The Survival Trap: How Our Body’s Defense System Can Fuel Heart Disease

Podcast Introduction and Guest Welcome 0:00

Welcome to Doctor Talks, the podcast where every episode leads to a healthier you. Join us as we navigate the world of optimal health, uncovering groundbreaking strategies to conquer chronic disease. In each episode, we'll bring you the latest insights from leading health experts, medical innovators, and wellness warriors. If you're seeking to transform your health journey, or if you're looking for answers to burning questions, you've come to the right place. Get ready to unlock the secrets of lifelong health and vitality.

This is Doctor Talks, real talk from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most. Hello, everybody. Welcome back. Sit down. Get out a pad of paper. Write down some notes. You're going to learn a lot of really important hard facts and things. I guarantee you you don't know because we brought a world expert. That's what this summit reverse heart disease actually is doing. And here's another big shot that Doctor Isaac Lee has. He has a medical degree and many other degrees. I'm so impressed to have him as part of our faculty, a leader in the field of integrative medicine, specializing in cancer and detoxification, immunity and complex conditions including heart disease.

Respected physician, researcher, author, educator. He has partnered up with many prominent groups at Harvard, National Institutes of Health, and he has a clinic in Santa Rosa. Not just any clinic. Go check out the website. You'll see the most gorgeous clinic called Amitabha medical clinic. Some of the most interesting treatments, and we're going to talk about a range of topics, but we're going to end up with something called a for reasons that I've had experience with in the cardiology world, but we haven't talked about it at all.

So this is all hot new information. Thank you, Doctor Isaac Fellows, for taking time with me. Thank you. Thank you for having me participate in this important topic.

The Survival Paradox and Galectin-3 2:06

All right. Well, you want to, focus on. I mean, it's such a buzz. The survival paradox and heart health breakthrough research for halting and reversing cardiovascular disease. And we have talked a lot about halting and reversing. But your angle is very scientific and very different so far from everybody else. And I think it's just going to be great. So you have a book. I have the book. The Survival Paradox covers a lot about heart health and disease. Tell everybody now there's so interested what is this survival paradox.

So the survival paradox is it sounds it is actually a paradox because we are wired to survive. You know, we are built to survive. Every cell in our body is built to survive. And because it's built within us, we do it in an automated way immediately. And by the same drive the drivers to survive is the same drives. It causes inflammation, it causes fibrosis, it causes acute and chronic diseases to go astray like sepsis. I do a lot of research on and it drives chronic diseases, shortens our life and makes us more unhappy.

And so because survival is built within us, you know, we all we all recognize the importance of inflammation, right, in chronic disease in holidays. I'm sure many speakers spoke about it, but inflammation is really not to cause inflammation as a result. It's a response. Inflammation is the response to our survival drive. So when we initially because it's automated, we respond to the autonomic nervous system through the sympathetic system, either by fighting which equates to inflammation to struggle or by flight, by running away, by hiding, by isolating ourselves, which which equates to fibrosis, to creating a micro environment where bacteria, viruses, heavy metals, toxins can hide or an arterial sclerotic plaque can can be created by cancer environment if it's cancer.

So this so this is on a on a, on an auto on a autonomic nervous system level. And we can balance it. So we're taking deep breath through relaxing through shifting to a parasympathetic mode. But biochemically within minutes our survival proteins are turned on. And the one I've been researching for almost 30 years and developed a blocker for galectin three, which is but 80 published papers, a lot of them in cardiovascular and and circulatory issues is galectin three. So galectin two within minutes will rise and it will drive upstream.

It will drive the inflammatory response through all the different cytokines, and it will drive the fibrotic response. And as such, galectin three is a driver of heart disease. For example, if you look at the heart failure, the level galectin three in heart failure will dramatically determine the outcomes. To a large study, almost 400 people people with galectin three under 17.8 with congestive heart failure, one out of eight died in one year. But if the galectin three was over 25.6, no join. Not such a big difference.

