Surviving and Thriving through Menopause

Andrea Donsky

I am, yes.

Kashif Khan

We’re gonna talk about that a little later. So Andrea is a nutritionist. She runs Naturally Savvy, which a lot of you have probably already been to and seen and heard, been on TV all over the place, trying to help people with their health, and in that journey you became an entrepreneur because you said that here’s something that I need to fix and I need to do myself. And we just looked at your brain genetics, we understand why you went down that path and you decided to build a business out of it. So, first of all, thanks for coming.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, it’s good. So now you, Andrea, the nutritionist turned entrepreneur, running Naturally Savvy. We literally were just looking at your genetics before starting.

Andrea Donsky

Yep.

Kashif Khan

And what we saw was that you are a binger. So you go down this path of like, I find this thing that I like and I enjoy, and I kind of get stuck on it. And for you, it didn’t happen to be pizza or drugs or whatever, it was work.

Andrea Donsky

Yes.

Kashif Khan

And you’ve been doing it for, like you said, 20 years.

Andrea Donsky

Yes, almost 22 years in March. It’s unbelievable. And yes, I am a completely- And it makes sense now.

Kashif Khan

Yeah.

Andrea Donsky

So I’m so happy that we talked about that before, because it makes sense. I am literally 24/7 learning.

Kashif Khan

Yeah.

Andrea Donsky

And the more I learn, the happier I am. And when it comes to learning, it’s always health and wellness related.

Kashif Khan

And I remember, I don’t know, it was 10 days ago. I mentioned somebody to you and right about an hour later, you’re like, “oh, I just listened to this podcast about that thing.” I was like, “what are you talking about?” Why did you, like, as soon as we got out, you were like, “okay, I just finished.” And you listened, you understood the guy, figured him out, picked him apart, then you’re on a call with him to get to work.

Andrea Donsky

Oh yeah.

Kashif Khan

So yeah, it takes unique neural wiring to be able to do that, but that’s why you’re good at what you do.

Andrea Donsky

Oh, thank you. And now I know why genetically, which is so cool.

Kashif Khan

Yeah. So what, in this past 22 years, I know what’s been going on, but tell everybody how you got to where you are and what you’re doing.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah, I mean, it’s an incredible journey. And I always say, as an entrepreneur, I really start with where my life is at. So when I started Naturally Savvy back in 2007, it had to do with, you know, I was having kids, and I was in like very much my fertility mode and building a family and raising a family. And that’s where Naturally Savvy really kind of its sweet spot is really in those, that 25 to 45 age group.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, yeah.

Andrea Donsky

And then as I came closer to 50, I was like, ah, perimenopause and menopause. And that’s where I’m at in my life right now, which is why I’m starting a brand new company. And just literally speaking to women in perimenopause and menopause. So it kind of my entrepreneurial journey follows really where I am in my life.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, and so many sort of call it like functional medicine type stories come from this. I needed something for me, and here’s what I figured out that worked. And I notice I’m not getting this advice from anyone else. And I notice that the other women don’t know about this thing yet. And that’s what your entrepreneurial mind would drive you into “I’m gonna help more people.”

Andrea Donsky

Oh yeah. I mean, that is literally my pleasure. Like we were talking about what drives pleasure. And for me, it’s helping people. Well, helping myself understanding it, so then I can explain it to others and help others on their journey.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, and I remember working with you earlier on, in fact, when we weren’t even The DNA Company yet, we didn’t even know what we were. We, you know, we were researching, learning, we knew we had something, but we didn’t structure it yet. I met with you, it was in Anaheim at a huge trade show. We were introduced.

Andrea Donsky

Expo West.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, Expo West. Massive. I was exhausted walking through that thing, but there was like, you know, some protein chickpeas all the way up to rare ingredients that you can’t buy anywhere else in the world.

Andrea Donsky

It’s the best, I miss it.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, and that’s where you immediately took interest and just broke it apart and understood it. And I was like, “oh, what’s this, “where’d this brain come from?”

Andrea Donsky

I love it.

Kashif Khan

And then we worked together on some media stuff. But since then, you’ve shifted gears, like you said, because of your own personal journey into focusing on solving menopause problems.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah. So, you know, it’s interesting. I have three children. And I had my first two when I was in my thirties, 33, 35. And then I had my third when I was 41.

Kashif Khan

Okay.

Andrea Donsky

And in my mind I was like, okay, so I’m 41. And my mom had a hysterectomy, so I don’t even know when she would’ve went into menopause naturally. And I had my third at 41, and for some reason in my brain, I’m like, wait, because I had a child at 41, I’m thinking fertile, I’m thinking, you know, everything’s working well, I thought I wouldn’t go into menopause or didn’t even kind of come into my mind until I was in my mid-fifties.

Kashif Khan

Right.

Andrea Donsky

So when I turned 42, things started to happen. I started gaining a lot of weight. My mood started to become really erratic. I started to get, you know, night sweats, things just were kind of shifting. And I didn’t really understand what it was until I was 47, when I got my first hot flash. And that’s when I was like, oh, hot flash.

Kashif Khan

Yeah.

Andrea Donsky

Menopause. That’s what made the connection. I never thought, you know, waking, I never thought mood swings. I never thought all those other things that come with we now know more than 85 different signs and symptoms of menopause, but really what did it for me was that hot flash, because that’s the most common one. We know like more than 75% of women in menopause have hot flash. So that’s what led me down my journey. And I remember thinking to myself, like, first of all, I couldn’t function. Like the hot flashes were so bad. They were many, many times a day. They would last for like 30 seconds each. They’d go in then come back again. And I remember looking at my husband and I thought, I’m a nutritionist. This is what I do for a living. How is this happening to me? Like, I was so confused. I didn’t understand, I felt like I had no one to talk to. I felt really alone and embarrassed. And I thought, okay, so I have two choices. And I looked at my husband and I said, I can’t go on like this, this isn’t gonna happen. This is not a quality of life, I am miserable.

Kashif Khan

Yeah.

