Full Transcript Introduction 0:01 Welcome to the Startup [music] Physicians podcast where we explore how 0:05 doctors lead healthcare innovation. Please like and follow our show to join 0:10 our community of physicians [music] contributing to meaningful change. 0:16 Hi everyone, welcome back to the Startup [music] Physicians podcast. This is your 0:20 host Dr. Allison Kerman. I [music] know we've spent the last few episodes really 0:25 focusing on physician founders. I wanted to spend some time today to interview a 0:31 good friend of mine, Dr. Mary Parmman, to talk more about the advisory and 0:36 consulting world again. Um, this is something that I've spent a lot of my 0:40 time doing and have obviously designed a number of resources for other clinicians 0:45 who are interested in exploring the advisory route, want to work on 0:49 something on the side, want to get involved in other income streams without 0:54 necessarily jumping off and starting their own company. And I am so excited. 0:57 Mary has such great breadth and depth of expertise in working with health tech 1:03 startups as an adviser and consultant. So Mary, thank you so much for joining 1:06 me today. >> Thank you so much for having me. I love 1:09 I've been loving listening to your podcast and learning from you as well 1:13 and and seeing some similarities in what we do. So, thank you for having me. 1:17 >> Absolutely. Well, I would love if you could start off by sharing a little bit 1:21 about your clinical background and and when you first got started in this 1:26 space. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, I am I'm an OB/GYN
Dr. Mary Parmanu2019s path into health tech consulting 1:30 physician. I'm based out of Northern California and I've been heads down 1:34 practicing for over 20 years. Midco I had a little bit of reflection as I'm 1:40 sure many of us did. I was telling you earlier Allison that at some point I 1:44 realized like hey I have one source of income and that felt midco a bit 1:48 vulnerable. I also had some of those reflections of feeling like I wanted 1:52 something more and new and different and feeling a bit trapped with where I was 1:57 in my work career. So so I set myself on a mission to create some additional 2:02 streams of of income to use my medical degree and my experience in different 2:07 capacities. Um, so I wasn't always doing just the onetoone medicine that I've 2:11 done for so many years, but really be able to extend that broadly and and I 2:16 live and work in Silicon Valley. So really being able to implement some of 2:20 these things in some of these health tech companies that I I realized at that 2:24 point these people had been pitching me their products kind of in clinic for so 2:28 many years and then I realized like hey these need these companies need 2:32 physicians and kind of that clinical insight. So yeah, so I started branching 2:37 out about four years ago in consulting for health tech startups. 2:41 >> That's amazing. I I figured that your geographic location may have had some 2:45 influence on the success you've had, but I think it can be replicable. I I I 2:50 think it might be something that when you when you live in the Bay Area there 2:54 you you might be more connected to the center of that or more it may be more 2:58 obvious to you what the opportunities might be because I hear people that 3:02 they're like well yeah if you live in San Francisco literally everyone you 3:05 know is in a startup or fundraising for a startup or yeah 3:09 >> in the VC cycle but that being said most networking is virtual at this point so I 3:14 think people need to not they don't need to move to Silicon Valley to see the 3:18 opportunities they need to hear stories like yours and and understand how 3:23 building out really a network and your own value proposition and really putting 3:29 yourselves out there and start identifying like who are people that I 3:33 could grow a relationship with and how could I help them? And I'd love to 3:37 revisit something that we were talking about right before we started recording, 3:41 which is just this attitude of how can I how can I serve how can what can I offer 3:47 how can I serve this person? A lot of physicians start to get really nervous 3:51 when you talk about like side gig work and the idea of like selling like oh I 3:56 don't I don't want to sell stuff like but it's not like we're selling 4:00 Tupperware or an MLM scheme or you know something like that. It's it's it's 4:05 forming a relationship. It's finding mutual ways to add value and it's yeah 4:11 really planting a seed and growing a relationship. So when you kind of had 4:16 this shift and you started out doing outreach, what was that like for you? 4:21 Like what types of people were you meeting with? What was your experience? 4:25 How did you find ways to really add value to what they were doing?