So 37% would die three fold. Will die in one year. Practically everybody will die in three years. Why? Because galectin three will shift this outflow towards an ejection, preserved heart failure to either fibrotic heart failure or. You know, we have a saying in Hebrew, heart of stone still even there. So that what? So now. Wow. So galectin three is part of isolation can also isolate our heart. So an emotional point of view. You know, if people have an MRI and they hear music or meditate within an hour of getting an am I the galectin three levels will go down by about 1,015%.

There will be a significant decrease in damage to the tissue. So you can see it's a multifaceted connection. That for me is interesting because on one level I'm a researcher, I'm a licensed acupuncturist, I'm a I'm a I'm a physician. I do different things, but I research very actively. And but in this in my research is focus on galectin three, you know, not for visits, but in the same time, I spent decades, training and teaching meditation and healing. And I was fortunate to tweet and study from some of the greatest masters in the Himalayas.

And so I got to this idea of isolation and opening our heart, both from a research point of view, like therapeutic aphorisms as an example and from a point of view of my own, my own meditation path and the, the, the United in the same time. So in this says, the survival paradox is a profound effect on our quality of life, but also it is a specifically important effect on the heart and on the relationship between the heart and the kidneys. And, you know, both of us share a similar tradition in Hebrew with the famous saying saying both can live.

The client, you know, write the exam. And then I say, God examines the heart and the kidneys is the way to know if the person. Galectin three will drive acute kidney injury. And when in galectin three, excretion through the. So the kidney will directly cause damage to the heart. And when you blow galectin three in animal models, in Archi models, you eliminate the damage to the heart. So we all know the relationship between hypertension, kidney disease, heart disease. And so galectin three plays a very big role in it.

And of course, it's a big subject, much more in a than a in a short interview. But I just wanted to give the flavor of the interrelationship

Heart, Kidney, and Fibrosis Connections 8:18

between different organs in the body, in relationship to the heart, and specifically the fibrotic effect driving TGF beta driving, male fibroblast driving, hardened heart tissue damage over time in collecting space involved. So I just want to break this down because you just gave a university grand rounds, you know, a lecture that was so beautiful. You've got my heart palpitating. From an academic sense, I just have to go off a couple paths. So you use the Hebrew term? I'm just curious when, when, Pharaoh's heart was hardened in the traditional story of Passover and Exodus, do you think it was galectin three that was responsible for Pharaoh's heart being hardened or it went up after he did it?

There you go. First the mind or the biochemistry? Right. That's there a little levity. Number two, I have to ask. You seem to have a good sense of humor and we're getting to know each other. When you chose the name of your book, Survival Paradox. And it's about a human made compound called galectin. There was a book a few years ago with a different term, paradox, that was about the idea that plants want to kill humans with lectins, plant derived compounds. You're talking about a human derived compound made right and encoded on chromosome 14.

You make it, I make it, everybody makes it. Was there a little bit of humor in the title of your book? Well, you know, it's I've never asked this question. It's a great question, you know, is it the king of lectins is galectin three. Galectin three is the most research lectin. But since this is my work for since the 90s, it already belongs to somebody, you know, and the invention and the relationship with inflammation and fibrosis. But when I, when I came to write the book, it was really a way of expressing a deeper message because my initial book, interesting about the topic of it is of this summit, my initial book, which was written in Hebrew and finished.

But then the Covid it came, so I decided not to put it out. It was called Open Heart Medicine the Infinite Healing Power of Love and Compassion. And they talked about the healing power of the heart and really refused to live up a tour, which is really, really what I teach and how I tried to live my life and the power of healing and will I want to touch in it because that's amazing. But that's why the heart is a standalone organ. It's the emperor of the body in Chinese medicine. But then my second book was going to be more scientific about the concept.

But since I jumped to my second book and I decided to really give this a more scientific, imagery view of these 45, 50 years of studies, you know, I mean, my 60s now. And I started my journey learning martial arts in Korea and you're going, I was 15 years old in Korea, so almost 50 years. And then I really realized, wow, I really want to get people to look in and say, wow, how can we change our survival response? How can we move from reactivity to responsiveness? And this is really what the heart is about, because every single cell in the body wants to survive.

