The Factors Shaping Your Baby’s Gut Microbiome

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

Sinclair. Thank you. I am just thrilled to be here with you. Thank you.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Wonderful. Whew! It is going to be hard to discipline ourselves today, but let us start with the baby microbiome and let us start from the beginning—the role of the parents in the stewardship and inheritance of the microbiome itself for the child at the beginning.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

Yes, absolutely. This is the major role of the mom, and mom is the steward of the baby’s microbiome, and that microbiome of mom, through the passage of the baby to the vaginal canal, is how the baby inherits the microbiome. It is both through her anal flora; do not be grossed out, folks. The vaginal flora and the acquisition of the baby are what set up the baby’s thymus, the baby’s immune system. The baby is not sterile in utero. The placenta is not sterile, and the fetus, prior to becoming a baby, is not sterile. That baby actually has an immune system in utero too; people may not know that, and the placenta has a microbiome. Anyway, it talks to the innate immune system through the thymus, which sets up that key part of the baby’s immune system called innate immunity, and then there is adaptive immunity. That is the beginning. Now, understand that dad plays a role through contact; you’ve got the parents. Siblings and the family dog, licking the baby’s face. It all plays a role in establishing a robust microbiome.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Now, why is that so important to set up from the beginning like this? What downstream effects could we see from a healthy, robust microbiome for the infant?

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

Yes. That microbiome is responsible for setting up the future of the baby’s immune system and how that immune system will look. While it is protecting that infant, whose immune system is not robust until about six weeks after birth, from invaders, because, in the whole world, there are microbes everywhere—on your desk, on your keyboard, and on your hands—we do not have to over-sanitize people. Hold on. No hand sanitizer. This is important for establishing future immunity as well as detoxification. You need certain microbes in that milieu that alter, for example, the pH of the poop and the change in the pH of the poop. That simple thing can keep pathogens out. That is why babies need a lot of a certain type of microbe called bifidobacteria. There is a name, and people are familiar with it. It is in yogurt, but it is also the main organism in babies. Babies and adults do not look alike in terms of the microbiome; well, they should have.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

When we think about you, I mean, you mentioned it right away. Of course, my brain goes right to what about mom’s microbiome and her terrain as she is growing a baby in utero. What are the factors impacting infant microbiome health today? I am thinking about those herbicides and pesticides to which you have devoted so much care, research, and understanding.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

We want to do a pre-pregnancy clean-up for mom and dad whenever possible. If that is not possible, we do not detoxify during pregnancy, but you can certainly fortify the microbiome, and you can do that through oral probiotics and vaginal probiotics, and the biggest one, of course, is dietary. You must eat organic, regenerative foods because the number one pesticide being sprayed in herbicides, glyphosate-based herbicides like Roundup, is an antibiotic. It tremendously affects the microbiome, kills off the beneficial bacteria Lactobacilli and Bifida, and promotes pathologics; like Salmonella and Clostridia. What people may not know is that in the autism pandemic that we are seeing globally, children on the spectrum, for example—throw a little pediatrics in here for you—have a predominance of the Clostridial species, and no doubt, that is part of and due in relationship to the glyphosate poisoning; chronic daily poisoning of parents, children, and the dogs. It is in their food, too.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Yes, that is a great point. You just said a couple of really important things here. I want to unpack further. You mentioned organic, regenerative food. What do you mean by regenerative?

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

In the past, when I was first going on this journey, it was not until the early 2000s that I got a hammer on the head and woke up to this whole thing, throwing a bunch of moms in my community stomping a spray here in my county. That is how I stepped in. I was not born with this knowledge. It was a serendipitous tap on the shoulder. Thank you very much. That is how I entered into it. What was the question again, Sinclair? What am I focusing on?

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Regenerative food. What does that mean to you when you say organic and regenerative? Is it two separate things? What do moms and dads need to know?