How physicians can start meeting startups 4:29 >> Yeah, I initially this was probably midco so it was about four years ago. 4:34 Initially everything was virtual and I you know I had in mind of like okay if I 4:38 s if I feel stuck or trapped like what are the different ways that I could use 4:43 my medical expertise and I actually just started talking or having conversations 4:48 with various usually women's healthcare startups. So a lot of these were 4:52 probably tele medicine companies. I was kind of I think initially exploring like 4:56 well could be could tele medicine doing you know like virtual medical care for 5:01 patients could that be a stepping stone or a bridge to get me to some other step 5:05 like the idea of me doing tele medicine 247 sounded like not so fun because I'm 5:11 I would rather be hands-on I'd rather be in the hospital and like doing things 5:15 than being in clinic all the time so tele medicine kind of felt like clinic 5:19 so but I so I started just talking to these companies though like what would 5:22 be a a bridge that could get me from one place to another to have that like 5:26 flexibility and freedom. And I realized though in talking to a lot of these 5:30 companies like hey I wasn't as much interested in doing tele medicine for 5:34 them as I was to help them roll out something in women's healthcare right 5:38 like maybe they were focused on like who knows weight loss and men's medication 5:44 treatments and therapy algorithms but they didn't have much of a women's 5:47 health arm or they didn't have something specific to like say PCOS or 5:52 endometriosis or something like that. So, you know, honestly, most of my 5:56 conversations in the beginning were just me learning and exploring and seeing 6:00 potentially like what value could I add to those companies, not even taking them 6:05 per se as like interviews as much as just like I just wanted to learn from 6:09 them and I wanted to see where they were at. And then eventually as the world 6:14 started to open up and people were having in-person networking events and 6:19 whatnot, I think those to me are really fun. Like I love to go to these 6:23 conferences and just meet all the people and have all the chats, but not with 6:27 this like intention of like I need to land myself a gig or a job. More so just 6:33 to go and learn like see where they're at with things. And sometimes it's not 6:36 as much about what they can give to me, but what I can offer to them. And and 6:41 not even in a monetary sense, like where are they at in their stage of things. 6:45 And you start to realize with so many of these conversations, like many of these 6:49 founders and innovators are engineers in the background or they were a mom in the 6:53 background and they just had a problem they wanted to solve, but they don't 6:57 have that clinical insight that to us we could do in our sleep, right? So that's 7:02 that's really kind of what led a lot of those conversations and and you know 7:06 many of those things come back around like months and even like years later. 7:11 So it's really fascinating how that like it's just really developing that network 7:15 and having those conversations, building those relationships and that continues 7:20 to like flourish over time. >> I think what you're describing is really 7:24 a discovery process. So we do that with any new concept. So even if the new 7:28 concept is exploring how can I be an adviser, you you do have to do 7:32 discovery. You have to hear a lot of perspectives and start to fit the pieces 7:36 together and and come up with your own understanding of your value proposition. 7:42 What what could you do for them? And then try making offers like even if it's 7:47 do do you do you want any support? are are you do you have a clinical advisory 7:52 board or are you thinking of forming one or do you want any support in your 7:56 clinical model or even you know making connections for people? I think your 8:00 approach is very much aligned with what we would call an an abundance mindset 8:06 where what can I offer? What can I do for you? I I see a lot of people going 8:10 into this with what I would consider a scarcity mindset where they're very very 8:14 worried like I'm going to get taken advantage of. How do I make sure they 8:17 don't, you know, they think that having networking meetings that someone's gonna 8:20 milk them for information and like pull IP out of their brain during a 30 minute 8:26 coffee and and go make a billion dollars. And that's just I just don't 8:30 think that's how it works. Like I just don't think there's anything that I 8:32 could say in a 30-minute meeting that would change the course of someone's 8:35 business. But it could give them evidence that I of the type of 8:40 contribution I can make. So, if I'm really adding value and giving them 8:43 ideas and making connections for them or giving them feedback on their product in 8:48 in an introductory call, it it's almost like a it's again what can I offer you? 8:54 Um, and that helps build relationships and helps get you to a point where
