Anxious? Stop Blaming Your Nervous System — Start Clearing Your Sinuses

Why Sinus Inflammation Affects Mental Health 0:00

Remember why this matters is for basically chronic sinus inflammation from these tiny exposures equals constant inflammatory signaling to the brain. That is the overlap between this nose on your face and your mental emotional experience and your immune strength. So it's really determining your ability to be successful at being yourself if you're always inflamed and you're always frustrated and stressed out because of these tiny toxic exposures you don't really know what your personality is underneath them.

If you're overwhelmed with chronic health symptoms and still don't have answers, you're not alone. I'm Dr. Javin, and on redefining wellness with Dr. Javin, we'll be exploring root causes like Lyme disease, mold and parasites, and I'll guide you with simple and practical steps towards real healing. Hi, and welcome back to the redefining wellness podcast. I'm your host Dr. J. Ben Moore. And today a dear friend Sinclair Keneally is who I'm going to be talking with. She is a world renowned expert in all things detox, whether it's her liver reset.

And today we're going to be talking a lot about sinuses. So going to the other end of the spectrum of what she likes to flush out. So I hope you all enjoy this conversation because I know I will. I'm excited to learn what she's doing because it's always on the cutting edge. So thank you for being here today. Oh, it's so fun to be here with you always, Jayvon. So yeah, let's dive right in. Let's nerd out. All right. So, you know, the first question, because if anybody's ever wondering, this is how this works.

I asked her to come on here and she will send me some of the questions that help me to know what to ask her if she's on the cutting edge or something, because we get to talk multiple times a year. But as I was going through her questions, it was like, sinus this, sinus that, brain this, mental health that. And I'm like, oh, somebody's got like a new trajectory, a new passion that she's after because it's usually butt stuff. Like, hey, it's usually some sort of coffee enema. It's usually a gallbladder flush.

I'm like, OK, so what are we going to be putting in my nose to flush this out next week after I learn what you're talking about? So why sinuses? Because we're in a mental health crisis and it's still completely divorced from the actual root causes of it. And we are just allowing our culture to drift into this reactivity and this hysteria and people have less access to, you know, their ability to think, their ability to feel and recenter themselves. and take responsibility for their own experience and they don't even realize that a big part of it is what they're breathing in.

So if we want to change this conversation and change our experience as a collective and a community, you literally have to go to the sinuses to do that. I completely agree and I'm going to give a personal story for everybody. I moved into a house a couple years ago. I renovated a farmhouse. Don't ever do that unless you want a lot of stress. And we gutted the whole thing and started over and I love my home now.

Personal Exposure Story and Radon Discovery 2:53

I didn't finish the full basement. I'm in Missouri where we have basements for those of you who don't know what that's like. It's this dark dungeon place, right? And so we just didn't do much with it and it had some cracks in it and there were no windows and we just really didn't go down there. It was kind of storage garage, that sort of thing. Well, I've got a kid and he likes to have space to play and in Missouri it's not warm in the winter. So I was like, I'm going to start to finish this thing out just to give them a little more space to play.

We sealed the floor. We started bringing it to life. And I started just having this like six sense of things. And I was just like, something is wrong. Something is wrong in the house. I don't know what it is. I didn't feel sick. And I'm one of those people that, that I'm like the warrior genotype is what Dr. Jess always tells me. Like, I just don't feel anything. But. I got a sense that something was wrong and I went on Amazon and I ordered a radon testing machine and I put it in the basement and our radon was 12. It's supposed to be below 3 if you want to be healthy.

At 3 it's like smoking a pack of cigarettes I think a week. At 4 it's like a pack of cigarettes a day. At 12 there's no reference point. Like, it's just bad. And I was like, holy crap, I need to fix this. Well, I call this random guy in Kansas City, Radon Run. And he is an engineer that speaks for universities and speaks for pediatric associations on Radon. And I'm like, wait a minute. How did I bump into this guy? And he's talking to me about some of the studies he's done on VOCs and radon simply by putting a mitigation system under your slab.

And that just came to mind because you're talking about sinuses and he's like, yeah, it gets rid of like allergies he's seen. And this is not even just the radon, just the VOCs. It gets rid of the sinuses, some of the histamine response, some of the allergies, some of the breathing issues, the tight lungs, the throat. So it just makes me think about So many things we could breathe in that nobody has a clue. I'm a professional and I test for radon for clients all the time. And I just didn't test my basement.

