ZEOLITE: The Detox Hack Nobody Talks About (with Jeff Hoyt)

Podcast Intro and Guest Introduction 0:00

There's a certain amount of energy the body has to deal with everything on a daily basis. If someone goes through an extreme period, maybe it's a multi-year period of emotional stress, just as an example, or it could be some sort of physical stressor, the body has a reduced capacity to deal with the heavy metals and other toxicants that are coming in on a daily basis. And whatever the body can't process daily and excrete and clear, the body stores into tissue. Hey there. Welcome to the Recharged Biomedical Podcast.

I'm Dr. Edward Park. If you're curious about regenerative medicine, you've come to the right place. We're diving into the latest breakthroughs in telomeres activation, stem cell exosomes, and all the cutting edge science that's shaping the future of healing and longevity. Let's get started. Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Recharged Biomedical Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Ed Park, and today we're lucky to be joined by Jeff. Hoyt. Hey, Jeff. Thanks for coming. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me.

So Jeff Hoyt is from Zeolite Labs. Are you one of the principals, owners, chief, whatever? Yeah, I'm the all of the above. I founded the company. So yeah, I'm the president. We're going to go pretty deep into zeolite. For those that don't know, this is kind of a miraculous antitoxin. And we'll talk about how to use it and what to expect. But first of all, tell us your backstory. How did you get involved with this? Yeah, absolutely. So really personal health challenges. So just starting about 16, 17 years ago, started having some health challenges.

And it was just, you know, started my journey, just started to figure out, try to figure out, you know, what is it that I need to do to get better? Went down the conventional route. I wasn't finding a lot of the answers that I was looking for. Then I was introduced to functional medicine about 14, 15 years ago. And basically, my friend was like, oh, you should go see my doctor. He's not covered by insurance, and it's like $500. I was like, OK, great. So I saw a functional medicine practitioner, and that opened my eyes to a new kind of realm of what's out there, just what's available,

Jeff Hoyt's Health Journey and Functional Medicine 2:00

still science-based. therapies and testing, but things that make a little bit more sense, a little bit more root cause, trying to identify some of the, you know, internal imbalances, as opposed to just masking symptoms. So then I was introduced to a food-sensitive—actually, my functional medicine doctor recommended that I take a food-sensitivity test, which I did, and I thought that was pretty interesting, and I ended up writing a job proposal to that lab and worked for the lab. So I got into the food sensitivity testing.

That's where I ended up working with a lot of different functional practitioners and figuring out what was working well, what wasn't. And then I did some functional diagnostic nutrition training. I started doing my master's program in functional medicine and human nutrition, which I didn't finish. But just got into a little bit of coaching, mostly just trying to educate myself, but also to potentially help other people. Then I was introduced to the industry of supplements. And that's a huge rabbit hole, right?

There's so much stuff out there. A lot of it is not going to be great. There's a lot of marketing companies that are selling supplements. They're marketing companies first, supplement companies second. You know how that is. So I just got kind of started going down that rabbit hole. saying okay there's specific ingredients why from this manufacturer is the ingredient 20 times as expensive as from this other manufacturer right and it's there's just a huge difference in quality in nutritional supplements and then I started looking at the therapeutic dose it's like all right so first we need the right compound and then we need or the right nutrient then we need to take it in the proper dose to get the desired effect in each individual which varies greatly from person to person generally what you see on the label It's not necessary.

That's just a general recommendation for a healthy person. It's generally not what people need, especially if they're facing a complex health challenge. So I started doing research into therapeutic dosing specifically for natural extracts, polysaccharide extracts. So things like Ace Manon from Aloe Vera, the different polysaccharide extracts from additional mushrooms. just kind of that realm of glycobiology, which is just a kind of sugars. So a lot of these naturally occurring sugars in polysaccharide chains are immune regulatory.

So they're natural immune modulators. And I just thought that was very interesting. A lot of the adaptogens that we find in nature are kind of the adaptogenic properties stem from these polysaccharide compounds. So very interesting. I started a company based on that concept. Then I ended up doing, opening up kind of a wellness slash biohacking center pre-COVID where I was doing in a red light therapy, oxygen, hydrogen, PEMF, full body cryosana, neurofeedback, all that stuff, just all the traditional biohacking.