Building an advisory pipeline 8:58 they're interested in coming and pursuing further conversations. 9:02 Yeah. Initially when I I was on a mission initially I was like well not 9:06 that I'm not now but like my I had a goal in mind and it was like you know it 9:11 was like I signed up for the marathon in a sense you know I was like okay I've 9:14 signed up for this I'm going to do the training so I had created a a 9:18 spreadsheet and listed out all the companies that you know like what are 9:22 all the women's health tech companies out there which one of which ones of 9:26 them might be areas of interest that I have and then you know have I had a 9:31 conversation with them did I reach out by email, what's my next follow-up stage 9:35 with them? Even if it was just kind of continuing that conversation, and then 9:39 some of it was like, what role could I potentially play for them? Whether or 9:42 not I'd ever talked to them or I'd had three conversations sometimes, like you 9:47 said, kind of that exploration role in my head was really helping me shape all 9:50 these potential different avenues. And and now what's interesting is I don't 9:55 have like one just role that I do or I don't play just one type of role for 10:00 various companies. I think I still use that concept in what I do now. What I do 10:04 for probably 12 or 13 different companies that I collaborate with. This 10:08 is very different for each each position that I'm in. 10:13 >> Yeah. I mean, I think what is clear is that every single startup or founder 10:21 will have a different need of what the scope is that they might be looking for 10:26 clinically. Um, and we've talked about this in our some of our previous 10:31 podcasts about different like archetypes of the types of work you could do. Maybe 10:35 you are more of a interest in helping them with their clinical research or 10:39 helping them with getting their message out or helping them to, you know, pitch 10:42 to payers or things like that. So, sometimes it takes trying on a few of 10:47 those different things to decide if it's even what you like to do or what you're 10:52 good at. Mhm. >> I don't know about you, but when I first 10:54 started doing it, I definitely took on several roles where I was kind of trying 10:58 out different scopes and realizing, well, this one I'm better at, and this 11:03 one I don't enjoy as much. And and then it helps you get clear about what you 11:09 have to offer for future conversations. >> Yeah, it's so true. I I mean I've 11:14 there's some companies like one company I've been with for over four years now 11:19 and they were a very early startup and they've they've grown and expanded quite 11:22 a bit and so my role there has changed throughout the years but also like I'm 11:27 very invested in them not like financially invested but just like my 11:31 heart is invested in them right so like you know what we got to sometimes take 11:35 out the trash we have to do the things that aren't so fun I get to do finance 11:40 stuff and you know like whatnot that I wouldn't and say is my forte or my 11:45 strong point but this is the mentality of a startup and sometimes somebody has 11:48 to do it so I'll you know put my hands in and do what needs to get done but now 11:53 as I've refined and revised different roles that I'll take on I have learned 11:57 from that and I'll be like hey these are the things that I am probably better at 12:02 these are the things I'm not so great at I can do all of those things but here 12:05 would be my preferences or I'll specifically even line it out in a 12:10 contract of like this is kind of the definition of my role. So, it it's kind 12:15 of to your point like I it's morphed over time. I've learned a lot. I still 12:19 have so much to learn too, you know, like I think that's part of it. 12:22 Sometimes sometimes the, you know, nuts and bolts of what I'm doing day-to-day 12:25 is not always very interesting, but the bigger picture is interesting. Like I'm 12:29 learning how to do the business part of it or how to kind of talk the finance 12:34 part of startups through doing sometimes some of this hard or annoying work that 12:39 doesn't seem very fun. >> Yeah. I I think one of the things that
Defining your consulting offer 12:44 people need to get good at is identifying almost their menu of service 12:50 offerings, even if even if they don't really know what it should be yet. I 12:54 make the analogy that if you walked into a restaurant and they didn't have a 12:58 menu, you wouldn't order anything, right? You'd be like, 13:01 >> "Yes, what am I doing here? Is this sushi or is it ice cream or is it pizza? 