Plant Medicine as Technology: Healing Beyond Fear

Opening on dystopian narratives and healing 0:00

The past has been filled with a lot of difficulty and also tremendous and great turmoil, and that our ancestors have experienced incredible turmoil. And so we need an opportunity to create change. And whenever change is occurring, that is our opportunity. And part of what's going on right now is a great dystopian narrative. And the problem with the dystopian narrative is that it compresses and reduces the intelligence of our imagination. We go into a place of fear, and we try to rationalize the nature of that story.

And it's a very potent story and an incredible mythology. So we need the healers to utilize the nature of their practices, to be able to keep the imagination open for themselves, individually, but also collectively. Because we outinnovate the dystopian narrative, we create the change that we would like society to become. This is doctor talks. Real talk from real doctors. Only issues that matter to you most. Hello. This is, the two curious MDS podcast. I'm Soraya Rahman, and I'm here today with Maestro Hamilton.

And thank you so much for being here, Maestro Hamilton. I'm just going to run through, small bio of yours, which can be found at Blue Morpho Academy if anybody's interested. And looking you up. I think today's conversation promises to be quite a journey through psychedelic history of a sort.

Maestro Hamiltonu2019s background and calling to Peru 1:29

You know, because you've really been involved in this field for over 20 years. At least that's what I see from your timeline. Here is 2002, when you entered apprenticeship, in the Amazon. And now. So you are a trained master shaman who received this training from Julia, Yelena Pinedo, is that correct, by the way? Yeah. As a renowned healer, in 2004, you became the first Westerner to be recognized as a maestro medical of the hit, at least a Amazonian plant medicine expert, at least, which is a title of distinction in the field of plant medicine.

Your experience encompasses 20 years using sacred plants to help clients improve their lives. And you've worked with over 15,000 individuals during this time. You also work with high profile clients for the past 20 years, offering coaching services and through blue Morpho Academy, you are training those of us who want to serve as sitters, coaches, facilitators and master facilitators. And you've made this your life's mission. So thank you so much for being here on the two curious MDS podcast. Maestro Hamilton, we love to have you.

Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here, sir, and I really grateful for this conversation. Oh, thank you so much. We'll just dive right in. You know what was happening in 2002 or, what led you what was the path for young maestro to find his way there? Yeah, in 2002, I had graduated from the university. I'd studied anthropology, and I came from a Western medical background. Family. My father was a plastic surgeon and my mother a nurse, and we had been through a variety of all of the kind of trials and tribulations that, you know, somebody goes through in their youth.

But I also suffered depression and had difficulties through different kinds of childhood abuse, and was looking for something beyond what was available at that time. And kind of spontaneously, I had a spiritual awakening that happened right then in my early 20s. And as part of that, I got really interested in meditation.

Spiritual emergence and avoiding pathologizing 3:34

But it was the shamanic arts that were really more parallel or akin to the experiences that I started to have. And so it turned into a journey that led me down to Peru when I was doing meditations, I had really clear communication and visions that I needed to go down to Peru, and that there was something important waiting for me there. And ultimately that was an apprenticeship in the visionary arts in the Amazon and ultimately has led to the last 20 plus years of both plant medicine and service.

You know, beautiful. Well, you heard the call, and the call came through in this way that we call spiritual emergence. Right. How old were you at the time? The awakening? I when I was 22 and I went to Peru just after turning 23. I just want to linger on that a little bit, because in pediatrics where doctor all you ama that I practice for 20 years, you know, we do have so many young people who go through a spiritual emergence experience and they get mislabeled as pathologic, you know, have you had experiences where you've because you've supported so many journeys?

What is your framing around that experience when it happens in one so young and especially spontaneously, like it did with you? I figured, you know, the way you mentioned things, getting mislabeled is really important. And I think that when it happened for me, there was very little in my community and in the collective understanding to describe the experiences that I was having. And I now think that awakening of consciousness is a process that we're in now as a as a collective, as a species, and it's also becoming more normalized and accepted as something that people are experiencing and go through.

