Why Doctors Burn Out, and How to Find Your Way Back With Dr. Michael Hersh

Podcast Introduction and Guest Welcome 0:00

Welcome to the Doctors Making a Difference podcast, where we help physicians to be empowered with the tools they need to successful in medicine, in finance, and in life. Join us as we highlight doctors and other professionals around the world who are making a difference. I'm really excited to share our guest today, Dr. Michael Hirsch. So I am recording this intro after the podcast and it's such an engaging, funny and wisdom-filled podcast with Dr Hirsh. I think you're really going to enjoy it. A lot of listeners to the podcasts are physicians who are saying, how do I stay in medicine?

How can I figure out a way to still stay engaged? What do I need to be able to show up for my patients and to Show up from my family when I show Up home at night. Those are all really important things that we're going to talk about in this podcast. So I encourage you to tune in and listen. I think every person who listens will walk away with at least one or two actionable things That you could say, this will make a difference in my day. And I can be a better physician and I Can feel like a more complete fulfilled human being.

I am delighted to welcome Dr. Michael Hirsch. Dr Hirsche is someone I've respected and listened to his podcast. He's a fellow podcaster on the Dr Podcast Network. he's A gastroenterologist. And he is just a really inspiring guy to listen to. So I'm excited and really happy to have you here on The Podcast. Would you mind introducing yourself briefly to our audience today? Dr, Hirsh. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. Super excited to be here today. So yeah, as you were saying, I'm Michael Hirsch.

I am a full time practicing gastroenterologist, a husband, dad. As you mentioned, i'm a podcaster and i am also the founder and creator of Better Physician Life Coaching where I coach physicians on reconnecting with medicine so that we can finally enjoy the lives we have all worked so hard to build. I am a mid-career physician. i've been out of medical school almost 25 years and I think anybody that's been in this for that long you start to kind of almost feel like sometimes you're losing your way and trying to sort through that.

And that was a lot of my journey, which I'm sure we can talk about today. And, that's what brought me to the things that I am doing and where I m at. Awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Rewind just 25 years. How did you choose medicine? I know that everybody kind of writes their personal statement, but I think this will be relevant to our discussion of how you stay relevant today and how to stay coaching in medicine. Why did choose Medicine? Why you chose Gastroenterology? Yeah, honestly, medicine was the only thing I ever wanted.

I remember being in middle school and having to research a career and going to the school library and finding the book. And there were all of these words that I didn't understand, like residency and fellowship and all these things.

Dr. Hirsch's Background and Path to GI 3:00

But I always knew that this was what I wanted And I was applying for medical school in the late 90s. It was incredibly competitive. I actually wasn't entirely sure that it was going to be my future. And there really was never anything else. and I went straight through and it Was a solid path and i was actually gung-ho pediatrics. Really wanted to get pediatrician. i Was the president of the peds club for my med school class. And I think the third year of medical school, and I know medical School has changed a little bit from when I was in it, but 30 it was really my favorite year where I just got to experience all the things and really enjoy fell in love with internal medicine.

And then I matched it internal Medicine and did my internal Madison training at Washington University in St. Louis and. I always loved GI, but it just seemed so competitive. I love the personality of the people. You know, it's hard to deal with poop all day and not have a decent sense of humor. So I just really enjoyed the procedures, I enjoyed to the clinic, and it is just one of those things where I will say I don't know how it happened, But it all worked out exactly like it was supposed to. And of course I was there for all of it and worked really hard for it.

But just incredibly grateful that it did go the way that Oh, thank you for sharing that. I think all of us can reflect back, like, oh, hey, why did I do this? Why did i begin this crazy journey? It's a long road. We had a student working with me today and the question, you know, somebody asked, well, what do you want to do when you grow up? And well I either want it to be a CNA or I want a general surgeon. Well, there's vastly different training between those two things and it wasn't Nobody was trying to necessarily sway the student one way or the other, but when you think back, when your student, why did you engage on this 15 year journey to become a physician and then why you're still in it?

