Mold: The Ultimate Mitochondria Destroyer

Jaban Moore, DC

Thanks for having me. I’m excited to talk about this.

Laura Frontiero, FNP-BC

Yes. So we’re going to go deep today into mold and mycotoxins and how this affects mitochondria function. You have quite a story yourself. You are a doctor, a chiropractor. Do you work virtually with clients using functional medicine to help them overcome chronic health conditions? And you specialize in Lyme disease patterns, panda autism, a parasitic infections, environmental toxins. And you have your own Lyme recovery story. You were actually a youngster, 25 years old, a college athlete, and you went from high performance to not being able to get out of bed. And so you solve this problem yourself and it really set you on the path of helping others. And I know that you are an absolute authority in the space of parasites and mold. You have an incredible knowledge base that you put out there on Instagram. So I’m going to encourage everybody to follow you there who’s watching this, because you have so much good content, but thank you so much for adding so much value to this conversation today.

Jaban Moore, DC

Well, this is the topic that you need to know if you’re not. Well, I’ve got clients who come in every single day that have been seeing other providers for ten, 15, 20 years. And they’re tired. Their brain doesn’t work. They don’t feel like they can recover. They’ve tried everything for what they think they can get into. And then in the first 5 minutes, the conversation, I’m just like, hey, so now I’m noticing in your organic acid test that we have oxygen, it’s elevated. We have Krebs Cycle showing some dysfunction, which is your energy cycle that’s within the mitochondria. You aren’t absorbing B two or B12 appropriately or toxic could be five. Like there’s all these markers that you can see. I go as in my test, you promote that? Well, you know, it’s been mentioned like, okay, well did you figure out where it came from? No. We need to test your home right now. And I just had a woman who is due in L.A. and her daughter is on the phone line trying to help make sure that her mom is getting well. And, you know, this is a very difficult thing and it’s a rapid progressing things. We started off with all kinds of testing. Yeah. And I ran a mold test on our home and came back at 19,000. Particles of aspergillus over 500 gives you the mach score. So I was like, you’re I don’t even know how many times over that you’re like a 400 out of ten. So we’ve got to make sure that we do something about this, because if you don’t, your mitochondria will be suppressed and it’s really, really hard to get. 

Laura Frontiero, FNP-BC

Well you know, I’m really glad that you’re bringing this up right out of the gates, because when I did my functional medicine training, it really wasn’t in my training to test and check for mold. I feel like that was a big piece that was missed and, you know, we’ve focused a lot on microbiome and nutrients and supporting mitochondria from an organic acids test, really looking and seeing what people’s nutritional needs were, but not identifying some of these underlying massive toxicities that can create all these problems that we see on the organic acids. So I think why is it do you think that Mycotoxins have been like this big polluting mystery for decades? Why is it been such a big part of functional medicine?

Jaban Moore, DC

It’s just like any other profession. If it’s a difficult conversation to have, we’re going to try to avoid it. So if you’re dealing with a person and I mean, the daughter asked me, what do you do? What can we do for my mom? And I said, Well, at this level of mold toxicity, you need to get out. There’s really not a small solution for this. There’s not one where at this level we can just open the windows or put an air filter, you know, dust the house. That’s not enough in this situation. So it’s a really hard conversation to have. And I go, Look, I get it. This is tough. And the mother was just like, I’ve been here my whole life. Not even right. I go, you know, they could tell they could hear my voice that I didn’t want to tell them just how dire this was. And they could hear that I was I was tripping over my own words because I get it like you’re already maybe at the end. And I don’t want to tell you that you have to leave your home and be uncomfortable and be not where you want to be. But they said, Well, what would you do in this situation? I go, This is my mom. And I go, Maybe I’m being a little bit over the top when I say this. I’m going to burn that place down and move her home so that she can’t go back to it.

Laura Frontiero, FNP-BC

Yeah, right.

