Orthopedics, Service, and Building Resilience Beyond Medicine

Podcast Introduction and Guest Welcome 0:00

Welcome to the Doctors Making a Difference podcast, where we help physicians to be empowered with the tools they need to successful in medicine, in finance, and in life. Join us as we highlight doctors and other professionals around the world who are making a difference. to welcome Dr. Chris Hills with us today. Dr Hills, who's given me permission to call him Chris, lives and works in one of the most beautiful parts of world. He has the privilege of being an orthopedic surgeon in Jackson, Wyoming.

Almost everybody's had a chance to visit Teton National Park and Yellowstone and that beautiful part of Chris just lives across the hills from me. I live about two hours away from that area. And if I climb up on the mountain behind my house, I can actually see the Tetons just over the hill. But Chris has lived and worked over there for a number of years. It's great to meet Chris. You're going to find this quite interesting to hear him and his story. Would you mind, Chris, introducing yourself to our audience?

Tell us a little bit more about yourself. Thanks, Peter. A pleasure to be here this morning with you. Thank you for the opportunity. As you said, Chris Hills, we've been in Jackson Hole, Wyoming for 11 years. And prior to that, originally from Arizona, had the opportunity to go to medical school in Arizona. Then we actually took a little bit different route through medicine and joined the military and trained through the army in orthopedics. The army took us to Washington state, Georgia, spent some time in North Carolina, a expense paid trip to the Middle East during our time in the military and a little deployment to Afghanistan for a time.

And then ultimately when we got out of the Military, we were able to settle in Jackson, Wyoming. We've been here 11 years now and it's just been a pleasure. It's very fortunate to be able live in this part of country and enjoy the outdoors here. Not just the great scenery, but the people and we really just created a great home here and very thankful for the opportunity to be here.

Chris Hills' Background and Military Training 2:06

It's been great. Well, it's a neat part of the world to practice in. I like how you phrased the all-expense paid trip to the Middle East. That's one way to put it for sure. When you sign up there, they don't talk about those paid vacations to Maybe just sidebar here for a minute. Now that you've done that, your years beyond that and you can look in hindsight, what do you think about the military track? Looking back for getting through medical school and doing it that route, a lot of people contemplate that as an option.

Only certain people do it. I'm curious, What do, you, think, about that experience you had? You know, we have zero regrets in doing that. That route we had in medical. We ended up with three young children. while in medical school, and then they had a fourth shortly thereafter. And just from a comfort standpoint, in terms of finances that worked out well for us, you get a little stipend while you're in the medical and so that helps. Then just in, I knew I wanted to do orthopedics and the military is really the forefront in training in orthopaedics, just most of the things we've learned in General surgery, battlefield medicine has really just come from that.

It's come, from the battlefield. And so, orthopedics is a great training in the military, just from, the environment that you're engulfed in, and just, taking care of the young, active warriors that like to break themselves to their family and their dependents and the retirees. So it's a, great, training facility, particularly in orthopaedics. But I would recommend it for anyone that is considering that route. You have to wear a couple hats when you are in military. You're not just a doctor, you maybe ended up being an administrator or what have you that really gives you skills that you may not know you needed or you're lacking, but ultimately will use in real world experience outside of the military.

So it's a great route to be trained in many different aspects, not in just medicine. Yeah, so it worked out both financially, kind of gave you a stipend to live during that time. You did medical school in Arizona. Was it just the residency that did in the Military? That's correct. And with the military, you have the option of doing a civilian program where they just pay for your schooling, or you can do the Military School. It's called the USIS in Maryland, and that's where you're active duty during military school.

You could go two different routes. We chose the civilian medical school with a scholarship, paid what's call the health profession scholarship program. So that was the route we took. Then you become active-duty while you are in residency and then move forward from there. And then how many years after a completion of residency because it generally there's a service obligation during that time. Did you spend some time with the military after finishing residency or were you completed? So the program that I did was a four year scholarship that paid for the four years of medical school.

