Full Transcript Introduction to insulin resistance and Rob Barbaro 0:00 All right, everybody. 0:01 Another amazing, maybe the most amazing segment we've done here. 0:05 Reverse Heart Disease Naturally. 0:07 But we're going to shift gears a little to reverse insulin resistance 0:11 naturally, which is a crucial part of reversing heart disease. 0:15 Since some people argue insulin resistance may be the most 0:19 essential root cause of atherosclerosis and narrowing of arteries. 0:23 Others will debate it. 0:24 Certain lipid particles like LDL cholesterol, lipoprotein. 0:28 But let's dive deep with a real hero. 0:32 Some of you know the term biohacker and a person 0:35 that plays around with their health with various techniques. 0:38 Well, Rob barbaro our interview guest right now is not playing around 0:44 because he is experimenting in a way that could end up 0:47 with his own health and health of others, very detrimental or very beneficial 0:52 because to read Robby's bio is so exciting. 0:56 A friend and just watching him blossom, but he is now a master's in public health. 1:01 He went back to school and got a degree. 1:04 His coworker is a PhD from Stanford in nutritional biochemistry. 1:09 And they, as a team, make up what's called mastering diabetes with a New York Times 1:15 bestselling book, of which Rob is coauthor, mastering Diabetes 1:19 The Revolutionary Method to Reverse Insulin Resistance Permanently 1:24 and type 11.52. 1:26 Prediabetes and Gestational Diabetes. 1:28 You may know Rob from Forks Over Knives the years 1:31 that he's spent there working, with Brian Wendel. 1:34 And then, about six, seven years ago, went off on this amazing 1:38 venture of coaching people all over the world. 1:40 Rob, I could keep going. 1:41 I want to stop because we want to get the information. 1:44 Thank you for taking the time and meeting with us for this summit. 1:48 Doctor Kahn, what an amazing introduction. 1:50 Thank you so much. 1:51 I'm honored to be here and can't wait to share some important information 1:54 with your listeners. 1:56 And I just got to share on a personal note, 1:58 I'm not sure it was the first time I met you, but I think it was. 2:00 We walked through the West Hollywood produce market. 2:04 You didn't have a little snack. 2:06 You had a, you know, an entire truck, basically, 2:10 that you were filling up with fresh produce, predominantly fruit. 2:14 You introduced me to Alicia Silverstone at that time. 2:17 And her little son, bear, who's not so little anymore. 2:21 And I was at this Hollywood stuff is great. 2:23 And this Rob is amazing. 2:24 But I want to take a different path. 2:27 Everybody listening? 2:28 Robbie is a type one diabetic. 2:31 From what, age? 12. Right? That's correct. Yes. 2:33 You look like you're 18, but I know you're a little 2:36 behind the scenes at this point. 2:37 So you've been type one diabetic. 2:38 You have to have some insulin exogenous to survive. 2:42 And this can be yeah could be a pump. 2:46 People talk about nasal spray but you have to have your body requires it.
Rob's type 1 diabetes biohacking and high-carb breakfast 2:50 But you've done some real biohacking so that you are on a different path 2:55 than most diabetics. 2:56 Tell us what was your breakfast yesterday a full day yesterday. 3:00 Standard day. Any day. 3:02 Okay, so a full day of eating, right? 3:06 I have to be clear. 3:07 Right now I am training for a full Ironman, 3:11 so that has definitely impacted how much I'm eating to a certain extent. 3:15 But nonetheless, I still eat a large volume of carbohydrates. 3:18 So for breakfast where I right now, will I eat a large volume of carbohydrates? 3:23 Anybody with the American Diabetes Association just fell off their chair. 3:27 So I just wanted to point out you're already biohacking in rare air 3:32 dangerous territory for standard dietitian recommendation to a type one diabetic. 3:37 The please. 3:38 Even though you're training for an Ironman, I thought you look bulked up. 3:42 Tell us what you're doing. 3:44 Yeah, that is correct. 3:45 We will talk about the history, of adding more 3:48 carbohydrate to, a diet for anybody living with diabetes. 3:51 But for my own experimentation, like you're saying here, 3:54 a breakfast will be roughly 225g of total carbohydrate, 3:59 which is for somebody who's following 4:03 a really, really strict ketogenic diet. 4:07 They'll 4:09 that's like, that's more carbohydrate than, like in an entire week. 4:12 But I just had a 25g a day would be a strict ketogenic diet. 4:16 You said 225g of carbohydrate for breakfast. 4:20 That's correct. That's correct. 4:21 That's like. 4:22 And number four calories per gram, per carbohydrate, 4:26 more than a thousand calories 4:28 from carbohydrates for breakfast during this training period. 4:32 Correct. 4:33 And I, I specifically do my training. 4:37 In the morning, so I may that's likely my biggest meal of the day. 4:41 And so I'm actually looking at it right now, for this, 4:44 this morning, it was exactly 225g of carbohydrate. 4:47 It was ten grams of protein, five grams of fat, which was 847 calories. 4:52 For this specific smoothie. 4:54 And what I know I asked you right before we went on, if those are props behind you 4:58 and you pulled produce off the shelf, they're the real deal. 5:03 Tree tomatoes. 5:04 And so this is a sample dia. 5:07 It tastes like a pear baked in brown sugar with cinnamon on top, 5:11 also known as Nespresso. 5:13 So your listeners may be familiar with that. 5:15 This is, a tree tomato, also known as Tamara. 5:18 Oh, it's sweet, and it's a little bit tired. 5:21 It's an incredible combination. 5:24 So to have that ever thinking 225g of carbohydrate. 5:28 Number one, you're not eating donuts, bagels, whole wheat bread. 