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

When we first started eating organic food, that simply meant that they were not using chemical inputs—no herbicides, fungicides, or insecticides. Those three things are known as pesticides. But we now know that you can grow organic food without chemical inputs, and the soil is nutritionally bereft of any nutrition. There are brands where there is no nutrition or nutritive value in the plant because the soil has been decimated. What we want to focus on now is that we have taken it up a notch. Region Organic 2023 believes that the soil has to be regenerated with a healthy soil microbiome, and the soil microbiome and our gut microbiome are synonymous. You need certain beneficial microbes in the soil to produce robust plants. There is a microbiome in the rhizomes that are in the soil. I am not a plant biologist, Sinclair. I grew up in Manhattan. Okay, let me be clear. There was a lot of learning that had to be done to get here. But now I am telling parents, Get to know your farmer’s markets. Really become a citizen scientist of what you are feeding your family. We spend so much time in the kitchen cooking and preparing. Let us not lose the food quality and, of course, growing your own. Everybody can grow. The smallest apartment in Boston You can have herbs growing outside your kitchen window, even in the winter. This is what I am saying: We have to get back to the land, not this monoculture farming. It behooves us to teach every student how to grow food. It should be in the school curriculum. This is what I mean by that.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

That is really helpful. Thanks for unpacking that. We often referred to it as soil poverty in passing. Could you walk us through the steps if food is commercially grown in these mono-crops with these heavy pesticides and herbicides? What happens from there to the soil, to the nutrition content of the food, to the mom’s microbiome, and then to the baby’s microbiome?

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

Yes. Before GMOs were introduced in the nineties, genetically modified organisms, and the only reason why they were introduced was so you could spray these genetically modified crops and they would not die. Prior to the introduction of GMO crops; which are corn, soy, and canola. There are now zucchini, arctic apples, potatoes, papaya, alfalfa, and cotton. The list is long of genetically modified foods, and now they are sprayed with Apeel. We can talk about that, too. The list is long. 

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

What is Apeel? 

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

We’ll talk about Apeel. It is my latest craze. Now that we have introduced GMOs, farmers can spray not just prior to planting to get rid of the weeds, but they can spray all during prior, during, and post-crop production. The levels of pesticides are so much higher, and what they also do is spray these crops and use the pesticides as crop desiccants, drying out the crop so it can come to harvest quicker. Foods, particularly those that vegetarians eat like oats, wheat, weeds, and legumes, are super high in glyphosate-based herbicides like Roundup. There are over 800 glyphosate-based herbicides, but many people know the name Roundup from Monsanto, now Bayer, that is what is sprayed. But glyphosate, as I mentioned prior as an antibiotic, is also a metal chelator; it was a pipe cleaner. It cleans the pipes. That was how they discovered it was an herbicide because it was cleaning pipes, and they saw all the herbs around it die. It binds the metals that you need to run your body. There are organic metals that we need to run brain function; for example, magnesium, zinc, copper, cobalt, manganese, and glyphosate love manganese. You need manganese for nervous system function and a whole bunch of other things. Lactobacilli and your gut also need manganese. It affects us; it affects our microbiome. 

These metals are chelated, they are bound, and they are not available to run our biology or our physiology. Our children and ourselves do not have enough nutrition because it’s been taken out by these chemical inputs. We cannot run our own physiology, particularly with metals. In addition, Dr. Séralini from France, I believe it was in 2015 or 2016, showed in a study that those pesticides were also contaminated with heavy metals like arsenic, lead, cadmium, and mercury in the pesticides. We are getting an extra dose of heavy metals, and the beneficial ones are being bound up. Now we are eating these plants, which are nutritionally bereft and have a form of plant AIDS. Their immune systems are taken out, and they are nutrient-poor, and that is what we are eating. There are still some standing, but barely. We are eating those, and we are still hungry because our body is saying, Hey, we did not get enough nutrition. We are overfed; we keep eating but are undernourished because we are nutritionally poor. Did I answer your question?

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Yes. This is, I think, the perfect way to describe and briefly encapsulate the process here. Let us take that further down the road. What does that do to mom and baby in utero, and how does that set up the baby in infancy?