And I think it's relevant now as you are 25 years into it and you work as a practicing physician, which also work is a coach. And so I wanted to ask you a little bit about that as we begin talking a bit of the nuts and bolts of this. What have you found personally that keeps you engaged in medicine? You know, this many years into it, as you've done the same procedure and talked to the disease pathology process again and again, what gets you up in the morning and says, let's go do this? Well, I think that actually speaks to a little bit about how I found coaching because as I've already mentioned to you, the only thing I ever wanted to do is be a doctor.

There was not an entrepreneurial bone in my body. That was never a part of me that thought I was gonna host a podcast or be on other people's podcasts. All I wanted do was practice medicine. And I would say probably about seven or eight years into my full attending job post fellowship, Everything just started to feel different i think i had already built a practice my practice was super busy it was growing i was married we had our first and then second kids life just starting getting busier. I had an experience with medical malpractice litigation that just sent me in a tailspin.

and made me feel like the only way I could actually feel better was to get out of medicine as quickly as possible. And so I really started focusing on the financial independence, retirement, early movement. I didn't want to spend any money on anything because every dollar spent was just one more day I had to keep practicing medicine and really just was searching for a way out and then COVID hit. It was like kerosene on the burnout flame where I didn't know what to do. And that was actually when I found physician coaching.

Burnout, Malpractice, and Finding Coaching 7:00

It wasn't because I thought it was the answer to all the problems I had. I was just grasping at straws at anything to help me keep going. When you ask the question, what keeps you in this? How do you keep going? It has been that process of refocusing on the things about medicine that I do love and finding the ways that have control over my day to day. It's really transformed my experience and has allowed me to remain full time in practicing. Yeah. Well, all that everybody listening, again, the very large majority of listeners are physicians.

All that nine out of 10 can relate with what you just said. I've been in this for a number of years, I got hit with a malpractice or some ridiculous thing that doesn't make sense. It's so punishing and so painful. Or maybe I had an administrator that just ground me into the dirt or something that it just makes the practice of medicine so onerous. And yet you have to step back. I think all of us do and say, okay, I bring something really valuable to the table when I come. How can I be whole and ready to do this so that when i show up, i'm ready, to help you as the patient and not just this burned out shell that wants to get out of medicine.

And I see you, as a dollar sign to fill up my fire bank account so I can get. And I think we've all related to that. And so that's why I really appreciate you sharing that every single one of us has to figure out how come you still get up in the morning and still do it. You were eventually able to find your way to coaching and back to practice, you know, COVID eventually kind of ended. How did you do? You could have walked away and said, I'm going to do something completely different. But what kept you going?

Yeah, for me, it came down to refocusing. I was so focused on the fact that I didn't have control over anything. There was much that was going on in my day-to-day that out of my control. In effect, I living at the effect of the day. If a receptionist yelled at me. A patient was mean to me if a procedure didn' t go well. Through that process through coaching I found new ways to think through my day and to recognize like for example I worked all weekend on Saturday I saw 16 new consult it was a very very busy day.

And. All I could think the entire day was like, thank goodness I'm here to take care of these people because they need me today. Like I was actually kind of happy I there to be able to do it. And that mindset took a while to get to, right? Like there was a day where I would have just been angry and yelling and slamming the phone down. That doesn't mean there weren't frustrating parts of the day. It doesn' mean I don't have the normal human experience. I've just learned to see these days a little bit differently than I used to.

Yeah. When I think back, there's a few episodes ago, people can search up Dr. Stuart Clive. Stewart is a really cool doctor. He decided to donate as he's getting toward the end of his career, an entire year salary just to cure blindness in people in Ghana. Every penny he makes is going to that. And he just said, every day I show up, I love going to work because everything I do is helping the person in front of me and I'm sending those dollars to help somebody else and so I encourage you to listen to that one and then the other thing I was thinking I shared on this podcast my listeners will know you know I've been through this horrible experience of having a tumor and radiation and chemo and all the things that go with that but when I realized medicine was going be taken from me or potentially that I could never do it again I connected with some of the stuff you just said like oh I'm needed.

