Full Transcript Introduction to Dr. Daniella Dennis 0:01 Welcome to the Startup Physicians podcast where we explore how doctors 0:06 lead healthcare innovation. Please like and follow our show to join our 0:10 community of physicians contributing to meaningful change. 0:15 Hi everyone, welcome back to the Startup Physicians podcast. This is your host 0:19 Dr. Allison Kerin and I am joined today by Dr. Daniela Dennis. Daniela is 0:26 actually in her residency training still, but is a very inspiring story of 0:32 a physician founder who's getting started even early in her training uh 0:36 building out her own startup. So Daniela, thank you so much for joining 0:40 me today. >> Thank you so much for having me. I'm 0:42 excited. So, I know we're kindred spirits in emergency medicine, and I 0:47 know you are still in your residency training, so early in your career, but 0:51 I'd love if you could share a little bit about your journey so far and like your 0:55 your training and what what triggered you to actually decide to start start a 1:00 startup during your intern year. Most people don't think to do that. 1:04 >> Yeah. >> Um and kind of where that's led. 1:06 >> Absolutely. Once again, thank you so much for having me on the podcast. To 1:09 all the listeners, I'm Dianiela. Born and raised in Connecticut. Been here my 1:12 entire life. As you mentioned, I'm in my intern year of emergency medicine 1:16 residency here at the University of Connecticut. And just when I thought 1:19 things couldn't be busier enough, I decided to start a business called Bay 1:21 Scope MD where I'm using AI to hopefully make physician contracts a little bit 1:25 easier for people to understand, really identify key terms, red flags, and also 1:29 build out some salary benchmarking tools for physicians. And it's been an 1:32 interesting journey to this point to be honest. Like it actually happened after 1:35 match day. I was like, "Oh my god, I made it. Like I accepted to my number 1:38 one program. I'm staying. And then I went through this whole rabbit hole of 1:41 like thinking about the future of like, okay, I'm going to get that big paycheck 1:44 one day. Like residency, I'm going to be making money. I'm happy, but I'm like, I 1:47 want that big paycheck one day. And I kind of just went through like a whole 1:50 nerdy like YouTube uh, you know, rabbit hole of like learning more about 1:54 physician contracts. And I realized like this is actually very complex. And then 1:58 I had a couple friends who were ahead of me who were um finishing up residency
The Idea Behind Payscope MD 2:01 training and they're actually talking about like how difficult it actually was 2:03 in terms of reviewing contracts, negotiating and maybe not even fully 2:07 understanding what their contracts were. And then I also heard about some of the 2:10 complications in terms of like even seeking out legal advice, how expensive 2:13 it can be. And so I kind of felt like this was like an interesting kind of 2:17 concept where you know once again this is supposed to be like the biggest 2:20 moment of your life signing your big contract but you're still having all 2:22 these hurdles. And I just started thinking a little bit more about the AI 2:25 tools that are out there. We have chatgbt now claude so many other tools 2:28 where I'm like maybe using AI in a sense like this can maybe bridge the gap and 2:32 that's where the idea of paycope MD came about of like using AI to be more of a 2:36 tool not a replacement of course legal advice but more of a tool for people to 2:39 use to really have some type of element to review their contracts and also have 2:43 some salary benchmarking tools because I think another problem is in terms of 2:46 salary transparency of like how much should you be getting paid and things of 2:50 that nature. So that's what uh Pacecope MD is all about and that's what I've 2:53 been building. >> Absolutely. I think and obviously so 2:55 much has changed with AI even in the past few weeks like they have claude 3:00 coowork now and it's got like legal tools and there's all sorts of things 3:03 that are are really advancing but what you're talking about is also coupling 3:08 that with like a data set of like validated data of like how much should 3:14 the market be demanding and and how much should um you be um asking for with your 3:20 with your contract negotiation. I think that negotiation is something that like 3:24 a lot of doctors don't feel comfortable with and um I think some of it comes 3:29 down to um sometimes imposttor syndrome or just feeling like um you don't have 3:37 like a a a step up or like that you're 3:41 negotiating a lot of times you're negotiating against like a large 3:44 hospital system or someone and they're like nope this is just standard that's 3:46 just what we do. Um, and so I think that what you're doing is very much like it's 3:52 advocacy for doctors. It's a way to help empower them to feel like they they know 3:58 what sort of clauses they should be looking for and they know what they mean 4:01 and they know I I shouldn't include that or I maybe I should ask for more. But I 4:06 am very curious like how the journey like so you start you said you went down 4:10 a YouTube rabbit hole. Is that all it took? 