Jaban Moore, DC

I mean, like I’m over the top when I say that, but that’s just like the emotion that came out of me in the moment because I’m just like, I want to get you well. And when you’re in there, if we go down the cascade of problems that mold causes, it, it clogs at the liver. So I have a hard time getting rid of parasites and bacteria. We can’t get rid of the mycotoxins that you’re breathing in. You can’t get rid of the metals and the other toxins from food and from pollution around you because your body is so backed up and your liver. Yeah. And your Krebs cycle is a wreck which I mentioned Krebs cycles where you see the mitochondria make energy. Well that’s one of the cycles. The other one is a ketone fatty acid oxidation cycle, which you can see on an organic acid tested within these two cycles is how we produce most of our energy. And if those are suppressed by mold, then you don’t make energy, which means that you don’t create a immune response, you don’t recover tissue and you’re slowly just wasting away, which is kind of what we see with clients that are living in mold. You just see that their function just continues to slowly decline and those conversations are hard. So in functional medicine, it’s like, well, one, is there a perfect test for anything? No. Is there a perfect test for mold? No. Could it come from food? Yes. Could it come from your home? Yes. How do you differentiate that? Well, you run another test. You run one on the home. Is there a perfect, cheap, easy test for the home? There’s never a perfect anything, but there’s a few decent ones. You can run an Irma, test Irma, and we can get into all these tests. I can explain how they work as we go, but you could run that test and then you’ve got to get a building biologist out there, which is a really qualified inspector. Right. It’s just like doctors. Doctors have different specialties. If you call a regular mold inspector, they’re going to come to your home. You know, they’re going to do their and put a little air sampler in another room. They’re going to tell you that it’s clean and then you could sell your house in the real estate market. You’re safe. As far as a seller, a buyer who uses that type of inspector is completely different because those air tests are darn near useless.

Laura Frontiero, FNP-BC

So you’re saying this because people always say, well, I’ll just hire somebody to come out and test my air.

Jaban Moore, DC

No, it’s not. Just hire anybody. Right? It’s just like if you’re listening to the summit, you’ve hired a couple of doctors. It didn’t work out probably. Yep. You’ve, I don’t know, tried a few fasts, a few fads, a few diets, a few this, that and the other didn’t work. But the same thing happens with inspectors. You got to get the right inspector with the right knowledge. They have to understand your health. If you hired an inspector and you say, hey, I have chronic inflammatory response syndrome, I’m having a cell danger response, I’m having mass cell responses. My body is fatigued and I’m dealing with this autoimmune condition. Do you think mold could possibly be the trigger of that? And if so, how? And they look at you like you have four eyes. That’s not the right inspector. So it’s just like your doctor. If you come in and you ask me, Hey, I’m dealing with chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, is it possible that I could have Lyme disease parasites or mold? I look back at you, I’m like, Sure, let’s let’s do some testing. Let’s talk through the symptoms. That’s what you want to hear. If I say, oh, no, that’s not positive. Parasites aren’t the United States. That’s only a third world countries. Lyme disease is all in Wisconsin and mold not a problem. It’s not somebody you want to see.

Laura Frontiero, FNP-BC

Yeah. So definitely I’m going to encourage everyone on this summit, viewing all the viewers to find the practitioners who resonate with you here. Most of you viewing have worked with a couple of practitioners or you’ve been researching and researching and researching on your own and still haven’t figured out how to put it all together. And so find your people on this summit that you trust. This is why we all come together to be able to show you what’s possible. So Jeb and I want to dig in to the common mold toxicity symptoms, because you mentioned in this example of the woman with ALS that’s an advanced mitochondria decline disease that’s end stage down the road. I always say we have a name for chronic end stage mitochondrial disease. It’s called Parkinson’s, it’s called ALS, it’s called cancer. It’s called, you know, heart disease. So what are some of these more toxicity symptoms that you might see early on to help prevent that, you know, chronic disease down the road?

Jaban Moore, DC

Yeah. So if I moved into that home with 19,000 particles, aspergillus on that Fermi test, I might start developing some allergens, right? So I might start developing what I would think was seasonal allergies. So get a little redness around my eyes. I might call my sneeze, my sinuses might fill up, you know, when you get allergies, that does lead to brain fog and fatigue. I can start to develop maybe food allergies, right? So food allergy start to develop because my nervous system is under duress. So instead of seeing a food and going, yum, it’s saying, wait a minute, this is not part of me and I’m stressed out, I’m in attack. So we get regular allergies, food allergies, we start to have digestive tract dysfunction and pain because our gut, which is 70% of your immune system or 70% of it’s down there. So you start to react to foods and organisms and that leads to IBS, that leads to different other diarrhea, constipation. We start having skin breakouts because all of the toxin that’s coming into your body is overwhelming. The detoxification system, which is the liver that then puts toxins into the colon and out of the body. 