5:32 You've got these gigantic bowls of fruits and vegetables 5:38 that make up, as you said, about 850 calories for your breakfast. 5:41 But they're the most gorgeous, colorful 5:45 fruit rich. 5:46 I mean, you're not drinking fruit juice and you're not eating refined products. 5:50 Correct. 5:51 Just gigantic amounts of whole fruits. 5:54 Yeah, with some vegetables. 5:56 Let's talk about this. 5:57 So the other important point here is you establish that I'm living with type 6:01 one diabetes and that I must inject exogenous insulin to survive. 6:06 And it's that fact 6:09 which gives me and all the other type ones 6:12 an advantage for assessing what lifestyle behaviors improve 6:17 or worsen insulin sensitivity meal by meal. 6:22 Because I wear a CGM, I wear a continuous glucose monitor, a Dexcom G6. 6:27 I count the carbohydrate I'm consuming, I put it into a chronometer, 6:31 and I know how much insulin is required 6:34 to metabolize the carbohydrate that I'm consuming. 6:38 Whereas somebody like you and most of your listeners, 6:40 you're missing a key data point. 6:43 You can count the carbs you're consuming, you can test your blood glucose, 6:47 but you don't know how much insulin 6:50 your pancreas is secreting on a meal by meal basis. 6:55 The person who is able to create that device that can give, insulin 6:59 levels on a moment by moment basis, like these cgms, 7:02 it's going to be an amazing invention. 7:03 But I ate that 225g of total carbohydrate, 7:08 and I injected five units of no Vlog insulin. 7:12 So that is a very, very high level of insulin sensitivity most people. 7:16 So that's like a 45 to 1 ratio. 7:18 Most people living with type one, 7:20 if we're going to be generous they would be like 15 to 1. 7:23 So you do 225 divided by 45g 7:26 of carbohydrate, five units of insulin. 7:29 So that's the ratio you're coming up. 7:31 That's right, that's right a ratio is very little insulin 7:35 for the amount of carbohydrate. 7:36 And you were about to say a typical diabetic on an Ada 7:41 diet would be if you put them at 15 to 1, that'd be generous. 7:45 So they would need to inject 15 units of insulin for that same meal. 7:48 Okay. 7:49 So and you have basically restored, 7:54 you know, near ideal insulin sensitivity, right. 7:58 You know, the little bit of insulin you inject is going a long way 8:02 where potentially the average American Type one or type two diabetic 8:06 injecting insulin is encountering resistance to the action of insulin. 8:10 Correct? Correct. 8:11 So as a person living with type one diabetes, 8:14 your goal is to inject the same amount of insulin 8:18 your pancreas would have secreted before your beta cells were damaged. 8:23 And that's roughly 25 to 50 units of total insulin per day. 8:28 So on my high carbohydrate diet, where again, on a day 8:31 where I'm very active, I can eat over 900g of total carbohydrate per day. 8:36 I still inject roughly 30 units of total insulin per day
CGM insights: insulin timing, eating pace, greens, and walking 8:41 with that level of consumption, whereas there's published research on people 8:45 living with type one diabetes following a ketogenic diet, who will consume 8:49 30g of carbohydrate per day and still inject 30 units of insulin. 8:54 So the magnitude of difference of the insulin sensitivity 8:58 of, again, 8:59 the approach that, you know, 9:00 we're teaching here at mass for diabetes, low fat plant based whole food nutrition. 9:03 It's not just me. 9:04 This is repeated in client after client or client. 9:07 We happen to end up working with a lot of people who are living 9:10 with insulin dependent diabetes, because both Cyrus and myself, 9:13 the two founders of Mastering Diabetes, were both living with type one. 9:16 But the majority of our clients 9:18 are people living with prediabetes and type two diabetes, 9:21 and they experience the same benefits 9:22 once you reverse insulin resistance for prediabetes and type two, 9:27 you completely eliminate the condition for those people. 9:30 Low fat wholefood plant based diets. 9:33 Again, you said that quickly. 9:34 I want everybody to understand what your sector of the nutrition world is. 9:38 Obviously, we've interviewed doctor Dean Ornish, we've 9:41 interviewed Doctor Caldwell Esselstyn, we've interviewed, 9:44 Juliana Hever and other amazing people and people I've heard over and over. 9:48 But you're the test case. It's what you said. 9:51 A type one diabetic is basically a biohacking experiment 9:55 that is critically important. You get it, right? 9:58 I mean, this is your health. It's your brain cells. 10:00 So it's wonderful. 10:01 Just before we close the chapter, lunch and dinner, 10:05 you know, now, while you're training, just blow us away. 10:07 What you're eating day after day. 10:10 So I do have I have four meals per day. 10:12 So the lunch meal is usually going to be mangos, papaya and arugula. 10:18 That's my go to lunch. 10:19 Happens to your Dexcom six after that unseemly gorgeous tasty meal. 10:25 Yeah I love that you're asking that question. 10:26 This is why this is all so much fun. 10:28 Because you're like, oh, that Ada person 10:30 who here's this just fell out of their chair. 10:31 Well, wait till you hear the Dexcom numbers. 10:33 So I have a time and range consistently above 90%, 10:38 whereas the average person living with type one is roughly 55 to 60%. 10:43 Okay, I'm in range of range. 10:45 Oh glucose. 10:47 Well that's right. 10:48 So for people living with type one diabetes, the agreed upon target 10:52 range is between 70 and 180mg per deciliter. 