13:05 I don't know." Um, and I think that in the startup space, especially for roles 13:10 for adviserss or consultants, like it's not always super clear cut. It's not 13:15 like there's like a they're not super organized, right? They're it's not like 13:19 they have a really clear job description of exactly what they're looking for. 13:22 Like you have to come to them and tell them what they might need from you and 13:26 how you offer it. and and and and there's layers like it could be as 13:31 simple as like one of one of the things I always offer is like oh we could just 13:34 you know be a network connection if there's anyone I can connect you with 13:38 let me know that is not necessarily a paid engagement that's kind of like a 13:41 free opt out like we're not ready for someone right right now but it's a way 13:45 to keep the relationship going versus we could do a project together here are 13:49 some things that you've been talking about in your goals or in your strategy 13:52 or in the the challenges that you're having that I think I could probably 13:56 contribute to in a shortterm, you know, feebased capacity. And and you and I 14:02 talked about shorter term introductory engagements for just a couple months, 14:07 something to kind of test the waters, see if you're both working well together 14:12 versus like growing into a longer term retainerbased role. So I I'd love to 14:18 hear your thoughts on, you know, the engagement approach. And um it sounds 14:23 like you have some clients that again you've been serving for many years. I 14:28 also am in some pretty more more stable retainerbased contracts with clients 14:32 that I'm on a longer term path with. But how do you approach kind of the 14:37 introductory of the engagement? Yeah, I I would say initially when I was
Compensation, retainers, equity, and project work 14:43 approaching this again on a mission to kind of diversify what I was doing, I I 14:48 was open to whatever and I wasn't as worried as much worried about like how 14:52 much they were going to pay me as much as I were was wanting to make sure I got 14:56 some experience under my belt. So my initial conversations are probably a bit 15:00 different than they are right now. But in the beginning even I was like again 15:04 one of my goals to was to diversify my income. So, I was like, "Whatever I do, 15:08 even if they're going to pay me $5 an hour plus some equity, I was like, let's 15:12 consider that, you know, thankfully it worked out better than that." So, it 15:16 wasn't that, but it was, you know, it was probably a com a combination of some 15:21 equity mixed with um some hourly pay in the beginning. Now I primarily try and 15:26 front with more uh retainer based compensation methods because what I 15:31 realized at at this point and I want to continue to emphasize this going forward 15:36 is I am providing them not with my time but with the value right like I had one 15:42 company that I worked with that you know in a matter of two hours I think I saved 15:47 them three years of unnecessary research and millions of dollars because they 15:52 were going the wrong direction and that's probably hard news to to deliver 15:56 at times, but that was very much worth my time or sorry, very much worth my 16:01 value to them and it was a retainerbased contract and I felt like, you know, if 16:05 you were just looking at an hourly rate, I did really well for that company. But, 16:10 but if you were looking at the value, I provided very high value for them. So, I 16:15 think it's kind of keeping that mindset as you go forward. Now, every company, 16:19 like you mentioned, they might be at a different stage in their startup 16:23 capacity. So, a lot of these startups early on are probably more equityheavy 16:26 and they don't have as much cash to dole out, but you can bake that into an 16:30 agreement of like, okay, let's start out at this for the next two, three months 16:35 and then let's reassess at that juncture. Um, I think the other thing I 16:38 like to do is consider when that company gets to the next stage in their funding 16:42 round that we are renegotiating what that compensation model looks like. That 16:47 is always the approach that I suggest people take because these are inherently 16:52 growing companies, right? They might not have cash right now when they're meeting 16:56 you and maybe you're starting something small for them, but if you can ride that 17:01 wave with them to their next fund raise, then then that should convert over to a 17:07 a paid compensated role. And those are all things you can address with the way 17:11 you set up your agreements. I personally don't really do hourly contracting for 17:17 the same reason as you. I I don't like the idea of like trading time for money 17:22 or or that my contribution is based on the number of minutes that I spend doing 17:27 something because it's not. I think that especially even as I even learn more 17:32 about AI models and how I can make my work even more impactful, more valuable, 17:37 more efficient, it really has very little to do with how much time I spend 17:41 on something and more about the the resources I bring, the network I bring, 17:47 the strategy that I bring, the the past experiences that I can share, the the 17:52 way I can help them win over their board meeting or their investors. All of those 17:56 things are really have very little to do with how many minutes or hours I'm 17:59 spending. But that being said, some companies it's like hard for them to 18:04 stomach the idea of like getting a reta like a retainer. It's like hiring a 18:09 part-time employee. And so project based work can be a really great way to start 18:13 if you can really deeply align on a scope of here is something that like we 18:18 know you need, you know, you're gonna pay for it in some capacity. I could 18:24 take it off your hands and and that that that's like an investment in on your 18:28 part too. So you are getting some amount of a you know a fee for the