I want to be here. i'm thankful for the opportunity. And when you start kind of mentally saying, I am looking for an opportunity to here in front of somebody, it seems like some of those annoying things go away a little bit. It's not just like the rah rah Rah Club. You can actually change your mindset and say, i am happy to have been here and i also know when to say no. When i don't want do something or i need to take a period of rest. it's easier for me to not do that. I think it's really an interesting transformation.

You described it, you know, through your own experience. A hundred percent. And I love that this conversation started with like, why was I on this path in the first place? Because it really was important for me to remember what would 18 year old me who was working so hard to get into medical school think of 48 year-old me trying to run away from it. It's so important to Remember those things like this is all I ever wanted. And so now i get to have it and i got to appreciate it i know it sounds who and there are probably people out there listening thinking like oh this is

Reframing Medicine and Staying Engaged 12:00

a little and it is it's also a hundred percent true this. How i have been able to remain full time and practicing and. It was a complete mindset shift from where i was just a couple years ago. Yeah. And you can make substantial changes in your daily practice. Like after my little experience, I'm still going through it. I think all of us are a work in progress, but I have found showing up to work just a few minutes early, getting my stuff organized, maybe checking on something that I didn't get done yesterday.

So I've not just thrown right into it the second I get there. That helps me a lot. Showing up and actually planning to eat lunch at least two days a week. It's so hard to Eat lunch because there's So many things going on but actually try this planet bring my lunch with me and set it aside because before I would say the previous 12 years I probably ate lunch once a month because you're just so busy doing so many Things those two little things just showing up a few minutes early and planning to eat lunch a couple days a week like that just totally changed my mind.

Just walking outside for a few minutes in the middle of the day, even if I'm just walking over to the hospital from my clinic and looking up and seeing the blue sky, it sounds woo like you said, but those simple things actually kept me grounded. They still keep me ground. I try to intentionally do that and it has helped me. What else have you found to be helpful? You just hit on two of the things that are like key, except I eat lunch every day. And actually, that was a huge part of my story. You know, as a proceduralist, we were trained you start doing colonoscopies at 730 in the morning, you finish at five, and you work straight through.

If you have a few minutes that you can find, I can eat something, but otherwise you're scoping all day And as part of my coaching journey, I was challenged with adding a 30 minute lunch break into my procedure days and I got so much pushback. People did not want to give me the 30 minutes because it was going to interrupt the flow of the day. It was gonna cause so many downstream issues, the staffing, all the things. And it. Was important enough for me to fight for it and it has made all. The difference in the world because.

The staff is much happier to work with me in the afternoon after I am fed and have had 30 minutes to myself, and I feel so much better. And it has made the day so easier. I know that I have 30 to eat and has transformed everything. Then I became an example for other doctors who then also added lunch breaks to their day. So it shifted how things go in endoscopy lab when people saw like, oh, you mean we can add a lunch? I want that. That's been huge for me. I'm envisioning people who are listening to this who aren't physicians who just like forehead slap.

What in the world? You're saying the thing you discovered is that you should actually go outside, sleep at night, and eat lunch? What? You guys are crazy, but that is really kind of the culture of medicine is wake up early, show up, early do rounds, get there really, really early. Do all that stuff, do your procedures and clinic and work through lunch and stay two hours after clinic. And then do it all again and take phone calls all night. baked into the training so much. And it's almost like this militaristic like mission driven first before caring for yourself.

Yeah, we're healers. That's our job. We're supposed to heal people. How can I heal if I'm broken? It's a really interesting dichotomy. So I appreciate you describing that. So one of the other questions that I wanted to turn to this is, you've done quite a bit of coaching around male physicians. I would say the female physician wellness space is pretty saturated. There's lots of excellent information, excellent books and resources out there, but half of physicians are still male doctors. And sometimes I don't see a lot directed toward that and that does in no way a dig against anybody who's doing it at all.