Andrea Donsky

Like miserable. And I tried everything under the sun, natural supplements. At that time I didn’t know much about hormones, and I tried supplements, nothing was working for me, and I thought, okay, I’m gonna take matters into my own hand, and I’m gonna do my own research. And this is where I put my binging to work. I’m gonna use that terminology because I absolutely love it. And that’s when I put it to work, and I literally haven’t stopped researching since that day, since I was 47, now I’m 52, just turned 52 recently. And I have figured out how to help my hot flashes, how to help my night sweats, and obviously as time went on, more and more symptoms started to appear. But that’s when things started to make sense to me and said, okay, now this is gonna be my career.

Kashif Khan

So when you talk to the average person, you go down the street, talk to 10 people, menopause. They’re gonna talk about hot flashes. They’re gonna talk about maybe aging or a hormonal change. That’s kind of it that people know.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

Unless you’ve been through it, but you’re saying there’s 85 symptoms.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah, I mean, one of the things, part of my personality is tracking. And when I do my research is I really love to learn from as many people as possible. So I always say I learned from myself as that N-of-1, so I’m that one person. But then I also listen, I do a lot of social listening and a lot of listening to people who are in this actual phase. And what we discovered was that there are in fact more than 85 different signs and symptoms. And that’s literally by me going into this doc on drive and, well, of course we had somewhere to start. We knew that there were about 40.

Kashif Khan

Okay.

Andrea Donsky

Very common signs and symptoms, but then going in and literally listening to people and going, oh, okay, here’s another one, here’s another one, here’s another one. So now the list is really way over 85, but I kind of use that as our terminology of like more than 85. So we know the most common, we call them our, well, we call them need states in terms of how we wanna help them. But we know that the most common are anxiety. So anything like brain related, anxiety, mood swings, brain fog, you know, any of that, memory, all of that plays a really big role. Sleep, massive issue for women in menopause and perimenopause. I mean, I’m on TikTok, I’m very active on TikTok, and my best performing videos are all around sleep. It is such an epidemic. It’s unbelievable to me how we have so many, and again, the whole women and women’s health thing, that’s a whole other conversation which we can or cannot get into. But you know, sleep is a big issue. We know that. So I talked about anxiety, brain, sleep, hot flashes, like we just talked about, right. And then night sweats come with that. So the hot flashes during the day and then night sweats and night energy is another big one. Right, so there’s so many big categories where women are suffering a lot. Inflammation, you know, pain in their body. So we now know that there are so many different areas where women need help. That that’s why I’m just, I’m on a mission. I’m on a mission to A, help women, but also get rid of the stigma around menopause, right? It’s not an embarrassing thing. You know, kids go through, teenagers go through or preteens go through puberty.

Kashif Khan

Right, yeah.

Andrea Donsky

Then we go through our fertility years. Then if we’re blessed to live long enough, we go through menopause and perimenopause. So if we’re blessed to live that long, we are all going to go through perimenopause and menopause at some point, right. So it’s just, it’s talking about it. It’s having the conversation. It’s getting rid of that stigma. It’s a way of life. And I remember when I was turning 50, I was super embarrassed of turning 50. So when I turned 47, 48, I was like, oh my God. I’m like a few years away from 50, 50’s so old. In my mind, I’m like, wait a minute, am I like, you know, I’m so old. It’s like crazy, the thought of it. But even though I felt like I was 30.

Kashif Khan

Yeah.

Andrea Donsky

And I remember listening to an Oprah podcast and she was saying, “I don’t understand why women are afraid to tell their age.” And she was talking to three supermodels. They were supermodels who were in their sixties at this point. She said, “because as we get older, “it just means we have so much more experience behind us.” And something just clicked, and I thought, aha. You know, Oprah and her aha moments.

Kashif Khan

Yeah.

Andrea Donsky

I was like, I got it. No more embarrassment. I’m gonna own my age. And ever since then, I tell everybody how old I am. Now I’m like, even people who don’t ask, I tell them how old I am.

Kashif Khan

That’s awesome. And those 85 symptoms, you know, when you go, the average woman who has the average medical experience, who has her pain and her hot flashes goes to the doctor first thing, right?

Andrea Donsky

Yep.

Kashif Khan

“Help me with this.” Those things that you’ve identified, is the doctor even aware of that stuff?

Andrea Donsky

So here’s where we, you know, where we do a lot of the listening. So in some cases, so what we’ve learned from, again, this is from the thousands and thousands of conversations that I’ve listened to or had with women, is in many cases, doctors don’t really know. So they don’t learn about it in school. And a lot of it will come from their patients and how their patients come to it. So some doctors will tell their patients that they’re too young to be in menopause. So I hear that over and over and over again, and these are women who are in their forties. So what we understand now is that perimenopause can really start anytime after the age of 35. In some cases it’s even happening earlier. I’ve heard from many women who are saying they’re like in their late twenties or early thirties who are experiencing perimenopause. 

So I would say in that case, you know, doctors don’t really know, and it’s not their fault, they’re learning, right. And in many cases, they’re learning from the people who are in front of them, from the women in front of them. So I just feel like as time goes on that, I always say we have to empower the people around us. And that includes our healthcare professionals, is to say, well, here’s what I learned, so here are the symptoms. We know that there can be these symptoms and, you know, perimenopause and menopause, here’s what I’m going through, and here’s, you know, take it to your healthcare professional to explain it to them because they’ll need explaining as well. So unfortunately I feel that, you know, we’re not listened to as much as I’d like, we’re not there yet, I think. I think it’s going there, but I think it’s not there yet in terms of, you know, understanding fully what women are going through.

Kashif Khan

I think what a lot of what you’re talking about also in terms of, you know, it’s supposed to be this way, meaning that the perception of the doctor, right, 25, too young, 35, too young, is based on sort of old data, meaning that here’s what a woman is designed for. But guess what? Here’s the environment we actually live in today, right? Endocrine disruptors, chemicals, something as simple as a Teflon pan that’s coated in chemicals that were never meant to be in your body. You know, you’re on hormone therapy, you take a birth control pill for 15 years, right? So none of that, what we refer to as like the epigenetics, that load that you’re putting on whatever your map is, is taken into account and why all of a sudden does a 35 year old woman have a 55 year old problem.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

Because she’s accelerated by 25 years, not of her own doing, by not understanding that the water she drank or the chemicals she, or wherever she worked was an additional catalyst.