10:56 Your goal is a person living with type one, or any insulin dependent 10:59 form of diabetes is to stay in that range as much as possible, 11:04 and the goal is to have a minimum of 70% 11:07 of that of time and range, and that could be over any period of time. 11:10 I'm talking about a 90 day average. 11:12 And again, so I'm doing this without an automatic pump. 11:16 So I use multiple daily injections. 11:19 I inject basically for my long acting insulin novella for my short 11:23 acting insulin. 11:23 And I have a Dexcom G6. So those are my tools. 11:26 The people who are using automatic pumps that make decisions for them, 11:30 that they're seeing a higher average, paper published in New England 11:33 Journal of Medicine was upwards of 70% for that category. 11:37 But again, so my my timing range is excellent. 11:40 My 90% you said have that correct 90%. 11:44 Okay. And what if I may ask? 11:46 I know it's your personal medical data, but you share your A1. 11:50 See, people are familiar with hemoglobin A1. C correct. 11:53 Okay. 11:53 Very I absolutely I'm happy to share my personal data. 11:56 I love sharing it. 11:57 So my A1 c is 5.3%. 12:00 And here's what's really important about that. 12:02 That is that's a technically a Non-diabetic A1 C. 12:05 But that when we teach people to come in our program 12:09 for type one, we're trying to have people stay between 5.5 and 6.5. 12:13 That's the target. 12:14 If you have a very low A1, C is a person living with interdependent diabetes. 12:20 It is possible to artificially make that number 12:24 look good by having a lot of low blood glucose readings. 12:28 So if you have a lot of lows that balance out your highs, 12:32 you can come up with a decent average. 12:34 But that's not healthy. Nobody's looking for that. 12:36 So my CGM data, where I have less than 4% of my time 12:41 in real time, being below 70, being 69 or below, that is excellent. 12:46 So if I'm showing that I don't have a 5.3 a1 C because I'm going low all the time, 12:52 I have a 5.3 a1 C because my blood glucose management is terrific. 12:57 What have you altered with wearing a CGM? 13:02 Other than it being this basis to report, have you actually stopped eating a fruit 13:06 or a vegetable because it did spike it consistently? 13:10 I made two big changes because of the CGM. 13:14 Number one, actually, I would say three big changes. 13:17 Number one, I put a lot of emphasis on insulin timing. 13:22 We wrote about this in our book, 13:23 but as a person living with type one, you are taught 13:27 that insulin doesn't work right away and that you should inject before eating. 13:30 That's the basic guideline. 13:32 Is a guy wait 10 or 15 minutes. 13:34 Most people don't really follow it, but until I got the CGM, 13:37 I didn't fully understand how important that was. 13:40 And I learned a lot of nuances because 13:43 meal after meal after meal, you start getting these insights day after day. 13:46 I've been wearing a CGM for well over, think it's been 8 or 9 years now, so, 13:52 what I learned 13:53 is that sometimes, again, as a person living a type one has a lot of nuances. 13:58 Sometimes if your blood glucose was going up 14:02 before injecting the insulin, you're going to have to wait more than 15 minutes, 14:07 because by the time the insulin started working, 14:10 you were a little bit higher than you thought you were. 14:12 So let's say you're starting a meal and you're 14:14 maybe you're like one 2130 or something, and you're slowly creeping up. 14:17 By the time the insulin starts to work, you might be one 4150. 14:21 So you have to wait another 10 or 15 minutes for it to start coming down. 14:24 So I learned how important it was to make sure I was at a blood 14:30 glucose level of 120, and going down before I started eating. 14:35 If you're going to eat a low fat, high carbohydrate meal 14:38 that glucose is going to get in your bloodstream very fast. 14:41 You must have insulin that's working, that's ready to take 14:45 it out of your bloodstream and into your cells. 14:47 You have you're playing a matching game as a person living with type one. 14:50 You're matching your manual insulin injection 14:54 to the carbohydrate you're consuming. 14:56 And that timing is very important. 14:58 So insulin timing became a key key for me for keeping my timing range 15:02 and not seeing again, this has a big mistake. 15:05 People see people make this mistake 15:07 with type one and definitely with type two as well. 15:09 They will eat a meal. 15:10 I'm sure there's many people listening right now being like 15:13 he is just some exception because I've done this. 15:15 I had a bunch of bananas and I saw my blood glucose spike to 200. 15:19 He's crazy. There's. 15:20 And this happens a lot with type ones. 15:22 The insulin timing was completely off. 15:25 And they basically they basically if you I told a type one 15:28 hey look go ahead and eat this banana and and don't take any insulin. 15:32 They'd be like what's going to happen 15:34 while you I'm going to go through the roof okay. 15:36 That's what happens if you inject insulin and you eat. 15:39 It's as if you didn't inject insulin 15:41 because it's not doing anything for at least 10 to 15 minutes. 15:45 What valuable lessons. 15:46 So you're basically like an artificial 15:48 intelligence supercomputer, but just out of years of experience 15:53 that you can teach you believe what you are seeing in your own physiology 15:58 is, you know, you teach this, you coach people to do the same. 16:04 Yeah. 16:04 Okay. So okay. 16:06 I'm sorry you froze there for a second, but you're back. Okay. 16:08 So I gotta tell you the second thing, doctor con. 16:11 Okay. 16:11 The second thing is, I learned how important it is 16:16 to eat slowly, to end, to chew your food. 16:20 Okay, that's number two. 16:21 So how do I see these really nice profiles on my CGM? 16:25 While eating 225g of carbohydrate is when I have that smirk, 16:30 particularly in the morning. 