And for me to address it, I ended up doing two things. I immediately put myself into counseling to get one perspective, and I immediately went and saw a shaman to get another perspective, and both came back to me. Luckily, that the experiences that I was having were just experiences themselves. Not more or less than that. And I had to learn how to address and deal with them. But it wasn't labeled as pathology, which was, I think, very supportive. I think we have a tendency when we don't understand something and it's it's moving somebody out of the mainstream expression of culture that it's very easy to pathologize that.

And in the case of shamanic awakenings and spiritual awakenings in that way, often there is a quality to them that runs parallel or akin to certain kind of behaviors or characteristics that are pathological. And so I think it merits a real study and observation of the individual to see if they're having mental health difficulties or if something expansive is taking place in their consciousness and in their mind and worldview and perspective. And if it is, we can look at our ancestors and our ancestral cultures and our traditional cultures to see that they knew what to do with people like that.

They actually trained them. They had a path for them. There was an important place in society for them, and it took neurodivergent people. And also, you know, people having these kinds of awakenings and gave them immediate purpose, which was to utilize that quality of themself for the benefit of the collective. How beautifully put, how beautifully put, and just seeing the difference. You must have experience from going from a culture where there was no framework for it, or a community around it, to a culture where it radically shifted your perspectives and gave you this really just a way to look at it

Amazonian apprenticeship and healer training 7:18

that kept room for self-compassion, open for not pathologizing and feeling broken. That's the part I think that I find over and over again is that's what we're healing. The we're healing that story of brokenness where people have been told over and over and over again and experience that, oh, because I'm this way, or experience the world in this way, or I behave in this way, I speak in this way, or look this way, that there's something wrong with me. And I just love how we can go back to our ancestors, really just have to read between the lines of how everything went and then the plants to us.

I think the plants are a really like holding up a mirror to us in some ways to say, look what had to happen for you to be here right now, to be able to even have these thoughts. And so I just am in gratitude for how that journey went for you, and how you've continued to carry that on. What does it take to become a mainstream medical vanity loser in the Amazon? Because I've only been doing this for like two years and I'm tired. Maestro, that's a great that's a great question. What does it take? First, it takes being recognized as having a potential talent and being invited into apprenticeship.

In my case, that took a little over a year and a half of being observed by the maestros in the community. I was expressing interest and was allowed to participate in the different rituals and ceremonies, but I wasn't allowed to be taught. It's a time of year application of both. You're applying to the desire to learn, but also for them to, you know, apply their understandings to you. And then once you're accepted into apprenticeship, typically it takes somewhere between 5 and 10 years of training, and the training is continuous.

There's no vacation or break from it. And you go through a series of rites of passage, as well as going through, series of trainings and an extensive number of ceremonies. So typically somebody will go through hundreds of ceremonies and participate in the consumption of the plant medicines that many times. And you're also expected to at least once or twice consume all of the different medicines that you may prescribe, or you may offer to somebody as part of their treatments during the training itself, so that you have a personal awareness and understanding of the interaction with those plants.

And then you go through extensive diets, which are these fasts. And during this time of fasts, you are restricted from many of the common foods that you would eat. And during that time you drink non-psychoactive medicinal plants that are considered to have a transformative effect on you, that supports you in your ability to have clarity in your visions, to be able to diagnose through those visions, and to be able to be supported by the essential nature of the the forest itself. There's a quality of deep into energy interaction, as much as utilizing the plants in the form of tinctures and teas where you're consuming the active compounds.

And so there's this very unique blend of recognizing both the consumption of the plant and this incredible pharmacopeia that the forest allows for. There's hundreds and thousands of medicinal plants that are known and utilized in these fashions. But then there's also a recognition of what they call spirit, which I think translates to your essential energy and the need to treat that aspect of you. And so I found it really interesting that when children have trauma, they consider that a spiritual illness.

They treat the spiritual illness immediately upon trauma, and it doesn't accumulate over time. And then if an adult experiences a physical trauma like a broken bone or a damage to a joint, they'll heal the joint or they'll heal the bone, and then afterwards they'll

Plant medicine as technology and diagnosis 11:16

treat their spirit or their essential energy. Oh, that's beautifully put as I'm listening. And I'm envisioning the rigor of this training is what stands out to be. We talking in medical circles about residency training and how rigorous that is. And I think that level of rigor is necessary, and I really respect the methods that you've described where it's an apprenticeship, it's like you're applying for it in this way in which you've been tested and you're ready. And I love how that shows the care of those around you who were, you know, your your maestros.

