Full Transcript Introduction and Dr. Jockersu2019 Background 0:01 Dr. Jockers, welcome to the peptide and Biore. 0:03 Actually it's the Bioregulator and Peptide Summit. 0:06 I'm a little partial bioregulator. 0:07 So that's the name of my summit. Welcome. 0:10 Thank you so much for taking the time today. 0:12 Thanks so much, Nathalie. It's an honor. 0:14 Oh well, the honors mine. 0:15 I've been waiting for this forever. 0:17 So I'm going to read a little intro about doctor doctors 0:20 for the for people listening to this who might not know who he is. 0:23 Everybody else probably does. 0:25 Doctor Jockers runs one of the most popular natural health 0:28 website drjockers.com which has gotten over holy jumping. 0:32 This number is beautiful. 0:34 1 million monthly visitors and the host of the Doctor 0:37 Doctor's Functional Nutrition podcast, which is consistently the number one 0:41 ranked nutrition podcast in the world and among the top 30 overall 0:44 health and fitness podcasts in the world. 0:47 Doctor doctors is the author of the bestselling books 0:50 for the Keto Metabolic Breakthrough and the Fasting Transformation. 0:54 And if you're wondering what you're talking about 0:56 today, that's your foreshadowing right there. 0:58 He's a world 0:59 renowned expert in the area of metabolic health, fasting, brain health, 1:02 inflammation, and functional nutrition all topics near and dear to my heart. 1:07 Doctor doctors lives near Atlanta, Georgia with his wife Angel. 1:10 His twin boys David and Joshua and his daughters. 1:13 Joyful and shine. Once again. 1:15 Thank you to the summit, doctor. Doctors. 1:17 It's a pleasure to have you here. 1:19 Well thanks again, Natalie. Great. 1:20 You know, I love talking about fasting and love this summit that you're doing. 1:23 You know, I'm all about longevity and and anti-aging and doing 1:27 everything I can to optimize my health and my performance so I can be the best 1:31 businessman, the best communicator, right? 1:35 Doctor, husband and father. 1:37 Right. 1:37 And and helping my wife be the best wife. 1:40 Right. 1:40 So, so, you know, every role, every role of our life. 1:44 We want to be the best. 1:45 You know, I heard this quote a long time ago and it stuck with me. 1:48 You know, I was an athlete growing up. 1:50 And my coach said, you know, when you're done being an athlete, 1:52 you're going to be an occupational athlete. 1:54 You're always going to want to be better at whatever you do. 1:56 You have to have the right mindset. 1:58 And that got me into health, right? 1:59 And it was this idea of so powerful. 2:01 Yeah, I want to optimize my performance in every area of my life. 2:06 And you know, that's what you're doing with the bio regulators and peptides 2:10 and helping people with this. 2:11 And, you know, I try to do it with with nutrition and teaching 2:15 people the right food seat and times when, when they shouldn't be eating right. 2:18 And how do you staffing as a tool to help optimize their health and performance? 2:22 Yeah. 2:22 And so, you know, 2:23 if those of you who are here are scratching their heads going, 2:26 well, what are you doing in a bio regulator and peptide summit? 2:29 Doctor jackers and I were just talking about this offline fasting triggering 2:33 autophagy, mitochondrial biogenesis triggering that deep cellular healing. 2:39 These are all the powerful tools that you can use to prepare the terrain 2:44 and optimize it for your bio regulators and peptides to do their work. 2:49 So, you know, let's just get, you know, let's just dive right in here 2:53 and start with explaining to people what it's really is. 2:57 And why is it so critical for healing?
Why Fasting Supports Healing and Longevity 3:00 For sure. 3:00 Well, I always say that fasting is the most ancient, inexpensive, 3:04 and powerful healing strategy known to mankind. 3:06 Meaning that all of our ancestors fasted. 3:09 And it wasn't that they it wasn't that they did it intentionally. 3:12 Although there are cultures around the world that do do intentional fasting. 3:15 But, you know, our ancestors, they didn't have refrigerators and pantries. 3:17 So, you know, and when they either they were dependent 3:20 upon a good hunt or a good harvest, and that wasn't always consistent. 3:24 It wasn't predictable. 3:25 Sometimes they would be in times of famine where they would under eat 3:29 or not be able to eat, and sometimes they would have to go days without eating. 3:33 And the body, you know, the genetic blueprint that God gave us 3:36 has this amazing adaptability to times of famine. 3:40 In fact, those times of famine are incredible times of healing and repair. 3:45 And it really has to do with that concept of autophagy. 3:47 And I'm going to jump into that. 3:48 But, you know, I mentioned power, I mentioned ancient, inexpensive. 3:52 Of course, fasting doesn't cost anything. 3:53 And maybe the most powerful form of healing. 3:56 And it's built into our biology. 3:58 Right. 3:58 And one of the reasons why is when insulin goes down. 4:01 So insulin is this hormone. 4:03 We hear about it with insulin resistance and diabetes. 4:06 Insulins job is to take sugar glucose out of the bloodstream, 4:10 put it into the cells where it can be used for energy. 4:12 And that's really important because if sugar builds up 4:15 like somebody with uncontrolled diabetes, 4:17 those sugar molecules will bind to proteins 4:19 and they'll create sticky proteins, advanced glycation end products. 4:23 And these age advanced glycation and products 4:27 AGS, what do you think that does to your body ages you right. 4:30 They damage the endothelial lining of your blood vessels and they create plaque. 4:35 They create the damage in the blood vessels that then forms plaque. 4:39 So they shut down blood supply to major areas of the body, 4:41 including your nerves, including your kidneys, your liver. 4:45 And this is why somebody with uncontrolled diabetes, 4:47 type two diabetes, they don't die from the diabetes. 4:51 They die from congestive heart failure. 4:53 They die from kidney failure. They're on dialysis. 4:56 You know, they end up with optic neuritis because the nerves feeding the blood, 5:00 feeding the eyes, the nerves, optic nerve becomes so damaged. 