So I owe the Military four-years after residency. So for orthopedics, it's a five year residency. So I was five years active duty during residency and then a four year paid back. I did a total of nine years, active-duty service. During that time you worked with the military and after that, once you'd completed all the service, then you were able to relocate to Jackson at the end of that. Is that right? That's correct. And I actually did it a little bit different. Many times you go through residency straight into a fellowship.

worked as a general orthopedic surgeon in the army, got out of the military, and then did a fellowship at Duke University in Spine. And so I did my fellowship after I'd already been a staff, if you will, or attending for four years. So I was a glutton for punishment and had to go back and be a trainee again after being out for 4 years as staff attending in military. But most people listening to this are physicians and it's interesting to talk to people. A lot of people you think it is just going to be this straightforward doing this and this sort of route.

But when you talk with people, most of the people have this route that fits and starts, circuitous. I bet that was a change to go back to being a trainee and trainee salary and all that kind of stuff. How was that? Yeah, it was an adjustment, but not just for myself but also for the staff at Duke University. They were used to someone that really hadn't had an experience of standing on their own and making the decisions on there own. And so it wasn't long before I was running my own OR and they gave me a lot of laxity and a long leash.

So it was really nice. It turned out to be just a great learning experience on both sides. Since that time, Duke has actually been recruiting and wanting to have more providers come in through the military in that fashion, just because I think it's very beneficial in both ends, in terms of productivity. Two is you've gone through training, you really don't know what you don t know until you ve been out there and really worked and gotten in the trenches. And then you realize that a lot of things you did in training you probably would have gained more knowledge had you known how to maybe, what to ask, What mistakes you're going to make or what mistakes to look for.

and then how, to really learn and grow from those experiences. So I think the educational component of already having some experience and going back into that training status. was really expounded the knowledge gained in that period. Yeah. Well, sometimes you don't know how good of information you're getting. I think about that on my own training. Sometimes I would, you work with someone that's a true expert on something. And yet if you are too early in the training, it just all sounds, oh, that sounds nice.

But when you've been doing it for a while and someone with that kind of expertise shows you, your just like mentally right there at that state, ready to learn it. Every single thing they teach you. You're like, yeah, okay, I'm ready for that level and you can take someone's expertise. That's pretty cool. So true.

Orthopedic Practice and Work-Life Balance in Jackson 7:54

Yeah. So you've been in Jackson there for 11 years. Do you do exclusively spine or what's your practice look like? With my background in the military, I still do general orthopedic trauma. I'm still on the general Ortho call list I am on this weekend. And so I'll see anything that comes through the door.I have partners now that specialize in knee and shoulders and hands, and I did all of that in military. But now we really try to stay in our lane of specialties. subspecialty training. And so when I'm on call, if I get a fracture that I know my partner can do better, then I will pass that along.

But if not, I still take care of a lot of general orthopedics, but spine is my focus in elective practice. So you live in one of the most known and renowned recreation areas in the world. Do you have time to go play? That's one the biggest things. Like I live a beautiful area as well. I love it and sometimes you get so busy that I'm like, I'd live this great place but I just pulled 14 days in a row with hardly even seeing, hardly being home. And then it's sometimes hard. So I've been trying to rebalance a little bit so I can enjoy it.

Have you been able to strike a bit of a balance so that you can enjoyed it? I always say I wish I had a little bit more time to get out, and it probably depends on who you ask. If you asked me, probably not enough time. And if you asks my wife, she says I probably get too much. But no, that's one of the things in Jackson, there's definitely a nice work-life balance here. I could be much busier and we've had opportunities to go other places. In fact, I have the opportunity to stay in the Duke system and in Raleigh, North Carolina.