We agree and sit in the body as a membrane. You decide what it takes in, it takes in what it wants, when it can control and it puts out what it doesn't want. Right? And same with the tissues, same with the organs. The only organs that behave differently is the heart. The heart takes the junk that everybody doesn't want all the venous blood. It doesn't say, I'm going to take it only from the kidney, but not from the liver, or only from the right kidney, not from the left kidney. It takes with an open heart instead of reacting and saying no.

And fighting like a membrane will do, like an immune response will do it. Except it. It connects with the universe through our breath, through our Nishijima, and then in the air. And then when the air touches our mouth, especially our mouth, because then there's no filter, this piece of air is connected. Think about it with a whole universe in all times. Actually, that's the deep depth of the connection of the heart is a micro reflection of of the bigger picture. And then the clean blood comes to the heart.

And what does the how do the heart gives blood without discrimination? Right. The altar is a stiff artery. Blood goes everywhere. But who does the heart nourish itself first? It nourishes itself through the coronary artery. But only once it's finished its work. The heart is the only organ in the body that nourishes itself. Only once it's done with offering to other. That is, selflessness of the heart. So this is this. So the the heart of survival. What they chip chapter six in my book, The heart of Survival is realizing is the survival of the heart is to give.

And that's why the heart is what the deacon you know, in Kabbalah, the fixing happens. The heart is what we can heal ourselves. That's why there are so many studies about the healing power of the heart. So when we talk about reversing heart disease, that's one part. But the other part is really getting a glimpse and connecting with the secret aspect of the heart with the healing, with the healing aspect of the heart. And in this sense, I find that phenomenal kidney heart connection from this esoteric point of view very fascinating.

You know, it's amazing what you just covered. So let's go back just for a moment to the biochemistry. Many people listening have never heard of a compound that we have brought up to the lectern, something made by humans. And you quoted data. I think that was the pride study, that if you're a sick heart patient and a high level in the blood of a test, you can order a Quest Lab LabCorp called a galectin three level. If you're a sick current patient and you have a high level, your prognosis is worse.

And if you're a sick card patient but your blood level galectin is lower,

Modified Citrus Pectin and Galectin-3 Blocking 14:45

you may have a better few years ahead of you. And it's a test available in cardiologists order it not as frequently as probably you think they should or, some centers do. Why do you think our body makes collect? And what's the good news? What what's what role does it serve? And then it goes wrong. And some people think so is one of us survive a protein in the embryogenesis especially intracellular and in in the nucleus it helps embryogenesis, especially the kidneys. When we are aging, it helps us survive.

Bye bye bye bye. Being in charge of the injury repair. So is it galectin three. It is. It responds immediately to injury. It responds through again creating an inflammatory process and creating a fibrotic process. So for example, I have published two important papers when I'm studying sepsis in acute kidney injury when you take a sepsis model in in in animals it's called a c CLP seek ligation puncture from and you create sepsis if you give them modified C to respect. And if you block galectin three just before you create the sepsis, you will dramatically attenuate the rise in interleukin six, which is still relevant with the Covid you you will dramatically attenuate the rise of creatinine and you will reduce mortality from 60% to 20%.

Same if you can. Here you use a perfume, a perfume, a perfusion injury reperfusion model which is so relevant in cardiovascular disease with cabbage with the heart lung m a in a process in the surgery when you cut the surgery is the blood supply. You get damage to the kidneys. The connections to be from the kidneys that is excreted immediately will affect the heart. So when you block it with modified it, respecting you will attenuate the damage to the kidney and as a result, the damage to the heart.

So the beauty and the importance of addressing galectin three, even if you block it, even if you remove it with, with a therapeutic for this, which is my main project, that I got an NIH grant developing a special column for me, it will still be expressed in the tissue where it's needed. So it's not like removing something that like TNF alpha that you want to remove to reduce inflammation. But it is an immune response. It's different. It will still be expressed in the tissue will where you need it.