16:31 Okay, and you'll know this from your research in your work, humans 16:34 are more insulin resistant in the morning, 16:37 so that meal in particular you have to eat, slowly. 16:41 So I will consume my smoothie over the course of about 45 minutes. 16:45 I take my time, 16:46 I eat it with a spoon, and that helps keep a consistent, steady bar. 16:50 Glucose number three I make sure to add leafy 16:55 greens or non-starchy vegetables to pretty much every meal. 16:59 And that also helps blunt any blood glucose spike. 17:02 And this is a very important tenet of our method, and how we help people 17:06 who are coming to us in a very, very insulin resistant state 17:11 to eat themselves out of that state in an intelligent way and not see crazy spikes. 17:16 Greens and non-starchy vegetables are very powerful. 17:19 And the fourth thing here, doctor come, is the CGM
Daily meal structure, early dinner, and amla tea 17:22 taught me how impactful walking is. 17:27 I'm controlling blood glucose levels. 17:29 I learned that if I went for a ten, 15, 20 17:32 minute walk after a meal, I would immediately go low. 17:36 I would, I was like, wow, I have to plan if I'm going to go for a meal, 17:40 if I'm gonna go for a walk after a meal, I have to take less insulin 17:43 I have to account for if I'm going to do that, or 17:46 I have to eat a snack before going for the walk. 17:48 Like, again, you're balancing 17:50 these blood glucose lowering activities with the food you're eating. 17:53 And this walking is a very powerful it's 17:56 published very clearly in the research of people living with diabetes. 17:59 Walking is powerful, powerful. 18:01 It doesn't have to be ridiculously strenuous exercise 18:04 to see blood glucose management improvements. 18:07 Crazy useful data. 18:09 Your non-starchy vegetables. 18:11 I imagine your fruits are raw. 18:14 I mean, they're out of the fridge. Ready. 18:15 Your leafy greens are raw. They're uncooked. 18:18 Your starchy vegetables will be an example, 18:20 and they're lightly cooked or steamed or what? 18:23 I usually just keep it raw. 18:24 For simplicity's sake. 18:25 I will have bell peppers. 18:27 I will have zucchini, cucumber, carrots, stuff like that dressing on top. 18:33 So my fruit is usually so ripe and so 18:38 and there's such a great volume of it that the fruit juice becomes the dressing. 18:42 And I do want to address the volume component 18:45 because people will see all the food I'm consuming. 18:48 They'll see these large meals and just like, wow, that's so much food. 18:51 And I like to reframe it and say, no, actually, that's a lot of water. 18:56 The foods that I'm eating are high in their water content, 18:59 and the most pure form of water that you can consume is the water 19:04 that nature has filtered in high water content plants. 19:09 Thank you. 19:10 And I will say, we're not at the end where we're going 19:13 to give all of these credentials to look them up online. 19:16 But his Instagram, mindful diabetic Robby, 19:19 has some of the best videos of Robby eating 19:22 these large bowls of very high carbohydrate complex 19:27 carbohydrate, selected fruits and vegetables, very rich in water. 19:31 You can be at a meal with Robby by just going over 19:35 to mindful diabetic Robby on Instagram. 19:38 They're very educational to me. 19:39 And I, lick my lips over how delicious everything looks. 19:43 So, just to finish up four meals a day. 19:46 Number three. Number four. 19:48 Pretty similar learning nuances there for, So 19:52 number three is going to be another meal that is seasonal fruit. 19:56 So it might include a lot of berries. 19:58 Still might include more papaya more mangoes like those are staples in my diet. 20:03 It could include some 20:04 lunches, like a sweet fruit meal and then and pre-dinner. 20:07 And dinner is more into like acid and sub acid fruit. 20:09 So it could have like grapes in that pre-dinner meal. 20:12 I'm basically just trying to get enough calories in there 20:16 so then I can have a pretty light dinner that's very high in 20:20 greens and non-starchy vegetables and basically finished my day. 20:24 So I'm not eating any food past 7:00. 20:27 That's a that's a good cut off for me. 20:28 Earlier would be even better. 20:30 But again, as a person living with type one diabetes, 20:33 this is a huge, huge learning point. 20:37 If you can thin if you can have 20:39 at least a three hour gap between, when you finish your dinner meal 20:45 and when you go to bed, you will have let your fast acting insulin 20:50 run its course so that that blood glucose reading that you have before 20:55 you go to bed, as long as your basal insulin is on point, 20:59 your chance of staying steady throughout the rest of the evening 21:02 is much more likely. 21:04 Whereas if you're trying to play this game of injecting fast acting insulin 21:07 and having a snack before you go to bed, the digestion 21:10 and how that is metabolized, it just becomes much more complicated 21:14 and your blood glucose control overnight becomes a little bit more stressful. 21:18 And again, for people 21:19 who want to improve their time and range to improve their A1, c controlling 21:23 your blood glucose while you're sleeping is one third of your day. 21:27 That's going to have the biggest impact. 21:29 If you want to, you know, 21:29 pick the lowest hanging fruit, control your blood glucose while you're sleeping. 21:33 Your A1, C will improve, your timing range will improve, 21:36 and starting with an early dinner is a key component to that. 21:39 Okay, odd question maybe, but people are buying 21:43 cinnamon, fenugreek seeds, black cumin, Nogales sativa seeds. 