4:13 >> Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, it was just like I just started just googling. I 4:16 just Googled physician contracts and then to be honest when you Google 4:19 physician contracts it actually talks more about on the results page of like 4:22 things to look out for in contracts what people are missing and I realized like 4:25 there's so many articles talking about what's like wrong or things to miss that 4:28 I said oh this is actually a big problem and then I started using YouTube as a 4:32 supplement and there's so many tons of videos of people posting talking about 4:36 the difficulties navigating this world so I think that's what kind of sparked 4:39 the idea in my mind and I think what really confirmed it was when talking to 4:42 my friends who were kind of going through the phase of like yeah like I'm 4:45 reaching out to an attorney, but they're charging me $4,000 to review it or hey, 4:49 like I still don't understand what I what I'm signing or I don't even know 4:52 who to go to if I want to seek legally good advice because like I don't even 4:56 like even for myself, I wouldn't know necessarily off the top of my head of 4:58 like, oh yeah, this is the person you would go to. So, I think that kind of 5:01 confirmed those things and just made me kind of spark the idea a little bit 5:04 more. And then from that standpoint, it was just more of me kind of figuring out 5:07 how to create this into like a time of platform because as mentioned before, I
Building an AI Startup Without a Technical Background 5:10 don't really have a technical or a business background. And so that's when 5:13 I started really leaning into of like, okay, what do I need to learn about to 5:16 even turn this into some form of a prototype. 5:19 >> I hear this a lot from physician founders who are non-technical. Um, and 5:24 by that I mean someone who's never coded before or been part of a development 5:28 team. I certainly would have placed myself in that camp a few years ago, but 5:33 now that I've been on, you know, multiple different tech development 5:37 projects, I I've seen how these teams work. I've seen kind of the the 5:41 processes and and a very very different mindset about work product because in 5:46 the tech space we really want to put out not A+ work but like MVP which is your 5:51 minimum viable product like what is the first thing I can get out there into the 5:56 world to be like testing and getting feedback so that I don't go build some 6:01 A+ product that's solving the wrong problem or won't generate revenue or 6:05 isn't what the market needs. So a very very agile approach. But a lot of 6:09 doctors I talk to they they have an idea of of that you know they have the same 6:13 journey as you that they like see a problem they can envision a potential 6:18 solution and then they think oh but I don't know what to do from there. Do I 6:23 raise money because building tech is expensive? Do I find a technical 6:27 co-founder? Do I try and you know build something on my own or make a prototype? 6:32 I don't even know what to do about the technical side of things. How did you 6:35 approach that? >> Yeah, so I ended up leveraging um AI 6:39 tools and focused on no cold tools. As you mentioned, the MVP is minimal. So 6:44 really trying to focus on just trying to get something out there. And to be 6:46 honest, like even though I technically built out this MVP, one of my biggest 6:49 regret is not putting it out there earlier. As you mentioned, I think it 6:52 was a type A personality of like, well, I need this to be perfect. I need this 6:55 feature, but at the end of the day, it's not about me. It's about what the users 6:58 want. So like, you can think that something's nice, but if they don't like 7:00 it, then that's there's no point of doing it. So once again, I think it's 7:03 important to get it out there. But um to answer your question directly, I use 7:06 Lovable as a tool, which is actually really great in terms of you taking an 7:10 idea and you kind of write out your prompts of what you wanted to do and you 7:13 can be even more technical of different things and elements that you wanted to 7:16 build and it takes your idea in your brain and puts it out there into an 7:20 actual tangible product that people can download, use, search, you can create 7:24 websites off of it. And I know it's not just lovable, there's so many other ones 7:27 that are out there similar to that to where you can use to create platforms 7:30 and products from. So that's the approach that I particularly use in that 7:33 sense. And um I think that the interesting part 7:38 is that you you know the tools are adapting on such 7:43 a rapid manner that you're also um building different approaches within 7:49 your business model of like okay well if AI is going to like all of a sudden turn 7:52 something on overnight that can do a lot of the functionality that I thought I 7:56 was building well how am I still going to make it that my product is the 8:00 business model is very valuable and I think that's where it comes down to IP 8:04 and data and how you're actually pulling these things together. But that that was 8:09 one of my thoughts when you were when you were talking. 