Andrea Donsky

100%.

Kashif Khan

Right? So that’s not something that you can then, you’re in the position I have the menopause now. The decisions, the problems, that was already done.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

So that’s more education. People need to know they just started early.

Andrea Donsky

Education, yeah, and genetics play a big role. So how did your mother go through menopause? And many of us aren’t speaking to our mother about that, we’re speaking to our mother, but I’m saying we’re not specifically about menopause. So we’re always encouraging, speak to your mother, your aunt, speak to somebody in your family. You know, if your mother’s no longer around, do you know, did she talk about it? And I’m very open with my mother, and even on my TikTok, I have my conversations with mom. And I’m like, okay, mom, so what was it like for you? In my mother’s generation, nobody spoke about it. My grandmother, nobody spoke about it.

Kashif Khan

Yeah taboo, it’s like embarrassing.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah. So it’s about having that conversation and having it with your kids too. So I’ve got three kids, I have a boy, an 18 year old. He, I mean, he wants to like, shrivel up and go into a ball about embarrassment, the fact that I’m on TikTok talking about menopause. But he told me recently, which I thought was super cool. So he’s at university and he’s in residence. And he was telling me that the girls on his floor, so these are 18 year old girls, love my TikTok page. And they love the fact that I’m talking about menopause. So I said to him, I said, “you see, first of all, I’m educating you “because I want you to be aware about what menopause is. “I had no idea going in, but you are, one day. “I want you to have this information “so that you can pass it along to your family.” But also I love the fact that other 18 year old girls are loving it because the earlier that we understand it, the more we can help with prevention, more we can help with like lifestyle and stress management and all these things that we know once we get into menopause, can have a negative effect, right. Or can really have that, you know, whatever, it can make your experience good, or maybe not as good.

Kashif Khan

And it takes the kind of work that you’re doing to create an environment for prevention.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

Otherwise we already know we’re in the very reactionary healthcare system where the toolkit is when you’re sick, call me, right.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

So it’s too late. So by the time that 35 year old woman who maybe had another 20 years, got there at 35, that requires somebody like you reaching her at 18 and teaching her here, you’re on the wrong path. You gotta go this way, right.

Andrea Donsky

I mean, absolutely taking care of our adrenals, right. Learning how to deal with stress. And the other thing that does play a factor here too, is how earlier, so I was reading some research about having a period earlier can actually make you go, well, there’s correlation between having periods earlier and going into menopause earlier. So there’s so many things at play, right?

Kashif Khan

Yeah, there actually, so just in general, one thing we’ve learned genetically, is we understand aging is kind of like the unraveling of your DNA, there’s damage that happens over time. It’s been directly correlated that the quicker you age as a teenager, the quicker you develop.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

The shorter you’re gonna live.

Andrea Donsky

Oh really?

Kashif Khan

Yeah. It’s a clear indication. So, and it’s over and over and over again, even though David Sinclair at Harvard did all the longevity stuff that they’ve been studying this and same thing with that correlate of, okay, you got into sort of puberty earlier, so you probably will hit menopause earlier. Your hormonal system is more mature. And that would also directly, you know, correlate with your age also.

Andrea Donsky

And that’s here biohacking comes in.

Kashif Khan

Yeah. That’s where the bio, yeah That’s a whole other conversation. So then these 85 symptoms, I’m sure the women are listening, saying I have 800 symptoms. There’s lots of stuff going on. So what are the things you’re doing to sort of intervene? Is it possible to say your hot flashes don’t have to be that bad?

Andrea Donsky

Yeah. I mean, so I always say I like to stay in my lane. So my lane is nutrition, lifestyle and supplements. So that’s really where I focus, but there’s also nowadays, you know, BHRT or body identical hormones. So there are different routes that we can take that are available to us today that may have not been as available to, let’s say someone like my mom, when she was going through menopause, right. So, yeah, there are so many things that we could do. Nutrition really does play a big role, especially when it comes to inflammation, because we know as we go into perimenopause and menopause, we’re more prone to inflammation. So starting with our diet is really key. So cutting out certain foods that we know create that inflammation in the body and sticking to foods that are anti-inflammatory, right. 

So we look at lifestyle, stress. I mean, it is unbelievable how much stress plays a role with so many things that are in factors that are going on. So it plays a role in blood sugar. I wear something called a CGM, a continuous glucose monitor. So I’ve tracked it when I’ve heard, you know, I’ve had a stressful event and then I’ve actually taken my blood sugar, my blood sugar goes up. So there’s so many ties into stress in terms of how it makes us feel and, you know, cortisol levels, et cetera, et cetera. So managing stress I’d have to say is probably learning how to do it. Nobody’s gonna be perfect at it. We’re all gonna, you know, we all are living in the real world. We don’t live in a bubble, but understanding how to manage stress, understanding the adrenal glands and the role that it plays with our adrenals is so important. 

And the earlier that we can figure that out is so key. And then also supplements. I’m a massive fan of supplements, and being a nutritionist, I hear often of like, you don’t need supplements, just focus on nutrition and that’ll make the whole difference. Well, I’m here to say, I don’t agree with that. I do believe we need supplementation, and for many reasons. One of the major reasons being that our food is so deficient, and our soil is deficient in minerals. So even if you’re eating, you know, your 1, 2, 3 salads a day, is it organic? And even if it’s organic, like we’re just not getting the minerals that we need and minerals are important for all the cells in our body to function properly. So there’s just so much tied into it that, yes, there’s a lot we can do to answer your question. And now there’s the whole thing around hormone therapy. Which again, it’s out of my lane, but there’s a lot of great information coming out on that as well to help.