project that 18:33 you've kind of calculated out like this will come back to them you know with a 18:38 good ROI and maybe maybe it's your investment but you said something 18:42 earlier about like you want the experience you want the relationship you 18:45 want the starting point you don't necessarily have to have the starting 18:48 point be the most profitable >> side of things. Yeah. 18:52 >> And especially if you've never done it before, I actually encourage people to 18:56 maybe even take on an unpaid contract for three months, like an internship to 19:01 say, "Hey, I'm trying to get experience in this field. I want to spend time with 19:06 exposure to the the investment banking team or to a product team or to, you 19:10 know, how a startup approaches fundraising. And in exchange, I'm happy 19:15 to provide strategic clinical guidance for three months." 19:18 and and you get experience and something you can refer to when you're talking to 19:24 other future clients. You get hopefully someone who could be a reference for you 19:28 and then hopefully they also might want to grow that role with you. So, I think 19:33 experience, you know, we have to recognize that like you're going to feel 19:36 like an intern all over again. Nobody's going to be paying you 10k a month off 19:40 the bat when you've never ever done it before, but that could be a very 19:45 reasonable goal for even just after your first couple engagements. 19:49 >> Yeah, and I was going to add to that. I I mean, still to this day, I'll take on 19:53 hourly roles of different things, especially if it's some an area that I 19:58 want to learn or explore more, right? So I like in a sense and this might be 20:03 helpful to some of your listeners. I set myself a base pay rate of like okay I 20:07 won't go below this for an hourly rate and it's not it's not crazy but it's 20:11 just to be like for me in my comparison world it's what do I get paid if I were 20:16 to do a hospitalist based work and kind of set that as my like that's my floor. 20:21 But like for example, I have a few things that uh that are really 20:24 interesting to me where I have a lot of learning to do say in kind of like the 20:28 AI space of um tech where you know I wasn't none of us were trained on that 20:33 back in the day because AI didn't exist way back when I was you know in training 20:37 and nor did exist of AI and healthcare at that point right so there are some 20:42 things where I'll take on roles say with some of these big tech giants at an 20:46 hourly rate because I one I want to be a part of that project you know like I I 20:51 love this concept that we as physicians can help shape the future of the world 20:56 and some of these big tech companies are looking to do that in healthcare as 21:00 well. Right? So I will take on some hourly projects and what I would say is 21:04 the work in it of itself is not all that exciting but the global mission of it is 21:10 and also just my ability to kind of be able to be working behind the scenes and 21:15 seeing what some of these folks are doing and what knowing like from a 21:18 medical perspective like what are some of the safety checks and balances that 21:22 AI is using and how can we be part of that. That to me is really important. I 21:26 think that when it comes to hourly rates, you know, there's this tension
Knowing your value and your buyer 21:31 between like know your value and know your audience, right? So, I think that 21:36 some doctors maybe have some experience being a consultant more or more in like 21:42 a expert witness capacity and just knowing who is the person paying for 21:46 this. Like if you're an expert witness, it is like a law firm that's expecting a 21:51 big payout from a case. They do not have price sensitivity. Of course, people are 21:56 putting rates of like $700,000 more per hour as an expert witness. And 22:02 maybe if you are in even some of the the expert networks and if you have a really 22:08 specific skill set and somebody might come to you for like a discreet amount 22:12 of time for doing discovery on a you know a concept that they might pay a 22:17 higher rate. But in general, when you're talking about these companies, like they 22:23 do have price sensitivity. I think setting your rate around what your like 22:27 hourly clinical rate would be is reasonable, especially if you really 22:32 what you want is exposure. You want experience, you want to have the 22:38 visibility into this sort of work. I just see people who their their process 22:45 breaks down because they make a relationship and then they have some 22:48 sort of ridiculous hourly demand. They don't realize that like that's totally 22:53 out of line for this type of a buyer. >> And so I think u your approach is 23:00 definitely a lot more open to actually expanding a a pipeline of opportunities. 