5:04 Right? Yeah. 5:04 And so they can't see that peripheral neuropathy. 5:06 They can't feel their feet. 5:08 You know, they have all these different issues. 5:10 And that's because of the damage of these AGS. 5:12 So insulin prevents that by getting the sugar into the cell. 5:16 And that's critical. 5:17 However as long as insulin is elevated in our bloodstream 5:21 and it should be elevated for a, you know, maybe an hour, hour after a meal, right. 5:26 That's totally fine. 5:28 It's it's doing its job. 5:30 When it stays elevated for a long period of time, 5:33 it stops our ability to burn fat 5:36 for fuel and our mitochondria run. 5:39 That's what they do. 5:40 They produce, they take fatty acids, right. 5:42 And they use them as an energy source, and they produce rampant amount 5:46 rampant amounts of cellular energy and a small amount of metabolic waste 5:51 when we're dependent upon sugar burning, upon glycolysis. 5:55 That's a great quick fuel. 5:56 Sugar is a quick fuel and we don't need oxygen. 5:59 So it's an anaerobic fuel source. 6:02 Like when we're exercising at a high intensity we have to use glucose. 6:05 Right. 6:06 And but it produces very little cellular energy and produces 6:10 a lot of metabolic waste, a lot of free radicals, 6:12 a lot of oxidative stress on the system in small amounts. 6:16 That's great. 6:17 It helps turn on our body's own endogenous production 6:20 of antioxidant defense systems, and that's fantastic. 6:24 But when we're doing it all day long because we have high insulin 6:28 now, we start to rust and damage the mitochondria and all the different 6:31 cellular organelles. 6:32 It becomes a major problem. 6:34 So we need to undergo periods of time where we have low insulin 6:38 on a daily basis. 6:40 When we have low insulin. 6:42 And fasting is one way. 6:43 By not eating, it's actually the fastest way to get low insulin levels. 6:49 That brings that insulin down below a certain threshold. 6:52 We start burning fat for fuel. 6:53 And it also triggers this mechanism that you mentioned called autophagy, 6:56 which is self eating. 6:58 So the body needs proteins. 7:01 It needs amino acids to produce blood cells 7:04 to produce growth factors to produce peptides in the body. 7:08 All these things and it knows how to do it. 7:10 It just needs the right environment. 7:12 And so when insulin goes down for a period of time, a long enough 7:16 period of time, the body will start to not only burn fat for fuel, 7:20 but also it will start to break down old damaged cellular organelles. 7:25 So within the cell we've got all these different organs. 7:28 They're called organelles. 7:30 So we have things like the Golgi apparatus, 7:32 the endoplasmic reticulum, the mitochondria. 7:35 These things become damaged just as a normal part of life from oxidation. 7:39 And they need to be repaired and replaced. Right. 7:42 Just like, you know, things in our home, right. 7:44 And stuff like that. 7:45 And so we need this, this process of autophagy. 7:49 In order to do that, we break down those those organelles, 7:52 take the raw materials and produce new healthy cellular organelles. 7:57 You know, in the longevity space, we primarily focus on mitochondria 8:00 because that's what produces the energy within the cells. 8:04 Right. 8:04 And it's also kind of a sensory it has a sensory function as well. 8:07 Yeah. 8:08 And so we want you know, 8:09 really ultimately the quality of our life is going to come down to the amount 8:13 of high functioning, stress resilient mitochondria in the cells of our body. 8:17 So when we undergo this autophagy process, we refresh, we renew the mitochondria. 8:23 So we get rid of the bad old damage mitochondria that are not working well. 8:27 And we replace them with new healthy stress resilient mitochondria. 8:32 Also, fasting or this period of time with very low insulin 8:36 allows our body to now create more mitochondria. 8:40 So it sends a signal that activates something called mitochondrial 8:44 biogenesis where we form new mitochondria as well. 8:48 So the cells become more energy efficient. 8:51 Right. 8:51 And they they they have more mitochondria. 8:54 And so again, really the quality of our life 8:58 and our longevity is has a lot to do with the amount of,
Insulin, Fat Burning, and Autophagy 9:02 of stress resilient, high functioning mitochondria. 9:06 And so this fasting process to undergo autophagy 9:11 allows us to be able to form new healthy stress resilient mitochondria. 9:16 Yeah that's beautiful overview. 9:19 And I you know to weave to weave our 9:22 our headliner topic from the summit into this is if you think about it guys, 9:27 you know people are going to run around saying you know take Motsi to push her 9:32 mitochondria to work better or to get more cellular energy or use SS 9:36 31, which is going to help to heal the mitochondrial membrane or use GLP 9:41 because the GLP are going to help to manage blood sugar 9:45 and understand that by fasting, even if it's. 9:49 And we're going to talk about different ways 9:50 of fasting in a little while, whether you're going to fast 9:54 some days of the week, I'm not a huge seven day a week faster. 9:57 I'm I mean, other than the 12 hour fast we should all be doing on a daily basis, 10:03 but those periods of allowing the body to to heal is going. 10:08 Even if you did end up still needing the Motsi and whatever on the other side, it's 10:12 going to set your it's going to set you up so that you have, as doctor 10:15 doctors just said, more healthier, more functional mitochondria. 10:19 The last thing you want is to be firing up mitochondria 10:22 that are damaged and not working properly, that are just going to spit out 10:26 these reactive oxygen species at a rate that your body can't keep up with. 10:30 That could end up doing more damage than good. 10:32 So I love that, that, that kind of that capsule that you just created. 10:38 And then the other thing I just wanted to say is, you know what, 10:41 guys, insulin is a hormone, but insulin is a peptide. 10:44 So it's the peptide that everybody's heard of. 10:48 And it is the good news, bad news peptide as doctor doctors was just saying. 