Well, if you get backed up now, that toxin starts to come out of your skin. So you start seeing acne rashes raised bumps over time. As this all progresses forward, it’s going to lead to breakdown. So you might start seeing autonomic dysfunction, which looks like you stand up, you get lightheaded, you feel really fatigued, doing easy basic tasks, thinking too long, or trying to work from home. You’re like, My brain just doesn’t work. So you start to have memory issues or you’re not making decisions the way that you used to because your brain is tired. And it’s this data fight or flight anxiety goes up, paranoia can go up. So I kind of tried to take you down at an early stage, just like when you walk into a place and you’re like this little musty in here, you start sneezing all the way down to you stay in that place too long. You start to lose function, and eventually you get to you had the end stage, mitochondrial dysfunction, like you mentioned.

Laura Frontiero, FNP-BC

Oh, yeah. So there’s a lot of signs early on. And, you know, a lot of times you’ll work with a practitioner who will run an organic acid test or a gut test and work on just, you know, replacing nutrients and giving you some good gut products. But if you’re not working with someone specifically looking for toxins and mold, I would recommend that you do find someone who builds that into their programs. And something else I want to tag on. And what you said is, you know, people get food intolerances and, you know, you and I were Pauline before we started this talk that both of us agree. We don’t we don’t recommend food intolerance testing because this is a direct cause. Your food intolerances are direct cause of these chronic infections, toxins, leaky gut. And if you work on clearing those, you can clear the food intolerances and then you don’t need to waste the money on the test. I tend to say, don’t even think about doing that until at least six months in, maybe 12 months in two year programs because it’s just a waste because you’re going to be intolerant to everything.

Jaban Moore, DC

Exactly. And I don’t love wasting money on tests that change in a few months and don’t get us resolution of a problem. And I want to put Band-Aids on things that sometimes are Band-Aids are needed. You’re feeling really terrible. And we need to just do something to take the edge off. But if I can avoid Band-Aids and still reach the solution, that’s the way that I’m going to go in most cases.

Laura Frontiero, FNP-BC

Yeah. Now, let’s talk about the people who live in the same household who might not have the same reaction. So why is it that one person completely crashes, develops all these symptoms you just mentioned, and potentially a chronic disease, while another person in the exact same household seems to be just fine. Their life is great, their health is wonderful, their energies amazing, their skin is clear. They don’t have allergies. They’re the, you know, gifted one in the family. What is going on there?

Jaban Moore, DC

So it’s just like anything, you know, if you have a family of five and one kids brings home of cold from school the whole family of five doesn’t usually end up with that infection. Somebody gets out of it. It’s because their bodies different. Their body is in a different state of health. So for myself and my wife, for instance, I have spent the last, I don’t even know, 15 years trying to figure out health because I went from, you know, pre-med in school to Cairo school to getting Lyme disease, to getting passed Lyme disease, to now being a provider for health. Right? So I spent that long doing this. My wife and I’ve been together for a couple of years. She’s healthy, but we’re just different people. And if you start taking into account How is my mitochondria look, is my mitochondria more robust in its current state than hers? How do you deal with stress in your environment day to day? Like are you stressed out from work, from taking care of your family, from the world around you? How does that stress affect you? What are your genetic detox pathways? So how do you tolerate and process through toxins? Do you have a liver that produces plenty of glutathione, iron and bile? 