Kashif Khan

Yeah. We had a conversation earlier with a gentleman that deals with sort of regenerative farming and he’s really studied soil to a deep degree. And that’s kind of what he said is that it’s not even about what you’re eating anymore, ’cause what isn’t what it’s labeled as? It’s not a carrot anymore, right.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

If you look at a potato from today versus a potato from 200 years ago, they don’t look the same. So whatever nutritional value, whatever you think your plate is supposed to look like versus what you’re actually eating. So I don’t know if we have to start growing our own food now, but we gotta at least start cleaning up the mess we’re in.

Andrea Donsky

And even if you’re growing your own food, making sure you’re using the right soil. And making sure you’re mineralizing it.

Kashif Khan

Yeah.

Andrea Donsky

So there’s, you know, it takes work to understand it.

Kashif Khan

The soil is dead, right. So when you scoop soil, it should be full of worms and worm castings, like the worm poop that makes it so healthy.

Andrea Donsky

Yep.

Kashif Khan

And when you do that, go anywhere and you don’t see worms because they’re all dead from pesticides and chemicals. Which is what you end up then bringing to the food and eating. So you’re eating dead food.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

So there’s no life it. Anyway, so going back to hormones, the BHRT. So we have found that there’s certain women for whom it’s like, they wouldn’t have survived without it.

Andrea Donsky

Yep.

Kashif Khan

Right. And there’s certain women for whom, and we can obviously you understand the genetics of the hormone cascade.

Andrea Donsky

Yep.

Kashif Khan

Where it’s almost like a death sentence. It’s gonna, you know, ovarian cancer, breast cancer, because the net metabolite, you know, what are you turning those hormones into? It’s not, I need testosterone, gimme testosterone. What do you do with the testosterone? So you know that people that have their genetics or some functional medicine doctor guiding them may know that, how does the average person deal with hormone therapy? Or do you need that guidance?

Andrea Donsky

Oh my God, this is probably one of my favorite things to talk about. Again, this isn’t what I speak about every day, but it is something that I’m passionate about. Let’s say personally, right. So from what I’ve learned from The DNA Company, and my genetics and understanding and doing other testing as well is, so let’s go to the metabolites for a minute. So when I’m asked my opinion of, okay, Andrea, are hormones okay for us? So my answer is, well, if it’s something that works for you, then yeah. I think it’s great. Anything that’s gonna work to make you feel better, because so many of us are suffering, I’m all for it. Just make sure A, you’re working with a proper doctor or healthcare professional that’s monitoring you and testing you.

Kashif Khan

Yeah.

Andrea Donsky

The most important thing is they understand testing and genetics.

Kashif Khan

Right. 

Andrea Donsky

And also how are your estrogens metabolizing, right? So, not just to put you on something blindly, and I did a great interview with an OBGYN this week and I was, you know, we were chatting openly about it. And she was like, absolutely. Every single patient she works with, she is testing and testing often. So I think when it comes to hormone therapy specifically, let’s say body identical or bioidentical hormones, is what’s important is when we talk about those estrogen metabolites is our estrogen breaks down into several different metabolites, And then, I mean, this is more science-y, but it goes into the 2, the 4, the 16. One of the types of estrogen in our body, they go into the 2, 4, 16. How are those metabolized? 

We know that the 2 is more protective, the 4 and the 16 is not. I know for me, for example, most of mine breaks down into the 4, which is not the good type of estrogen. So we need to hack it, for lack of a better word, is to get that 4 to go to the 2. So if you’re working with a doctor and you wanna go on on hormones, you need to understand how is your estrogen breaking down? How is it metabolizing, but also how are you methylating and how is your liver detoxification? One of the other things we found for, we find with women in menopause is that their liver can change up to 40% in volume. So they might need some extra help, or perhaps they’re taking some supplements. And this is one of the big ones, which is what led me down the road to create Morphus and to wanna do supplements, and Morphus is that there are so many women who will, who are willing to try things, but may not realize, well, wait a second, maybe this isn’t so good for my liver. For example, black cohosh. 

I was on it for years for my hot flashes. It works, but it’s not a long term solution because the research shows that it actually can cause issues with liver. And I went and I go, because I’m the tester that I am, I actually have my blood test often. And I found that it actually caused higher liver enzymes for me. And that’s when I kind of went down that, wait a minute, let me go into the research. And it shows that it actually can cause that, so yes, I mean, obviously supplements are huge and I’m a big advocate, but also understanding what you’re taking and just making sure that it’s safe for you at this phase of your life, taking all the factors into account. So, you know, I hope that answers your question.

Kashif Khan

Yeah. And I mean, you have the knowledge, somebody working with you or on your products, which we’ll talk about, you know, they’re gonna get that. But for the most part, you know, people don’t have that. Right, they don’t, it’s hard to get, they don’t even know that they should be looking for that information.

Andrea Donsky

Yep.

Kashif Khan

So when you finally get it and you land on something, how do you deal with that challenge of, well, I need my doctor to cooperate. How do I take this information to them and actually get them to use it and not tell me to, you know, that’s fu-fu science or that’s, you know, and that’s a constant challenge people have, that it’s almost an ego battle, right?

Andrea Donsky

I mean, so the thing about finding the doctor who understands is, so there are a lot of doctors who will be open to learning from their patients, right. So those are amazing doctors. So if you go in there, you’re educated, you go in there. Okay, here’s what I learned. You know, here’s what I’ve discovered and empowering yourself to do your own research. That’s one way. Another way is if you find that you’re really hitting a wall with your healthcare professional or your doctor, and they’re just, I’m not open to it at all, is to see, and I know this isn’t easy, ’cause I hear this from a lot of women as well, is to try and find a new doctor, somebody who is willing to do it. And there are some great resources out there, like the North American Menopause Society, NAMS. And so there are resources there that are, they have menopause, you know, specific healthcare providers that can help them. 