23:06 You'll have more things that land if you're willing to kind of start at a 23:10 lower hourly rate and grow with it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I I mean, 23:15 and I have some things where I in my mind, it's not like in an official like 23:19 I've signed up for a mentorship with soand so, but I have some things where I 23:24 just donate my time because I am learning tremendous value from those 23:28 companies or those individuals. So, you know, I think it's you I what I did a 23:33 year and a half ago, and I don't know if I went into this early on, but about a 23:36 year and a half ago, I resigned from my full-time practice. And so, now I 23:39 practice on the side. So, I'm about 80% health tech consulting and 20% 23:43 practicing. But what I realized in that too was like I still have so much to 23:47 learn. So, in those relationships that are so tremendously valuable to me, like 23:52 yes, they are learning from me, but I'm learning so much from them and that's 23:56 going to help me continue to grow and expand my network. So, um, you know, you 23:59 I kind of factor that into what how I lay things out. 24:04 >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, the value. You're exactly right. 24:07 >> I think there's also a facet of this that I I too donate some of my time. I 24:14 mean, there are causes or concepts that like I just am very drawn to or I really 24:20 believe in the founder or or it's like policy work that is uncompensated, but 24:26 it's a mission that I care about. And so I think that's what's so nice about 24:30 being your own kind of free agent is you can have a different approach to 24:37 different types of agreements. So I I can donate time to one cause. I can 24:42 create kind of an entry project for another new client that's kind of a low 24:48 like low barrier to entry. Um, and then with the goal of, you know, as they 24:53 fundra and they get their first round and they really do need someone to help 24:57 them deliver like that, you will convert over to a stable retainerbased contract 25:01 with really clear scope and goals, but it it requires a pretty robust pipeline 25:06 which I think physicians are not really well trained in developing this sort of 25:11 like a networking pipeline. And so two of the things that I think you have to 25:16 have, one is a understanding of what the value is that you bring, which you 25:19 talked a lot about doing discovery and having a lot of different experiences as 25:22 you hone in on what is my value. And I have a whole process that I walk people 25:27 through to identify what skills sets will be transferable, what sorts of 25:32 areas you're interested in, what problems you want to solve, what's the 25:36 archetype of the sort of work you want to do. How do we actually find companies 25:39 like that and create a value proposition? And then an outreach 25:43 strategy. I mean, I don't know about you, I use LinkedIn and conferences as 25:46 like my core way of networking. But you know that's one of the things I've been 25:51 trying to do is develop tools for physicians to take where they are now 25:56 where they have no exposure to this world. Get a clear understanding of what 26:00 they can offer and have a clear understanding of and these are the 26:04 people I could offer it to whether it's startups or at the venture firm level 26:09 because a lot of firms like I mean even in in your area man women's health is 26:12 just blowing up. there are whole firms their entire portfolio might be focused 26:17 on women's health and then if you're cons it's almost like consulting at the 26:21 umbrella level as opposed to the portfolio company level so yeah those 26:26 are just some thoughts I'm having >> or even networking at that umbrella 26:30 level right a lot of the conversations I have with VCs and VCs that are you know 26:35 really focused on women's health is talking about you know like I listen to 26:39 a million pitches of different startups with companies But also like those then 26:45 those VCs are also providing references or referrals for me. You know, they're 26:49 like, "Hey, have you talked to so and so?" And that's where, you know, I've 26:52 gotten several product projects just out of them like, "I think there's somebody 26:57 that might need your help type of thing." So, it's not always that the VC 27:01 that you're talking to wants to pay you directly. sometimes they can connect you 27:05 with a project or a collaboration that is a win-win because if I can make um 27:10 this company do well then that helps the VC's bottom dollar as well 27:15 >> for sure. So, I would love to see if you have any particular advice for um people
Practical first steps for physicians 27:23 that are more in a traditional setting, maybe have never met a single VC, they 27:28 don't live in Silicon Valley, they don't know anyone in health tech, they are 27:32 like you in that they don't want to always be relying on one source of 27:37 income and they want to expand their contribution. What would you say would 27:42 be some tangible steps that someone like that could take to explore this 27:46 opportunity? >> Yeah, I think one of the the lowest 27:50 hanging fruit or the easiest thing with low barrier to entry is to go to your 27:55 local specialty conference. For me, that's American College of Obstetrics 27:58 and Gynecology, right? And if you go to the what is it, the fair that they have, 28:03 right? They all >> Yeah, the exhibit hall. Exactly. with 28:06 all the booths, like just go booth to booth and see what some of these 28:10 companies are doing. And you you start to realize and again, you're just there 28:13 