But the excessive galectin to me in the circulation, in the extracellular fluid, in the connective tissue affecting the receptors on the membranes will be reduced. All right. So in diseases that are involved with scarring, liver injury and heart attack, where the process of recovery has to involve creation of scar tissue to heal the area of damage, and there's fibrosis or scarring. Galectin three will be the fancy term upregulated. So I mean, when galectin three rises in a patient with congestive heart failure, is it actually galectin three produced in heart cells that leaks into the circulation.

Or is galectin three you know, it sounds like it's made in it can be made by most cells of the body. Yeah, it's a great question. So some of it will be produced in the heart. And and when you block it, you can see, for example, an animal model reverses in the out stenosis etcetera. But some of it will be produced in other organs is a signal that the body is in a low signal and then travel to the heart. So the latency is really the bus or the drive. The different ligands drive, the fibrotic ligands drive the sticky molecules, drives the immune dysregulated molecule is blocking normal immune response in the tissue where it's needed.

But the mechanism if you does in order to survive, is an unhealthy mechanism. So that's the paradox right there. So you know, that's 1 to 1 practical conclusion so far as all the listeners should go read a bit more about galectin, because it's probably the first time they've heard about it. And there's a Wikipedia page I cheated, I looked galectin it give you a little background number two. It's also 10,000 published papers. Been three. But most listeners aren't going to read 10,000 publications.

So just just to illustrate, it's not like, oh my God, 10,000 people. That's okay. I'm just trying to be practical. Number two, would you advise that all the listeners that actually have heart disease ask their cardiologist, their internist, their practitioner for a blood level? Galectin three, knowing that a high level might give them a clue that there's trouble brewing and they can go to a Quest Lab or LabCorp, should they get a galectin three level? Yes. But qualified? Yes. But this is not what should determine if you are going to use modify to respecting.

And if somebody you know who has been formulating and doing developing products for decades, and it's not something I would have said ten, 15 years ago, modifying it, respecting is the number one supplement anybody can take. Most important. And the reason is it drives the aging process. It drives almost every disease. For example, two weeks ago we presented the multicenter trial on biochemical relapse of prostate cancer. When prostate cancer is removed and then it starts coming back. Now M modified respect.

It doesn't kill the cancer directly. It allows the body to respond better. And 18 months follow up 90% benefit 9 to 0 okay. So this is for example in oncology is oncological support. Why? Because this survival driven inflammatory fibrotic process in immune dysregulation for example immunotherapy doesn't work if galectin three is elevated will will affect so many diseases. Why did why did they say qualified because of some complex genetically derived biochemistry, say without using fancy terms, certain people will have lower galectin three than others and they still will need to blow galectin three even if it's 8 or 7.

The other thing that is really important to be aware of is it the standard for galectin three was based on congestive heart failure. Patients in many of these, as you know well, have kidney disease and there is no not good excretion of galectin three. So the level of galectin three are much higher than they would be in people who don't have kidney disease. So 17 point under 17.8 is considered a normal for me. Anything above 12 is already a red light, and I've seen thousands and thousands of of results, especially now that the SS automated is no longer many like it was in 2011.

The results seem to be lower, so why would you check at the level of galectin three? Because if it's high, there is something going on, then you would be required to take a higher dose. Or even if you think you're doing great, there is some kind of fibrotic inflammatory process going on and you just have to put more attention into it. All right? So it could be high in part because of reduced kidney function, but if it could actually be unexposed to the low because of genetic influences. Yes, because of MMP nine, because of because it can come in a lot.

It can come in pinto males. The the detector detects one if it's five of them or it's one of them. So if people have more monomers they will have more detections. The number will be higher. If it's ten times the number in the essay will be lower. Okay. So everybody listen. We're talking to an incredibly intelligent man who both takes care of patients and does research, even funded by the National Institutes of Health. This is really a great opportunity. But you just brought up another term, and I think it's so exciting that many listeners don't know that this is not just a theoretical discussion.