So they’re trained and they’re menopause certified. So that’s another way to go. So trying to find a practitioner who understands what you’re going through, because I am a believer that you need to work with a proper healthcare provider when it comes to this. Because especially you have to, if you wanna do hormones, right. But I think if you find the right practitioner or the right person to work with, then you’re golden because then they’ll listen to you and then they’ll help you, they’ll test you, right. ‘Cause with some of these tests, any type of blood tests, you need a doctor to order for you or in many cases, you know, for the most part you would need a doctor to help order that for you. 

So I think just going in there with the knowledge and the education, doing the research beforehand can make a really big difference. So that you’re not– So even if you are poo-pooed or shooed away or like, you know, well, I don’t believe this. You’ll be like, well, no, no, no, wait a second. Let me educate you. Let me explain it. And if they really don’t wanna listen, I mean, there’s now telehealth. There’s a lot of options online that you can find and trying to find someone who will listen to you. Or maybe going the functional medicine route, a lot of people will go the functional medicine route if they find, because then you have more of that integrative approach.

Kashif Khan

So it sounds like you have your clinician who you have this relationship with, and it’s almost embarrassing to not work with them, but consider that person your quarterback, right?

Andrea Donsky

Yes.

Kashif Khan

That’s like that triage where you start. But if you have a Ferrari, you don’t take it to Ford to service and vice versa, go to the specialist who knows that topic, that subject matter, you’re dealing with menopause, whatever it is, find that person, it’s your right to do that, right. To go find that specialist.

Andrea Donsky

Absolutely.

Kashif Khan

Like you said, go to the NAM’s website, they’re there. They’re there for this purpose. You don’t need to have that struggle or problem. In fact, when you talked about testing, right? So even something like that, when do you test, if you’re taking a DUTCH test, for example, and you’re not familiar with the circadian rhythm of the hormone, what’s going on monthly, that test could mean many different things. The result could mean many different things. And if you’re not working with a specialist, they may not even know that nuance and then the results are completely wrong for you. So I don’t know, have you had that experience where testing at different times of the month means different things?

Andrea Donsky

Well, yeah. So there are no actual tests to diagnose, let’s say perimenopause, because our hormones are up and down. It’s really, you can’t look at a blood test because it’s a snippet in time to say, oh yeah, you’re for sure in perimenopause. So that’s where it gets a little bit more difficult. So that’s why a healthcare practitioner or a doctor will say, okay, what are your symptoms? So it’ll be, you know, and I don’t love to use the word diagnose because it denotes a disease and menopause isn’t a disease, it’s a time in our life, right, it’s a phase of life. But we’ll use it for just for the ease of vocabulary and understanding. So we’ll look at, you know, doctors will look at symptoms. Doctors will ask you like, they’ll look at genetics. Like when did your mother go into perimenopause as well? So there are certain things. And like there’s also certain blood markers that you can look at so that it won’t make, maybe it won’t give you the exact diagnosis, but it can kind of help.

The other thing is once you’re in menopause, that’s where blood tests will really come in handy because then you’ll know for sure what your blood markers are at and where you’re at in menopause. And there’s other things as well, like they look at FSH. So there’s different results that they can look at. So going back to the DUTCH test for a minute, is that, although it may not be the official diagnosis, it can definitely help you. It can definitely look to say, okay, well, here’s what’s kind of looking a little bit like this might be perimenopause, right. Especially if you’re on the younger end of it. So that’s where you’re kind of like, well, if you’re in your mid to late forties, you’re like, well, chances are, if I’m having a lot of these symptoms, that there’s a good chance it might be perimenopause. Of course I wanna speak to my doctor and find out if it is for sure. But if you’re on the younger end, you’re like, wait, is this perimenopause, or do I need a liver cleanse? Right?

Kashif Khan

Yeah.

Andrea Donsky

So like, am I getting a hot flash because, or maybe is my thyroid low, or is my liver a little bit congested? So there can be other things that come into play. And the one thing that I will always tell women, and this is kind of a starting point, and I think it’s a really important thing to mention, is that you have to look at, have your thyroid tested because thyroid is crucial, obviously for many, you know, for most of what’s going on in our body, but have your thyroid tested and do six different types of thyroid tests. So don’t just look at your TSH, which is your thyroid stimulating hormone. Look at your free T3, your free T4, your reverse T3, your TPO, your TG, which are your antibodies, right. Look at your ferritin levels. Look at your iron, where is that at? Look at your vitamin D levels. So these are definitely when you’re going, if you’re in perimenopause and you’re like, hey, is this the stage I’m in? Ask your doctor for these tests because these tests can be, they can tell you a lot, even with not even, that’s not even that many tests, right. But it can tell you a lot with that, with just those alone. Plus, you know, doing something like a DUTCH test, plus getting your genetic test done so you understand exactly what, you know, what am I more genetically predisposed to, and how is that playing out epigenetically?

Kashif Khan

Right, right, right.

Andrea Donsky

And how can we help it if there are things that we can do, like detox genes. Which are my favorite things to talk about at The DNA Company, I love the detox gene.

Kashif Khan

What we’ve been talking about up until now has been, you know, kind of diagnosing this thing that’s not meant to be diagnosed, right. It’s a time in your life. 

Andrea Donsky

A phase.

Kashif Khan

And we’re saying that we now know that this phase, that this happens, it’s meant to happen, it’s natural. From there, we’ve understood this better, but you’ve been researching now what to do about it, which is really what everybody wants to know I know I got this problem, I can feel it, I got the hot flash. What do I do? That’s the challenge. So that’s what is sort of the impetus or the genesis for Morphus, which you just built, right? Which is your years of working with yourself, with other women, finding the best stuff, going to shows, like we talked about in Anaheim and finding the best thing and putting them together to here’s what women actually need. So talk to us about that, what did you build?

Andrea Donsky

Yeah, so, well, Morphus, the reason why we wanted to start Morphus was to have that education for everybody. So everyone, so women, if they’re starting in this phase of life, in perimenopause, or a lot of women don’t even know, like, I didn’t know perimenopause, I didn’t even know what it was or if I was in it, right. So giving them that resource. So, wearemorphous.com, our website, is really a resource, it’s kind of a starting point to get people there. And then the reason why we came up with our supplements is because I was at the point where I’m like, well, wait, and now I understand a lot more like, to your point is we all need foundation products. So we have like, so what do I mean by foundation products? Well, we all need to have digestive enzymes because we know as we get, older over the age of 35, our digestive enzymes are decreasing, Which is, a lot of women complain at this stage of like, you know, gas and bloating, and digestive issues, right. So, we need Omega-3s. 