And I was trying to make kind of make that available and then do some coaching and then make available supplements, etc. And what I found was the missing link, for me at least, was effective detox, because people could come into the center, they could prop themselves up on this technology, they could feel a lot better, But then when they stop using the technology, they're back to where they started. For the most part, sometimes it was sustainable, but usually they ended up where they started. So it wasn't removing internal stressors, it was just helping the body handle the daily life a little bit better.

So I said, okay, how do we effectively detox the body? I started looking at different approaches. And then ended up one of the tools I ended up using was zeolite. And I was so impressed with zeolite that I started this company, Zeolite Labs, and kind of went from there. Because I discovered that, yes, it's an interesting mineral, but it's misused and misunderstood. So that's what I've been trying to do is educate people on how to use it most effectively. That's amazing. Yeah, I mean, you seem healthy.

So I must have helped you with some of the challenges that you had. Yeah, I've come a long way. Well, do you have a book that we can read about your journey? I don't have a book out. I have a lot of videos. I've got a lot of content on the website right now. It's the best spot. All right. Well, that was awesome. I think we got a good feel for what brought you here. So let me, in my way, see if I can explain to the audience what Zeolite is, and then you can correct me as I'm wrong, OK? So the reason I wanted to do this interview is because I am a person that will entertain any thought, but it can't stay unless it's validated.

And the most valid sources I have are patients. And a lot of patients do have chronic illness. And pretty much uniformly, I'll have positive things to say about zeolite. And when I talk to functional medicine docs, as I do, it's one of the main tools in their armamentarium. So basically, zeolite works, in my experience, secondhand hearsay. So it's basically an aluminum silica compound that comes from volcanic ash. and it can contain various amounts of water, and if you eat it, it passes through your bowels, and as it does so, it sucks out toxins, which can mean a lot of different things.

Is that generally the gist of what we're talking about? Yeah, I would say that's all correct. So there are synthetic versions, there's a mobile patented version, but zeolite is a general term for like a honeycombed tiny 0.7 nanometer porous honeycomb that has an anionic structure that can replace the cation. So it might come in with sodium and leave with some kind of nasty toxin like beryllium or something, I don't know, like something bad, uranium. So it can just like a sponge as it's going through your GI tract, it won't cross over it, but it'll leach out some of the more toxic heavy metals, for example, among other things like mold toxins that are in your gut, mold toxins in your body.

So it can kind of magically, at least the clenoptola, how do you say? Clenoptilolite version will not leach your good minerals or electrolytes excessively. Is that mostly true? Yes, so there are two points to impact there quickly, and you kind of nailed it. So zeolite is a class of mineral. It's a naturally occurring mineral, but it's a class of mineral. So there's a number of different types of zeolite. Clenoptilolite is the type we're talking about here because that's the form that's been shown to be safe for humans, and that's what's used primarily in supplements.

There are synthetic forms of zeolite. some of which are also promoted in supplements, which I don't advise to take those, but those act completely differently because those don't have the same properties, because those are synthetic compounds that don't have the same natural exchange properties of natural zeolite. So you said it kind of stops things up, which is true, but what's interesting about zeolite and how it's a little bit different from, say, activated charcoal or bentonite clay or some of these other more traditional binders, because that's what zeolite is, right?

It's a binder. Right, so what makes it different is it's not indiscriminate in its binding capacity, so it doesn't just go in and grab everything it sees with a positive charge. As you mentioned, it is negatively charged, it grabs the positively charged, but it's a swap mechanism. So in the zeolite cages, right, these porous structures, you have the electrolytes, potassium, sodium, calcium, magnesium,

What Zeolite Is and How It Binds Toxins 9:00

and when they come across essentially heavier elements, things that the zeolite is more attracted to, it swaps them out, but it leaves the essential nutrients alone because it's working through the swap mechanism, not just the sopping up mechanism like an activated charcoal. So people have activated charcoal, they have diatomaceous earth, they have which is more bile acids. There are different binders, but this to me in comparing them, you know, seven or eight binders, it seems like the most safe and the most inert.