10:52 And I just think it's important to just for people to really understand 10:57 that this whole peptide space, this isn't this isn't new voodoo or anything. 11:02 This is tapping into body's natural systems. 11:05 And so to get the most out of them, we're going to want to tap into the body's 11:09 most ancient and kind of embedded systems to optimize our results. 11:16 So let's talk about a little bit these best strategies that support this 11:21 natural autophagy process, which you know, we're going to probably hear. 11:25 We're going to talk about different types of fasting windows. 11:28 Because not everybody can just jump into a 24 hour 36 or 48 hour fast. 11:34 But for everybody, you can kind of work your way into a world where you're 11:39 at least reestablishing a natural daily fasting routine, 11:42 which is that 12 hour not putting anything in your mouth business. 11:46 Yeah for sure. 11:47 So when it comes to fasting, fasting is really a tool. 11:51 It's a lifestyle and is a tool, 11:52 but it's really built around this idea of feast, famine, cycling. 11:56 So our ancestors, when they when they had a great harvest, 11:59 or if they had a great hunt, they feasted like you didn't 12:03 have great food storage, you ate when food was around, you ate and you ate, 12:07 you know, plentiful amounts, right? 12:09 And then when food wasn't around, you just, 12:11 you know, you underrate or you weren't able to eat. 12:14 And that was the way it worked in our society 12:16 today, most people are in a chronic state of feasting. 12:20 You know, we have access to food 24 over seven. 12:22 You know, people are eating from the time they wake up to the time they go to bed. 12:25 Food when we eat food, particularly hyper palatable food. 12:28 But really anything we're going to get some level of dopamine release. 12:31 And in today's society, I mean, you know, if you go and and, 12:36 you know, you have a lollipop, 12:37 I mean, my goodness, like the amount of dopamine 12:40 you're releasing, you're creating an addictive cycle. 12:42 Now, this is a beautiful thing that God created for us, that 12:46 we get a dopamine boost when we eat like it should be a pleasurable experience, 12:51 which is great, however, because food so available in our society, 12:55 a lot of people are eating emotionally, right? 12:58 And so they're not actually hungry, truly hungry. 13:02 They're eating 13:02 because they have emotional desires to eat or conditioned responses to eat. 13:07 Eating at certain times a day when they would normally eat. 13:10 And they're in this state of chronic feasting, 13:14 and that's characterized by high insulin levels in their blood. 13:16 Now, in the bio hacker space, 13:19 we almost kind of have a little bit of the opposite, 13:21 right where people are like, they've gotten so into fasting that 13:25 a lot of people are doing, yes, fasting too much. 13:28 And you think about somebody that has anorexia, they're fasting 13:31 too much under eating. Right. 13:32 And we see the detrimental effects of that. 13:34 So we need this feast pulse followed by a fast pulse. 13:39 And so it's this constant like seesaw cycle that we're trying to go for here, 13:44 where we are sending a message to ourselves that food is abundant. 13:48 Therefore produce the sex hormones. Right. 13:51 That we need to szostak own estrogen progesterone 13:54 because these hormones are associated with fatality. 13:57 And in times of famine, like deep famine, 14:01 our body goes into a survival mechanism. 14:03 And that survival mechanism does not prioritize fertility and anti-aging. 14:08 It prioritizes survival. Okay. 14:11 And that's more characterized by stress hormones. 14:13 And so when we cycle back and forth, though, where we have a short 14:19 period of time of feasting, we're getting plenty of calories in, right? 14:23 Lots of nutrients in, followed by short periods of time of fasting. 14:27 We're now we're bringing that insulin down. 14:30 We're giving a horse memetic or positive 14:33 stress on the body that says, okay, we're in a time of famine. 14:37 We need to break down these old damaged proteins. 14:39 We need to go undergo cellular healing, 14:41 but we're not in that too long and we're able to cycle back into feast. 14:45 And so it's this constant seesaw. 14:47 That's where the magic is. 14:49 And this is where a lot of people go wrong. 14:51 They they hear about fasting or whatever it is, and they go too hard, too fast. 14:56 Right? Yeah. 14:56 And so it really is all about, you know, getting the right dose for you. 15:02 And this is, you know, this is personalized medicine, right. 15:05 And so even when it comes to fasting, there's no really cookie cutter approach 15:08 that's going to work the same for every single person. 15:12 And that's an important, important way to note it to to note it. 15:15 And that's why 15:16 when I start people on a good nutrition plan, I always start by saying, okay, 15:21 we need to make sure, number one, let's just take out all the snacking 15:24 and let's just go to three meals, three meals a day, okay. 15:28 High protein, making sure you're getting 30 to 50g or more of protein in a meal. 15:33 Okay. 15:33 You need to get at least 100g of protein a day on a daily eating pattern, okay. 15:38 And if you're, you know, 15:40 doing a lot of resistance training, you might need a lot more than that. 15:43 Like, I'm usually eating 250g of protein in a typical day. 15:46 And so high protein. 15:49 Make sure you've got healthy fats up to your tolerance point. 15:52 So for some people, they can do a lot of fat and feel great. 15:56 And other people maybe because they have sluggish bile flow, maybe