We know Omega-3s, there’s over 8,000 different studies on Omega-3s, important for hair, skin, nails, brain health, heart health. So you look at minerals like we talked about before, right? So we’ve got these foundations that we need that many of us, one of the questions I’m often asked is, okay, what do I take? Like, you’re telling me, you’re talking about supplements, which is amazing. Where do I start? What do I take, right? So that’s when I’m always like, well, let’s get the foundation right first. And that’s why we have a line of foundation products. Then if you have specific things, like you have a sleep issue or you have, you know, you need a little bit more energy, or you find that you have your hot flashes and night sweats, what can you do? So that’s where it came to us to be like, okay, let’s help as many people as we can in specific need states, let’s call it, because the biggest ones, like we talked about, the anxiety and like all of that. 

And then also what are people really lacking? So another really big one that is a huge passion of mine is magnesium because we know 75% to 80% of us are deficient in magnesium. And these are things that are easily fixable in the sense of, of course, I’m not a doctor, I’m not diagnosing anyone. All I’m saying is we know from the research that if 75% to 80% of us are deficient in let’s say something like magnesium, then we know that something like magnesium can probably help a lot of people. And we know that stress depletes magnesium from our body. When magnesium is depleted, it creates more stress. It’s just like this vicious cycle, right? So, you know, magnesium and those minerals, all of that play an important role. So just understanding what it is that you need, what is the need state that you’re looking for? And then also understanding that we have that foundation for you, should you wanna start with those as well. So having your magnesiums, and I say magnesiums because there’s different types of magnesium. 

So if you have an issue, let’s say for sleep, you’re having trouble sleeping. Something as simple as taking magnesium glycinate or bis-glycinate can make a really big difference. That’s because the glycinate is an amino acid that helps to relax us, right. That’s attached to the magnesium. So something as simple as that can make a really big difference for a lot of people just to help them sleep better. Now, if that, and I’m also a believer in coupling, right? So like you start here and then if you wanna, if it’s not working or it’s helping a little bit, okay, what can we add from here? So my other favorite magnesium is threonate. I love magnesium threonate. Why? Because it crosses the blood brain barrier.

Kashif Khan

Yeah.

Andrea Donsky

And it helps to relax us. It helps us, it’s amazing for sleep. So now you can try threonate with glycinate and see how that works for you, right. And then if you want a little bit more, well, you can add to that, you know, try something. If, let’s say for example, that you’re finding that you’re waking up to pee a lot during the night, right. Or to go to the bathroom a lot. I don’t know if I can say pee, I guess so, but if you can urinate a lot or go to the bathroom…

Kashif Khan

Yeah, it’s another four letter word.

Andrea Donsky

Exactly. Go to the bathroom a lot during the night. Well, maybe that you need some other support, so things that are gonna help with, you know, to turn off the hormone or to basically bring down or bring up the hormone that helps to stop the peeing, right. So all of that plays a role in it. So there’s a product that we have that’s called “relaxus” that helps with that, that will help you sleep throughout the night. So, all of that plays a role. And like fiber, soluble fiber. We know that we need to have soluble fiber in our diet. So we’ve picked products that we know that are crucial for women at this stage. And we’ve done the research to make sure that it’s going to help them, and nothing’s 100%, right. I mean, obviously we do the best that we can, but from the research that we’ve done for, these are products specifically for women in perimenopause and menopause.

Kashif Khan

So what’s really cool about what you’ve done is you’ve built this foundation, like you said, here’s what everybody needs, right. Let’s get you at least to some better level. And then you have this sort of bespoke approach to, and then we can stack your personalized, as opposed to go buy your menopause supplements.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

Which I’ve seen formulations where we understand the genetics of what these ingredients do. And we’ve seen formulations on the shelf in major stores where there’s two ingredients that literally renege each other out. Like they cancel each other out. The one’s upregulating a gene, and one’s downregulating the same gene. This brings you back to where you started.

Andrea Donsky

Yep.

Kashif Khan

Because what you believe is this is good for menopause, this is good for menopause, let’s just put it all in a capsule, right. But you have to understand when you’re formulating, which you’re really good at, how does that homogeny, like when you put it all together, what does it equal, the net, right.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah, we call that the kitchen sink. And we’re not big fans of the kitchen sink at Morphus. So we really are not like, what we’ve learned is that more is not necessarily better. It’s making sure that you’re getting A, the right thing, the right ingredients, and also at the right dosage. And that’s the key. It’s not throwing everything in so that you have, so if there was research that was, and that’s the other thing we were big on, the research. So making sure that we have ingredients that have been researched for women in menopause, right. At least as much as we can because we still need a lot more research.

Kashif Khan

Is it okay for a men to take that?

Andrea Donsky

Yeah, men can take it too. So there are products, like for example, our fiber, men can take it too. Our magnesium, men can take it too. So it’s a good point. So even though our products are for women in menopause, we’re not really doing anything, like we don’t have any hormonal products, right. So we have no products that are like HRT or BHRT, because A, we’re not allowed, and B, that we just stayed away from that, we’re staying, we’re really working on those, like we said, the foundation products are helping people sleep better. But it’s more not that men can’t take it, it’s more that we’ve researched it for women at this stage. So we know that it’s okay for women at this stage to take.

Kashif Khan

So it may be more effective for women in that stage. Like you’re very specifically dealing with why she has that problem.

Andrea Donsky

Exactly.