So I always bring it down to this analogy to go remember when you’re back in college and you had that one friend, that one beer the next day, they paid for it, they were going to be hung over and feel horrible. And then you had that buddy that was like, I’m going to put on a 30 pack, three nights in a row and I’m going to show up on Monday to class and aced the tests like, no. Then there’s just differences in our bodies. And if you actually look at the genetics, so I’m not a huge, huge fan of the epigenetic testing, but there are some things that I can see within that. I believe Dr. Ben Lynch in his book, he said, you know, back in nomadic times, you just saying you live out in the you know, the jungle and you’re in a tribe and there’s there’s ten of you. Well, one of you is the canary in the coal mine. You go drink from the river, you get sick, you vomit, you tell everybody else, don’t go there. And everybody else knows you’re the sensitive one. So they’re like, Oh, something must be off, you know? But because you’re a sensitive one, you have a quick reaction so it doesn’t have enough time to build up in you. Then you have the person that doesn’t really sleep very deeply. They’re a little more anxious. So they hear that Jaguar coming into the tent. They scream, Oh, well, then the warrior wakes up who’s been sleeping great, wasn’t throwing up, grabs a spear, defends the camp. We all have a different purpose. Genetically. And although nowadays you don’t necessarily need all of those different types because we’re not protecting ourselves in the same way. 

Although I’ll tell you, thank goodness for the Canaries in the coal mine, because they’re the ones that tell me, Oh, the water in Kansas City is garbage where I live, or that product. The recipe was changed after the company got bought and now they added in some things I don’t like, so thank goodness for the canary in the coal mine. I know you don’t feel like you’re a hero out there, but you are. You’re protecting the rest of us from all the toxins in the world. So those are a few of the things. And lastly, there is a genetic predisposition called the dreaded mold gene, HDL Air. And about 25%, the population carries this gene. And those people are much more sensitive to toxins in their environment than the other 75%. So you can look at epigenetics, genetics, stress, intolerance, lifestyle choices. All of those are going to play a role in whether or not a person, a get sick versus person be totally.

Laura Frontiero, FNP-BC

That is such a good breakdown. We all have seen it. Families where one person in the family, even twins where we’ll see one twin is completely healthy, physically fit, just athletic. And the other twin struggles to keep weight off to to have high energy. And they are not probably not processing toxins. Well, it has to do with their genetics. It’s hard for them to maintain a normal weight. I mean, we’ve all seen it. And so this is critical to understand if you have been struggling there is hope, there is a way to detox this out of your body. So let’s talk a little bit about that. If a person has a mold toxicity, what are you going to do to help them recover from this?

Jaban Moore, DC

Well, I’ve got a roadmap that I go down for each client and it just makes me check certain boxes I don’t forget, because there’s so many things that we have to go on and go and look at. So for a client of the mold, I’m going to go, do you live in a safe place? Is the environment that you’re living in safe? So we’re going to make sure that if you have mold in your body, we check for where you live and where you’re working. Is this safe at a client right now who is working in a police station that is horribly toxic? She’s trying to figure out how to get them to listen to her, not having very much luck, unfortunately. So we put a little air filter in her workplace and they sure take care of it at home so that we can do the best we can in that situation, but make sure safe, also nontoxic products, clean water, clean food, because when you’re dealing with mold, yes, that is maybe your focus. But if you take away other stressors, it gives your body the strength to deal more with the mold. We have to reset your nervous system. When you are living in mold, it is as if people are in war zones because the body, every breath you take is toxic. Every breath you take is set in your nervous system that you’re in danger. And it’s alerting you because you’re anxious, you’re paranoid, you’re irritable, you’re not going to sleep well. You have cortisol spikes, your gaining weight because your body is now unable to clear all those talks and you have skin rash. All these symptoms we’ve talked about are going off and that’s your nervous system. So I put people in a limbic and somatic retraining. One of the programs I like to use is called Primal Trust. And then from there we take another step and we go into the actual protocol piece. So within and I mentioned organic acid test a couple of times today, but I also use hair testing and blood testing. 