It's literally on my paperwork for every client to make sure that they've done it. And when I renovated the house, like, well, we're not down there. That's usually the problem. And then I went upstairs and I tested my upstairs after I tested my downstairs with this machine and it was six. And I was like, okay. So I'm on a mission to talk about that now. So, sinuses, brain, mental health, what we're breathing in is so incredibly important and I'm glad you're bringing it up. Yeah, I think that your story is actually a really good example of what happens.

And you're a health practitioner, and you actually help people assess for this yourself. And it took you a minute to realize that it was your own issue. That's everybody in the US right now. Because when we think about it, sinuses sit millimeters away from the brain. And those cranial nerves actually have a direct connection between the sinuses themselves and going deep into the brain. So your limbic system at any given time has the ability to get set off and you can create instant dysregulation of the nervous system body-wide if you get some irritants into your nose.

And that's really important to take into account when you're considering mental health issues, immune issues, because this is your neuroimmune interface. It's right on the front of your face. And it's not designed to detox things out. It's designed to filter out things like dust and microbes within a healthy microbiome, and your immune system is there to support that, but it's not actually designed as a detox organ. So when you're inhaling things like VOCs, from paint and from your Ikea cabinets that are just silently off-gassing a couple years later or that rug that you bought that they called green because it recycled water bottles and turned them into fibers that now break apart every time you walk on them and now

How Sinuses Connect to the Brain and Nervous System 7:00

you're inhaling that. or mold, which you and I have both been through horror stories of mold and our entire practices are filled with people who are recovering from mold. All of these pieces need to be taken into account. Like Michael and I left the Pacific Northwest because we could not tolerate the summer fires anymore. We were in this beautiful little mountain town, but we would get socked in by the wildfire smoke every summer and it got worse and worse and it absolutely changes your brain. So I think it's unconscionable to call yourself a practitioner or a mental health professional in this day and age and not understand how toxins are impacting the sinuses and therefore disrupting the nervous system and the brain itself.

And I got really frustrated at these... I know I'm going to be a little feisty today. Sorry about that. I mean, I started talking about bud stuff on the first of this podcast. You can be as feisty as you want. These guys on the internet, like the Instagram celebrities that talk about the nervous system, like, you don't need a detox, just take my nervous system course. And their personal trainers or their life coaches or therapists, I think they all mean well, but they're in their own little echo chamber.

and they're not realizing that this is a whole new form of gaslighting, and they're refusing to take responsibility for learning the factors and the root causes of mental health issues in this day and age. Your nervous system is a part of your body, guys. Let's get it together. These neurotoxins are extremely irritating to the nervous system, and they have a direct impact on it. So, of course, they're going to have a direct impact on your ability to feel safe in your body and your ability to upregulate digestion, detox, drainage, and repair.

There's my next Instagram post right there. It's the, uh, when, when all the nervous system work doesn't work anymore, when, when your positive self-affirmations aren't enough to get rid of your anxiety. And by no means people do I think nervous system work is bad. I love it. I recommend it every single day. We were early to that conversation. We're trying to teach people about it, but it's one layer. So it's not to diminish it. It's just to say it needs to go with the actual detox part. Absolutely.

I have talked recently and some of the podcasts that I've been on and one of the things that I like to talk about is the neurotoxic loop. And it's exactly what you're talking about right now. It's there's a toxin problem and there's a neurology or a nervous system problem and you can have one that triggers the other or vice versa. And when your nervous system's a wreck, it's going to let infections and toxins accumulate. When you have toxins and infections accumulating from mold in your home or a bacterial overgrowth or digestive tract parasites in your body.

Well, guess what's going to happen. Your body's going to get stressed out. You're going to feel anxious, irritable, overwhelmed, and you're not going to feel good. And it's not for people to say that nervous system wouldn't help that it does to a point. And maybe it helps you enough that you feel somewhat balanced for an hour. or a day, but it doesn't stick. And that tells you maybe there's something else that you need to be doing. So I, I agree when you are in an environment that is unsafe for whatever reason that may be, whether it's human parasites or mold, VOCs, it's really hard to feel settled.

And I like the sinus pathway that you're talking about now, because most people don't realize all the things that you mentioned earlier, like, thinking about, well, I bought this nice carpet and now when I walk on it, it slowly disintegrates and sends microplastics into my brain. I know that, as you can imagine, I mean, you and I both know we're a lot of fun at parties, always talking about, well, watch out for that, and did you think about that? But the truth is, all of this is fixable, guys. This is not like something to get frustrated about and give up on.