And really, as we evaluated those things, we elected to be here because there is a nice work-life balance. And so I feel I've really been able to take advantage of that opportunity here. That's, I think, why we're going to have just a great tenure here and long-term stay. And I think I shared with you before we hit record, I've been in this area for 14 years. And think that's one of the big reasons I stayed. I have family in the area, which is a huge draw. But the second one is I live in a place where I, uh, you know, 500,000 acres of mountain land in my backyard.

That's just unparalleled. We keep the snowmobiles on the front yard. If you ever spill the gas on a lawn, then I get in trouble the next summer. but I always had this goal to be able to just keep it a pull and ride in winter, to pull the Snowmobile rope and just be up in the hills and it's so cool and that you couldn't get that in most areas and same thing you live in a place where any kind of winter sport, summer sport hiking, backpacking, cycling any of those kind things are just right there at your back door.

I think we probably make a trip up to the Jackson area every month at least in summer because we enjoy backpack and we Enjoy some of the rock climbing, canyoneering, some that kind of stuff, mountain biking. And there's just some really wonderful things that are developed up there in the place where you live. Yeah, that's so true. During the winter, I'm able to go do some backcountry skiing before we start work in morning. So I go out for a couple hours before work and you can shower and be at work on time and great way to start the day.

It's nice to get away at times, but it's always refreshing to come home. I just love coming back into the. to the Jackson Valley here, and yeah, like I said, we're very fortunate to be able to here. And what, the, I guess a lot of the people that listen to this are physicians or right, met residents. What would you tell someone who's on this path and saying, well, kind of want to an orthopedic surgeon, but I don't know that, if I want the lifestyle or it's too busy, or I'm not sure if could handle it, what would say to someone, you've been able figure out a path that works for you, But what you say someone whose on that path?

Well, that's a great question in that, you know, I think there's kind of been a shift in medicine over the last few years where it's just not all head to the, just hitting the grindstone and just pushing until you realize that boy, your, You've missed the great years of life where you can really be out and doing things. And I. That's really been recognized as the work hours have come about through residency and things of that nature. I think that's, we're seeing that more and more in a hospital employed status and things of that nature where we are just trying to get out and have that balance a little bit more.

And so I that is important for people to realize that yeah, you're going to have to put in some time and get through the training. Obviously you have do what you can to make a living, but it's important to really find that balances for resiliency and longevity. You can go in and just really put your head down and push hard. But in terms of burnout, if you don't take the time, the longevity is not going to be there. And I think if we really want to have a sustained career that really lasts decades, you have to find that balance early.

If not, burnout is just going be quite significant and the long jeopardy is going not to there And the other thing I've noticed is you can work harder, you'll earn more money, but ultimately maybe it doesn't matter. Like there's a certain place you need to meet your goals and save for the future and stuff. But if you're working just to save more and more, You're not really going to be happier. And then at the end of it, if When life hits you with things that really matter, you'd never look back and say, I wish I'd worked more or I wished I had spent more hours on call.

It doesn't matter. Like really, when it all shakes out, that is not the stuff that matters in life. Its relationships with your family and the people you love and your co-workers. I think that becomes everything. When it really boils down, it has to be it. Absolutely agree. That is so true. I wanna talk a little bit about this foundation you started. This was a bit vulnerable for you, Chris. I appreciate you being willing to share. Chris lost his son in 2022 in a great loss. It's just been a, it sounds like a real, quite a journey for your and your family and you've been able to start a foundation to help other kids who are going through things.

And again, don't share beyond what you're comfortable sharing, but I hope you'll be willing share that story a litte bit and maybe some lessons along the way for those of us who're listening. Oh, yeah, you bet. I think maybe a little bit of background before I go into the foundation, I've learned in my career, as you mentioned, there's a lot of things that are probably stand out and have greater importance than just the career itself. When I mentioned time in the military and deployment, probably the most challenging yet rewarding things professionally I'll ever do was deployment in Afghanistan and taking care of soldiers there, had the opportunity to work in Uganda with Duke University Outreach.