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

Yes. Whatever mom is eating is what the baby is eating in utero. Mommy’s babies eat, and a lot of women think, Oh, I am pregnant; I could eat whatever I want and gain what I want.  They come off their diets. I have seen this. I have been taking care of moms and babies for 40 years. I have seen it: eating food that is less than ideal—sodas, chips. Oh, my God. Oh, I can eat whatever I want. Oh, no, stop. Now is the time when you have to be extra careful about what you are eating because what you are eating gets right through the placenta. The placenta is not a barrier. Everything moms are exposed to, babies are exposed to in utero. Additionally, moms who have heavy metals such as mercury, lead, cadmium, etc. offload, particularly in the firstborn, their own heavy metals. Those babies get an extra heavy dose. Especially if moms did not do anything for detoxification, they may not have heard this. No shame, no blame game. We talked about that, Sinclair. We do not blame or shame people. We did it. No, now we know. Now we can try to fix it. All those nutrients affect babies. For example, if the mom is nutritionally deficient in the vitamins that help methylate, for example, folate and methyl folate, the baby will not get enough. It is a water-soluble vitamin. That baby could be born with some neurologic defects, such as spinal bifida. They add folic acid to the prenatal vitamins in the wrong form.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Right.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

It is not even the right form. Like the idea, wrong formulation, folks get it right. This is not rocket science. It has to be in a certain format. It is called methyl folate, or methyl B-12. That is why I do recommend prenatal vitamins. 40 years ago, I said, Really, if mom eats well, why does she need prenatals? Now? Different. Mom needs lots of antioxidants to help her from all the environmental toxicants she is exposed to. A diet, food first, rich in antioxidants, polyphenols, lots of colors, eating the rainbow, lots of vegetables, healthy protein from grass-fed grass, and finished meats if you eat meat also, all but, you will also need some extraneous supplements. That is what I recommend now. Yes.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Have you listed every supplement you would recommend for moms while the babies are in utero, or do you want to cover any other bases there other than this herbicide pesticide situation?

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

Yes. What I try to do is because, then, you would need a Ph.D. in nutritional science for a mom, and there is so much going on. Mom has two other kids.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Yes. It feels like that to moms, right now. 

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

Oh my God. If they take an organic prenatal vitamin or a clean prenatal vitamin, many are based on base from foods, megafoods, or innate responses. I have no stock in any of these supplements, by the way. If you take food-based supplements and take their prenatal, make sure it is clean—I should say non-GMO, organic when possible. Mom prenatal. You will see in the really good ones that they won’t have folic acid; I will say folate in the form of methyl folate. a good multivitamin with minerals for mom and a really super healthy diet. It is time to really clean up the diet and stress organic, farm-to-table, farm-fresh food. Make food and cooking a priority. Whole Foods, eating out, dropdown Do not do the drive-through. Do not take out burritos. Sorry, folks, I eating out too, but I rarely do it these days because the food quality, even if it tastes good, is not organic unless the restaurant or takeout says it is. Even though I live in a crunchy part of the country, there are very few organic restaurants. Very few. It is shocking.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Yes, it is. That is really true. Worse, we are still trying to recapture our market demand and our awareness of this and support farmers in getting out of their trap with the conventional foods huh? 

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

Yes.. Let us be honest 

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Do it, guys. We are on the way. We really are, and this is so much better understood now. That is why we get to dive into the specifics together. I am thinking about my journey as a chronic illness patient. I started out in mental health. You probably do not know my story, but I got too sick to continue my practice and shut it down. We went on a journey after I ended up in the hospital and became Mystery Patient X, and I was so sick that I wrote goodbye letters many times.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

Wow!

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Defied diagnosis. But really, when you look at it, nothing that happened to me was all that unusual for the American public today. It started with me being the oldest child. Mom played with Mercury as a kid. They would break thermometers and play with them in the street. Yes, I mean, it was the fifties, man. She had a lot of environmental toxin exposure growing up in L.A. smog back then, flipping houses in the seventies as a go-getter, and stripping lead paint herself. Give her so much credit for that and then trying to feed me; she could not breastfeed. I went on formula super early, just a couple of weeks in. Then I grew up on Costco food, candy, and snacks. I mean, that is great.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