But that's something you've done a little bit of coaching and say, Hey, let's talk about issues that relate to men who are physicians in 2026. So would you mind kind of walk them through how you arrived at some of those things and what are some things you have learned or found to be relevant as you teach people? For sure yeah and that's the entire reason why I'm here because in that initial physician coaching program that I found the majority of the physician coaches were women and they were amazing.

And I really appreciated all of their help and it just left me wondering where are the dudes like where all it can't just be me and. through that process, just decided there needed to be more male physicians out in the world talking about these struggles that we're all experiencing. And again, I don't want to engender this, but I think these are topics that are really challenging for men to talk about. They're challenging, for physicians, But for Men in particular, it's very hard to Be vulnerable in these ways to Talk about The challenges that were facing to say like look I wanted to give up I want to walk away I wanna do anything else I was hungry and I just wanted a lunch right like these things.

I remember some of the experiences in that initial coaching program where I would come there and talk about like some the most mundane parts of my day and leave feeling this incredible vulnerability hangover like I had just revealed the Most personal detail of My Life when it was just because again like. a receptionist yelled at me or something like that. Part of the reason why I decide just thought that there needed to be more male physicians out in the world talking through these things. And I would say as I have worked with male positions, one of things that comes up all the time is this idea of balance of like how do I work all day and

Daily Habits for Physician Well-Being 18:00

then come home and actually be present with my family. It's so hard to shut off. Medicine becomes just a part of who we are and part our every day. And then we get home, and we're just supposed to turn it off and be president and home. That transition can be so challenging for all physicians, but I find that for the male physicians it's one of the bigger things, just the balance of all of it. Yeah, I do believe that balance is one of the more challenging things about, probably all demanding careers, but I think physicians, maybe particularly male physicians but female physicians everybody finds that balanced to be challenging.

One of things that I reflect on is Sometimes you think, oh, I did a good job today. I was a great doctor. Did all the things. Filled all of the prescriptions and called everybody. Was nice to everybody and all that stuff. Then I come home and 20 minutes later yell at my kids or lose my patience. And I think all right, i am a terrible human being. Or I'm a jerk. Raise my voice at the person that I love. Would do anything for this person and yet I lost my patients with them. It's probably because there really wasn't a transition for me to go to work.

and then come home and say, okay, I'm ready to be fully present here and my emotional well or that account that we kind of all have just to withdraw for our patients and our kindness and a long suffering and all that kind stuff is maybe already empty. I already depleted it and now I am here at home. What have you found to the useful tools for all physicians, maybe particularly male physicians as they transition and try to find some measure of balance in that? Yeah, what you were just saying rings so true for so many of us.

We give it all at work and we come home and feel so depleted. And when I think about why do I go to work every day, yes, it's to care for the patients, but it is also to take care of my family. Then I come back home, and they get not the greatest version of me. Until I learn the tools to actually come home and be the husband and the dad that I wanna be. And the problem that you were just also highlighting here is that when we come and we are short tempered or we snap at the people that we love, it's not just that moment, The guilt and the shame that follow afterwards like you were just saying like oh not only did I make a mistake and I snapped at my kid, but I'm a horrible person for having done it and it's so hard to make positive change from that space where you're beating yourself up.

And so number one. Part of the tools to use in this particular is a little bit of self-compassion, which, by the way, doctors are notoriously bad at, right? No, first of all, they don't want to talk about self compassion, but it's also really hard because most of us motivated ourselves with negative self-talk so that we could be so productive so we can get things done. I did it too. And it's really hard at this stage to now go back and remind ourselves, oh wait, I would never talk to another human being the way that I'm speaking to myself in this moment.