Fasting Windows and Daily Eating Structure 16:00 it's a ApoE4 genotype or whatever it is, they're not metabolizing fat as well. 16:05 So I'll tell people start with about 15 to 20g 16:09 and see how you feel with that, particularly 16:11 if they've had issues in the past, you know, with that 16:13 and then gradually increase it if you feel okay. 16:17 Right. 16:17 Because that fats going to create satiety as well as the protein. 16:20 And usually you're going to get these healthy fats from, 16:22 you know, all your protein sources, your grass fed meats, wild caught fish, 16:26 things like that, pasture raised eggs. 16:27 But you know, if you have like something really lean, you can add in a little bit 16:30 of high polyphenol extra virgin olive oil, which is amazing. 16:33 You add in some of that and that's great. 16:36 And then colorful fruits and vegetables and and up to your tolerance point, 16:40 some people do great on lots of vegetables. Right. 16:42 Lots of high fiber foods. 16:44 Other people not as well with that. Right. 16:46 So up to your tolerance point, trying to get a lot of colors in your diet, 16:49 I think that's great nutrition strategy, removing 16:52 as much of the processed foods as possible and then you personalize it. 16:56 Maybe you don't do as well with broccoli, but you do great with cucumbers, right? 16:59 Great. 16:59 So you personalize it from there. 17:00 And you're doing three meals okay. 17:03 In the morning when you wake up, start with 16oz of water non caloric beverage. 17:10 Right. 17:10 It could be coffee could be herbal teas things like that. 17:13 Non caloric beverages. 17:15 Before you even think about eating anything what happens here 17:18 is when we when our stomach 17:21 when there's nothing in our stomach, we release a hormone called ghrelin. 17:25 And ghrelin travels up into our brain and signals hunger. 17:28 It's called our hunger hormone. 17:29 When our stomach descends, opens up, right? 17:33 Because things are in it, including water, it inhibits 17:36 ghrelin production and therefore we get natural satiety. 17:40 So for a lot of people that will tell me, I just I'm starving. 17:43 When I wake up, I'm like, well, do you drink? 17:45 And most of them are not. 17:46 And so I say, well start by drinking water, right. 17:49 Drink eight ounces of water 17:50 when you first wake up, like within the first 15 minutes or so, 17:54 drink eight ounces of water, drink a drink, a warm beverage. 17:58 That warm beverage will activate your vagus nerve will help calm you. 18:02 Reduce the amount of cortisol. 18:03 I mean, you want good, 18:04 good cortisol release, but it will help balance out that cortisol. 18:08 You can even take a little bit of salt, right? 18:10 Good, good unmarried salt which is great as far as like a 18:14 block against high cortisol. 18:16 And you know, you can do warm lemon tea, you know, warm lemon. 18:20 You can do herbal teas, coffee, things like that. 18:22 But just the beverage getting in is going to give you natural satiety. 18:26 Right. 18:26 And then just sip on some water, 18:28 you know, as you go and wait till you get naturally get hungry. 18:32 All right. 18:32 And for a lot of people, they can go multiple hours. Right. 18:35 But if you need to have that breakfast meal great. 18:37 Eat the breakfast meal. 18:39 Okay. 18:39 Let's say 8 a.m., you know, whatever it is, right? 18:42 Go about four hours and then have another high protein meal 18:45 and then another 4 to 5 hours and have another high protein meal. 18:48 And that's your three meals a day. 18:50 And then do that for about a week and then intuitively see how you feel 18:55 right by cutting it by dropping the or, 19:00 I should say, the closing the window of time that you're eating. 19:03 Right. 19:04 So you might be eating in a ten hour eating window. 19:08 Right. 19:08 Typically, if people hydrate in the morning, 19:10 they're easily able to get it to about ten hours, right. 19:13 Let's say they breakfast at eight, they finish inner at six or whatever 19:16 it is. 19:16 And then what you do is you just kind of keep hydrating. 19:19 So for a lot of people they notice that it's just easier. 19:22 They're getting going in their day. 19:23 They don't even think about food. 19:24 It's easier for them to fast in the morning. 19:26 That's fine if that works for you. 19:28 Okay. 19:29 Or, you know, you could fast through lunch or you could fast, 19:33 you know, or you could eat early dinner, right? Yeah. 19:36 Either one of my favorite personally, I think if early dinner. 19:40 Yeah, I think for the problem is socially it's tough to manage 19:44 it is to sit with your family and have dinner. 19:46 You know, you sit around the table. That's. 19:48 But but definitely I think Birley time restricted feeding. 19:51 The science shows that that is very powerful and. 19:55 Yeah, exactly. 19:56 But like you said it's the hardest to be compliant with. 20:00 Yeah. 20:00 On a day to day basis because of the social element of dinner. 20:04 Yeah. 20:05 And so that's what's challenging. 20:06 So I'll talk about those things. 20:08 Yeah. 20:09 Maybe just do that one day a week if you had to write. 20:13 But yeah, trying to get your eating window into like an eight hour 20:16 eating window is a really great idea. 20:18 So maybe a later breakfast, okay, 9 a.m. 20:22 and, you know, you finish your last meal before 5:00, something along those lines. 20:25 That's an eight hour eating window. 20:27 Probably the most popular is like a 12 to 8 people don't eat until noon 20:31 and then they, you know, finish dinner by 8 p.m. 20:34 and that can work great as well. 20:35 And you can do three meals if you want in that time period or two big meals. 20:39 It depends how well you digest your food, but that's 16 eight fast 20:43 is probably the most common fast. 20:45 And that gives 20:45 you time to get that insulin down and start the process of autophagy. 20:50 But you're going to get a much a higher level of autophagy 20:55 when you're able to do something like a 20 to 24 hour fast. 20:58 And this is something that I try to do every single week, like a 24 hour fast. 21:02 And I what I find there, Natalie, is I try to do a lunch to lunch fast. 21:07 So do you. I do dinner to dinner. That's so interesting. 21:09 That's the most popular way people do it right. To dinner, to dinner. 21:12 Because you're busy. You just get going with your day. 21:14 Things like that. 21:14 Go to bed. 21:15 But, you know, I just notice that 21:18 I feel so refreshed the next day. 21:22 And if I have a, like, a really good, you know, high protein 21:25 lunch it I can fast through dinner. 