This is, we're talking about it because it is so reversible. Your anxiety is optional, and there is a biochemical component to it. your depression is optional and there's a biochemical component to it. And I say that as somebody who grew up in a very chaotic environment with a lot of big T and little T trauma, like I score very high on the ACEs score or test. So I don't say any of that to diminish what we've all lived through, but I know for sure That we are designed to be extremely resilient beings and naturally ground back towards center, naturally be able to settle ourselves and naturally be able to heal from these big life challenges.

We're not meant to be stuck in fight, flight, or collapse. Yeah. The resilience of the body is incredible when you give it the opportunity. But you got to take the steps to get there and you got to do your due diligence. And you know, the funny thing is, You don't have to be as on guard the rest of your life. Once you get well and you build some adaptations, you just simply have to figure out what's necessary for you in my opinion. And then you find that balance, right? You find like the point where you're like, I'm good.

And then you just do some things to maintenance and for different people, that's different levels. Like for me, I can get away with a little bit more than my girlfriend. She absolutely cannot get away with as much as I can. We're built differently. I outweigh her by 80 pounds. I can probably handle carrying a little more toxin around. There's a little more muscle mass, a little more androgen testosterone, right? So there's just a difference. And even how we process the world, there's a difference, right?

Like she's got the more mothering type energy. She's very nurturing. And I'm very much the athlete type.

Common Inhaled Toxins: Mold, VOCs, Smoke, and Metals 13:00

I'm like, let's go. Let's figure this out. Let's get to it. And so when you work with people, when you think about yourself, I always ask clients, I go, you know, is there, is there any chance that, you know, as you look back across your life that you have, I don't know, any tendencies toward people pleasing perfectionism, any sort of OCD or even A type, right? Do you have any of those tendencies? And it seems like a large swath of the people I work with, the answer is yes. And I'm like, hmm, that's a pattern.

Are you seeing patterns like that? Yeah, absolutely. Are you kidding? There's something that happens when you're geared towards hypervigilance. So as kids, we're very sensitive, right? And we choose to strategize and try to survive in our environments based on the level of chaos around us. And we're always picking different roles to balance out the family system. So for me, as the oldest daughter, hypervigilant to everybody else's needs, right? And definitely perfectionistic. Didn't want to be told what to do.

Wanted to be able to anticipate. what you wanted from me, you know, and who gets sick the most and for the longest. Oh, hi, over here. Ding, ding, ding. And it's okay. You know, we can, we can own this. We can be tender about it and laugh about it because it doesn't mean we're stuck with anything, but it certainly helps to be able to recognize like, oh, I'm wasting all this energy on hypervigilance, you know, in my relationships. And that's also the experience that's happening internally at a biochemical level as well.

You know, what I tell people all the time is like, if you're spending a lot of time, effort, energy on hypervigilance, the worry, the perfectionism, if you're spending a lot of energy on that, you know, where it's not going. wherever else your body needs to put it, whether that's defending off a flu or dealing with mold toxicity, or for that matter, having the fun of going and playing with your kid. That energy might get burnt out over here versus going to do the things you want to do. So when people are like, I'm just not motivated.

I'm like, well, is it a lack of your desire to want to do it? Or it is a lack of your body having the capacity to do it. And you start framing it in that way and like, huh, It starts opening the doors. So I want to kind of drag us back into the sinus thing because as we get into like the mental health piece, we can go a long way, but then we end up being like those trainers you were talking about a little bit and stepping away from like what potentially is being missed by so many, which is what are the top things that are going to get into our sinuses that you see as a common problem?

Well, yeah, and we remember why this matters is we're basically chronic sinus inflammation from these tiny exposures equals constant inflammatory signaling to the brain. That is the overlap between this nose on your face and your mental emotional experience and your immune strength. So it's really determining your ability to be successful at being yourself if you're always inflamed and you're always frustrated and stressed out because of these tiny toxic exposures you don't really know what your personality is underneath it.

And your sense of humor is still there. Your resilience is still under there. Your ability to focus is still under there after you clean the stuff out. So what we're referring to is mold spores, because we know how many water damaged buildings there are in the United States. My goodness, over 85% of buildings in the US, a study shows, have been water damaged at some point, and it doesn't take much. for any water damage to turn into mold, does it? And we know that mycotoxins made by mold are extremely inflammatory and they get processed right from the sinuses, right into the blood brain barrier, like right past it.