Within the testing you can see is this person absorbing and using B12 have they been stressed so long that they’ve depleted a lot of nutrients? Because when your body get stressed out, you start to release adrenal hormones, which allows for your body to get into that status, fight that state of fight or flight where you can use more energy. You’re in that adrenaline mode, right? So we’re like, all right, we’re going to defend except for in mode. What are you defending against your body? Doesn’t know where to go. So then it just keeps you in this state of overuse of minerals and you deplete. So I see low potassium, I see low sodium. This is that autonomic dysregulation. So your autonomic nervous system becomes off and you end up with pots and these other types of diagnosis. So for those people I make sure to replenish the missing nutrients, but that’s for a short period of time because too often I run into clients who are on 40 nutrients and there’s no endgame. So for me, it’s let me give you something to replace depletion while giving you something for drainage and giving you external therapies to casserole packs, dry brushing, vibration plate, coffee enemas so that we can get the toxins out. And then as those toxins are coming out, your body starts to get stronger. So you don’t need as many nutrients because your body isn’t releasing them as quickly, there’s not as stressed. And then finally within that, if you have mold, the biggest thing is there’s more doctors and then there’s Lyme doctors and then there’s parasite doctors. And you have to realize if you have one of those things, your immune system is probably not quite what it’s supposed to be. And I’ll think about that.

Laura Frontiero, FNP-BC

Also, chances are you don’t just have one of those things because as we know, your parasites and your Lyme and they like to live in community with toxins including mold, toxins and heavy metals and environmental toxins. So chances are you’re not dealing just one thing, right? Or even.

Jaban Moore, DC

Exactly. I mean, it’s like a garden, right? If a rabbit goes and borrows a hole under that one, rabbit gets in. And if that hole is big enough for a dog, a cat or whatever else, you’re going have all kinds of rodents in there. Mice, who knows? It’s because it opens up the door. So mold opens the door. Everything else that you come in contact with is coming in. So then. Then you have to unload those pieces and don’t feel overwhelmed. You’re hearing this, by the way, because it can be done. And when you do the right testing and work with the right practitioner, you’re going to be able to get a roadmap to your health. And it within my roadmap, I put all of these things in there and I’m like, here’s we’re going to start at the top and we’re going to go one by one until we reach the bottom and we get to the bottom. Guess what? I put their diagnosis down there. I’m like, you are high cortisol, estrogen dominant, your autoimmune product panel is positive. You have hypothyroidism. Like when we get to the bottom, these things are going to go away and we’re going to be better, both from a lab perspective, but most importantly, from a symptomatic perspective. 

I don’t just want to change your papers. I want to change your life so that you can go back to living in the way that you want to live. Because, I mean, you can’t hear me. I’m pretty vibrant with the way I talk about this because I’m passionate. I love our energy and I want everyone else to be able to be on that same bandwidth because it’s like, Oh, it’s a lot more fun with the people around. You’re having a good time. I love it when a client comes in, gives me a hug or a high five and we’re like, Hey, this, this is this is good. I just talked to a guy on the phone that he’s 25 years old, a six foot four. He was an athlete, and he could barely function. And he was so anxious and wore out and his ribs were kept coming out of place and people just said, oh, you played football. That must just be, you know, like I hadn’t had a few times and, you know, knocked some ribs out. That’s just that. And a year later, I’m talking to him and he’s like, I’m good. I’m 25 again. I didn’t get to get my high five because he’s from another part of the country, but I should get high five. I have to jump to do it. I’m only 510.

Laura Frontiero, FNP-BC

So virtual high five. Yeah. So given, I think, what I want to share here too, I just want to insert that your mold exposure could have occurred 20 years ago, 30 years ago, and those mycotoxins can still be in your body. And I want to share my personal story with this. When I was in college my freshman year, all I wanted to do was sleep. I was so tired that I slept all the time. I could barely wake up and I was on academic probation and consequently I had to retake a whole bunch of classes. After my freshman year of college. And it took me extra time to get my bachelor’s degree. And I spent the next 30 years of my life or 25 years of my life beating myself up for being not smart enough less than. And when I finally did mold toxin testing, I had mycotoxins and mycotoxins in my system and I know exactly now that I know what I know, I know exactly. When I was exposed to these, I was about 18 and 19 years old. There was three massive exposures at that time and it took me a couple of years to work that enough for my immune system, to work that enough out of my system. And not only did I want to sleep all the time, I was sick all the time. I was in the health center at school. I went on round after round after round of antibiotics and eventually had my tonsils out at age 21, which was brutal because I had so many respiratory infections. And of course, that’s what the Western medicine model thought was best, as I just want to share that, that you might have had this for a very long time. And when you start putting the dots together, you have this aha moment of, Oh, that’s what that was. That’s why I felt like that crazy.