No, you have, unfortunately. Your story is the story. It is the American story of not being breastfed. The C-section baby we can talk about why that is a problem. We can talk about not being breastfed and why that is a problem. Then the heavy metal exposures, indeed, are a problem. All this causes gut issues, which then cause subsequent brain issues because there is a gut-brain axis, and those microbes in your gut make chemicals in addition to neurotransmitters, the chemicals that run your brain, serotonin. That is the calming neurotransmitter, GABA. Calming transmitters are made in the gut. It goes up the enteric nervous system through the vagus nerve and affects brain function. many people with mental illnesses, such as anxiety, depression, ADHD, and neuro psych issues. Others have gut issues. Children on the spectrum: 90% of them have gut issues. I think it is even 100% for myself in my own practice. This is how we have set up our current children. When I first wrote the book, What’s Making Our Kids Sick? 54% of American children have a chronic disease. I think I saw that the last stat was 63%. I think it is more than 75%. Because sickness is the new normal. Children have allergies, asthma, obesity—you name it—and anxiety and mental health are not cut off here at the neck. Mental health and physical health are related people. Depression; these are all the common eating disorders; gender dysphoria; you name it. A lot of it is related to this gut-brain microbiome axis. You tell me where you want to dig in. Sinclair, it is all important, and I am sorry for your journey, but your journey allows you to be here to educate other people’s journeys. Thank you for what you are doing.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Oh, I appreciate you saying that. I am really at peace with it now. It certainly was an absolute living hell at the time for many years. But it deepens your character. I learned the hard way that no white coat is coming to save me, and I am going to have to take it and learn this myself, just like everybody else listening to the summit. I really view every one of these interviews as a love letter to people who are in the position that I was in. This is absolutely how we heal. We pick up these gems from trusted experts like yourself, put the pieces together, and put one foot in front of the other.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

That is right. Now we have our own white horse.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Yes. Exactly. I would love for you to speak to vaginal birth versus cesarean, and then absolutely. Let us dove into breastfeeding versus formula issues.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

Births go awry. Again, the no-shame thing and about 32% of American births involve a C-section. We are not the highest in the world; by the way, Australia is. I thought we were, by far, but we are not. But we are close. When the baby’s born via caesarean, they do not acquire that vaginal flora from mom unless some smart ob-gyn or midwife seeds from the mom’s vaginal flora, the baby’s nose, and mouth. That is seeding, as we call it, is not often done. People call it gross. I am gross; the baby was born under the vagina. What are you talking about? Please take a cloth and seed the baby’s mouth and nose. We could circumvent so many problems. Anyway, the baby looks into the surgical suite, or the obstetrician or the midwife who has ever been there in the suite with them comes out. But if mom nurses, this is why breastfeeding is so important for so many reasons. It is so important for the baby’s microbiome. Within about three months, it will revert to a breastfed baby’s vaginal-birth-looking microbiome. Within the first three years of life, children’s microbiomes can flex, meaning they can be altered. They can acquire new bugs. After three years, the microbiome gets pretty set. We might have a fudge factor of about 20%, but for some of us, we cannot ever change that microbiome. If you take probiotics or eat fermented foods, they often die off after a couple of weeks. That is why we need to constantly ingest probiotics as adults in the form of either a supplement or fermented foods. I am a big fan if you can tolerate fermented foods. The baby’s microbiome and the breast milk changes. In this breast milk, there is a conversation between the baby and the mother. There is a retrograde flow from the baby’s mouth, and the baby tells mom through microbes what they need. Mom, this is so smart; it tracks it up and sends it back, what a baby needs in breastmilk. 

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Magical.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

Now it is magic. Now there’s something in breast milk called human milk oligosaccharides. There are these substances in breast milk that are meant not for the baby but for the baby’s microbiome. The bifido eats those human milk oligosaccharides. Some women have 200. God bless them. Some average 50, but in formula, you can now buy stuff to add one of the human milk oligosaccharides. They are starting to put some galactose oligosaccharides and fructose oligosaccharides in a formula, but it is still not breast milk. Now, listen, there is no ideal world, Sinclair. Occasionally, we cannot nurse; we adopt. There are issues. I get it. But the best you can do for a baby is use organic formula or make your own nourishing traditions. Weston Price: You can make your own. I could not; I worked too hard. When my son stopped nursing at five months, he went on protest. It is a long story. He decided he would not nurse anymore. It happens to me too, as a pediatrician. This was 30 years ago, and I got organic formula. I did not know about adding probiotics back then, and DHA; helping baby fat for the baby’s brain, I did not know that. But now I tell parents to add in the DHA and, when adding probiotics, add in vitamin D and vitamin D3K for their babies. We also sometimes need to supplement breast milk. I mean, a formula that is organic. For breastfed babies that need to be supplemented, it just depends on the mom’s health and the baby’s health. Case by case, there is no one formula. 