So how can I be kinder to my self so I can be the person that i want to in a particular situation. And then it's really about making a clear transition. Like what is the process that you go through when you are leaving work, commuting home and walking in the door? And I'll just offer that I do have a tool that is free and available on my website, betterphysicianlife.com, which is called the five minute commute reset for physicians. And you can go and download it and there's a five-minute audio that takes you through exactly what to do so that you can effectively make that transition.

No, thank you for sharing that. I do believe that's an important process for all of us. Some people have a long commute and that might offer that opportunity to listen to some inspiring music or listen a podcast or listened to scriptures or something that kind of rebalances or re-centers you. some people will have very short commute. And I just walked out of that procedure and this complicated thing and now we're hurrying home to get some family event. it really is important to have, like you say, some kind of a five minute, just relatively short thing to say I'm re-centered and rebalanced.

For me, I have about a 12 minute commute and I can use that time to listen to a podcast or call somebody or do something that's really productive and giving me more information. But I found it is better use of the time, to do one of those centering activities. To think about how the day went, what are we going to How am I going to approach this so that I'm mentally ready? And for me, like I said, a lot of times it's doing something that's not work and not family and, not productive, just center my mind.

And often it is music or like, I've said scriptures or something, that is kind of inspiring and helpful.

Lunch Breaks, Boundaries, and Balance 23:00

I don't do it every time. But when I walk in the door, instead of being confronted with the chaos of kids and homework and a million responsibilities and the kids fighting with each other and all the things that happen in family life, it does help. And so I have you found anything else to be helpful for balance, maybe more specific to male physicians? Yeah. Well, and again, to your point, like balance is an issue for all physicians, right? And so I will just say, it does come a little bit back to that some grace and some kindness for yourself.

Like I was telling you before that I on call this past weekend and it was incredibly busy and I barely saw my children. Barely. I worked all weekend, I felt really badly about it. And today, when I got home from a full day of procedures, I ate dinner with my family. We went for a walk. I did math homework with. My son were planning a little trip that we're taking this weekend. And so a. Little bit of the mindset piece of reminding myself like balance doesn't mean everything is equal at all times.

Balance means that sometimes some things are going to get more attention than others. And it will shift at some point in time, like next weekend, it'll be all about family. Right. And so balance gets to even out over time. It doesn't have to all be happening on the same day. Yeah. I would say that for me, I sometimes feel guilt for sin, right? Sometimes I feel guilty, even though it's not a sin to work for your family. If you rob the bank, you should feel a guilt, that's what it is for. It's baked into our psyche to be able to feel good when we do something that is wrong.

But sometimes I felt guilty when I'm working to earn money for my family and to take care of my patients. And I just spent a weekend, like what you described, I just spent 48 hours when I should have been with my family, and I have spent all of it working and went from work at five o'clock p.m. on Friday, and I showed up at work, at seven o clock in the morning on Monday. And in that time, I got just a few hours of sleep, didn't see my family. Instead of saying, wow, did a difficult thing, good job me, this was great.

I'm thankful I had the opportunity to work. Glad I have the health to do this. So thankful my wife was supportive while I was able to this, that I am married to such a great person, yada, instead of that, sometimes I come back and say, feel terrible. Not only tired, I didn't spend time with the people I love and all I can think of in those moments, which is really bad to make life decisions in. Those moments is I wish I could get out of this. I wished I had could fire right now and not ever have to this and we could all just sit around and be together all the time.

But I think that is erroneous thinking. And again, guilt shouldn't be assigned for the opportunity to care for your family. Guilt is, like I say, is built in if we do something that's terribly wrong or hurt somebody. So what are some reflections on that and how would you advise physicians to deal with that? I guess that pulling of responsibility that feel like I need to be here and yet I feel I can need it here. And it really is a real difficult juxtaposition. Yeah, so there's a couple of points here.