8:12 >> No, absolutely. I totally agree too. And I think it also once again like you just 8:14 mentioned like once again continue to iterate based upon user feedback, right? 8:18 This is the importance of like having a prototype out there because what you 8:21 have envisioned in mind may not be what the consumer actually wants. And so you 8:24 might need to go back to the drawing board and be like, "Okay, this is not 8:27 working. I need to add this or maybe this is working. How can I leverage this 8:30 a little bit more?" So, I think you have to be very open-minded to feedback and 8:33 criticism, especially at the MVP stage, especially as you're talking about like 8:36 potentially raising money and so forth. Like, there's no point of raising money 8:39 if you don't even know where you're going to be using it for and where the
Why MVPs and Feedback Matter in Startups 8:42 elements you should be kind of focusing your time on. So, I think that's the 8:45 important aspect of just having something out there to be used. 8:48 >> I feel like when I was in training, I was like the word feedback like just 8:52 like terrified me. I was like, "Oh my god, I don't want feedback. like 8:56 somebody's gonna, you know, tell me I'm doing a bad job or tell me they don't 9:00 like my personality or tell me that I'm too loud or, you know, they're just 9:04 going to criticize me. And that's how I viewed feedback. And then now in the now 9:08 granted, I think I did have some less than ideal ways of like having feedback 9:13 delivered to me. So, I'm sure we've all been there. But when it comes to the 9:17 startup space, it's like that's like what you thrive on. You have to get 9:21 feedback from everyone possible that could have an opinion on your product. 9:25 And obviously you want to do it in a way that's you know if you have some sort of 9:29 IP you obviously need to have like an NDA in place but if if it's actually 9:33 like user feedback product feedback you know if I build you know models for 9:39 clinical models or whatever like you need all the different people that could 9:42 have a opinion on it to say if they think it would work or not because 9:45 that's your likelihood of success. It's are you going to actually be able to see 9:50 the blind spots? And the more people you ask for feedback, the more blind spots 9:54 you're going to be aware of. >> Absolutely. Totally agree. I mean, 9:57 honestly, even when creating the idea, the first thing I did is email uh 10:00 doctors that I knew. So, like I said, I was lucky enough to train at the same 10:04 place I did medical school at. And I actually did a lot of research in a lot 10:07 of different specialties. And so, I leveraged that. I was like, "Hey, I knew 10:10 a neurosurgeon, so I got his perspective on it." Um, because he actually has an 10:14 MBA and also does stuff in the startup world. So, I kind of got his 10:16 perspective. I talked to my program director who's been super supportive of 10:19 me and pretty much handles a lot of our um chiefs and senior contracts and 10:23 reviews them for them. So, I kind of got his perspective. And so, I once again 10:27 just continued to email people and kind of get their perspective as well there 10:29 too. Just once again keep getting feedback of what would be good, what 10:32 would not be good and just once again just trying to get better every single 10:35 time. in that iterative process of what you're describing of like putting an MVP 10:40 out in the market and getting feedback and pivoting. I mean, sometimes you end 10:45 up uh creating value in an area that you weren't expecting or like the actual 10:50 product morphs into something that is more or different than what you were 10:54 originally aiming for. I think a story that I heard recently that demonstrates 10:59 this is I don't know if you're familiar with Slack. I'm sure you are. It's a 11:02 messaging platform and it's very very highly used in the um in the startup 11:08 space. that when that I heard that when that was developed, it was actually they 11:14 were building a video game and they needed like a way to message back and 11:18 forth about the coding and they they built this like kind of side thing app 11:23 as a way to message and stay in touch and and integrate APIs and stuff to be 11:27 able to message about the video game they were building. And that thing 11:32 became the big valuable product. Like that became the platform that ended up 11:37 being the thing that took off and became this multi-billion dollar business. I 11:41 don't even know if they ever built the video game like the first thing that 11:44 they were trying to build. >> I mean, especially at that point, you 11:47 you you found your your money maker at that point. So, you didn't need to have 11:49 to focus on other stuff. But I totally agree. You have to like sometimes be 11:52 able to realize like, oh, like maybe this is what I need to focus more of my 11:56 attention on that you weren't originally thinking. I think the other question 11:59 that I wanted to ask you is that I get a lot of questions from doctors that say 12:04 either well I'm I'm near the end of my career. I'm retired. 12:10 Would there be a space for me in this in this field or I'm at the beginning of my 12:15 career. I'm not experienced. Is there space for me in this field? Um, I think 12:21 that that's um probably some limiting beliefs and particularly when it comes 12:26 to being a trainee and the idea of like are you experienced enough to be giving