You developed and researched and have available a natural product that actually comes from citrus called modified citrus pectin. And I won't be shy. It has the brand name practice all and you have researched it because it blocks galectin three, lowers the level of galectin three, and protects organs from unrestrained scarring and fibrosis. And clean that up for me. Yeah, so. And galectin three gets called as is damaged by attaching and either to the membrane of the cells or to other galectin three or to different ligands, different compounds through what you call a carbohydrate recognition domain, through a site that looks it goes in this way.

Apheresis, Lipoprotein(a), and Inflammation 24:18

It modifies introspecting blocks these sites, breaks down the lattice, formation the paint terminals. It creates a coating, a shield microenvironment and allows the body to respond better, allows better oxygenation. It allows better metabolic function. For example, galectin three will block insulin receptors. As a result, you will give you will have a Ampk and expressed into one overexpressed EGF overexpressed. And you get a change in metabolic function sounds. That is not not not a good idea. So so so yes. So modified.

It was baked in blocks, block the effect of collectively. But in the same time it's also an excellent key later of heavy metals and other toxin, which I published extensively on since the year 2000. So I don't want to embarrass you in every vacancy as well, but we have practice all in my house and I just took six capsules an hour ago, and I'm feeling like my brain is firing pretty good. I got a feeling you've helped me here by allowing this modified citrus pectin to go to these carbohydrate receptor domains and block any galectin three I have in my bloodstream from causing unnecessary damage.

That survival paradox. Who should take back this all? I think you're going to say every human, because we want to protect ourselves from this terrible mTOR AMP. Cage action. You actually guessed right. And, you know, when we started, the initial focus, doctor, was that I could collaborate with from one universe to you, you in the late 80s, early 90s, when we started, the focus was oncological support. And, you know, it was a natural product. If it was a drug, you can imagine the attention because multifaceted respecting affected the metastatic metastatic process first time any compound in medicine did it.

But when people started taking it, suddenly the reports were my memory is improving. My joint pain is, is better, my blood pressure is better. And that's when I realized, well, it is. Galectin three is driving inflammation. It wasn't known then, you know, and actually what we are seeing is the blocking of the inflammatory, damaging process. And then when the Chernobyl incidents happened, they used some pectin to reduce the radioactive readings of children. And I realized, wow, if what if I try to spit in, gets absorbed into the bloodstream?

I got an amazing collector of positively charged heavy metals and, I produced the first data in, I think, in 2000, 2001. And since then we published quite a few papers showing how modest it was. You can reduce lead and mercury and even uranium. And so that's another side side benefit. And we also saw some of the immune benefit and we did some work with the USDA. And we saw that, this specific motif I did was picked is 10% rum, no garlic, two and and two, which is the active immune enhancer present in mistletoe.

Wow. So that's so this is why it is a very interesting immune immune regulating effect. And for those of you that don't know, mistletoe is a lectern containing plant associated with the Christmas. But it's used in oncology clinics as a therapy for cancer. I have helped some of my fellow colleagues in Detroit get, prescriptions for mistletoe, so I didn't realize it was through a galectin pathway. How fascinating. And again, heavy metals, Mercury, lead, cadmium, arsenic. You can run. You can't hide. They're out there.

If any of you are left eating tuna fish. Stop right now. You're getting mercury every day. And take some practice all and eat some hummus instead. It'd be much healthier for you. You do a procedure at Amitabha that is fascinating. And it's, extensive. This topic call for recess. Everybody knows dialysis. You cleanse the blood in people with kidney failure. But as a cardiologist, I have patients with tremendous blood levels of cholesterol and light bulb protein. A and there's been a FDA approved procedure where you cleanse the blood not of kidney byproducts, but of extremely high genetically derived cholesterol and lipoprotein cholesterol.

What is the role of Pharisees in your clinic? I was fascinated when I was reading about that on your Amitabha website, so I got a I got interested in the Pharisees when they started, when it came with the idea of of of removal of a of of, of galectin three. So after this, that's a project I've been working on for ten years. And so in this country, LDL of a racist lipoprotein, a phrase is approved for probably 20 years, and it's used it's not used enough. You are aware of it. And now maybe more cardiologists, but many cardiologists are not.