21:48 Have you experimented with any of those 21:50 in your bowl and seeing any difference or it's not worth it. 21:54 You know, the only medicinal plant 21:57 that I've experimented with is amla. 22:00 So Cyrus and I, we actually created a tea to make amla more palatable. 22:05 It's called amla green, and I consume the hibiscus version on a daily basis. 22:10 And so this is a extremely powerful plant. 22:14 They don't really actually know exactly what is happening on a side, 22:17 the level that makes it so effective. 22:19 There's been plenty of research comparing it to, diabetes medications, 22:23 cholesterol lowering medications, 22:24 and this powerful medicinal plant outperforms them in many situations. 22:28 It's incredible. 22:29 Amla berries are literally the most antioxidant rich whole food on the planet. 22:34 The problem is the berries taste terrible. 22:36 So we have taken the powder and put it into a tea and made a powerful 22:40 so you can get all the benefits in the antioxidants. 22:42 So for me, what that has done 22:45 is that has lowered 22:47 my insulin requirement to treat the dawn phenomenon. 22:52 So for everybody living with type one diabetes, they wake up in the morning 22:55 when they start becoming active and getting ready for the day. 22:58 Their liver takes some glucose, puts it in their bloodstream, 23:01 and you have to take a little bit of insulin to cover that. 23:05 And if you don't, you have a lot of blood glucose challenges. 23:08 A lot of people are very confused about that topic. 23:09 But my 23:12 insulin requirement 23:13 to treat the Dawn phenomenon decreases when I'm consistently consuming. 23:17 I've gone with periods of time where I was consistent, 23:19 then I wasn't consistent, and now I learned. 23:21 You know what? I just have to stay consistent. 23:22 So I have that amla green hibiscus in that morning smoothie every day. 23:27 And again, it keeps my dawn phenomenon in check. 23:29 So that's been powerful. 23:31 I would love to experiment with those others, I really should. 23:34 I feel like I'm already so insulin sensitive. 23:35 It's going to be crazy to see what happens with those other, plants. 23:39 But, yeah, that's that's what I've done. 23:41 And I'll back your testimonial. 23:43 I drink, like green.com. 23:45 That's the early anybody can find it at. 23:48 And I like the one mixed with hibiscus. 23:50 So it has both blood sugar and maybe some additional nitric 23:54 oxide blood pressure benefits is delicious. 23:57 It's a powder. 23:58 You know, it's a cup of tea. 23:59 It's a very simple cup of tea. 24:01 It's a very frankly 24:02 inexpensive product for high how how high quality and science back. 24:07 So, thanks for bringing that up. 24:08 So let's shift gears in the last critical maybe ten minutes interview.
History of high-carb diets and insulin sensitivity research 24:13 It, you know, I introduce it. 24:15 This is really, you know, what a fascinating discussion you, let us into your life, 24:22 and what you're doing today and all the lessons. 24:24 But, you know, insulin sensitivity versus insulin resistance. 24:29 Now, you guys have some unbelievably informative videos on mastering 24:33 diabetes.org, or I thought it was. Org. 24:37 Thank you. Mastering diabetes.org. 24:39 And what is insulin resistance. 24:41 But share with us a little bit Gerald Shulman at Yale. 24:45 And why does a low fat diet 24:48 restore insulin sensitivity? 24:51 Whether it's a type one, type two, type 1.5, overweight individual, 24:57 that's where we get back to reversing heart disease. 25:00 I mean, how does a low fat diet we've heard about it 25:03 from Doctor Esselstyn and Doctor Ornish and Juliana ever. 25:06 And my co-host Doctor Joel Fuhrman. 25:08 How does a low fat diet restore insulin sensitivity 25:12 no matter what type of human you are? 25:14 Okay, I'm going to take us back to the beginning. 25:17 Okay? 25:18 Insulin was first discovered in 1921. 25:22 It was first used in humans in 1922, 25:27 and Doctor Sansom published a paper 25:29 in the Journal of the American Medical Association in 1926. 25:33 The paper was titled The Use of the High 25:36 Carbohydrate Diet in the Treatment of Diabetes Mellitus. 25:39 Okay, so we know going on 25:42 this is 25:43 this is again, as soon as insulin was discovered, 25:45 you start to see some papers on this topic. 25:47 And here's what he did. 25:48 So basically before there was insulin, 25:51 diabetes was pretty much a death sentence. 25:54 Like they really didn't know what to do. 25:55 They were just trying to keep people alive. 25:57 And so he did what he called, in his own words, 26:01 a radical experiment with 150 of his patients. 26:04 He started adding in more high carbohydrate foods because 26:07 now they had insulin. 26:08 They could they could they could handle this. 26:10 And what shocked him after adding in 26:13 bread, potatoes, milk and fruit, 26:16 those are the higher carbohydrate foods that were restricted in the past. 26:20 What shocked him is that the insulin requirements maintained 26:26 the same. 26:27 They did not change 26:28 throughout this approach and what happened is there were a bunch of benefits. 26:33 So these patients got back to normal physical and mental activity. 26:36 There was no difficulty in managing their blood glucose. 26:39 They improved their cardiovascular health. 26:41 The diet was more palatable. 26:42 It reduced cravings for forbidden foods, and it was cheaper. 26:46 So this is the beginning of researchers beginning to see, okay, wait a minute. 26:50 There could be something here. 26:52 And then in the 30s, Doctor Rabinovitch published papers 26:57 in the Canadian medical journal Canadian Medical Association Journal. 