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Yes. I really appreciate you saying that. I hope that we can continue to spread the word about the value of breastfeeding wherever possible. If you are having difficulties with that, speak with a lactation consultant, because that might be the latch. There is so much more that you can do today than we knew even ten years ago.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

Absolutely. There is no shame in needing some help. Even gorillas need videos to learn how to nurse their babies when they are in captivity. They were taught how to nurse babies. It is not intuitive. How do you just stick the baby on there and let them go to town? There are all sorts of things that you could just get some assistance with, especially if you are a new mom. Ask a mom who has had more than one kid. They have one here and one here. You learn that there is a process. All this stuff here is what we are learning. It is not intuitive intelligence. We need to learn how to do these things from each other.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

That is a really lovely way to enlighten this topic because they know it is so hard for parents. If you are listening, it is because you care. Of course, you want to see your child do well. Of course, you want to know that you did everything you could. You do not want your kid to end up like me. I was on a lot of antibiotics between two and four for ear infections, which decimated my gut microbiome. I was basically feeling unwell.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

A lot of that, as soon as you hear that, is chronic ear infections. I know this is a sidebar, and I do not want to go into specifics, but chronic ear infections cause dairy sensitivities. Absolutely.  You can test for it or just pull them off dairy and see what happens. But so many parents are resistant. No, I’ve got milk. The milk industry created the idea that you must have milk. Babies after a certain point do not need milk. They need calcium. But if they are eating, they can get calcium from other foods. Almonds have a ton of calcium, and so does salmon. There are lots of foods with calcium, so they do not need to drink cow’s milk. Cow’s milk is for baby cows, so you do not have to drink cow’s milk. If a child has a lot of infections, pull off dairy and see how it goes, and give them a little bit of almond butter. They have lots of calcium in them.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

If somebody has had a less than ideal experience, maybe a non-vaginal birth, and did not know to take those steps, to do the swabbing, or if we went onto formula too early and it was not organic, not ideal, or not probiotics, what might happen? What issues might show up in early life, and what can we do about them?

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

Good question, Sinclair; we’ve got to work together as a team here. This is good. What often shows up is eczema. Eczema is an inflammatory skin inflammation in kids. It tends to affect their elbows and cheeks. You will see behind their legs and on their chins. It is super itchy. The skin gets scaly. The babies cannot sleep at night because of the itch factor. It gets inflamed. It can get infected. 60% of infants may now have eczema. Eczema is an expression of a gut issue manifesting in the skin, so slathering it with steroid cream will make it feel better. But drives the problem deeper. You are just suppressing the issue. You are not getting to the root cause. The root cause of medicine and holistic health is a gut issue. You have to take them off dairy and sometimes gluten, too, to resolve the eczema. 

You can do food testing. There are different labs, so we can do food testing. I like U.S. biotech: No, there is no stock in the company because we do a fingerstick from the baby on a little card, and it is not wicked expensive. Insurance does not cover any of these tests, by the way. You can see if there are intolerances to foods; if there are food allergies, they are food intolerances. But that is another conversation. Eczema, constipation—one-third of American children have constipation. The baby is now pooping or making big, hard pellets. Formula-fed babies are often constipated, and that tells me the gut is not working right. I am Doctor Poopy Diaper. I love all poop. I want to see the poop. Babies have a very specific poop. It should be yellowish, seedy, soft, and not foul-smelling. That is breastfed poop. When you switch to formula, they become harder, darker in color, and more adult-like; there is no more baby poo, and they can smell not so good. Often, they will be pellets, and those are babies who are struggling. 

We have to get on those babies ready to see what triggers the constipation. If babies cannot poop, they can detox, but they will be uncomfortable and not sleep well. Babies are not sleeping well, and parents are not sleeping well. The whole family goes to pot. Eczema, constipation, and you will see reflux in babies where food comes up. We will see what else those are. The most common ones are gut-related. You might start to see ear infections starting as young as four months. You will start to see chronic fluid in the ears and lots of nasal congestion. Those are all the early signs of cradle cap—that white coating on the scalp that looks like babies have that little bathing cap on. No way, no. That is no good. Get rid of that. The way we get rid of it is to take the scales off. We correct the diet. Much of what we are doing is dietary correction. We should not have all these gluten and dairy sensitivities. We have chronically poisoned our children in the food supply. The parents, unknowingly, if you are eating out, if you are not eating organic, you are eating GMOs and pesticides. GMOs are not healthy either. I talk about pesticides, but GMOs are not good either. Neither one.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Can you explain that a little bit further? We talked briefly earlier on what GMOs are, and now there are more and more GMO crops. But why are they not good?