And I think that that is the process of medical education and education of a healer, because you yourself have the parts of yourself healed as well and do your own work before you could even go out there and be there for the healing of others. At least that's the first step, you know, and I think in our Western medical education, we only educate the mind. That's one third of the brain, the the cognitive, the materialist. And we don't educate the body. And that's that's one disconnect that we experience as healers.

And the other thing that you're describing is that you become one with the technology that you're using in a way, if I may call plant medicine sort of technology, right. It's it's a tool. It's it's something that you can connect with. You can learn about, you can explore, you can categorize, you know, and that's what the Amazonian, healers have done for generations upon generations is it's really tested these things out in their own bodies and their own minds. And so you can call this a research project of millennia long, you know, that, that we are now at the tip of that spear, kind of, you know, it's entering into our collective consciousness.

The this is possible that you no longer have to go out into the jungle to do this. Tell me, I mean, as you are going from this experience of having a, you know, experience this medicine in the energetics of the Amazon, where the medicine is, you know, just kind of like the birth place and just kind of healing. And I have experience, but also mostly read and, you know, kind of framed from my own self what this kind of healing is and how you beautifully described it. Like, you know, the spirit needs to heal when there's been trauma in the child and in adults, the spirit maybe the secondary thing that heals.

And that's really resonating with me right now for how this medicine interacts with the trauma to the spirit that can happen through any number of things that we can experience were where, the the death of a parent, you know, breakup of a family, the actual, you know, attachment, trauma that can come from, not having adults that take care of you or care for you. And, and, you know, as a pediatrician, I say repeatedly nowadays, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I spent more than 20 years in pediatrics, you know, and so my interaction wasn't as deep with adult in their journeys.

And now in the last two years, I've actually kind of taken that other route of looking at people's childhoods from the lens of their adulthood. And there are so many places where people carry that brokenness into their adulthood. And that's what we're talking about here, right? Is that spiritual healing that we are arrive on this plane whole, spiritually whole as children. And there is something that renders that apart. And unless we heal that first part, no matter what other healings we do, we haven't really healed, is that.

Yeah, I mean, I first, I love the idea that the plant medicines are technology and I think it's it's an incredible way to think about them. And I think of it as, discovery by humans of this incredible technology that comes from another kingdom of life. And something that we didn't understand. And when I first came to the Amazon, it was presented in this way of, we can utilize these substances to have extraordinary abilities and expect repeatability and consistency and association with that. And so I think to frame them as a technology is a beautiful way of understanding them and helps us understand not only their use as a very important tool and a tool that's been important for thousands of years, but also how we can understand that we're in a great age of the sharing and globalization of our technologies.

And so it's an incredible time to be able to see not only how we can use information technology to have a conversation spanning continents. We can have these plant medicines now actually being studied and understood from a scientific perspective and being embraced in Western cultures and seeing the the impact that they can have. And I think understanding them as a technology, both mystifies them and demystifies them at the same time. It makes them approachable, and I love that it makes them approachable, because I think that that's the the true nature of them.

And it's only been an interesting and kind of rare moment in history where for the last 50 or 60 years, there was a compression against them and because of that, a reduction of the ability to utilize our science to understand them. And now we're going to get that ability, which I think is fascinating. I think that, you know, there was incredible results in the labs in Silicon Valley at Stanford in the 1950s and early 60s, before there was a shut down of that science and study that was being done.

And we're going to be able to see that now. And when we bring that awareness and understanding to what we've learned in the last 50 years in psychology and psychiatric and much more holistic understanding of health and how to create health in individuals, we can see that while we go through developmental stages, we carry those developmental stages within us. And so as soon as we open up the psyche, we see that while we may be adults, there is still the youthfulness, the infancy within us. There's still the prepubescent, the pubescent.