Highly inflammatory, right? Absolutely. They can wreak some people's world. I've seen people with too many mycotoxins through an ERMI test or a building biologist that it took two or three different remediations to get it down to a livable level. That doesn't mean zero, by the way, for people listening. It doesn't mean that you have to get to zero. It means it has to be down to a livable level for you because zero doesn't really exist except for in those vacuum sealed laboratory rooms. Once we got down to that level, it was just like a weight starts to lift off.

It's not immediate. I'm not trying to say you immediately are well. I'm saying that you get a weight lifted off that allows for us to start taking the next step. So what else besides the mycotoxins are people breathing in? So we've got to remember that a little bit of toxic exposure goes a long way. We've already mentioned VOCs, so off-gassing stuff from your cabinets, from your building materials, and also air pollution in general. There's no away from air pollution in this day and age, whether you're a country mouse or a city mouse.

You've got car exhaust and industrial pollution in areas that are more populated, but also out in farm country, people can get sick really fast from inhaling these crop drift experiences of herbicides, pesticides, and you don't have any control over that. So that's a really frustrating experience to realize, but it's also, since it is fixable, it's okay to look at this head on and we need to acknowledge just how harmful they are to the nervous system. It's not, oh, someday you'll get cancer from this, although that might be true because one in two people in our lifetimes are going to experience cancer.

That's a really big deal. But in the meantime, you're going to lose the experience of who you are because you'll be exhausted and reactive because of these small exposures. So it's important to understand the broad range of toxic exposures. Assume that you have inhaled this stuff. It's not just the, oh, the sharp, I love the sharpie smell. And then when I capped the Sharpie, it went away. No, you love the Sharpie smell, the people who are addicted to that because it's excitatory, it's neuroinflammatory and it will excite your nerves to death.

And the last one I want to ask about just because you're a Californian girl out there with your clinic. Yeah. Fires. I know, right? We have to remember that wildfires are not actually wild anymore because the trees have been absorbing air pollution. And, you know, there's a big national conversation going on, actually international conversation by going, what is in that air pollution right now. I've got over 20 states with active legislation on the ballot about what should we be allowed to spray in our skies?

And our trees are absorbing all of that.

Symptoms of Toxic Sinus Inflammation 19:48

So they're absorbing air pollution like in the Pacific Northwest. We can measure for years now the air pollution that comes over from Asia manufacturing practices up and around the jet stream and gets absorbed into our trees. So we've got a really high amount of cadmium, aluminum, tin, and all those structures that burn when a wildfire burns. So power lines, things like that, that can drift for hundreds of miles and stay in this nanoparticulate form for up to weeks. So assume, you know, if you've been near wildfire smoke, that you are also inhaling heavy metals.

It's not just ash from our sweet trees. So just to bring it together if I gave him a checklist, I like lists, right? So we got mold, VOCs, plastics, smoke and metals. I brought up radon and then VOCs, like you said, coming off of the Honestly, kind of the cheap stuff, the China stuff, especially in your house, it can come out of the paint, it can come off the floors, the glue in the floors. So that new car, new house smell, that's VOCs, by the way, everyone. That's not a good smell for your body.

Now, you talked about, okay, so the stuff's coming in through the sinuses. It's immediately hitting and creating inflammation in the sinus pathway, which is so close to your brain. It's triggering brain symptoms. We're getting neuroinflammation from the sinus inflammation. And I mean, we've briefly mentioned some symptoms. What does that look like on a person? It looks like anxiety. It looks like panic. It looks like intrusive thoughts. It looks like being more reactive and having disproportionate stressors to, or disproportionate reactions to stressors.

Like I would stand in line at a coffee shop and if there were two people ahead of me, I would be in a war with them. So mad at them that they were taking so long. So mad at the barista. It's really just that I didn't have the energy to stand there because I was living in mold and there was enough of it colonizing my sinuses that I was hearing it around with me all day long. So these are important things to remember. This is not your temperament. This is what your neuroimmune interface has done with these reactions, these exposures.

So other ones that are really common, depression, brain fog, dissociation, irritability, and they are frequently misdiagnosed as a solely mental health issue. And that's why I'm so passionate about talking about this more because this is so fricking fixable, but you have to understand what is going on in the sinuses before you go in there and apply the wrong tools. We can talk about that too. But physical symptoms look like histamine sensitivity, histamine overload, Now we're seeing this explosion, you and I and our practices, we're just talking about this, of MCAS, right?