21:28 I mean, as long as I didn't do resistance training that day, 21:32 you know, it's really no problem. 21:33 I can fast through dinner. 21:34 I feel like I sleep deeper, my heart rate variability is better. 21:39 And then. 21:40 Yeah, and then it's easy 21:41 for me to continue that fast up until I usually break it with a workout. 21:45 Right? Yeah. 21:46 And then and then follow up with food right after that. 21:49 And that works. 21:50 That's a great point. 21:51 Do you want to talk about that a little bit? 21:53 This the idea of fasting at the end, working out at the end of a fast. 21:58 So people are going to be sitting there going 22:00 but wait a minute, like aren't you starving? 22:02 Like, aren't you damaging your body? 22:04 Which I think when you talked about from an evolutionary perspective, our bodies 22:09 had to actually get better at hunting when we didn't have food on board. 22:13 It had to get better at accessing stores of energy. 22:17 So now you're going to get the energy 22:18 that your body has squirreled away for a rainy day. 22:21 Make this the rainy day, expend the energy, and then what happens? 22:26 And I'd love you to outline for people what happens on the other side 22:30 of that post fast workout when you now do that re feed? 22:34 Yeah for sure. 22:35 So you know when you're fasting I talked just about autophagy. 22:37 But another big thing that happens is your body starts creating ketones. 22:41 And these ketones are water soluble molecules made from fat 22:45 and your liver makes them. 22:46 And the reason why your liver makes them is because we can't get fatty acids 22:50 across the blood brain barrier to fuel brain cells. 22:53 So our neurons depend on glucose for about, you know, 22:57 they can get about 50% of their energy from ketones, 22:59 but they always need some level of glucose, 23:01 which is why you always have some level of blood glucose. 23:04 But when we get those ketones elevated, 23:06 particularly the one that we measure in blood is beta hydroxybutyrate. 23:09 When that gets up into the brain at a significant level, 23:12 it shuts down brain inflammation. 23:14 And this allows you to actually have better mental clarity and focus. 23:19 And you actually feel amazing when, when when you have this elevation 23:23 and ketones in your brain. 23:25 Also you get this big rise of growth hormone. 23:28 Growth hormone is a quintessential anti-aging hormone. 23:31 Of course, there's peptides, you know, that helps support growth hormone. 23:34 But your body will actually naturally endogenously produce 23:37 this growth hormone, particularly when insulin is down like this. 23:41 Right. 23:41 And of course, sleeping is when we get the largest rise, 23:44 if we have enough melatonin, if we're producing enough melatonin, 23:47 like going to bed at a good time, keeping keeping blue light out at night, 23:50 things like that, all good circadian rhythm rituals. 23:53 And so but that growth hormone will protect your lean body tissue. 23:57 So people always say, well. 23:58 Am I going to lose muscle if I fast? 24:00 And depends how long the fast is, because you can lose muscle 24:04 from not getting the mechanical stimulus right. 24:06 Not lifting weights 24:07 will cause you to lose muscle whether you're eating or not, right? 24:10 Yeah, nobody really worries about that. Yeah. 24:13 And so you you. 24:15 So you're not losing muscle from the fast. 24:18 Okay. As long as you know you're not. 24:20 As long as your growth hormones elevated. Right. 24:22 And there could be ways like if you're drinking 24:24 like eight cups of coffee as you're fasting. Right. 24:26 That could, that could, could blunt your growth hormone release. 24:29 You're not sleeping, you know, things like that. 24:31 But the fast itself, as long as you're doing things 24:34 right, is not going to cause you to lose muscle. 24:38 However, if you go a long period of time, multiple days, you know, like many days 24:41 without weight training 24:43 and you've built muscle through weight training, you're going to lose the muscle. 24:47 And so this is where, like for example, a 24 hour 24:51 fast, you're not going to lose any muscle during a 24 hour fast. 24:54 And you get yourself more metabolically flexible. 24:57 And this is actually a really like like this is a great sign that your body is
Workout Timing, Ketones, and Metabolic Flexibility 25:01 very, very metabolically flexible, which is really the goal. 25:05 The goal is not how long can I go through this fast right. 25:08 Can I out fast? 25:10 You know, the person next to me. 25:11 It's really how metabolically flexible can I get my body? 25:14 Metabolic flexibility means how good am I at burning glucose for fuel 25:18 and burning fat for fuel? Right. 25:20 And can I switch back and forth really, really quickly? 25:24 So when we're fasting, if we're just, you know, hanging out and doing 25:28 only low level, like very light activities, maybe taking a little walk, 25:31 things like that, we're primarily burning fat. 25:35 However, we are always going to have some level of glycogen stores 25:39 stored glucose in our muscles and in our liver. 25:43 Now we'll use some of that up early on in the fast, 25:46 but our body is going to preserve it, especially if we're a trained 25:49 person to begin with. 25:50 Like if we've been doing regular high intensity 25:53 training and resistance training, we're going to have higher glycogen stores 25:56 than somebody who's who's sedentary. 25:58 Yeah. 25:58 So you're going to have that glycogen store. 26:00 But can you tap into that. 26:02 Can you actually use that for energy. 26:04 So if I'm doing a 24 hour fast and then I'm going ahead 26:08 and at our 23 I'm working out at a real high intensity. 26:11 I'm doing I'm lifting weights, okay. 26:14 I've already got more growth hormone in my system 26:17 than I normally would if I was on like a 16 hour fast. 26:20 All right. 26:21 And I got elevated ketones actually. 26:24 Should I better performance if I'm, if I'm metabolically flexible 26:27 and that's what I, I pretty consistently notice that my workouts are amazing. 26:33 Like like I regularly I'm very fit person. 