Misconceptions, fear, and the role of meditation 17:28

There's still all of the transformative transitions that we went through and what we might not be thinking about it all the time. In the subconscious and unconscious, there are drivers of our behavior and our feelings that are unresolved. And these have a unique way, as you said, to present a mirror to immediately open us to the subconscious, an unconscious, and allow us a moment of reflection, an awareness and a lens in which to be able to view ourselves that we normally don't have, that our our Western educated mind doesn't allow for.

And in that also the presence of that aspect, that's technology. And raw medicine to create a transformation. It's not just the ability to witness it, but it's also the ability to evolve, mature, heal and really develop a new internal expression of ourselves that can be more whole and also much more supportive of the life that we want to live now. And I think that this is a great opening and a great renaissance of the use of these plants as a technology. And so I just really love that. Yeah. Oh my gosh, this is you're talking about the development and the unfolding.

That's exactly what we see when we're healing childhood wounds. And especially in young adults. I just see their development kind of proceed. You know, it gets halted because of the trauma. And then when we remove the blockers, it just kind of flourishes. So just this idea that we're and it's opposite to how we're taught in Western medicine, which is that this inner healer, right, this kind of programmatic part of ourselves that is oriented towards flourishing if all things remain equal, if the person has all the different experiences and all the connectivities that need to happen to support it, they will proceed.

And then even in the elements in the times of trauma, there is even kind of a workaround, right? Some of these or some of these ways in which we dissociate during trauma that we hold for the rest of our lives, actually started from a place of like, well, I'm trying to save myself. I'm trying to hold on to something that's outside of the trauma and hold the trauma alongside. I'm learning now at this age, and having been in this kind of training, that there's an intelligence in our body, and it brings me down to the first time when I, you know, encountered in my medical training the cadaver that they they have us dissect, you know, and the human body in all of its just exquisite design, you know, you can't but marvel at how it all kind of works and staying with that marvel instead of breaking it down into a list of symptoms and a list of signs.

And, you know, we barely even touch the body these days. Whereas, you know, when we were trained like 25 years ago, touching the body was a great way of getting information from it. You know, then those kind of things and I know that in this kind of flat medicine, you're also getting information from the body of a person, you know, as a shaman, as as a healer. Tell me how you're reading the body. Tell me how what does that look like? What does that feel like? It's a great question. One of the first things that we learned was how to diagnose.

And it's one of the hardest things to do. You're in the forest. There's very little support outside of what's immediately available. You don't have any other kinds of sensors or X-ray, you know, any kinds of scans, etc., not even blood work. And so you have to be able to somehow figure out and discern and diagnose, you know, one illness from another, when many can seem almost identical and the symptoms that are presenting. And so the shamans, through the visionary work, learn how to go into vision and actually read how the body is emitting and what you can see from the body itself.

In divisions themselves. And if you've had a psychedelic experience where you've been calm enough to be able to really look at another person, you see a very different view of them than what you see with your normal eyes, and they actually learn to read that as a kind of scan and, and diagnosis. So one of the first things we learn is is this something we can heal or is this something that we can't? Is this something that needs to be sent to, you know, either a Western medical locator or a hospital, etc.?

But I can give you an a great example of this. A man was brought to me about 15 years ago. He could barely walk. He was carried in and it was laid on our floor. And I went in to ceremony that night. He was not in any condition to be able to drink any planned medicine, so he was just there. But we were going to all the planned medicine ceremony. So we had it. We tried to make him as comfortable as possible. And I went into the ceremony and as I went up to him, when we were finally in full vision, I was able to just looking at his his hip where he was having the problem.

And by putting my hands on his hip and just palpating that this was not something for us to treat, and that he actually had an abscess in his femoral head, and that he had a deep infection and he needed to immediately be sent to the local hospital. He was a person of very little economic means, and so I actually paid for him to go in his surgery. And it was exactly right. He got the diagnosis that he needed. He was taken in, they did X-rays, they found the abscess and they opened up his hip and they cleaned out the infection.

