astweb.org and discover where you belong.