The first is that we can only be in one place at any one particular point in time, right? There's only ever one thing that can be doing and so sometimes that thing is going to have to be work and like you were pointing out, the work is not just for the patients, it's to support our families as well. And so there's a little bit of a reframe there in remembering we're doing this for our families and so that is one piece. The other piece here that you were talking about, you're like, I wish I could just retire and never do this again.

Most physicians are highly motivated. They enjoy being productive and busy, and is it really true that you just wanna sit in a hammock and drink pina coladas and read books? Like that sounds really nice for a week, maybe for two weeks, but at a certain point, you're gonna start getting antsy and want something to do. And so I always talk about how do you create the life now that want to continue living, right? Productivity for me right now looks like full time doctoring. And as I start moving toward retirement, I'm thinking about what do I want to be doing with my time then?

And I am testing these things out now to figure out what I like. So again, there's a little bit of a fallacy there that in retirement everything will be better because you're still going to want be productive. You can start figuring that stuff out. Now. I was just going reflect on what you said. Again, in those moments when we're super tired, overwhelmed, I've been on shift for so long, it's easy to think like escape,

Male Physician Challenges and Home Transition 28:00

escape. And you described that before COVID, and I know I felt that, before like I just have to figure out a way to get out. This is so hard. Like you said, 18 year old me would probably be ashamed of 45 year-old me thinking those thoughts. But sometimes you think that. In the moment, It's easier to just think, well, if I could only just sit on the beach and in a hammock and do nothing, would seem nice and really what you said it is really important we need to design the life now that we want even right now because if you are always living for tomorrow and it's kind of the age-old adage you're always looking for a tomorrow you never gonna be happy with today and you just never going to be a happy period it really importance design it and i think it it actually really helpful for me and probably for a lot of people to sit back and say, what do I want my day to look like?

What do i want? My week to like, and then put the pieces in there and said, well, I have to work. I need to exercise. And you just sleep, but should eat and to purposefully design it. Instead of just feeling like you're flying by the seat of your pants, say when I'm here, all the way here. When I find those moments where I'm all the way home, or I am all at work, wherever I do, I feel fully invested and fully present in that moment. It's kind of like the magic happens. What are the thoughts you had on that?

Yeah, the word should. And how much damage that word can do as we are thinking through where we're supposed to be and how we were supposed be. I refer to that as shoulding on ourselves, partially because I'm a gastroenterologist and if you say it quickly, it sounds funny. But those expectations, you know, put so much pressure on us and it really does impact the way that we think through our day. And when you're thinking I should be doing this, Who says how do you know that that's what you should be doing is it possible that you shouldn't be exactly what your currently doing learning to onto yourself you are brains are gonna be constantly selling us stories and just like in the store you get to decide if you actually want to buy the thing that your brain is selling and sometimes it's worth buying and other times it worth declining.

And learning to ask yourself those questions, noticing when you're using those should statements, when those expectations, those a lot of times self-imposed expectations are coming up, finding ways to start questioning them. And it can be hard to do for yourself and finding way to really catch yourself, and notice how often you are saying what you should or should not be doing. Thank you. It's good advice. The word should probably should not be necessarily how we coach ourselves. I mean, it's really important to make sure that we are looking at the day with some measure of purpose.

wanted to shift in the last little bit here. All of us feel the stress of work. We have a busy job. If you're a doctor, you've spent years at it. You have. A busy. Job. it, challenging, rewarding. Got all the coolest things about being a physician and all of the challenging things. There are folks in medicine who have suicide thoughts, who get really deep into this. And we've gone from, my life is difficult, I'm trying to figure out how to balance it, to I have a psychological mental health problem and I need to do something much more drastic.

We don't want drastic to be leaving your family and all the things that are beautiful in your life. For sure, you don' t want that to turn into suicidal thoughts and, all I can think of is end program. It's really important to identify that in ourselves if you find yourself saying i am at the end of my rope i'm in red alert. Danger area what have you found as a coach to help folks say am i just feeling the stress of a busy job. Or i really need to go get the psychological help because i going to be in a really dangerous dark place.