Our clinics are full of people with MCAS now. And that never used to be the case and it's all these factors coming together. We're decades into this experiment now, and the bill is coming due. You add in a little mold and some poorly maintained buildings on top of that, boom, you got yourself a serious sinus problem that is impacting your temperament and your immune system. So if you get sick more easily than you used to, if you're more reactive to smells than you used to be. You know, one of the key signs that we actually, you and I both gauge people with, if they're sensitive to light and sound, we want to actually look at what they have inhaled in, right?

So these are important clues for us. Rashes, let us know, point back to the histamine sensitivity piece and your skin trying to act as a second liver because you set up this inflammatory process in the body and right when you need to be the best detoxer possible, you have less access to those resources. because your nervous system is irritated, so it's down-regulating digestion and detox right when you want to speed it up. Now, your nervous system's not making a mistake. It's not fragile. So please unfollow those people that are joking about the nervous system, like, you're broken.

It's fragile. By my course. You are so brilliant, and your body is so good at reclaiming its capacity. But it's not making a mistake.

Testing for Inhaled Toxins 24:18

by reacting to these things. So we start by acknowledging that, recognizing the signs connecting those dots. And yeah, we could talk about air filtration strategies for the home. We could talk about sinus rinsing, you know, and what doesn't work. I think it's really important to cover that as well. Well, let's dive into the first part, which is when these people come into you and You're seeing them, obviously you're going through all these questionnaires, you're figuring out what their life looks like, but what labs or testing are you doing to identify this person falls into a category where there's probably some sort of inhaled toxin.

Yeah. So it's an easy thing for us to run, you know, like the total tox labs because they're a urine test kit that people can do even if they're, you know, housebound because they don't feel well. So at least that is, is a quick win. You don't have to go in and get blood work to start looking at this. Like we find gas leaks all the time for people that are active in their homes because of what's on their toxin labs. You get some 2-HIB going and a few of those other industrial chemicals and we start saying, have you checked your gas stove and your water heater lately?

Do you have a fireplace? Has it been maintained? Is it a gas fireplace? We need to start asking those questions early. And it's such an easy test to do because you could do it right at home. It's always nice to be able to send something home with somebody and just have them pee in a cup, not even have to get, you know, a needle stuck in, which is, I guess for some people, it's nothing. Others are like... When you got me putting on social media the other day, I did a still-it-gingling block into my neck, which is like a two and a half inch needle, you know, ultrasound guided.

And they're like, well, did that really help you with your nervous system? Like, for my clients, it has. For me, I did it just to say I did because I won't tell you to do anything I'm not going to do. But I'm just sitting like, oh, don't move, don't sneeze, don't think. But yeah, at home testing. I don't know about that, but fear of steel going into my neck is there. So you got a really good test there. I like the total toxic test a lot too. So then let's go to the next step. What are you doing for people?

I always want to know what you're doing for people because you see a lot of the same kinds of people I see that are extremely sensitive, extremely reactive. Their bodies are stuck in fight, flight, freeze. What are you doing for them? Well, I think what we're doing is just as important as what not to do. So let's start there because a lot of people who are aware that they have sinus issues have already gotten into this rhythm of antibiotics for it multiple times a year. Like, oh, here comes another sinus infection.

This is just something that happens around this time of year for me. I can't clear it easily. It's time to go get some antibiotics. And antibiotics are a great tool when properly applied. But when you're using them to try to clear sinus issues, a few things happen that you did not intend. You're pushing an already dysbiotic sinus microbiome further out of balance. And now opportunistic pathogens have way more space to party in there afterwards.

Treating Sinus Issues and Supporting Drainage 27:30

And so you're actually increasing susceptibility over time and increasing dysbiosis over time by turning to that. And similarly, like nasal corticosteroids, another example, you can get a short-term reduction in swelling from them, but they don't fix what's causing the inflammation in the first place. And then corticosteroids themselves have to become something that your body has to deal with and try to figure out how to detox. And you know, as much as you and I both love like a really well-designed supplement protocol, oral supplementation is not going to clean out the sinus tissues.

You know, so, and you and I both have like a really strong focus on like the drainage funnel and our practices. Like that's why people call me the liver lady because they're always asking me to speak about the liver, you know, and like make sure that everything is clearing out, moving out. But when you think about it, the brain drains last. So do the sinuses. The sinuses are the top of our gut microbiome. So if you have any pathogenic response to these toxins in the sinuses themselves, and you do.

If you've inhaled any air pollution at all, you've got cute little biofilms and pathogens that are opportunistic, that are coming in to hold those for you, and they're taking advantage of a locally suppressed immune system because of the location of those toxins, right in that moist, damp environment. So you are impacting your body's ability to drain the sinuses, and also you are clogging up the lymphatics, which means you're clogging up your brain's drainage system, which is your glymphatic system, and suddenly you are seeing a whole backup of your brain's ability to clear because you've got some localized infections in here that you tried to throw antibiotics at and steroids at, and it's not working.