27:01 Okay, it's like Jama but for Canada. All right. 27:04 And he also started to incorporate more high carbohydrate foods. 27:08 He added fruit, he added bread and he added low fat milk. 27:12 He added also non-starchy vegetables. 27:14 And he kept the annual product consumption to a minimum, 27:18 he said bacon, fatty meats and fish and cream were forbidden, 27:22 and this was about 24% of calories coming from fat, 27:25 about 56g of fat per day. 27:28 So a little bit higher than what we recommend. 27:30 But what he really saw was incredible. 27:34 So people 27:35 living with insomnia and diabetes, they had less insulin, less injections. 27:38 Nonsense. 27:39 Independent people did not need to add insulin 27:41 when they, increased their carbohydrate consumption. 27:45 These patients, they were satisfied with their diet, 27:47 their blood glucose control improved. 27:49 They had lower cholesterol levels. 27:51 And it's important to note that in the paper, the quote is he's 27:55 he fed them a practically iso caloric value. 27:59 So they did not see these benefits just because he was feeding them 28:03 a low calorie diet. 28:05 And so in his 1932 paper, he concludes, diabetes 28:08 does not appear to be due to defective production of insulin, 28:11 but to interference with the action of normal supply. 28:16 Then he did another another paper. 28:18 It was like a randomized control trial. 28:19 He compared two different groups. 28:21 He concluded this paper saying carbohydrates increase, whereas fats 28:26 decrease the sensitivity of the individual animal and man to insulin. 28:31 So this is 1935 Canadian medical Association Journal. 28:36 We are seeing researchers observing clearly in humans 28:40 that if you lower the fat intake, insulin works more efficiently. 28:44 And then this continues. 28:46 Doctor Hemsworth okay. 28:48 He published papers in the British Medical Journal. 28:50 He was a researcher in the UK. 28:52 He says that, conclusion of a 1934 paper, it is evidence that on the high fat diet, 28:58 insulin takes longer to act and then acts more slowly on the blood sugar. 29:02 Then, when the subject is given a high carbohydrate diet. 29:06 And he did a lot of very, very sophisticated, elaborate studies 29:10 that you can't even do today where he would inject insulin 29:14 into healthy, normal, weight men. 29:18 Okay. 29:19 And he would publish what was it called, an insulin depression curve. 29:23 So he there's this one particular study, published in let's see, this one is titled 29:29 The Dietetic Factor Determining the Glucose tolerance 29:32 and Sensitivity to Insulin in Healthy Men. 29:35 This is published in Clinical Science in 1935. 29:39 These are small groups of people, but still fascinating research. 29:42 When you look at the history of this. 29:43 Okay, so there was one particular study where subjects eight 29:49 seven different diets for seven days. 29:53 And so this took a good chunk of time, was very thorough, 29:56 very controlled in a metabolic ward. 29:58 And I don't know if this is video or not. 30:00 And people can see it. 30:01 Maybe we can publish some some pictures. Yes. Video. 30:04 Okay. Well, maybe I should. 30:05 I'll give a picture so you can insert it and share the screen. 30:08 But the picture is unbelievable. 30:10 When you see he has an 80% of calories from fat diet. 30:13 69%, 58%, 47, 36, 25 and 13. 30:18 Those are the seven different percent of calories coming from fat. 30:21 And in the images you see a clear, clear distinction 30:25 into the size of the depression curve. 30:28 So when the subject was fed an 80%, fat diet, 30:33 it took insulin approximately four minutes to work. 30:37 And then it dropped their blood glucose to approximately. 30:40 I have to actually blow this up on my screen. 30:42 Let's see here, approximately 85, I think. 30:46 Okay. 30:47 Then when it was 30% of calories from fat, 30:50 the instead of working in two minutes and it dropped the blood glucose below 70. 30:55 And you can see it improving some slide by slide. 30:57 So when he concludes this study this is doctor him worth saying. 31:01 It is demonstrated that the efficiency with which 31:04 a standard dose of crystal and insulin acts on the blood sugar is determined 31:09 by the carbohydrate content of the diet, so that the greater 31:13 the amount of carbohydrate in the diet, the greater 31:16 the sensitivity of the organism to insulin. 31:20 And this goes on. 31:21 I know we don't have time 31:21 to go through all the history, but I mean, I just want to stress every time you say 31:26 carbohydrate, you obviously could say complex carbohydrate, 31:29 because what we're seeing behind you is obviously not bagels, not cookies, 31:33 not white bread, not white rice, not sugar. 31:36 So correct. 31:37 You have to stick, you know, to what you guys 31:39 eat fruits and vegetables and starchy vegetables. 31:43 And I mean, what is it about high dietary fat diets? 31:48 People here 31:48 all the time, ketogenic and maybe high fat versions of Paleolithic diets. 31:53 What is it about the dietary fat that's so toxic to the insulin signaling 31:59 system or insulin, you know, sensitivity where just tell us how that happens. 32:04 I think we have at least a theory I would have, yeah. 32:07 So you mentioned, Doctor Shulman's work. 32:09 And basically what researchers have found is that when you consume 32:13 excess dietary fat, number one, the biggest offender being trans 32:17 fat, the second biggest offender being saturated fat. 32:21 And then too much on saturated fat can be a problem as well. 32:24 But again, research is very clear when it comes to trans fat 32:28 and saturated fat. 32:29 Too much of that being consumed ends up 32:32 getting stored in muscle and liver tissue. 