26:36 I work out, I lift weights 5 to 6 days a week. 26:38 And so my workouts are typically very good. 26:41 But at the end of that 24 hour fast, like typically I would say 90% of the time 26:46 if I slept well the night before, it's like the best workout of the week. 26:49 Like, I just feel amazing when I'm doing it. 26:51 And that, again, is that metabolic flexibility. 26:54 And that's really the key. And you can even do this. 26:55 I've done it at the end of a four day fast 26:58 and felt great while I was working out, believe it or not. 27:02 But that's because you've achieved this metabolic flexibility. 27:04 So just to highlight to the audience, you're going to work 27:07 your way into this, guys. 27:08 If this is not, if you have not, you know, not eaten for longer 27:12 than the time you're asleep, let's say 7 or 8 hours a night. 27:16 In years and years and years, you're going to have to ease your way into this. 27:21 And this is this is a muscle, right? 27:24 The muscle of time restricted eating, the muscle 27:27 of fasting and the muscle of reintroducing. 27:30 Because your body knows how to do this, it just hasn't done it a long time. 27:34 So the muscle of reintroducing the body to this concept of, 27:38 look, we've got tons of fuel on board, men, we just need to go get it. 27:42 Yeah. 27:42 And so if your cells are full of senescent 27:47 mitochondria, he's damaged mitochondria that can't burn fat for fuel. 27:52 You got to get rid of those and replace them with new healthy mitochondria or. 27:56 Yeah, you're not going to feel good 27:57 because you can't burn fat effectively and may not feel good when you're fast. 28:02 You know why you have those. 28:03 So this is where like, you know, it's always one of those things 28:06 people will say, well, I've had a lot of people 28:08 with chronic inflammatory conditions that are like, hey, 28:11 should I do like a seven day water fast, five day water fast? 28:15 I'm like eventually ten, but it's going to feel 28:17 really it's going to be really hard. 28:19 It will get rid 28:20 of a lot of these damaged cells, but it's going to be rough for you. 28:23 Yeah, I would actually to 28:24 to just help you be more compliant and have a better experience with this. 28:28 Let's get your body more metabolically flexible in a more gentler way first. 28:33 So he's in. Yeah. 28:35 No that's and I mean you know guys you didn't 28:38 you didn't get to wherever you are today in a in a week. 28:41 So you you need to give yourself grace and to really kind of 28:46 get yourself back to this place with kindness, 28:49 not kind of shoving your body into, okay, this is what we're doing kind of thing 28:53 and just kind of move yourself along in, in a, in a better way. 28:57 Right. 28:57 And in a way that's not going to cause suffering 28:59 because the suffering, to your point, is the best way to at some point 29:03 wake up one morning and go, you know what? 29:05 I don't need this. I'm going back to my old ways. 29:08 So small baby steps along the way, even if it might take you a little longer to get 29:13 there will always be more valuable to you in the long run than just jumping in. 29:17 I mean, there's a few people out there that can just go cold turkey, but maybe 29:21 for most of us, it's not the best path forward. 29:24 Yeah, you got to think about it like, you know, if you have not done anything 29:28 but walk to your mailbox and back and then you say, okay, today I'm going to 29:31 run a 10-K, 29:33 you might be able to complete it, but like, 29:35 you won't be able to walk for the next few days. 29:37 You're going to be so sore. 29:39 Yeah. Yeah. 29:40 So so our last little topic here, because I think that there's 29:44 another piece of the puzzle that we have, we've talked about a bit on the summit, 29:48 but I'd love you to address it in the context of fasting. 29:50 And this is about the gut microbiome. 29:52 Right. 29:53 So we talk about peptides for gut healing all the time. 29:56 But here's what peptides are not going to do. 29:58 They're not going to fix the microbiome. 30:00 They're going to potentially improve the integrity of the gut lining. 30:06 They're going to potentially in some cases, they might help 30:09 with resolving some of the inflammatory issues in the gut, 30:12 but they're not necessarily going to fix that microbiome. 30:15 And counterintuitively again, what you don't eat 30:19 might actually help that flora 30:22 in the gut to be in better balanced. 30:26 So I'd love for you to speak to that a little bit before we kind of close off 30:30 for. Yeah, for sure. 30:31 So in our gut, 30:32 we have two categories of microbes primary feeders and secondary feeders. 30:37 Primary feeders live right above the gut mucosa. 30:40 The gut mucosa is this mucous lining. 30:42 That's right above the one cell right. 30:45 One cell layer of intestinal lining. 30:47 And so the secondary feeders live within the mucosa. 30:51 So primary feeders above the mucosa secondary feeders under the mucosa. 30:55 We need both of them okay. 30:57 But we need the right balance and the right ratio. 30:59 And so when we're constantly eating every few hours 31:02 throughout the day we're primarily feeding the primary feeders. 31:06 And they overgrow. 31:07 And when they overgrow it crowds out space and nutrients for the secondary feeders. 31:13 So those secondary feeders start to die down. 31:16 Okay. 31:17 And so when we actually go periods of time without food, 31:21 the primary feeders themselves will trim down. 31:24 Okay. 31:25 So we'll get less of them. 31:27 But but it'll allow the secondary feeders. 31:29 And some of them are, you know, include things like acre maximum, 31:34 which has been pretty well studied 31:35 to be one of the most important bacteria for good metabolic health. 31:39 Fecal Persichilli fecal bacteria. 31:42 And that's the name of it, 31:44 which, again, another one of the most more well-studied bacteria 31:47 that lives in the intestinal lining and is butyrate producer. 31:51 And the intestinal lining produces your within a things like that. 31:54 And so we really need these but 31:58 it's actually taking time away from meals okay.