And those things really highlighted and created memories and just really a value that I would have not had had if I just stayed in a typical track. But so I learned that those outside of, not exclusive to medicine, but part of the medicine track were just really rewarding and beneficial. As you had mentioned, we had just a catastrophic loss in our family a few years ago. With the death of our 20 year old son by suicide, And those type of events are never expected or not always sudden. And obviously it was just a tragedy that really made us think about what is so important in life and how do we assist others that might be going through that.

Ultimately, we felt in honor of our son that trying to help others in that situation would be a great value, but we wanted to try to I don't know, maybe think out of the box a little bit and how to do. We wanted to work with teenagers and try to approach it in a way that hadn't been done before. Particularly with, I think, young men, probably more so young women, but maybe not the case. But they're not going to high school counselors and asking for help. They're there, there are resources for them, they are really just not being used.

And so we're like, boy, how can we really reach out to someone that may not be asking for help or how do we connect with some of these young adults or youth that aren't getting engaged in otherwise. And so one of our passions was just obviously in the outdoors, but in particularly riding dirt bikes. The idea came about to help build mental resiliency through dirt bike riding in the outdoors. And so that was the start of Wide Open Foundation, the Brody Hills Foundation. So with that, we were able to kick it off this year.

February 1st, We had our first event. which was a, we had three professional motorcycle riders provide a 30 kid riding clinic in St. George, Utah on February 1st.

Loss of His Son and the Brody Hills Foundation 17:00

And yeah, here we are. Seven months later, you've had almost 50 youth participate in the foundation. It's really picking up steam and we really feel it has legs and it's going somewhere. any participant at the foundation. Obviously, we get them out on motorcycles and teach them the proper mechanics and safety techniques, but we provide them a mentor to work with. We have a curriculum that we utilize to help them in terms of to build mental resiliency with really three main topics, one of self-care, Just seeking out strong social connections and then working and finding an emotional outlet.

And then, so we really work on things of journaling. We talk about using a gratitude journal, goal settings, setting goals, a service. Just a number of different things to help build mental resiliency. And it's been, the feedback has been phenomenal. We have mentors now in Western Wyoming, Eastern Idaho. we're really getting ready to expand more into Utah. But we look to expanding to Arizona this year. And really to work with collaborating with a number of different organizations, one of which that I'm fortunate to just made a connection with recently called veteran to veterans and they do some formal training for veterans that where you are able to become a coach to help other veterans out.

And the hope is that you can just build these chains of links and just. get professional training, then be able to help return and give back to other veterans. And they've reached out to us and want to collaborate and use that training that is given to veterans to give some professional for our mentors. It's taken a lot of work to get it off the ground, but we really feel that it has legs and potential. I think we're going to make a difference. I think so too. Are the people that have so far participated, are they being referred through like a hospital or through a church organization or how are you finding the young men who are participating in this?

So far it's really been word of mouth where we had a group of boys that started riding with us and before long they're bringing in friends and it has just really grown from there. There have been some personal invites where we've had some parents reach out and say, boy, I think that's something that my child could really take would be beneficial for. For instance, when we had the writing clinics, we just put it out on our website or just some in the industry and we'll just get strangers we haven't met.

For example, in St. George, We had a writer from California, a couple from Utah and one from Colorado that just learned of it through the professionals that were teaching the course, that they put out and let them know that, they were doing that instruction course. And so they took part and then all of a sudden, I was part of that. They learned about the foundation. So it's all different methods. This year, we plan to go locally to the schools in the Jackson and Teton County, Idaho and Wyoming schools and let them know the resources that's available.

And so we're just slowly building it out and as this ripple effect starts to build, I think it's just going to really take effect. Ultimately, our goal is to get the word out into the industry, the motorsports industry. Again, just coming at it from a different angle. And as we feel as that gets out, I think there's going to be a lot of buy-in from industry and as they're influenced through For better or for worse, through their sponsorships of some of these extreme activities that Monster Energy and Red Bull and all these others are involved with, as we get buy-in from industry and it gets out into that type of realm, I think it's just going to blow up.