32:35 And when you have excess fat in those tissues that blocks insulin 32:41 from working properly, it's essentially as if the lock has been gum. 32:45 So insulin is is the key. 32:47 It's supposed to open the door. 32:49 So then glucose can be ushered from your bloodstream into your cells. 32:53 But if that key lock, if it's all gummed up, if the signaling is not working 32:58 and the insulin being the key cannot open the door, 33:01 then you have glucose that is stuck in your bloodstream. 33:05 And it's really a defense mechanism. 33:07 Because what's happening is your cells are saying, look, 33:10 they have turned off the signaling inside the cell. 33:14 It's called intramuscular lipids. 33:16 They have been turned off the ability for the door to open. 33:20 Because what they're communicating is that we already have a bunch of fat in here. 33:25 We don't need more fuel. 33:27 I don't want the glucose. 33:29 So this is the defense mechanism 33:31 where your body's protecting itself from getting in again, too much energy. 33:35 And as you begin to eat a low fat 33:38 diet, you begin to burn away this excess fat. 33:41 All of a sudden, insulin sensitivity is restored 33:44 and you are back to becoming more and more insulin sensitive. 33:47 That's that's the biggest component here. 33:49 But doctor, can we also know there are other components here 33:54 consuming too much advanced glycation end products okay. 33:57 From, you know, like processed meats. 33:59 That's a problem. 34:00 All right. 34:01 We know we wrote about this in our book excess leucine is a problem. 34:04 Excess sodium is a problem. 34:05 So there's a 34:06 there's a whole component of inflammation when it comes to insulin resistance. 34:09 So there are other problems other nuances.
Why dietary fat drives insulin resistance 34:14 And what we have done mastering diabetes is we have created a program 34:19 that addresses all of these points simultaneously. 34:23 And that is why I considered at the beginning of this interview, 34:26 and share how I have some extraordinarily high level of insulin sensitivity. 34:31 It's because I'm not just doing one thing properly. 34:34 This low fat, plant based whole food diet is not just addressing 34:38 the fat, it's also addressing excess protein. 34:41 That's another big one I didn't mention. Okay. 34:43 So it's you could say it's a low fat, low protein, 34:48 diet as well if you wanted to, but it's really more 34:50 like appropriate protein because in our society we're just having too much. 34:54 And that Calzada has a delayed insulin spike. 34:58 And again, people living with type one can see it clearly. 35:01 But the bottom line here is 35:03 when you follow a 35:05 diet that is again, it's low in overall 35:08 fat, again, particularly low in trans fat and saturated fat. 35:11 And it's high in water content. 35:14 It's high in fiber. 35:15 It's high in vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, low 35:18 in advanced glycation end products, low in excess protein. 35:21 You put together this package, which not only makes 35:25 you become more on sensitive, but it starts to give you the energy 35:29 to want to move your body and then movement, 35:33 which is an essential component of the mass and diabetes method, 35:36 also improves your insulin sensitivity dramatically. 35:39 I think that was like the most powerful 35:42 five, six, seven minutes of physiology. 35:45 And, you know, everything you're quoting is science. 35:47 And, Gerald Schuman at Yale, 35:49 I mean, he did muscle biopsies where you can see these fat droplets 35:53 in muscle cells and you can see them diminishing using MRI scans. 35:58 So you would imagine just last couple of questions. 36:01 If we did a biopsy of your, calf muscle, you probably would have, 36:05 pristine muscles without those little fat droplets, I'm quite sure. 36:09 Don't volunteer do readily for that. 36:12 I would imagine so. 36:13 You know, I remember this question. 36:15 Yeah. 36:16 You know, this is the study I don't believe has ever been done, 36:20 which is to take 50 people in your program that are really successful, 36:25 type one and type two, and take 50 people 36:28 in a ketogenic diabetic control program, of which there are 36:34 and and do a two hour glucose tolerance test, which we're going to hear 36:38 a little bit about more from one of our, experts you're interviewing. 36:41 That's sort of a routine test in their heart disease reversal clinic. 36:44 What do you think you'd see in that experiment? 36:47 And if you think it's been done correctly. 36:49 But I don't think so. 36:52 I don't think it has been done correctly. 36:53 I think you're correct. 36:54 And what you would see, well, I would imagine you would see 36:57 is that the people in the low fat group 37:02 would show a very, very high level of insulin sensitivity. 37:07 Right. 37:07 Like they you would just be like, again, you're looking at my numbers like, wow, 37:11 like the amount of insulin 37:12 that they had to secrete, you know, like it would be a 75 gram test. 37:16 Right. So you had to figure out like how much. 37:17 And so like it would just be very clear 37:19 their variance on sensitive not just like average insulin sensitive. 37:24 You would see 37:24 they are like beyond like wow, there's something really special going on here. 37:28 Now in the other group, what I would imagine you would see 37:33 is definitely, I think if they're truly following a ketogenic diet 37:38 and they were sticking to that ketogenic diet 37:41 up until the day of the test, 37:44 I believe they're going to feel that oral glucose tolerance test. 37:47 They can't handle 75g of glucose. 