And so there are certain, prevalence of people with very high cholesterol that need this procedure. But I use it, for, for indications beyond, beyond the removal of, of, oxidized lipids. I do check lipoprotein A in every patient since the mid 90s. So it's really the only thing that can lower lipoprotein A, which is a major silent killer as you, as you know very well. So we use it for inflammatory conditions. Okay. Okay. Up to, I've written a book called lipoprotein a the Heart Silent killer. So I couldn't agree with you more.

And you picked the right terminology. No, thank you for that. Out. Out of the blue. You know, people don't know. And it's, so I, I'm a I'm a I'm, I'm a lipoprotein addict. I take every patient and it's surprising how many people have a problem. And by the way, you see the oxidation and rising lipoprotein A is a consequence of Covid long haul. A lot of Covid long, long patients oxidize lipids, dramatic shifts. And then it also relates to changes in the interleukin six. There's a cytokine lipid oxidation balance in dense, which now there are millions of new people in this in this in this bucket.

So we use we use that for races to remove inflammatory compounds and also to remove cytokines and to remove oxidized lipids. And the idea is it you expose a tissue that needs to be healed to the body to heal. And that's where medication supplements dietary lifestyle work better. Very dramatic in oncology to be done before chemotherapy, before before immunotherapy, but very significant for relieving the pressure on the heart and on the kidneys. And it's one of my main tools, together with modify introspecting for stopping and reversing.

Believe it or not, chronic kidney disease. Chronic kidney disease is actually a treatable condition.

Lifestyle, Meditation, and Heart Health 31:36

And it's one of my hopes in the is to actually demonstrate in the next five, ten years and, make a statement about it. So you I mean, amazing. You're going to win the Nobel Prize in medicine. I'm going to nominate you as soon as we're done talking, and you deserve it. But you showed us quickly a cartridge that a patient would be sitting in a chair with a pretty large intravenous line. Blood comes out, goes through the cartridge, removes the galectin and the so, so this is this is what my this is what my NIH grant is for.

This is not irradiate. I'm now finally filling the columns. And after many years of work and developing antibody, etc., we are finally doing the proof of concept in sepsis in animals. The final proof in the safety studies. And once we do the safety studies, we are going to move into the clinic. Because I have demonstrated that when a patient with my colleagues, when a patient walks into the ICU with sepsis, without existing heart, kidney conditions or cancer, their level of galectin three will determine which patient we later on develop acute kidney injury in which patient will die.

A patient post kabbage, which is very relevant in cardiology without a preexisting kidney disease. We know they just did it. There wasn't anything I before the level of galectin three before the surgery. And when they come into the ICU post-Covid will determine who will get Aki. So now there is a way for acute kidney injury. So now imagine we have a way to determine who is right. It's always who are this unexpected patient who will suddenly get Aki. People are not there. Well you go to every corner artery bypass.

You expect to work out healthy. Well, 10 to 30% get acute kidney injury, 5 to 10% going to dialysis and 2 to 5% die in the kidney. The kidney damage from the perfusion injury from the lack of circulation from the heart lung machine is a driving force in galectin three drives it. So these are some fascinating projects I'm working on. And yeah, it can save us, you know, millions of lives if it works out. So everybody's listening and they've learned they can get a blood level. Galectin three. There's a few pros are a few cons. Of course.

They can read your book and learn a lot. They can, research this, widely available supplement called pectin. Sol modified citrus pectin. You have to be tough and take six capsules. But they went down smooth and easy. And I feel great. And then there's all this future bright, research. But we want to prevent heart disease naturally. So give us a few more pearls. It sounds like everybody should get a lipoprotein, a blood level. I couldn't agree more. Right. I will give us a few lifestyle pearls. I mean, you're a licensed acupuncturist.