And we would like to scale it to be able to really go across the country. to where we have vetted mentors that are taking a part in this. And so it just becomes this exponential growth that we really feel can take place in helping out youth in just a different angle that's been taken in the past. Oh, I like it. I liked, like you said, thinking outside the box because not everybody's going to go sit down with a counselor and find that to be one-on-one. And I found working with young men through church groups, the time when you get people the most willing to talk and share is when they're out doing something.

a little bit tired, a bit away from the cell phone, you're going up in the mountains, going on a hike, some kind of high adventure thing. And then you sit around and talk and the walls are broken down and they've built some comradery and then people are willing to share a litte bit. You're getting right at the heart of that with what young man doesn't like dirt bikes. It's a cool way to reach out. Yeah. And there's some reservation with the safety involved, but in dirt bikes may not be everything.

Everybody's ticket, we've had just in this area, white water raft companies that have come to us and say, Hey, do you just let us know how we can take part? And we'd be happy to get a group of kids going down the river. We've heard of the mountain guides, professional mountain guide here said, boy, they'd take a part. So I really feel this thing has potential to just really expand in a lot of different avenues. But ultimately it's getting the youth out there and get them out the outdoors, get him off of their screens and off social media and, and have them make some, just some meaningful connections.

And most importantly, some mentorship because many of them are lacking that one. So I think that's really what's going to make the difference. I. Think so too. I really liked the idea a lot. Do the people when they come for these sessions, is it generally a one-day thing or are they getting instruction prior to the event or do they have to have their own motorcycle? How does it work as far as that goes? At the beginning, we are really sourcing motorcycles wherever we could. Just say about a month ago, We had a new riders clinic and we had eight kids involved that had never ridden motorcycles and our foundation we have two.

a part of the foundation for learning motorcycles. And so we source them from friends and others. Ultimately, our goal is that we have a whole fleet of motorcycles of different varieties and gear for all different sizes and shapes. But we put them through just a very basics course, learn fundamentals. You're typically out in just an open field with no obstacles or hazards, and we make sure they have the fundamentals sound. Then we get them out on the trail and start riding. And then what we've done through the summer is we'd had a couple of these training sessions.

Then we have throughout the Summer, we had weekly rides just on a Tuesday night at six o'clock. We're meeting at this location and we may have five. At one evening, We had almost 20 people out riding. And so then we just open it up to those that want to come out and if they don't have a bike, resource one. Ultimately as it grows, or fortunate here in Jackson, there's a lot of philanthropy and there is what's called Old Bills Foundation. And that's right now during, they call it the giving season.

And so it's a philanthropic organization that gives back to local charities and companies in Jackson, businesses through Jackson co-sponsor. So they match a lot of the funds. We're very fortunate here in this Jackson area to have a philanthropy that really helps in that regard. We were able to get a nice kickstart this year. We got two motorcycles this next year, we hope to add another four to five motorcycles at the foundation and then just keep growing from there. And so it's been really neat to see in short term where it has gone.

But yeah, that's the plan this upcoming year is to have multiple formal writing clinics, but then, just build on it to where we just have a community, if you will, of getting together and just building relationships and camaraderie and support by getting out and writing and having a good time. It's not just all writing, we look to do service and things of that nature. Try to improve the trail systems and just give back in other ways. And another activity we did this year, I rented a van and met, had many others drive down and we took a big group down to the motorcycle races in Salt Lake and had an incredible event.

We had in particular a few boys that weren't ready to get on a bike, but they wanted to go watch the races. After that, their boy, they just had a great time. Their parents said that's the first time they've done something away from their home before. And it was just a great event and it really helped build some confidence in them. And they met some friends and did something new that they hadn't experienced before. That's all it took to crack the shell a little bit. They were two of the eight in our new writer's clinic just this last month.