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

Yes.  When they do this genetic engineering, when they engineer the gene to produce a certain trait, they say it is an exact science, but it is not exact, actually. This newly formed product may cause genetic disturbances or untoward side effects down the line. We know there are only about three human studies on GMOs. There are not a lot, which is shocking because we have been eating them for 25 years. All of us are eating them because, even if you are fully organic, which I do not know anyone who is, they can cross-contaminate organic fields. An organic crop next to a non-organic crop causes cross-contamination; the USDA says 5 to 9%. We are all getting some. These GMOs have been shown to cause oxidative stress, which is why you need antioxidants in your diet or supplement, which are cancerous precursors. They also reduce glutathione. Glutathione is the master antioxidant in your body. You need glutathione. But if you cannot take glutathione, I recommend taking NAC. It has been a savior for so many people during COVID, NAC, N-acetyl cysteine. Cysteine is one of the three amino acids that make up glutathione, the master antioxidant. As we age, our glutathione levels go down. Babies have a lot of glutathione, as do children. That is another reason why they may have done so well during COVID. Let us go to glutathione. It also increases the production of certain amines called polyamines, which we have in our bodies. Some are important. If it gets too many, it could be cancerous, like cadaverine and putrescine. They have these weird names: cadaverine and putrescine. Those are probably all GMOs.

Last but not least, there is a genetically modified insecticide called BT, as in Bt-Corn, so that when insects eat this BT, their stomachs explode. It said it would not happen to us because our stomach acid would break down the Bt-corn. Well, I cannot even tell you how many people are on antacids or Prilosec, and their pHs are super high in their stomachs, so they do not break it down. In one study out of Montreal, they found BT circulating in moms and fetuses, not broken down. Human effects? Now look at that. What we do now comes from the work of microbiologist Kiran Krishnan, who owns Microbiome Labs, whom I adore and for whom I do write, by the way. I write articles for Microbiome Labs because I love them. He did a study looking at Roundup, and Roundup was way more toxic than glyphosate alone because these herbicides do not just have glyphosate, which is toxic, but also inert proprietary secrets. The main one in Roundup, for example, is a surfactant called Poea. Those surfactants are detergents. Detergents break down fats like, cell membranes, that is where fat lives, and your nervous system, that is where fat lives. Your brain is highly fatty. They can break that down. Glyphosate enters the cells and does more damage. That is what Kiran Krishnan found in a Shine Model study that he published about a year ago with the Head of Genetics in the U.K. named Dr. Michael Antoniou and Dr. Robin Mesnage. People should know, if they want to look at this stuff, that I am not just talking about poo-poo here and that we have really good science to back up what we are saying. Poo-poo is a pediatric word.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Of course.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

Everybody knows poo poo. These are some of the problems with how we have poisoned our food supply. I would be remiss, Sinclair; I have to get on this. I have to talk about it all the time. A paper came out in 2020 that showed how glyphosate causes autism—not correlated; caused. I thought when that paper came out, it showed the mechanism of how it happened. I said, “Oh my God, you see, here it is. We will stop using glyphosate.” No, it amped up. Now, either because of herbicide resistance or because we are using more toxic formulations, like Dicamba 24-D, what I say is that America does not love her children. We have not pulled the poisons out of our food. They are eating it everywhere in school lunches. Look at moms across America in the school lunch study. This is my cry. We can talk about the Bill of Rights.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Yes, let us do that. Let us do that right now. What is the Bill of Rights that you referring to?