And then he recouped and he saved his leg and he was able to walk. And so the body tells you, and there's this awareness that you develop over time in these altered states of consciousness. But to understand that there's great clarity in them, sometimes more clarity than we can have utilizing the mind based and deductive reasoning. And it was an art that the medical visitor list us have used in the Amazon as a form of diagnosis for, you know, thousands of years. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's how we came upon all the knowledge we have in Western medicine.

You know, when we have these textbooks where it's like observation, palpation, you know, you look at the redness, you look at this, you look at that. These were observations that then got written into books. But where did they start from? This was from healers who had all of these ways of connecting. And I feel like what you're talking about is attunement. You're talking about an attunement to the way that a body gives off the signs and the signals that we could always read. Right, whether that's in the quickening of the pulse, the flesh of the skin, you know, just kind of the way the person is walking

Plant medicine, AI, and future innovation 24:10

or breathing or conversing or looking at you in the eye. And I feel like that is something that I've taught in pediatrics. Because in pediatrics, your patients can't talk to. So so you really have to be good at looking at a baby and going, this is, you know, meningitis or you just gassy. That's what happened. And I feel like I'm resonating with that because after a while of doing that, you know, at first it's really difficult. At first you are right. Like you are kind of trying to understand what the difference is that you're trying.

You're asked to be perceive, to perceive. And over time when you get it, it becomes kind of like, okay, okay, confirmation, multiple variations. All right. And then they you don't even have to think about it. You just have to kind of pay attention. So I feel like what you've done is that healers art of attuning your senses, you know, your ability to use this technology in a way that you know, doesn't need a lot of tools. As you said, it's very basic in that way. What's the misconception that people have about working with medicinal plants that you wish you could correct?

I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that they're scary and that there's a lot of fear about them. And I think when they're used responsibly with people who know proper dose and as you're saying, how to be able to read somebody, to know the condition they're in and the kind of treatment that they're not scary at all and that they're one of the most potent and powerful ancestral medicines that we have ever had. And, you know, the archeology and anthropology that sits behind these cultures has demonstrated that they've been used for thousands of years.

And so I think it's an understanding that they're not scary at all, but they do take you to a place where you have to confront your own fears and to understand how fear plays out in the nature of your own psyche, and to learn how to calm down and self-regulate your nervous system. And in that way that there are really powerful and incredible technology to show us more about ourselves. And so I've been, you know, hearing in the the culture around them attunement, especially in the plant medicine space, less in and around ketamine, but in the plant medicine space, a tremendous amount of fear about the nature of the hero's journey and the ego's journey of experiencing them.

And I think that it's a misconception that rather, it's an opportunity to understand more about ourselves and that we have the best experiences when we're in the calmest state about. And to go into a deep meditative state. And so I think that I would like to see the culture embrace this in a way that moves beyond the fear based narrative and really starts to describe the aspect of the visionary state that people in to enter into and the value that that has for them when they find that really calm place within themselves.

And as you say, that inner intelligence, that inner technology that the human body turns on and is a miraculous first experience for people, absolutely. What we call the placebo effect that comes into play whenever we're trying to test when something is working. 75% of a lot of medications is about the placebo effect. Something within us has to turn on the inner healing intelligence for something to be effective. I'm just being called to recognize also that when when you're talking about this fear, we're in such fear right now.

And you're right that plant medicines and ketamine are markedly different. They work in different ways. You know, I worked for ketamine for about ten years in the sedation space, and I wouldn't believe for two years that it was a real psychedelic. I was like, no, it's a that and static. But it's proved to be like Thomas the train engine. It's like the thing, the molecule that can it does so many little enough of the little things to create this really interesting psychedelic experience that I think for most people who are in the materialist western mindset and are not looking to change their mind, it can give a little bit of safety because it's shorter acting.

It's got a few of those advantages, but it's really interesting. We're still getting to that same place of connecting with the inner healer, but only when we get silent. You're absolutely right.

Healers, turmoil, and resisting dystopian thinking 28:38

So that's one of the things that I've learned that is so important is that meditation. And, you know, we know that the science is also showing that when we look at the brains of long term meditators and we look at the brains of people on psychedelics, there's so much overlap there that we can't but wonder that we've kind of found our way back to this ancient technology that's existed in many cultures. When we quiet ourselves, when we client our nervous system, when we quiet a thought, our mind that there is another part of us that can connect with everything and has an intelligence.