Kashif Khan

As opposed to the men, okay, it’s maybe 80%, right.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah, and men can, I mean, men have a lot of issues with sleep too. I know a lot of men, so yeah, absolutely. But where my focus, my focus isn’t on researcher for men so much. My focus has been on researching for women.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, for sure. I mean, you’re not like modulating hormones or anything. You’re saying, here’s the 85 symptoms.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

Here’s the pain points we need to suppress while keeping you healthy. Not in a way that’s like masking it or suppressing it.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

But more like optimizing it or keeping a balance that it’s healthy, right. Is there such thing as taking too much magnesium?

Andrea Donsky

There’s such thing as taking too much anything. Like I am not a fan of taking too much, and I know sometimes the mentality is, oh, the more the better, but it’s not the case. And I’m not a fan of taking too much of anything. First of all, always read the labels on the bottles. There’s a reason why there’s dosages on the bottle, and then working with a practitioner or somebody that understands supplements, that if you need to kind of go up. So yeah, so magnesium, it depends also on the type of magnesium you’re taking.

Kashif Khan

Right.

Andrea Donsky

So if you’re taking magnesium citrate and you’re taking a lot, well, that could cause loose bowels. So, you know, and it could, other types of magnesium might do the same or might just have ill effects and have a different, you know, have an effect perhaps on your vitamin D levels. So too much of anything, I’m not a fan of. So A, listen to your body. I am a big fan of listening to your body and understanding how your body feels because we are our own best advocate and we understand our bodies best. So really paying attention to how we feel when we take certain things, but also understanding from our health, always speak to your doctor or healthcare practitioner, because if you’re on any medications, there’s interactions. 

So you always wanna make sure that you’re getting the go ahead from your doctor or healthcare provider before you’re taking any supplements. And then also just reading the label, like I just said, so making sure that you’re understanding it. And then, you know, if you wanna understand more, educate yourself from people who understand supplements, right? And you can go, and it’s not only Morphus, you can go to other companies, you know, you can read what other people say about it.

Kashif Khan

What you just said is so important because supplements, because they’re not prescriptive, they’re not medication, there’s this assumption where you don’t need specialized knowledge because you can go buy it off the shelf. So as an example, I just asked you, is there such thing as too much magnesium, you said, well, for certain things, bowel movements, right, citrate. So I remember being at a conference where there was a clinician, an MD, that was at the booth of a supplement manufacturer and we were talking about magnesium.

Andrea Donsky

Yep.

Kashif Khan

And my question is, “how much is the right amount?” I was trying to figure out dosage. He said, “well really with magnesium, “you wanna take the maximum.” So I said, “what does that mean? “What is that number,” right? He said, “well, it’s different for different people.” I said, “well, how do I know what’s the maximum for me?” He said, “you just keep taking more and more and more “until you get diarrhea.”

Andrea Donsky

Until you get loose stool, yeah.

Kashif Khan

And then you go one level back and that’s the dosage.

Andrea Donsky

Right.

Kashif Khan

So this brings us back to supplements are far more complex than people think.

Andrea Donsky

Yes!

Kashif Khan

Also if you’re dealing with proper ingredients, if you’re taking fillers and you know, garbage product that has a label on it, it’s not doing anything anyway, which is why you’re not gonna have any of the poor outcomes if you take too much. But if you’re taking good quality stuff, it’s powerful. Right, it’s powerful, and the guidance that somebody like you can provide can really truly help somebody.

Andrea Donsky

No, it’s so true. And read the bottle because they’ll have the risk information on the bottle, in many cases, depending what country you’re in as well, because certain countries will have a little bit more, but it, you know, the bottle can tell you that as well. And then, like I said, you can do the research online too. So you can actually do your own, be again, your own health advocate, go online and do the research. And in some cases, if you’re taking magnesium, you might find that it has an impact on your vitamin D, right?

Kashif Khan

Right.

Andrea Donsky

So always testing, going back. So to me, I’m always looking at a doctor or healthcare practitioner or a functional medicine doctor, whoever it is that you’re working with in terms of, you know, with your healthcare, is making sure that you’re testing on a regular basis and making sure that they understand and you understand what is going on with your body.

Kashif Khan

Yeah. That’s cool. And now with all that you’ve done, you’ve done all this research, you’ve learned all this stuff, your own journey, helping other people, you’re putting it all together and giving it back in the most amazing way, you’ve created this summit for people who are going to…

Andrea Donsky

Yes. I’m so excited.

Kashif Khan

How many doctors are involved in that?

Andrea Donsky

Okay, so, it’s called The Menopause Shift Summit, and it’s a summit, we have over 35 different health experts. Many of them are MDs, many of them are doctors. We have all different types of health experts. You are one of our guest experts, which I absolutely love. And we talked about genetics. So it’s again, another way to give back, another way to educate and another way to bring it all to one place. Because that’s the other thing we’re finding, is that there’s information, but it’s so sporadic. And it’s, you know, it’s kind of everywhere, I’m like, no, no, no, we need to do it so that it’s in one place, only about perimenopause and menopause. Again, because I’m so passionate about this topic, it’s exciting that we can bring this to everybody in one place. So yes, I am super excited, and I’ve learned so much even from the interviews that I’ve been doing.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, it’s awesome when I heard what you’re doing, ’cause it’s literally what you just said, as opposed to this, something that’s so fragmented and misunderstood. Female hormone issues in general are treated as very gray area. It’s almost, you’re supposed to have problems, it’s your hormones, right? That’s typically the answer you’re given. You’re supposed to have hot flash, that’s what menopause is.

Andrea Donsky

Right.

Kashif Khan

So what you’re doing is saying, there may be a better way, and I’m taking 35 bright minds and putting them all together in one summit. And we’re gonna talk about this and unpack the whole damn thing.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

And that’s like your curriculum, that’s your premenopause curriculum. Every woman should listen to this, those 18 year old girls that are following you that are understanding there’s something they need to know about that no one’s telling them, this is what they should listen to, to prepare.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah. Or send it to, you know, somebody that they think that can benefit from it, right. So that’s where I’m like, okay, as women, and even like in, like you’re saying, even men, we all need to come together to make a difference when it comes to women’s health, especially. And because it’s under, it needs more research. And because we’re still learning so much, especially in the menopause and perimenopause space, I find that we’re often forgotten or we don’t wanna, like, it’s not even only us, it’s like people don’t wanna talk about it. It’s not very exciting. It’s just menopause, you know? So it’s, oh, they’re over 50. It’s kind of like we’ve become irrelevant, right? So here it’s like, no, no, no, no, no, wait a second. First of all, Gen X women rock, we are like, not going into menopause lightly. I always say that, we are not going into menopause quietly. At least, I’m not. And the women that we are speaking to and making a difference. 