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

My own passion for the care of our children got me; I would say some are crazed. During COVID, I was a little crazed, and what I was crazy about was the narrative being pushed on our kids. We were not talking about nutrition. We were not talking about vitamin C; we were not talking about sunlight. We did not talk about vitamin D; we did not talk about supplements in the microbiome. None of these things were talked about as improving our children’s health. What we talked about was a narrative based on a vaccine, and that was it. I found that to say faulty would be a less powerful word than what I might use in private, Sinclair. But I digress. From my work with children, I wrote, it is global, but it is basically an environmental children’s Bill of Rights. I wrote six principles at the time. I added one since I have lectured on it and written about it. It is on GMOscience.org. I wrote about this because our kids are not being protected now by regulatory agencies, not by the government, not by schools, not by the CDC, not by anyone. I wrote this Bill of Rights, and I mean, they are simple and straightforward. I can tell if you would like me to go into it or not. But I think our children globally, regardless of color or income, are not being protected and are under assault. I think it behooves everybody who is watching your program everywhere to step up on behalf of our kids. That is my call to action today.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

I completely agree with you. We have a choice right now, and we have way more control than we think we do. It may not be our fault that we got here, but it is our responsibility to fix it. That is a yes.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

I give you an example because people may say, Oh, impossible; what can I do? I cannot do anything right. Oh, Costco, one of the biggest buyers of organics in the US, was using Apeel, that protective toxic coating that they spray on fruits and veggies, which you cannot eat. If you see the Apeel label, run. Do not eat it. We could talk about it if you want. We sent an email yesterday about the new MDs to moms, doctors, and scientists, and Costco stopped using it because of consumer pressure. We got an email back. We sent it yesterday and got it back last night.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Oh, my God.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

One email. They said we did stop using it because of consumer pressure. When you go to Costco, which is a way for families to buy affordable organics, you should not see that A P E E L Bill Gates-funded program on your avocado, apple, or whatever you are buying. The nutrition of the fruit in the vegetable is often in the peel. You do not want to peel it off. You want to eat the potato peel, apple peel, and orange peel, which are super nutritious.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Well, I am asking you to unpack this a little bit for people because some people may not have heard about Apeel. I got our team to put together some research on this and share it on Instagram. We got attacked for doing it, and it was very interesting to watch. Could you please, from a scientific perspective, share your concern about Apeel and why we would want parents to avoid it?

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

They want to keep fruits and veggies from spoiling on the shelf for longer. They said, Hey, we’ll put this protective monoglycerides and diglycerides, which are fats, coating on it; what could go wrong? Well, it sounds great. You put this nice coating on it. The nutrition, apparently, according to Apeel, does not go down the nutritive value of the apple or the avocado; whatever they are spraying with this protective coat survives transport longer, so you can get some apples from Chile or whatever, 8000 miles away from wherever you are living. Do not do it. What? Oh, wait a minute. In order to create these fats when they are processed in your body, they go from mono, to di, to triglycerides. They make triglycerides, which are not so healthy fats, number one. Number two, they make a substance called diacylglycerol or diglyceride. I think that is the name of it. This di also contains glycerol, which can increase insulin levels and, by the way, may be a carcinogen. But they did not tell you that. They have to use an extraction process using solvents and heavy metals to create this coating.

Whenever you see hexane being used—that was used in baby formula—that is a solvent. They found heavy metals such as cadmium, arsenic, lead, and mercury in this process in the Apeel. There are heavy metals in this protective coating. What are we doing? Yes, it does mean you have to shop more frequently for your fruits and vegetables. In other countries, they go every day to buy fresh fruit and vegetables. Maybe we do not have time to go every day. But every three days after a plant is harvested, the nutrition and nutritional content go down by 30%. You want to eat your fruits and veggies as fresh as you pick them, from your garden, your window box, or wherever you grow them. You try to do that and not transport 8,000 miles with a toxic coating on it. That is what Apeel says. I have sources for this information, and I have about six different references on the toxicity of Apeel. I say, Do not eat it.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

It is great. I would love to know where people can find that information from you so they can share it with their schools.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

What are we going to do today? We are doing a podcast, The New MDs, episode ten. We are talking about the fake food frenzy, and on our YouTube and Facebook channels, we are going to put the resources for all this information. I am actually writing an article, literally, as we speak about fake food. “Fake Food Frenzies,” it is called. The phony chicken, phony burgers, and Apeel coatings it is all going to be in there, and my favorite is “That Impossible Burger.” Oh, I ripped on that one. 