Why Early Career Physicians Should Build in Health Tech 12:33 your putting your work out into the world. I think that that's very much a 12:38 limiting belief that can be imposed on us when we're early in our training. And 12:41 I'm curious to hear your thoughts on like what you think about early career 12:45 physicians doing this sort of work. >> I think it's well needed. I think that 12:49 even though yes we're very early on our career you still see a lot of things and 12:53 I think you still as a physician in general whether you're early middle late 12:56 stage you just have so much to really give into the field I think the reason 13:00 that we end up going to the field of medicine and particularly in healthcare 13:03 is because we see a problem like we want to help people we want to take care of 13:06 patients we want to address a problem this is the reason we also pick the 13:09 specialty that we want to go into to attack certain issues right like you're 13:12 in pediatric emergency medicine I'm in more general emergency medicine at this 13:15 time see so many things this is kind of like what sometimes s leverage you to 13:19 create some ideas and I think it's so important and I don't want like 13:22 limitations like well I'm too young or oh I don't have the time to like limit 13:26 me from doing those things because I think there's a lot that you can really 13:29 provide and I think now stepping into like more of this health tech space you 13:33 realize like a lot of the skills that you have a physician trans uh translate 13:36 really well into business right like we know about time management we know about 13:40 have to be efficient we know how to lead teams right at the daily basis of a 13:44 physician you're talking to nurses techs respiratory whatever the case may and 13:48 you start to realize like wait a minute like a lot of this is pretty similar to 13:52 what I do on a daily basis and I always say this all the time is like business 13:56 is not too complicated it's just learning the language right it's just 13:59 like how in medicine we say certain jargon and words that to the everyday 14:03 people won't make any sense but to us would make sense and same thing with 14:06 business when you get into the terminology of cap tables and pivot 14:10 charts and pitch decks these are just terminologies that are used but once you 14:14 got to learn the language and kind of immerse yourself becomes second nature 14:17 and I think That's just once again everything just requires a learning 14:19 curve and I think that's appropriate. But yeah, I don't think like using your 14:23 age, your time, how early or late you're in your career should kind of um stop 14:26 you from getting into what you want to get into. 14:29 And the other thing is that people in industry are just people. Like I 14:33 remember times that in my like early in whether it was like with um what was it 14:40 called when you had like fake patients like practice standardized patients? 14:43 Yes. Oh my gosh, I'd be so nervous. Like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna sit down. 14:47 I'm gonna like practice my history taking or even like in my training, 14:52 there would be times that I would be nervous about going in and talking to 14:56 people about something because it was like kind of different and I didn't know 15:00 the answers. And but then now that I've been practicing for a while, it's just 15:05 like, oh well, it's just, you know, just a patient, like just a parent. And I 15:09 think that when it comes to the space with like tech vendors and venture 15:13 capitalists and you know people who you fundraised for and like all of these 15:19 different types of people that we just as doctors maybe don't have a lot of 15:23 experience talking to people like that. It can be very intimidating and doctors 15:27 could be like, "Oh my gosh, I wouldn't have I wouldn't know how to talk to a 15:30 venture capitalist." And I'm like, I mean, it's just like talking to a human 15:34 because that's what they are. And then I'll bring them with me to like a health 15:37 tech conference. they'll be like, "Oh my god, there's so many people that are all 15:40 looking for doctors as adviserss like and they're just nice, friendly people." 15:45 I don't know. That's just something that's struck me as I've talked to 15:50 different physicians who are maybe hesitant to enter this space is it feels 15:55 really foreign. >> Yeah. Well, I think everything you start 15:58 is going to be pretty scary. Like even for myself, like I'm more introverted at 16:01 nature and I realize in business you can't always be that introverted. You're 16:04 going to have to put yourself out there. But when you do put yourself out there, 16:06 you will be very surprised of like the feedback and the support that you get. 16:10 So for me in terms of like how I've been kind of navigating this space to know 16:13 people is actually through Tik Tok um and put myself out there. I made one Tik 16:16 Tok video talking about Pacecope MD and the amount of physicians that I actually 16:20 ended up connecting with who are now like business mentors for me, people I 16:23 reach out to in terms of tips and advice all because of one video or one LinkedIn 16:27 post that I made and people tagged me into certain things and now I go to 16:31 different events that people um recommended me to. And so once again, 16:33 you'll be surprised by if you don't put yourself out there, you never know what 16:36 you'll be able to get. >> I think people think of it as like, oh 16:39 my gosh, they're probably like really they're like sharks and all this stuff. 