Little things like that, I think just little of a time, but you're just building confidence and some self-esteem in these youth. I mean, a lot of times that's what's lacking. As they start to catch a bit of that and see that boy, it's It's okay to get out and do something new and hard and challenging. I think it really helps build that confidence that in today's society, a lot of these years are lacking. Perfect. How do you incorporate some of the mentorship into it? Cause there's a lot of camaraderie being built and like you say, barriers break down and people do stuff that's fun.

But you also want to make sure that you're connected with a mentor and that we can talk. It's okay to talk about some the connection and the challenges that people face in that chapter of life. Like we talked before you, we hit record. Everybody has to be a teenager at some point. it's stormy challenging part of your life for lots of people. So I was wondering how that is baked into the foundation and activities you do. Yeah, no, great question. So we currently have six board members on the foundation.

And as we really looked at this, we debated how much of the professional side of mental health do we want to provide, or is it just being a mentor? And we're still working on that. Like I said, We're going to start some professional training with the Veterans to Veterans group this year. But it's really just making sure the youth have someone that they can reach out to and say, boy, They know where to turn to if they have a struggle or a question they can call out to. And then if we need to refer to a professional, if you get something to the point that they need some mental health counseling or professional status, we'll get them connected in that regard.

But nonetheless, just making sure these youth have someone to reach out if if have time of need. We obviously invite them to say, hey, anytime you want to ride, we make sure we have two adults for any individual when we do something like that. But they always know any youth that enters into the foundation, they have someone to reach out to, whether they want learn how to. We do mechanic skills nights where they're just learning how work on. machine or where they want to go ride, or if they just want talk to someone that isn't there for them.

And so that's the big thing that we push is that you're not alone. You already have someone you can reach out to. If you don't have a network at home to do that, the foundation is there. Interesting. I've never heard of anything quite like what you are doing. Like you said, thinking outside the box. I don't know any young man that doesn't enjoy motorsports. Are you having young women participate? Is this primarily focused on young men at this point? No, we have. We had our first event in February in St.

George. we had two females take part. But we're going to have our First Female Only Clinic. So we are in the planning stages of it. And it's going be actually likely this winter.

Mentorship, Expansion, and How to Get Involved 28:30

and we were working out to where we can hopefully use a indoor riding arena, horse or equine arena to be able to do the event, just because that's one thing that we struggle with here in the winter. We may expand out to some snowmobile riding. But nonetheless, we're going to have our first female-only clinic coming up soon. So yeah, it's for all teenagers. And we want to make it exclusive. It's been great. Yeah, but we had two in our in February and they just had a ball and we looked to expand that.

We are working right now on really obtaining a couple female mentors. I think that's going to be very important moving forward. And so we're just close to getting that finalized. So we are really excited to see where that is going in that regard as well. Yeah, my daughter, I have one daughter. She loves snowmobiling. I told you that's what we did a lot in the wintertime. And I think she likes it more than most of my sons. So it's just an interesting way to connect because not everybody's going to have access to motor sports, but you're talking about taking it for not just people who happen to own those things in their home, You're going to have access to some of those machines and teach safety, have that concept of two deep leaderships.

You always have a couple of adults nearby and then you build this network. And hopefully when the storms come, as they inevitably do, they'll have network, a team of people to say, okay, if I don't connect with, I dunno, If I have somebody else to reach out to, this group of people understand it. Do you talk about the Brody Hills Foundation and about your son as part of the, when you reach out to the folks? How do you bake that in when they're first being introduced to it? That is so, for instance, in the writing clinics, we go through all the instruction on motorcycles and spend the day writing.