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

I know. That is really bad.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

It is a bad one. Do not eat it. I do not care if Michelin-starred restaurants are serving it; that is great for them. Do not spend $30 for that. GMO-soy burgers with glyphosate, do not do it.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Thank you so much for mentioning that. I really want to ask you to impact that, but go watch Dr. Michelle’s podcast on this so that you can learn the details. I know we have to wrap, and I just find it so hard because you are such a resource and an advocate for parents and kids. I am thinking about the children that have come through our practice and how much higher they are, and about glyphosate and oversized pesticides and their parents. I think their labs are shocking, especially if the family is plant-based or if they are eating only vegetarian or vegan, and it’s those grains and legumes that are heavily sprayed, and parents realize how quickly it adds up. Let us recap a couple of positive action steps for parents: maybe preconception in utero, and then one positive step.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

Whenever you can switch your diet and whatever you can do, it is progress, not perfection. Start making changes if you do not have the finances to dump your pantry. Steps. The most important things are your meat, fruits, and veggies, and your eggs. That is a real fat in your diet—not seed oils, but real fats, whether it is coconut oil or olive oil butter. Number one. Number two: If you are suffering or if your child is suffering from any gut or brain disturbances, you have to remove gluten and dairy. Take it out. There are so many great substitutes. Now take it out for a while and see how they do. I do not like to give kids digestive enzymes to help them break it down because that is where there is a problem. Let us give a green solution. I do not like it. You’ve got to shift the diet and get them on a lower, anti-inflammatory diet, even if it is just temporary. Include fermented foods in your child’s diet and in yourself. Drink some apple cider vinegar. You can put two tablespoons in a glass of water every day, and you can put it on your child’s salad and salad dressing. 

Apple cider vinegar with the mother. Mrs. Bragg’s. Costco has an organic brand, but it is not as good as Mrs. Bragg’s, in my opinion. But it has a cedar factor in it, and it is one of the microbes that will break down glyphosate. I make sure that I try to drink a little bit of that every day. Apple cider vinegar is super healthy. You can put it on your skin. It is antifungal and antibacterial. You can wash your veggies in it with a little bit of water. You can do a veggie wash because there are the clean 15 dirty dozen by the Environmental Working Group. I say buy all organic, but if you cannot, you can go to EWG and look at their list, put it in your phone, take a snapshot, and so I say that. I say do not drink tap water, but do not buy the plastic PBA, PBB, or PVC water. Get a basic carbon filter. You do not need to get a whole reverse osmosis system in your house, but you do need filtered water. But you want to make sure you are drinking and eating a mineral-dense diet. You want to eat a lot of foods that are high in minerals, and often nuts and seeds are high in minerals. Assuming your kid does not have a nut allergy, hopefully not. But I know. I recommend that. If you are thinking about conceiving, right on, beautiful. If you can prep at least six months before, clean up. Mom and Dad Made Safe, my friend Amy Shah. She has a great pre-pregnancy clean-out booklet; there are 80 pages in there. I love that group. I have advice for those guys. I think they are spot on as another resource where parents can find non-toxic products, so Clean Up their water, clean up the internal milieu, and clean up the external milieu. It is a journey because many of us, including me, were not taught this. Now, we are teaching parents to teach it to their children. If you already have kids who are three, eight, or 12 years old, bring them on the journey with you. It is a family adventure. Get those kids eating meals together. One of the most important things you did as a family was get the kids in the kitchen cooking with you. Kids should know how to cook, grow food, and clean up. Kids need to go run and do their homework. They need to do chores. Get them to clean up their own mess. It does not have to be perfect. I was one of those moms who did not want to mess in her kitchen. Oh, I will let that go now. I would do it a little bit differently. I do not know what I was thinking. Yes, there could be a mess in the kitchen, but I am saying this is how we start the journey of changing our lives. It’s possible at any step or wherever you are. Light green, medium green, dark green—whatever you are in the ecosphere, you can begin.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

It is so beautiful. Thank you for spreading your message of hope and for looking out for our little ones and for being so loving to the parents. Just trying to navigate along the way.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

It is hard. Did we say that it was hard?

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

We did. Just a couple minutes ago.

Michelle Perro, MD, DHom

You do not need a Ph.D. to read a food label by the way, on those codes. Number nine is organic. If you see the number nine on those food codes, nine, organic.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Good one. That is a great last step. Thank you so much for your time. Absolutely.