You're a mind body specialist. I mean, leave us with a couple thoughts, on how to deal with a stressful world. Yeah, and I'm sure that many other speakers have contributed. And you and you yourself, with your experience and your knowledge. But it's the same lifestyle principles that help so many things. So one of the big things with the heart is to create a space in our life, to find a place where we can create a moment that we slow down. And for many people who have a very intense, schedule, I say do it in the five minutes when you wake up and do it in the five minutes before you go to sleep.

When you slow down, you take a few deep breaths. Anything in your day that didn't go well for you or that you didn't do well to others. You just regret you let go of it. Just take a few deep breaths and feel like you can imagine white light coming through the top of your head or through your heart and feeling every cell in your body until you feel more spacious, more relaxed. This spaciousness, this means that your cells are getting more oxygen. They're more relaxed. They will go through a better repair cycle during the night.

And when we wake up, same thing. You sit up, you take a few deep breaths, just a few exhalation, and you just let your mind and your heart open until you feel a sense of relaxation and clarity. So. So the sleepiness clarifies. And instead of driving into the inner roses of the mind and thought after a thought, you create this, this spacious place and stay there for a few minutes. And this will change the quality of sleep and the quality of your day. The other few that are very important for the heart health is one we get to be well-hydrated the job of the heart is to bring blood everywhere in the body.

The water drives drives our fluidity in the body. Many of us are chronically dehydrated and then find something that relaxes you. Whatever works for you. It doesn't have to be something I told you. I recommend it to somebody else. Whatever resonates with the person. And we need to be aware. The electromagnetic field of the heart is 100 times bigger than the electromagnetic field of the brain, which means how the heart feels. If the heart can move from a place of resentment, of reactivity, of fighting, to a place of acceptance, of love and compassion, this quality is affecting every cell in our body and the people around us.

There is no other organ that can do it, and that's the heart to heart connection that's coming from them. Even from a meditation point of view, coming from mindfulness to healthfulness. And that's really where the big healing happens. That's why I always say one of my favorite saying, not everybody will be a miracle, but anyone can be a miracle because everything changes all the time. What drives the change? What drives our infinite healing potential is the heart that keeps on taking on and giving.

Taking on and dealing with the heart stops our life itself. Wow. And it's so beautiful. And I mean, we'll stop. I do want to, just as a cardiologist, explain what you said so elegantly a little back this, but it's consistent with this closing beautiful, beautiful comment you made that when the heart contracts and ejects blood forcefully into the aorta, it's actually not getting any blood itself. It's feeding the rest of the body. It's the next phase, the relaxation phase. We call diastole. So the heart feeds itself after it's done that hard lifting of blood to go throughout every portion of the body.

I've never heard anyone explain that before, and makes such a beautiful parallel with serving others before you serve yourself, but I just wanted to come back to that because it's such a powerful teaching point and as a student of heart disease now for also almost about 40 years, I mean, I'm, I'm stealing that because that's great. It's beautiful. I'm going to tell my kids and my grandkids that they serve others. They fill their own. Don't fill your own arteries until you fill other arteries. It's really self-love is part of loving others.

Very different than narcissistic focus. And if you think physiologically, the heart technically could have fit itself in the left atrium when there is it. No. When the diastolic phase it didn't. It finishes its work, it's done. And then it takes time to. But it does have to take care of itself, otherwise it won't be able to give the next pump the next contraction better. Right? We got to take care of you better, right? That other book in English and get it out there. Yeah I am, it's there is, there is a whole meditation way of, of dealing with traumas and reversing diseases.

I sure hope so. It's in the plane. All right. Very good. Well, thank you so much for sharing with us such profound science as such. So much enthusiasm for the future with the NIH project is practice. All is available everywhere I go. New Genesis is the company. They have a website. Doctor Lyons has a website. I'm a DBA. A resort has a website. All that will be in the summit. But thank you for sharing from your heart to everybody. It was really wonderful. Thank you for tuning in to Doctor Talks. We hope today's episode has enlightened and inspired you on your path to optimal health.

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