Fasting, Gut Health, and the Microbiome 32:01 Like doing this sort of intermittent fasting that allows 32:04 the primary feeders and secondary feeders to have the right ratios. 32:08 And those secondary feeders will produce things like butyrate, like Muralitharan, 32:14 that get into the intestinal, into into the intestinal cells 32:19 and will stimulate mitochondrial biogenesis might where we break 32:23 down the old damaged mitochondria. 32:25 So those post bionics are incredibly important for good intestinal health. 32:30 Right. 32:30 And that creates better intestinal lining resilience. 32:34 So it can handle more stress. 32:35 And that intestinal lining is turning over every 3 to 5 days. 32:38 So it needs to be really strong and stress resilient. 32:41 It's got a lot of mechanical stress coming in through the food 32:44 we're eating, through exposure to different pathogens, things 32:47 like that, toxins, glyphosate, all kinds of stuff like that. 32:50 We want it to be as stress resilient as possible. 32:54 And so taking this period of time between meals and allowing for, you know, 32:58 the proper ratio of primary and secondary feeders to develop is really key. 33:02 You know, I always I always think about it like my front yard. 33:05 So I have an apple tree in my front yard and I have a blueberry bush. 33:10 And the apple tree grows like its branches grow really fast. 33:14 Yeah. 33:14 And every year we pay a guy to come out and trim 33:18 the apple tree, which actually limits the amount of apples we get on the tree. 33:22 But if it doesn't do that, the blueberry bush does not get sun. 33:26 And we don't get blueberries. 33:28 We want to we want apples and blueberries. 33:31 Yeah. 33:32 So we have to trim back the apple tree. 33:34 So the blueberry bush gets the proper amount of sunlight. 33:38 So we can have apples and blueberries. 33:40 And if we don't do that we only get a bunch of apples. Right. 33:42 And that's it. 33:43 And your apples are probably better, right? 33:45 You've you the tree is healthier. 33:47 You force the tree to concentrate its energy on less. 33:51 And, you know, just like a wild overgrown. 33:54 And I mean, when you go into into nature and find berries, the big overgrown plants 33:59 often aren't the ones that have the most, biggest, bestest, juiciest berries. 34:03 It's going to be the ones that are smaller. 34:04 So there's benefit to that. 34:07 And so we're fasting where fasting fits in here, you know. 34:11 So it's about reducing the mechanical stress. 34:14 But does it also have a similar effect as it does on the mitochondria, 34:19 where it helps the healthier bacteria to kind of dominate over the pathogens. 34:24 Yeah. And you think about it like this. 34:26 Like healthier mitochondria in the intestine. 34:29 Well actually see our mitochondria needs oxygen to undergo 34:33 beta oxidation and break down the fat for fuel. 34:37 Yeah. 34:37 So it will actually suck oxygen out of the intestines. 34:41 Now when we look at different strains of bacteria, 34:45 the ones that are really pathogenic, you know, your age, 34:49 different types of E.coli, 34:50 Clostridium, Klebsiella, things like that. 34:55 These are aerobic bacterium, meaning that they really drive 35:00 in a higher oxygen environment. 35:02 Whereas these ones that we talked about before 35:05 these secondary feeders are obligate anaerobic bacteria. 35:08 So you have like three classifications. You have some that are kind of dual. 35:11 They can they can. 35:13 They're anaerobic but they can survive in oxygen as well. 35:16 And then you have ones that are obligate anaerobic 35:18 meaning they have to have a very low oxygen environment to survive. 35:22 And that would be some of the ones that are most well studied for good 35:25 good for good metabolic health like Acker Mantia. 35:29 Yeah. 35:29 But what happens is when we have bad 35:30 mitochondrial function in the intestinal lining, 35:33 we're not we're not pulling enough oxygen out. 35:37 We're not we're not able to produce energy through aerobic respiration. 35:40 And so the oxygen stays in the intestinal lumen 35:44 which is like a toxin for these good secondary feeders, these 35:48 these post biotic producers that are so beneficial. 35:52 Right. So it's like which came first. Right. 35:54 But the good healthy mitochondrial function 35:59 will pull the oxygen out and create the right oxygen amount 36:02 in the intestinal lumen for the obligate anaerobes to survive. 36:07 And the ones that are kind of dual where they can 36:11 they can produce energy through aerobic means as well as anaerobic means. 36:15 So Bifidobacterium 36:16 would be in that category for them to be able to survive as well and thrive. 36:21 And this actually keeps the intestinal ecosystem really well balanced. 36:26 You know we look at what is a healthy microbiome. 36:28 Really what researchers found is it's a very diverse microbiome. 36:31 Yes. And one of the most important factors of diversity 36:35 is having the right amount of oxygen in the intestinal lining, 36:39 a very, very low oxygen environment. 36:41 The more oxygen increases in the intestinal lining, the lower 36:44 our diversity. 36:46 So what controls that oxygenation 36:49 is the amount of mitochondrial respiration 36:52 that's taking place in the intestinal cells. 36:56 Better mitochondria, healthier gut microbiome. 36:59 There you go. 37:00 And how do we get that. Stop eating once in a while. 37:03 So this has been great. 37:05 Thank you for this. 37:07 Maybe we just want to wrap up with a little finale by you 37:12 like a little summary for people because we've given them a lot of different 37:15 a lot of information here. 37:17 And so let's kind of summarize how someone 37:20 might get started with fast, with introducing 37:23 fasting windows into their day to day life and not get caught in that trap. 37:28 And we've both seen it a lot. 37:29 You know, people either think they can't go two hours without eating, or 37:33 they get so addicted to fasting that now we see them overdoing it. 37:38 So if you could kind of give us a little, little snippet 37:42 on that and yeah, yeah, we'll do it in about five steps. 37:46 Number one is take out snacks, right? 37:49 Take out ultra processed foods, focus on good 37:52 hydration away from meals and three meals. 37:55 Don't worry about your eating window. 37:57 Eat three meals a day and make sure that in each one of those meals,