And in some ways, the planet intelligence and our own intelligence are kind of speaking to us, kind of getting together and speaking to us. And I'm wondering, what role do you think plant medicine will play in the future of leadership and innovation? That's that's a great question. I think plant medicines are going to hold a greater role in the future of leadership and in innovation, and I think they've had a big role already. But it's been underground and not really talked about. And so there's this opportunity where we're at this convergence of information technology and artificial intelligence and this open push to describe a desire to create technology that merges with consciousness or new consciousness.

And it's still very prophetic. It's, you know, called artificial superintelligence. But there are companies in the world seeking that right now and looking for a way to be able to make that happen. And I know that certain people in that industry are actively utilizing all different kinds of plant medicines to try to bring forth the innovation necessary to understand this. And I think as we get into the idea of greater performance and expansion of consciousness, we see once again that plant medicines are being sought and thought of as a way to be able to bring forth those experiences.

And so there's an opportunity here for humans to grow once again with this plant intelligence that you're talking about. And I also like to take the perspective of asking the plants, as well, how they feel about being part of this great movement. It's not just a single species doing this, but rather this inter-cultural interspecies opportunity. And it's such a unique way of thinking about how we consume food as a way of, you know, ingesting the medicines and in the form of plant medicine. It's also interesting that the use of them comes in a way that's very food, like people eat them or they, they drink a tea made of them, etc..

And so I see this, this merging taking place and I think they'll have a much greater open role now as the stigma starts to fall away of their importance, and how many leaders have been utilizing them and, how many more will. Yeah, absolutely. I think I'm feeling the kind of opening that we feel when we come into the psychedelic space is like, wow, there's a lot here that's converging, that's overlapping, that's kind of connecting in a way that is almost speeded up because of the nature of these technologies.

I'm really interested to hear that plant medicines and artificial intelligence are kind of playing together. And, there's some energetics that are shifting because they're playing together. And in a way, it gives me hope. And it also allows me to ground. So as I'm starting to kind of, head into the vital portion of this, I want to also, you know, lean in a little bit on because you speak to we both speak to young people in the healing spaces who are training, who are healers, who have heard that call to heal themselves and others.

And we know so many of them. And, you know, one of the things that I'm very aware of is that we're in a time of great turmoil and trauma because of all the things that we're talking about. We're also in a great moment of rupture that that is that is happening and how to hold space for that rupture, how to within our own neurobiology, you had mentioned grounding and other practices. How are young people who are thinking of themselves as healers to take care of themselves? And what have you learned about that path of the healer that has kept you in this field?

As I know, this is a really difficult path, but also a very worthwhile path of the healer, which doesn't end until the day we die. You know, we never stop being healers. I think it's a job you never retire from. My parents were also healers, and I come from a lineage like that, where it is a deeply felt identity and a core value. So how would you say you you addressed that or learned about that? Think in times of great difficulty and turmoil. That's the time for the practices to have their most merit and importance.

And so what I love about the plan medicine path is that you learn how to work with the plant medicines to help you through the difficult times, and how to be able to stay grounded and recharge. And when I think on a larger scale, this is the time for the people that identify as healers to step forth and provide an example for others to realize that in the face of great fear, great turmoil and great conflict, that's an opportunity for great change. And I would like to share an idea that the world needs a lot of change and evolution, and that the past has been filled with a lot of difficulty and also tremendous and great turmoil, and that our ancestors have experienced incredible turmoil.

And so we need an opportunity to create change. And whenever change is occurring, that is our opportunity. And part of what's going on right now is a great dystopian narrative. And the problem with the dystopian narrative is that it compresses and reduces the intelligence of our imagination. We go into a place of fear, and we try to rationalize the nature of that story. And it's a very potent story and an incredible mythology. So we need the healers to utilize the nature of their practices, to be able to keep the imagination open for themselves individually, but also collectively.