16:43 And it's like everybody's just like, in my experience, just a pretty optimistic 16:48 and supportive. Like there's really no one more optimistic than founders 16:51 because you're like, "Oh yeah, I'm going to risk this thing and do this thing 16:54 because I have this creative idea that is definitely going to work. I think 16:57 it's going to work." And I think that there is a space for that that optimism 17:02 and that creativity that we just don't get that in our day-to-day clinical 17:06 work. It's not that, you know, we're not optimistic in our day-to-day. It's just 17:10 it's kind of a more routine. The practice of medicine is not inherently 17:16 creative, which is which is fine. I mean, I think we train to be really 17:20 highly skilled in delivering healthcare, but I think there's something more for 17:25 people who, you know, we all have ideas. It's just a matter of whether or not 17:29 we're gonna we're going to pursue those and chase those down. 17:32 >> 100% agree. Yeah, I I think all of us are creative in our own ways. I think 17:35 it's just finding the mediums and spaces to be able to unlock that and just 17:40 having the space and opportunity to do that. And I think that's the really the 17:42 key driver. It's just feeling as though you have the space to really kind of tap 17:45 into your more creativity. >> Yeah. Um well what advice would you have
Advice for Doctors Who Want to Start Something 17:51 for other physicians whether they're early career or any phase in their 17:55 career who are considering something like this? I would say just get started, 18:00 whatever the case may be. Whether it's just doing your own research on a topic, 18:02 like let's say you have the idea. You know, in business, you hear about the 18:05 whole idea of like market research, like figuring out like, okay, what is my 18:08 competition? Has anything been built like this before? If so, what can I do 18:12 differently? So, even just starting little by little. Um, it was funny. I 18:15 was actually talking to my program director about this. Like, hindsight is 18:18 2020, but I'm like, I wish I came up with a business idea as a medical 18:20 student. Like, as medical students, especially like in my fourth year, like 18:24 you're just so scrappy, you know? Oh, like so many of my friends were like 18:27 doing tutoring services, you know, whether it was doing like cleaning 18:31 services, whatever the case. You're just so scrappy. You just come up with so 18:34 many ideas on the fly to like save money or make money that I'm like, "Wow, like 18:38 I wonder if I would have like tapped into more creativity as a medical 18:41 student. That would have been really cool." And like now the new wave of 18:44 social media and content to where that's becoming a business within itself. Now 18:48 you have the whole term of like med influencers and and it's the reason is 18:52 because like I said you can leverage these things nowadays where I'm like 18:54 yeah like I really wish like I would even got in started earlier and I know 18:57 I'm still early into getting involved into this process. So I love it. Um but 19:01 I think definitely in general like I think just get started and don't let 19:04 like your thoughts or anything kind of impede you from there. 19:08 >> One of the things that I encourage people who are like I have this idea I 19:11 want to pursue it but it's like you're not quitting your job to do this right 19:15 now. I mean, you're like making a Google doc. Like, it's just like it's so low 19:19 risk. It's like there's nothing that could h and maybe you're reaching out on 19:22 LinkedIn and the worst thing that can happen is somebody just like ignores 19:25 your message. >> Yeah. 19:27 >> But the other thing about early career physicians that I think is so great is 19:31 that you're not like seeped in the bureaucracy of like the way things have 19:36 always been. Like you can have this fresh perspective of like coming in and 19:41 being like why would we why would we do it that way? like it's just kind of so 19:45 obvious with fresh eyes that like maybe there's a better way to do this and a 19:49 lot of what we've maybe done forever is archaic and it's it's built into the 19:55 system. It's a systemic thing and sometimes it does take that fresh 19:59 perspective or that brand new perspective to be able to say like hey 20:03 like we could totally do this differently. Yeah, I totally agree and I 20:06 think I I feel like as physicians you hear that statement all the time of like 20:09 why do we do it this way or they get frustrated by the way that they do stuff 20:12 but we never change it because I think we just become so complacent and we kind 20:16 of work within certain protocols certain metrics and we just follow it and 20:20 sometimes don't even question it and I think that's where the creativity taps 20:22 in of like okay like step you know take a step back and be like okay can we do 20:26 this thing better more efficient is there an alternative that we can really 20:30 approach um and I think that's where the best ideas really come from is really 20:33 start to question why things are the way that they are instead of just kind of 20:37 just doing the status quo like you mentioned. 