How to Start Fasting Safely and Sustainably 38:01 you've got 30 to 50 or more, depending on your activity level. 38:04 Grams of protein 38:05 making sure you're getting about 100g of protein every single day, right? 38:10 At least 100g of protein every single day. 38:12 Now, if you're a kid or if you're a very, very lean woman, 38:15 probably fine with 90g or whatever, right. 38:18 In France. 38:19 And so that's where we start. 38:21 And then that's going to produce natural satiety. 38:23 You're going to be naturally satiated. Right. 38:26 And then you can start playing around with your eating windows. 38:28 And what I typically tell people to do is roughly like a 16 38:32 to 18 hour fasting window in a 6 or 8 hour eating window. 38:36 Yeah, 4 to 5 days a week. Okay. 38:39 And then one day a week where it's more of your feast day, 38:42 you're eating in a 10 to 12 hour eating window. 38:46 Okay. Again, trying to focus on healthier foods. 38:48 But if you're going to a party or whatever it is, 38:51 you know, build it around your feast day and then one day a week 38:55 where we're trying to do a little bit deeper fast, 38:57 a 20 to 24 hour fast, okay, to get that deeper level of autophagy. 39:01 Now, if you have a lot of weight to lose, once you get metabolically flexible 39:05 where you're doing those three meals a day, 39:07 like we talked about, okay, for a few weeks, 39:10 if you want to, if you want to do a 36 hour fast or 40 hour fast, right? 39:14 I've had a lot of people do, you know, one a 48 hour fast every single week, okay. 39:19 And lose, you know, 20 pounds in a month, right? 39:23 Yeah. And feel great. Okay. 39:24 As long as those eating days are getting a lot of protein, right, 39:28 making sure they're getting plenty of calories on those days. 39:30 So we're not in that fasted calorie restricted mode for too long 39:36 and sending the right messages to the body this feast, famine, cycling. 39:39 So that's the key. 39:41 And so it really depends on, 39:43 you know, where somebody is coming in with like what their activity level is. 39:46 So do they have a lot of weight to lose. 39:48 What's their activity level. 39:49 What's your stress level two. 39:51 This is big. Yes. 39:52 Are they sleeping at night okay. 39:54 Gotta make sure you're sleeping well at night 39:56 to really get the best benefits from the fast. Okay? 39:59 If you're already coming in with, like, a lot of sleep problems, 40:02 just stick with the three meals a day until you get the sleep issues addressed. 40:07 If you've got PTSD, if you've got significant stress, 40:12 like you just feel like your stress level is ten out of ten, don't add. 40:16 Don't start fasting. 40:17 Focus on the three meals a day 40:20 until we can get that stress down to maybe a seven out of ten. 40:23 Okay, we're it's very bearable, right? Stress. 40:25 You know I've got got projects things I got to do. 40:28 But this is very bearable. 40:29 And so these are these are things that we got to look at activity level. 40:34 Like if you're a high level athlete in season don't worry about fasting right. 40:39 Eat a lot of protein things like that. Right. 40:41 So there's 40:41 so there's certain things that you know you need to make sure you're addressing. 40:45 Okay. But outside of that, once 40:46 you get your stress under control, your sleep well okay. 40:50 And you've got your diet lined up. 40:53 All right. 40:54 Now we can start implementing some of these, you know, times 40:57 of fasting right where we're doing like maybe a 24 hour fast. 41:00 Or you might want to do a three day fast, 41:02 which has great immune regenerating capacity, right. 41:05 Or even a five day fast that you might want to do to get 41:09 deeper levels of stem cells and autophagy and things like that. 41:12 Okay. But first do the basics right. 41:14 Get those, get that, get your body more metabolically flexible. 41:17 Get off the process foods. 41:19 Stick with whole real food, single ingredient foods as much as possible, 41:23 and really trying to make sure you're getting enough protein. 41:26 Beautiful. Thank you. 41:28 That was fantastic. 41:30 And I'm going to give it a little shout out, 41:31 because people who are watching closely might notice that both of us are 41:35 smoothing today. 41:37 Got our little shout out to 41:39 to transcriptions for their sponsor of the summit actually. 41:43 So so funny that we're 41:46 yeah, we are 41:47 representing today, folks, and we plan that. 41:50 We didn't plan that. 41:51 We just got on the call and we saw each other's tongues. 41:54 And actually, as it turns out, this could actually be really great 41:57 during fast also. Yeah for sure. 42:00 Anyway, Doctor Jockers, thank you so much for being here today. 42:03 Let's let people know where to find you and how to get more of more information. 42:08 And for sure you can find. Yeah. 42:11 drjockers.com is my website. 42:12 You can find me Doctor David Jockers on social media 42:15 as well as my podcast, Doctor Jockers Functional Nutrition podcast. 42:19 Beautiful. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure. 42:21 Thank you.
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