Would you agree? Yep, absolutely. Because some of those you mentioned, there's issues with each binder and advantage to each one, but like diatomaceous earth, for example, it's fossilized diatoms, right? So it's a very rigid, sharp structure. which a lot of people use to go and try to, you know, a lot of people are using it to try to get rid of parasites. And I mean, they use diatomaceous earth in gardens to rip off the exoskeletons of insects, and then it dries them out. So essentially, it can potentially have anti-parasitic and antimicrobial effects, but it's through kind of this sharp mechanism where it's destroying it.

Yeah, it's like ground glass or almost like, yeah, I used to change my pool. My parents didn't want to pay a pool cleaner, so I used to change the pool builder with diatomaceous earth. Yeah, okay. So tell us the use cases. And before we do that, I noticed that you have the oligo scan, which I thought would be more expensive, and it seems to be a legit thing. So you basically put your hand up to a light and the spectrophotometry measures all these different various minerals by their, I guess, a light signature.

So I guess that's how we tell what exoplanets are made of or something. Way above my pay grade. But for $140 to $300, you can find out what your minerals are like through your excreting polymer skin cells. It's a cellular. It's not a serum test like a blood test. It's a cell test. And do you think this is pretty accurate and reliable? Obviously you do. And one thing I would say is it's partly a cell test, but really it's a tissue test, which includes the cell. I mean, it's shining into the hand and it's hitting tissue.

I like to call it a tissue analysis. I think that's a little bit more accurate than a cellular analysis personally, although it is marketed as a cellular analysis by the company. When it comes to heavy metal testing, most of them are accurate. It's just a matter of we have to understand what we're looking at, right? So there's always going to be, all tests are going to be misleading because they're just a snapshot in time. And with one snapshot, like one snapshot of the tissue levels of metals in your hand, gives you good information, but it's still limited.

If it's compared with a lot of other information, it can be more helpful. But in terms of reproducibility, I would say it's the most reproducible heavy metal test I found. OK. Well, you know, I mean, you've been in this space for 15 years. All I know is I once took like a hair analysis and they said, oh, you're good. You don't have any of these heavy metals. I thought that was kind of amazing. But then there's the whole issue of provocative testing. You hear this a lot in functional medicine, like you need to Like, we get it as doctors when we treat Lyme, you know, we treat Lyme, we get a Herxheimer reaction for a brief moment, those spirochetes are floating around for another home to get lodged in.

So you're saying using the oligo scan is like a before, during and after? What's the optimal use if money is not an issue? So what I do, I treat it like the other testing. So you mentioned the challenge test, right? Like the urine challenge test where you You do a baseline test to see what you're naturally excreting through urine and then you take an agent, provoking agent like an EDTA or a chelator or even a zeolite, whatever it is, and then you measure it again maybe four hours later and you see now how many metals are coming in the urine because there's a baseline of what your body's detoxing on a daily basis.

And then you can accelerate that release through the detox agents. So you want to see higher. So when you get the baseline test of any test, you get false negatives because you're not looking at what's in your brain or what's in your kidneys. With the oligo scan, at least you're looking what's in general tissue to begin with. but you're still not looking at what's in your brain or kidneys or a different organ. So I do a 30-day challenge test. So I'll do a baseline test. I'll put them on the detox protocol, whether it's just CO charge or a combination, retest them in 30 days, and the goal is to see movement.

Because if nothing's happening, it means the protocol is probably not working. If the levels go up, that's an ideal situation because it indicates the body has accelerated the detox process. It has mobilized some metals from organs somewhere or some other tissue. Now they're in the hand. And then in the next test, we see those levels start dropping. But it's a cyclical. It's kind of like a counterintuitive thing, right? Because people think, well, it's going up, it's worse. But that's the whole thing about blood testing in general.

It's just a snapshot of what's in the serum. And there's other labs that say intracellular is worse at. It's both. It's like these are compartments that are in communication. So you're saying like, if the second fish tank that you're washing the dirty fish tank out is less or more clean, it shows something is moving, something is changing. So ideally, I mean, it's not that I have a patient who loves exosomes, that he was a big fish eater. Marlin or whatever. And he was so toxic with mercury. And his journey was crazy.