20:40 >> My funny training story is that like I remember being really disillusioned with 20:45 the emergency department as a fellow and I was like we have to do better. Like 20:51 there are all these kids that are not having access to the care that they 20:54 need. there's all these social determinants that are, you know, 20:56 preventing them from getting the care that they need and then they end up here 20:59 in the ER, which is like the worst place to get care for like chronic conditions 21:04 or, you know, preventative care stuff. It's just and I remember when I somebody 21:08 in my program who asked me to share some of my thoughts on like what sort of 21:14 research project I would want to do, I said, you know, I am really interested 21:17 in more population health. um you know, how can we help or even measure or do 21:22 some sort of a study to identify like what are the reasons that kids come into 21:27 the ER for non-emergent reasons like because it's clearly an access problem. 21:31 Um and whether that would be like a you know just like a study approach or you 21:35 know trying to get more information as a first step. He looked at me and said you 21:41 are never going to be able to solve that problem. This is a given in our field 21:47 that you will always have a waiting room full of kids that do not need to be 21:50 here. And I'm afraid you're going to burn out if you put yourself in a place 21:56 where you want to change that cuz it's just never going to change. And I was 22:01 like, okay. He's like, so you really should not be doing research on that 22:05 because it's just literally never going to change. And and quite honestly, like 22:10 that's ridiculous, right? Like I did build a company that like one of our 22:14 biggest metrics is that we have decreased emergency department visits by 22:19 this like drastic amount because we're going way upstream. We're giving more 22:23 resources to families. We're making sure they have what they need to keep their 22:26 child healthy. And it's a systemic thing. It's a population health thing. 22:31 But I just want to encourage physicians who are earlier in their career who have 22:35 big ideas to change something or that you think the system should be 22:39 differently. Like don't let anyone tell you that there's no way you're ever 22:43 going to change that cuz everything is changing. Everything is changing 22:46 constantly. >> Absolutely. All the time is everything 22:50 is changing. I mean on a day-to-day basis like even how we think about AI, 22:53 the way that we think about where we're getting our information from just 22:56 changes drastically on a day-to-day basis. So I think once again it's 22:59 another prime example to like just get started. 23:02 >> Yeah, absolutely. Well, I would love to encourage anyone listening to check out 23:09 the website. It's www.get-paycope.com 23:14 if you are interested in trying out Daniela's uh product. And we will also 23:20 link to her podcast and her LinkedIn in the show notes. But if this was 23:25 inspiring to any of you, if you're thinking about getting involved in an 23:29 advisory capacity or even as a founder, I would really encourage you to check 23:34 out our website at startupf physicians.com. 23:38 We have a number of free resources on there and also a number of programs. So 23:42 we have our foundational launchpad program which is a how you can build 23:46 your advisory practice in 90 days or less. That is a great way to get started 23:50 and get involved and you could get involved in a lot of different concepts 23:54 that way. And for founders, people who have an idea and say like, I really 23:58 think I could do something with this, we have an incubator program that we'll be 24:02 launching this spring to really put a ton of support and guidance and 24:07 resources around physician founders to help you get your product to market. I 24:12 just want to thank you so much, Daniela, for joining me and I am really excited 24:17 to have people check out your product. >> Thank you so much. I appreciate your 24:21 time for having me on the podcast. >> All right, everyone. We'll see you next 24:25 time. Thanks for listening to the Startup Physicians Podcast. This 24:29 community was built for doctors who want to contribute to the future of 24:32 healthcare. We offer support for physicians who are ready to make the 24:36 next step towards building the career they've dreamed of. Visit 24:40 startupfysicians.com to learn more. And if this episode 24:45 resonated with you, share it with another friend who needs to hear it. 24:49 Let's change the future of healthcare together.
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