Because we outinnovate the dystopian narrative, we create the change that we would like society to become. And we can't do that in opposition to the nature of how society is. And it's part of that narrative to create polarization in opposition. And so we have to be in our heart, and we have to be grounded. And we have to understand that this is a continuous evolutionary process that also includes the Earth, and that we have a very sacred and a very important role. And it can be very difficult at times and to embrace that and share that with others and be honest about that, and to utilize the practices that help us ground and help us relax and help us stay in the heart and stay compassionate in the face of these great fears and think that especially in the emergence of technology, the way that it's happening now at a time of great transition and change, that this is our opportunity to be able to create the future that we would like to see.

And we can do that individually, and we can do it within our families and collectively. And if we do enough of that individually and in small collectives, that can become a much greater narrative. And I think that starts to impact upon the collective mind. And, you know, there's philosophies around the idea of a collective consciousness. And instead of making that abstract, I think we can look at that in a very real way through the idea of the social graph and our communication, the kind of content we create, the kind of media we put into the world, and the way that we decide to gather in person and share in the intimacy of real human interactions during this kind of time.

And when we do that, we find that the dystopia narrative falls away and our humanity once again blossoms and once again comes forth. And so I think that this is the greatest time for that. And we need our youth, especially the younger healers who are coming into this, to feel empowered and to feel like this is an incredible time to be alive and to be supported in that and know that they have decades of both service and work to do, but also positive evolution and change that we can create together.

And I think when we approach this from that perspective, that we have a better chance of making that change that we would like to see, but we also have a way to sustain what we need as healers within our communities to be able to support the people that were there to help. Yeah. Oh. Beautifully said. Well, let that settle for a minute, because I've had this kind of notion that when in this kind of battle of good and evil, right, that we're kind of in right now, if we think about it that way, the dystopian narrative and how we know the mechanics of how we get into it, it's kind of our primal nature to get fascinated by it.

There's a part of our amygdala that creates a coating, when we look at a shape that encodes it as either safe or not safe, right. And so when we're in fear, our amygdala kind of goes to that level. Instead of being a relaxed face in a relaxed face, you can tell when you look at the shape you've got some time to decide whether that's an enemy or a friend, and you actually have more narratives to choose from instead of you're kind of stuck in that dystopian narrative, and everything looks to you through that lens.

Is this a friend or a foe? And we can kind of really see how that narrative has controlled, you know, a large elements of our population is seeking to control even more and more, you know, all of all of the crises, the meta crises that are happening. And so the only thing we have control over is our bodies and the internal element of peace that we can we can reach within that. And just doing that can change. And as you were speaking, I felt that kind of mushrooming kind of feeling of little pockets, little communities of holding that safe space of really grounding and saying, oh, this is worthwhile.

This is why we're here, to be with each other, to hold each other, to sustain each other, that no one needs to go hungry, no one needs to go friendless, that we're in relationship. And I'm brought that, you know, the plant intelligences that are around us, teach us this all the time, are plant intelligences. Invite other beings to live within them. They're never by themselves. They're they're conglomeration of millions and billions of things, as are we. So also remembering that element and as I'm kind of, you know, kind of sitting with just this beautiful moment that we've reached in our conversation list, I just want to thank you for how clearly you just articulate, you know, in a way that also feels it's doable, that we speak with hope that is grounded confidence through your lived experience and hopefully and through my lived experience.

And so I'm still in a process of retraining, unlearning. And so I have learned so much in my conversation with you today. Thank you so much for sharing all of your stories and all of your thoughts and, really beautifully articulated ideas that really bring us to this moment of community connection, hope and hope for a greater conscious awakening that we're in the process of and how we can hold ourselves and each other together. So thank you so much for just allowing me to engage and for our audience to hear you.

Thank you. Oh, thank you so much as well. And it's been a pleasure. Thank you for tuning in to Doctor Talks. We hope today's episode has enlightened and inspired you on your path to optimal health. Each day is a new opportunity to make choices that empower your wellbeing. For more insights and strategies, subscribe to our podcast and visit our website w ww dot. Doctor Talksport.com. Stay connected. Stay healthy and join us next time on Doctor Talks. Real talks from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most.