So making sure that we understand where we’re going, making sure that there are options available to us, whether that’s traditional medical route, whether that’s the supplement, lifestyle, nutrition route, there are options. And we are, they’re all open. And I actually am a huge fan of using them all together. If that makes sense for you, right? So to me is why not work as a team? Work with your doctor, work with your natural practitioner, work with yourself and all the research that you’re doing, and bring everything together and figure out something that works for you. 

And like you asked me earlier, there are a lot of options nowadays, so it’s not like we’re out of options and we have to do what works best for us. So you were saying before, so for some women, hormone therapy’s incredible. It is life changing for them. And for some, they can take it, or they don’t want to take it or maybe they just don’t feel good on it, right. There isn’t necessarily one thing that works for everybody. And that’s okay. That’s why we have so many different options for people. And, and by the way, all those options can be worked in conjunction as well, if it makes sense, right?

Kashif Khan

Yeah. It makes, yeah. And from what you just said, there’s one thing that stood out to me, which is this belief and you see it especially in previous generations where menopause is not a phase or transition, it’s the beginning of the end, right. Meaning that, and that’s why it isn’t sort of dealt with, because it’s like, we don’t need to deal with it, because life is over, right? I’m in menopause, I’m now retired, and that’s it, I’m done.

Andrea Donsky

I’m not fertile anymore, We don’t need you.

Kashif Khan

And the reality is women don’t live to 55 anymore. Women are doing more in this world these days than men are.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

So that belief is obsolete.

Andrea Donsky

I don’t know about more, but yeah.

Kashif Khan

Well, it depends where you look, but in our world, the functional medicine world, everywhere I go, I see brilliant women doing brilliant things.

Andrea Donsky

That’s awesome.

Kashif Khan

And you see it everywhere and it just, it’s quiet under the radar, but it’s there.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah.

Kashif Khan

So, that belief that this thing is not a blip or transition or it’s a marker for like, I’m done. And that’s literally what people believe.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah. I mean, even I was believing it. When I, like I said before, when I was turning 50, I’m like, oh, I’m old already. I started a company at 50. Like, you know, I started my third company with my partner, Randy, who I’ve been partners with for 22 years. We started our third company at 50. Like it is so, I’m looking at it now is that it is a new, it’s a new time for so many women. First of all, we’re coming into our own. And we’re also learning, you know how to say no, we’re learning how to become empowered. Many of us have, I had kids later, but for many women, their kids are leaving the home. You know, it’s just, we’re getting to know who we are. You know, as opposed to just being who we were. And I think that’s the key. And that’s what I always say to women, you know, at this stage, when you’re in perimenopause, my biggest message is, be gentle with yourself. What does that mean? Our bodies are recalibrating. So if you think of a cell phone, and your cell phone, when it’s doing an update on the software, you can’t use your phone. Or if you can use it, like you can’t, it has to do its thing in order to get the newer version. Same thing in perimenopause. And a lot of us are very hard on ourselves at this time. 

I was as well, because this is like, well, wait a minute. Who am I? Who’s taking over my body? I’m so like, and we’ll be really our biggest critics. So like, why am I, where’s my memory? Why do I have no motivation? Why can’t I focus and concentrate? Which I always say, when I was in perimenopause, I went from a type A, to a type F minus, you know? And that’s like my biggest joke because I’m like, wait a minute, I couldn’t get outta bed. I couldn’t focus. I couldn’t– I mean, I was a workaholic for so many years. I didn’t even wanna work, Kash. Like honestly, I was like, I can’t do this. For many years in perimenopause. Once I got into menopause, it changed again. Like I’m still not who I was prior to perimenopause, and I’m happy about it, actually. Now I have this new version of who I am in menopause and it’s awesome, you know? So it has this negative connotation. It has like this, oh, you know, you’re old. Heck no, man, we are just starting. Like we are just, yeah, we’re just starting.

Kashif Khan

And it’s awesome what you’re doing with the summit, I think is really gonna help doing all this great work. And now you’re gonna make this, the whole thing we just talked about where women need to learn and engage and you’re making this summit, and I heard it’s free for everybody.

Andrea Donsky

Yeah. So it’s a free summit. You can register if you go to, wearemorphus.com, M-O-R-P-H-U-S.com. If you follow beyond TikTok, there’s a link in my Linktree as well that you can register, social media @andreadonsky or @wearemorphus. You can find it there. And I know that you’re gonna put a link below, right.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, we’ll add the links to your social and to the summit itself.

Andrea Donsky

Nice.

Kashif Khan

So, but I mean, what more could you ask where you’re getting an entire menopause curriculum and it’s free. You’re giving this back to the world in terms of the research you’ve done, and so now to find out more about your brand and the work you’re doing, it’s wearemorphus?

Andrea Donsky

Yep. So, we are M-O-R-P-H-U-S.com. So you can visit our website, and then follow us on TikTok. You know, we always laugh. We are like, the Gen X women on TikTok, it is like becoming huge. So @andreadonsky on TikTok, which is really where I spend a lot of my time.

Kashif Khan

Awesome. Well, thank you for being here. This was truly mind opening and like, I learned, I feel like maybe I have menopause, I don’t know. I gotta go work on it. I’ll get diagnosed, I might have on some of the symptoms, but thank you again for coming, this was awesome.

Andrea Donsky

And there is a male menopause, by the way, I did an interview with Bryce Wylde about andropause, which is male menopause. And that will be an interview in the summit as well.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, oh, cool. Awesome, thank you for coming.

Andrea Donsky

Thank you for having me.

Kashif Khan

All right.