37:50 Now, what the low carb community will say is, well, I need time to carb adapt. 37:55 So if you if you did a study in another way where you gave the low carb 37:59 group a chance to carb adapt and basically shift their metabolism, 38:05 I think you would if they were, if they were at an ideal weight, 38:08 you probably would see some pretty, pretty decent readings. 38:10 You wouldn't 38:11 see anything extraordinary like, wow, like they're super insulin sensitive, 38:14 but I don't think you would necessarily see something and saying, wow, 38:17 like they're super insulin resistant if you let them carb adapt. 38:21 And I think that again, that's where this stuff gets really, 38:23 really nuanced and really confusing in the research. 38:26 And so we do know people will improve their internal sensitivity 38:30 just by losing weight. 38:31 So of course, you can see, the low carb crew, the keto crew seeing improvements 38:36 just because of the weight loss. 38:37 You'd have to really do some, you know, iso caloric, testing here as well. 38:42 It's be a lot of nuances to doing such a, such a, paper. 38:46 But again, our position again, I love the low carb people. 38:49 I have a, you know, we I think we have a mutual friend 38:52 who's well known, plant based, vegan, 38:55 low carb, type one amazing woman. 38:58 Like, I respect everybody doing that stuff. 39:01 I think, our biggest problem 39:03 in this country is the people who are just apathetic 39:05 and just aren't caring and are doing nothing. 39:06 We have way more in common with the low carb world than we have 39:10 then we don't have in common. 39:12 I love them, it's great. 39:13 Our position is that, look, 39:16 we don't we don't 39:17 see even the need or the reason or the benefit of perpetually living 39:23 in a state where you've put yourself into a state of glucose intolerance. 39:28 Right. 39:29 So they would fail that oral glucose tolerance test 39:31 if they were sticking to the keto diet because they they are adjusting 39:36 their physiology to be in a place of glucose intolerance. 39:39 We say, look, 39:40 all the benefits you can get of being in a low carbohydrate diet, whether it's 39:43 the weight loss, whether it's, you know, having more energy, 39:47 whatever benefits you're seeing out there, you can get the same ones 39:51 by following a low fat, plant based whole food diet. 39:53 And you can become insulin sensitive and you get to choose to follow a diet, 39:57 which has been proven as the diet for the longest lived humans on the planet. 40:01 The keto world doesn't have that research yet, so they're there. 40:03 They like, say, how look? 40:04 Well, absence of it doesn't mean that it can't happen. 40:07 I would just prefer to go with the one that's already been proven 40:11 and stick and stick with that beautiful, beautiful. 40:14 Summary I agree with you. 40:15 Apathy, which is the standard American diet, is the real enemy here. 40:20 And I think you've challenged people so now everybody's stimulated. 40:24 They want to go read your book. They want to go to your website. 40:26 They want to have you. 40:26 And, doctor, I was coaching. 40:29 What's a website again? 40:31 Okay. 40:31 The best place to go to is mastering diabetes.org. 40:35 And if you're interested in coaching, 40:36 you can just click on Personalized coaching. 40:38 You'll get a chance to talk to an enrollment specialist for free. 40:41 We want to make sure we can help you. We want to make sure we're a good fit. 40:44 We want to get you aligned with the right coach. 40:46 Depending what type of diabetes you're living at, depending on your goals, 40:49 you need to be with the register and or dietitian. 40:52 Do you need to be with a certified diabetes care and education specialist? 40:55 You need to be with a weight loss expert. 40:57 Whatever you need, we're going to align you with the right person. 41:00 And that's how we help you through our website. 41:02 And somebody is thirsty from the green. 41:05 They're going to find it the same website or a special website. 41:08 They should go to, the green.com 41:10 and absolutely get yourself some the green is powerful. 41:13 It's actually quite delicious. 41:15 And it's an easy way to get started. 41:16 And like I said, 41:17 you can make it into a tea without water and you can put it in a smoothie. 41:20 And I'm sure there's other absolutely you can put it in a dressing. 41:24 You could add it to any meal that you're cooking, 41:26 like it's easy to get it in, but you want to make it a habit 41:29 and do it consistently. And that's how you see the best results. 41:31 Perfect. 41:32 Well, I gotta say, I think this, large audience 41:35 is just rocking with excitement, rocking with information, 41:39 and rocking with respect to maybe, you know, you and Doctor Sivers. 41:44 I absolutely love you guys are such, you know, I think you're celebrated, 41:48 but you are the real biohackers, dealing with that theory, dealing now with 41:53 I want to live to 180 like some very famous biohackers talk about. 41:57 You gotta deal with how my blood sugar is going to get me through the night 42:01 without coma. 42:02 And, you know, you've been very precise and scientific. 42:06 And the bottom line is, you're not screwing around. 42:09 You're serious, and you're helping people. 42:10 So I appreciate that. 42:12 Back to you. And, thank you. 42:14 Really been a great foundation for reversing your heart disease. 42:18 Naturally. Thank you. Robbie, I appreciate it. 42:21 Thank you so much, Doctor Khan. You're such an inspiration. 42:23 I'm so glad to be a part of this. Keep up the great work. 42:25 Thank you.
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