And then at the end of each session, We have the component of the mental health resiliency training and that we give out a swag bag. A swag back. We'll have just a couple of things about the foundation and B&E and whatnot. Then we gave a gratitude journal. the literature and instruction on the different resiliency tools that I mentioned and go over all those things and talk about them. And then we give them challenges and have them set goals. So each component, when someone comes into the foundation, we get them the baseline of resiliency training.

Then that's something we talk each time. Because boy, there's always break sessions and great opportunities when you're taking a break to just really talk things. And many times you're looking out over a Vista from the top of a mountain point or whatnot. And it's just an incredible experience to be able to connect with those youth and those settings when they're having just time of their life on a dirt bike. So this last week, we just had two boys out that had just gone through the new riders clinic for their third ride out on the trail.

One of them said, boy. I haven't seen this view. He's lived in Jackson his whole life. I've never seen a view like this from this vantage point. And then when we got back at the end of the trail, he goes, I'm not sure I want to get off the dirt bike. But he just had a good time. This is a kid that he's struggling and school's just starting back up, but he has really struggled in school and being able to make connections with friends and whatnot. Here he was out there and he says, if I just want keep going with the other kid he is riding with.

It's at times little, but at other times it's just huge gains when you think of the effect that you can have on one person. So it is really exciting to see, each encounter that we have with a youth that has some component of mental health resiliency training involved. It's neat. It is specific to your circumstance with your son and the foundation. There aren't very many orthopedic surgeons that would start a mental health-based foundation, and I think it's cool. You've drawn back, not only on your personal experience, but with the need to give back and reach out and honor your but also you're a doctor.

You're an orthospine doctor, you do, that's what your day job is, but you also have this broad background in medicine. And I think that it gives you the context to understand and put this forward. It's really a unique thing you are doing. So I applaud what you doing, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, I guess it's kind of a oxymoron as well. That'd be an Orthopedic Surgeon riding dirt bikes, Old habits die hard, but nonetheless, it's something that has really made a difference in my life. And we hope to just share a little bit of that.

Hopefully we can bring that enthusiasm to others and help them, again, have some improvement in their overall quality of life, their resiliency, and that we try to make things a bit better. Oh yeah, some of the best conversations I've had in my whole life are looking over some grand vista on top of a mountain, whether we hiked there or took snowmobiles or went there on four-wheelers or whatever it may be. Like those outdoor spaces are so important for us to interact with. So I love what you're doing.

How do people find out about the foundation, Chris? Where would you turn people if they say, hey, I need this in my life, or one of my kids needs this, that I want to get involved because this sounds amazing. Where do you tell people to go and how can they contact you? Yeah, you bet. So, the website foundation is BrodyHillsFoundation.org. It's B-O-R-D-Y, BrodieHilsFundation on social media. Just search wide open Brodey Hills Foundation. We're on all social medias out there. and their contacts through those entities.

Yeah, so it's pretty easy to find. And yeah, we welcome anyone to get on and learn more about us. We have individual contacts there. If they want to give us a call, they could reach out to me through the website there Now, super helpful. Thank you for taking the time to share this. Any other final words or things you would share with our audience? I think this will be inspirational to people who listen to it. I'm inspired, Chris. It makes me want to go out and do motorsports right now. Like, I gotta go and check it out.

So thank you. doing that. And then thank you for honoring the memory of your son. Obviously a wonderful young man, an impact that you don't want that to go away. I am confident that what you're doing will perpetuate that for years and years to come. So I just honor what your doing. Anything else you would want to share with our audience? Well, I appreciate you having me on and for what's you doing and bringing some of this more to the forefront and getting it out there and see what we can all do to just keep trying to make a difference.

Really appreciate your time. Thanks for tuning into the Doctors Making a Difference podcast. And thank you for what you do to help your patients and your community. Your work truly helps so many people. We produce this content to have the tools you need to stay in medicine and to highlight the amazing work being done by physicians around the world. Please note that while I am a physician and many of the guests on this program are also physicians or other professionals, the discussions on the podcast do not represent my employer or any professional organizations to which I belong.

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