Jaban Moore, DC

Yeah, I actually did the same thing for myself. I, I treated for Lyme and then I was on a podcast and somebody was like, well, you know, you talk about you have to be vulnerable for Lyme to really take hold. And I wasn’t thinking about it. I was actually living in a basement in college. I remember the mold actually growing up the wall like six or eight inches because I was in this basement. It would flood, I would push it back to the drain. I didn’t care. I was like, it’s cheap to live here. Yeah. And that’s where it began for me as far as allowing my system to get broken down. Because on the flip side, I’m, I’m not the canary in the coal mine by typical genetics. I’m not the worrier by typical genetics. I’m more on the warrior side, high energy. So something had to take me down. I looked back and I lived down there for a few years. No wonder it knocked me down. And once I got past it, you know, admitting things I don’t like to admit on a health talk, but I was not the one beer got hung over person. I was the other end of it where I don’t know what a hangover was. Right. 

And, you know, it’s just one of those things are like what took me down and I put that to my clients now. So every time I’m talking to somebody, I’m going, what led to where you are today? And so often I was on a call with a guy a couple of days ago and he was like, Yeah, everything just really bottomed out about 15 years ago. 10 minutes later in our conversation, I was like, So what happened that knocked you down? What really caused this flare? You couldn’t tell me. And then he kept going on. He’s like, you know, I got divorced about 27 and I’m thinking back in my head and I was 15 years ago, I go, did this? Is that when this happened? He’s like, Oh, yeah. I was like, How stressful at the time was that like and where are you sleeping? Where are you eating? Is like, you know, and it’s like, okay. So for him it was an emotional distress. But I always look back at like what led to this point so that we can either undo it, guard against it, and then of course, don’t let it happen again so we can repair the body and keep it well. So for him, it’s like, you know, don’t get so stressed out that you don’t eat and you don’t sleep for six months. Not that you have control over that, but hey, let’s do some limbic retraining now for your nervous system. So we make sure that there’s nothing left over today because some of his symptoms are major anxiety.

Laura Frontiero, FNP-BC

Which is one of the symptoms this has been such an enlightening, useful talk for our viewers. Jason, where can we find you? I mentioned you have a very prolific, active Instagram, but where else? And what is your Instagram handle and where can we find you?

Jaban Moore, DC

So I have picked up Instagram, Facebook, YouTube website and they’re all Dr. Jason spelled Jacob and more so Dr. J. More. And we put out free information constantly because I searched for a couple of years trying to figure out how to get well for Lyme. So it is my mission to just let people know that there’s a chance to heal and some things to look for because we all deserve to be healthy. It may not be easy or immediate. She deserved at least have a chance.

Laura Frontiero, FNP-BC

Absolutely. My goal in producing this summit is that you, the viewer, find your practitioners here, that you find the people that resonate with you and that you find the missing pieces in your care. And also to remind you that functional and integrative medicine is a higher standard of care than Western medicine. This is a higher standard of care, and oftentimes it is not covered by insurance and it is an investment in your health and your time to take these steps and get well. So find your people, invest in yourself and solve these problems. You can find a wealth of information. Dr. Gibbins website. You can find a wealth of information at mine. Laura from TerraCom If you go to the trusted partners portion of my website, you’ll even find where to do mold testing amino lyrics. We don’t have time on this talk to talk about it, but I know that you use it to Jason. I mean, politics is a great home test, Army home testing. I mean, there are some great resources out there. So any final last word, Steven, before we finish for today.

Jaban Moore, DC

You want to talk about mold. I always got to say this. It can seem overwhelming, especially when you start involving inspectors in the home. But it is worth every ounce of energy you’re going to put into it because your health, it can’t be replaced and mold can be a major, major problem. And it’s just worth the investigation to at least understand what that means for you. And let’s hope it’s not a big deal. But if it is, that could be the key that gives your body the opportunity to heal and gives you your health back.

Laura Frontiero, FNP-BC

Absolutely. Great way to end this talk. Thank you, Jaban. You take care.