So we've got to step away from those tools and be thinking about the drainage funnel in general. Those best practices absolutely apply. We don't want to skip them. We want to be doing manual lymphatic drainage, but we actually need to go straight to the sinuses themselves and be nebulizing with certain formulas. And yes, I do like nebulizing too. So what formulas are you using these days? So you'll see online people that's very popular to do like different hydrogen peroxide nebulizing. And yes, that is very effective for the sinuses and the lungs, but we actually only teach that within a course or a practice because it's easy to get it wrong.

So please, if you're playing around with hydrogen peroxide as a tool, be careful because you can overdo it and you can hurt yourself. So please be intentional and please be conservative in your usage would be my recommendation to you. I really like nebulizing ozonated glycerin. You know, it's a newer tool. It's not actually new. This was a big deal back in the early 1900s. And of course it got surprised at like the era of the Flexner report. Surprise, surprise, right? And then Japan had a big resurgence of using ozonated glycerin.

There's some really cool data coming out about it. When you nebulize, ozonated glycerin, like we teach us in rapid sinus rescue, for example. I'll just tell you how to do it right now. You can, if you dilute it enough, you can use a mesh nebulizer for it. And what will happen is you're getting the benefits of ozone therapy right in these delicate sinus tissues and right in the lungs, which cannot tolerate ozone. typically, but you're getting the benefits because you're getting the ozonides reacted in the glycerin.

And because it's a glycerin base, all these pathogenic microbes are coming and going, sugar, that's what I want. And then they eat it and they die because of the ozonated glycerin. It's so cool. And because you have also this delayed release with ozonated glycerin, which is different than like immediate sinus insufflations, which we also teach. There's definitely a time and a place for those, but you get hit with all the ozone all at once. And for sensitive people, that can be too much. So with ozonated glycerin, you get this great delayed release of the benefits over actually up to a couple of weeks is what early studies show.

Love it. Fun, right? Sinus, from sinus, you know, I'm just in here thinking of all the different things that you've taught over the years that I've listened and learned and been in trainings of that you've put together and it's always adding something to your body from some orifice. Now it's glycinated ozone, it's hydrogen peroxide. I'm actually curious about some of this because I haven't done all of those tools on myself yet.

Ozonated Glycerin and Custom Sinus Care 32:18

And sinuses, yes, they absolutely can be the roadblock that keeps somebody from being able to move forward. No different than the gallbladder, the liver, the gut, the, you know, you name it. The thing about health and what I love about your systems that you put together for people is it's custom. Yeah, you have all these tools, but you fit it uniquely to the person. There's no one size fits all. Everybody does the same thing because that just doesn't work for the people we work with. I love having conversations with you like we did before.

We even got some recording today because it's just refreshing to hear somebody is like, yeah, this is going on. This is going on and here's some things we're working on. And you know, that thing over there is kind of hard and we're trying to figure it out. And I love just being able to listen to you and how your brain works because it's from a place of compassion, but also A systematic approach is gonna have results. Thanks, man. That means so much coming from you. You know, I feel the same way about you and your willingness to experiment and just always with an eye towards being an advocate for people and making sure this is accessible.

Like you and I can afford Ibu. You and I can, you know, we can, for a certain population in our patients, you know, through our practices, we can take care of people with these expensive therapies, but we have to make sure that we still have access to materials that is going to help the whole population. We have to keep that front and center. No. Well, I really appreciate you giving me the time to interview you today, given the listeners, some ideas for sinuses. Like she said, don't go do it on your own.

Jump on a training, find a practitioner that can support you, sticking things in your nose that don't belong without proper dosing is a bad idea. Um, but where can people find you so they can get some of the information about how to do some of these new sinuses? Oh, thanks, man. You can come find us at DetoxNation.com and our podcast Detox Nation. We've got to get you on there again. It's been too long. And you can find me on Sinclair Canale on Instagram and YouTube, all the fun things. There you go, everybody.

Look her up, find her, follow her. She's brilliant and passionate. And thank you for coming on. Until the next time, signing off. Thank you for tuning in to redefining wellness with Dr. Javin. If this episode spoke to you, please follow and share this podcast with someone who is ready to take control of their chronic health symptoms. Also, please consider leaving a review. It helps more people find the show. See you here again.