to learn. But you realize like most of these are startups in some capacity, 28:18 right? And and some are not startups. Some are very well, you know, like 28:22 they've got the train moving, but they still might need medical help. But just 28:26 go booth to booth and start meeting people and having conversations and 28:30 using that as kind of that exploration field. And then, you know, every day at 28:34 the end of your exhibit hall wandering, then create your spreadsheet. Be like, 28:39 "What companies did I meet? Who did I talk to? Who can I follow up with?" And 28:43 not always, again, not not always like looking for that job, but just to be 28:46 like, "Hey, that was a great conversation. Thank you so much." You 28:50 know, and like keep kind of a a running spreadsheet of those things. And also 28:54 like even if they're not looking for somebody, just put your own thoughts in 28:57 there like okay, what would a company like this do with a physician or do they 29:02 have physicians that they're already working with and what do those 29:06 physicians do? And that's a very normal fine, you know, not salesy conversation 29:11 or even question asking some of those conversations. So I think that's 29:15 probably like a very easy starting point. Most of us have been to our, you 29:20 know, our ACOG version of your specialty type of thing. And then I I mean the 29:24 other thing that is available to all of us, you can use your AI of choice to 29:29 just be like, hey, for me it's like what are all of the women's health tech 29:32 startups that are out there and maybe like make a list of all the subjects 29:36 you'd be interested in, you know, and like who all doing what in these spaces? 29:40 Create me a spreadsheet and then you can start to just learn, look and learn. And 29:44 so that's another great way just to kind of start exploring what are options out 29:48 there, what are potential different roles. And then I I of course in health 29:53 tech I specifically look at going to health tech conferences every year 29:57 because you're going to see a lot of these startups there as well. It's just 29:59 going to be bigger and broader. It's not going to be like specialty specific. 30:03 >> Absolutely. You actually kind of hit the nail on the head for several of the 30:07 outreach strategies that I teach physicians. So lowanging fruit is also 30:11 LinkedIn cold outreach. I know it sounds scary, but worst that can happen is they 30:16 just don't respond. It's no big deal. We actually have been developing a new uh 30:20 product like a small AI tool for generating your exact playbook for what 30:27 your value proposition could be, what sort of roles you could look for and 30:31 actually an exact playbook for doing outreach and discovery calls and what 30:35 your offer can be. And then also creating a very robust outreach tracker 30:41 for your specific niche, both startups and venture firms with a really clear 30:47 playbook of exactly how you could do an outreach strategy. So that's one thing 30:52 that I would love for people to check out. It's um going to be available on 30:56 our website in the near future. And then like you said, conference outreach, your 31:01 own conference. If you're going to a conference, stop considering yourself 31:04 like a consumer of the products in the exhibit hall and start thinking of 31:08 yourself as an adviser. See if you can walk around like she said, find ways to 31:12 add value or consider how you could add value. And then of course, health tech 31:17 conferences. I just got back from health in Amsterdam last week. I will 31:21 definitely It was great. Yeah, it was it was so amazing. And I think that the 31:26 health conference in Vegas in November is a great opportunity for physicians. 31:31 We will be doing some events there and also have a a discount code for 31:35 physicians. So highly recommend people check check out the health tech 31:40 conferences because like you said that's where all the opportunities are going to 31:44 be all in one place at one time. So I love hearing your approach and your 31:50 journey. It's been so amazing to see your success and even just this great 31:54 story of how you are able to stay clinical on your own terms but now spend 31:58 about 80% of your time consulting for health tech. So thank you so much Mary 32:02 for joining us and for for sharing your perspective and your story. 32:07 >> Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This has been awesome. 32:10 >> All right. Well, if anyone is interested in connecting with Mary, we will put her 32:14 LinkedIn in the show notes and until then I will uh look forward to seeing 32:19 you guys next time. Hi, thanks for listening [music] to the Startup 32:22 Physicians podcast. This community was built for doctors who want to contribute 32:26 to the future of healthcare. We offer support for physicians who are [music] 32:30 ready to make the next step towards building the career they've dreamed of. 32:34 Visit [music] startupphysicians.com to learn more. And if this [music] 32:39 episode resonated with you, share it with another friend who needs to hear 32:43 it. Let's change the future of [music] healthcare together.
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