Yeah, this is such an important topic. You know, we lost my wife's cousin who was a fourth year medical student to suicide. And it is a topic that is so important to me because of that. Kevin shadowed me when I was fellow and was just a tremendous personality and such a wonderful person. It was tremendous tragedy and there are so many resources. Yes, there are roles for coaching, for finding ways to better yourself, to enjoy your life and your career better, create the balance that you're looking for.

But if anybody is having those thoughts and not sure, it's never the wrong idea to talk to somebody. There are so many wonderful resources out there for doctors, like Physicians Anonymous, where you can call a hotline that is staffed by psychiatrists physicians, it is anonymous and a wonderful resource for any doctor who just needs to talk to somebody and is looking for something that is non-punitive and anonymous,

Guilt, Productivity, and Designing Life Now 33:00

but you know, gets you the help that you need. Yeah, and you are right. Many state medical chapters, state, medical societies have free anonymous coaching and counseling to tie you in with resources because people do feel it's something I wish was not stigmatized, stigmatize when they seek mental help. It's really important to recognize that. And I wanted to bring it up as we talk about it, because we're talking about some really practical things that help, but also recognize if yourself, or maybe a colleague is really in trouble.

Because when you think about medicine, it is a really unique, challenging, cool career. But if somebody is just down all the time, and everything is horrible all they might be really dealing with depression and sometimes just saying, hey, are you okay? And sometimes people might grouchy, but if they know that you really are actually sincerely asking, Are you OK? That's an important thing to ask to our colleagues and it can be lonely. Medicine can lonely, even though you're talking to people all day, you can feel very alone.

And so I want to acknowledge that as we kind of transition toward the end of this. But any other insights or pearls that have on that, Michael? Yeah, I just think you were just talking about how lonely this profession can be, and it's so strange, right? Because as you think about what it was like in college and medical school and residency and fellowship, there is such a huge community. We are surrounded by each other, supporting each and then you're 100% right. You finish, you get through your training, You get to the pinnacle of attending hood, And you are on your own.

surrounded by colleagues, but kind of siloed in ways that we are not able to support each other in the same way that were when we were in our training. And this does get a little bit back to the male physician piece here because I think one of the things that male physicians maybe struggle with a bit more than our female colleagues is vulnerability. And the truth is, we can all together make this profession better when we work together, when are here to support each other. And you were just acknowledging, sometimes just asking somebody how they're doing can just shift their entire day.

So how can we make the profession for eachother is simple things like that, just showing up for one another as often as we Thank you so much. Well said. I want to make sure people can follow your work, Michael, and access your information. You've got a whole wealth of wisdom and resources that are useful for folks. Where can people follow you at work? Or do you have a LinkedIn profile? How is it that people could get in touch with Michael Hirsch if they would like to? Absolutely. Well, again, thank you so much for having me.

I loved this conversation. So you can check out my website, betterphysicianlife.com. That five minute commute reset for physicians is there if you are interested in checking that out. Great way to create that transition between work and home. And then I do have a podcast by the same name, Better Physician Life.

Mental Health Warning Signs and Support Resources 36:00

You can find that anywhere that you listen to podcasts. And yes, on all the platforms, LinkedIn, connect with me there, Instagram. And again, thank you so much for having me. It's been amazing. Yeah, it's done. My pleasure. Thank you. So much. Thanks for tuning into the doctors making a difference podcast and thank. You for what you do to help your patients and your community. Your work truly helped so many people. We produce this content to. Help you have the tools you need to stay in medicine and to highlight the amazing work being done by physicians around the world.

Please note that while I am a physician and many of the guests on this program are also physicians or other professionals, the discussions on the podcast do not represent my employer or any professional organizations to which I belong. This podcast is for your information and entertainment only, and should not be taken as professional advice. You should seek appropriate professional advise pertaining to your own situation. Please check out more of our content on our website, DoctorsMakingADifference.com.

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