He had to do self chelation. They blew all his veins out. Luckily, the exosomes got his veins better. But he got Mad Hatter's disease. As it was coming out of his system, the mercury levels were so toxic, he got hallucinations. So, but I think what percentage, if we're looking at disease prevalence, I mean, unless you live next to a fertilizer farm or a smelting plant, shipyard, I mean, what percent of attributable disease, real disease, clinical disease, is from heavy metal toxicity, do you think?

So here's the thing. And it's not necessarily that the heavy metals are usually causing the clinical diagnosis. It's that they are a result of a clinical diagnosis, and then they become contributing factors. So for example, there's a certain amount of energy the body has to deal with everything on a daily basis. If someone goes through an extreme period, maybe it's a multi-year period of emotional stress, just as an example, or it could be some sort of physical stressor, the body has a reduced capacity to deal with the heavy metals and other toxicants that are coming in on a daily basis.

And whatever the body can't process daily and excrete and clear, the body stores into tissue. I love this. I love this functional medicine perspective because people will look at, we just did a podcast on Alzheimer's cure TV 0086. But it's like that amyloid is the buildup of a failed glymphatic process, lack of sleep, excessive immune activation, other things. There's so many points of entry and failure into your immune system, your psychiatric spiritual alignment that causes the heavy malice to build up, you're saying.

So it's the breakdown of the natural detox in the liver, your P450, whatever, your bile excretion, and other things. A high correlation with people who are glutathione depleted, methyl tetrahydrofolate reductase people, do they get toxic faster? Could be, I mean, there's usually triggers to that enzyme that make it more problematic. So a lot of people have that genetic, but aren't manifesting issues. So there's usually other factors that are in play. But once one thing kind of starts going, it's this negative snowball effect and then everything gets messed up.

I agree with you totally and that's a great insight. So, you know, there's people who have gut candidiasis, right? There's no reason why it wouldn't work on that. I mean, the toxins right there in the gut, but you're saying you could pull out heavy metals, some of the mold toxins, micro, mycotoxins are incredibly immune suppressive and perhaps even contributing to leaky gut. So tell me your best case or your best idea of why gut dysbiosis and leaky gut and toxins are related. Yep, absolutely. So first, I always like to step back and say, why is the body doing what it's doing?

Because the body knows what it's doing. Sometimes we try to fight against it and we don't get the best results. But why would the body even store toxic elements to begin with? It's like if these things are toxic and they're causing issues, why wouldn't our body just get rid of them? It's because they can't necessarily. And when the toxic element, let's say mercury comes in from the marlin, from your client, from the swordfish or marlin, whatever, mercury comes in. If there's more circulating mercury than the body can process, eventually the body says, I can't handle this level of stress because that's going to result in an immune reaction, an inflammatory response, a number of symptoms.

The body says, let's tuck this into tissue. Because when the mercury goes into tissue, it's hidden to some extent from the defense systems of the body. So it could be causing longer term issues, maybe a neurodegeneration or wherever it's at, it might be breaking down the cells in that organ. And if it's in general tissue, maybe it's not causing that many issues at the moment. But once it's released back into the system, like you said with the mad hatters, now it's like they were exposed for the first time.

Testing Heavy Metals and Detox Protocols 18:00

Like as you're detoxing, as it's coming out of storage, you're dealing with it, you're getting the symptoms because now your body's actively processing it. You're a little younger than I am, but you know, there were a lot of recreational drug use back in the day, and people had what they called flashbacks from LSD, because the lysergic gas would be stored in fat, and when people lose fat, it gets detoxed out of their system. But yeah, that's interesting. Have you seen, because I hear from patients, hey, zeolite changed my life.

And listen, if I was going to a biologic dentist and they were removing my amalgam, I would be on zeolite 25-7 just to kind of suck that up. But have you seen people really benefit in terms of their mold? Like if they have primary gut candidiasis or SIBO, can it help in that regard? Yep, absolutely. And I'll go back to your gut question, which I passed over a second ago, too. I'll combine them all together. So essentially we have... So when you have increased intestinal permeability, leaky gut, whatever you want to call it, and then you have toxicity, it's a cumulative damage.

Because now you have the toxicity that's already causing immune stimulation and issues, but once that leaks through the gut barrier into the immune system, it's causing even a stronger immune response and more issues. So, there's a certain level of toxicity that people can handle just from toxins from food coming in, your body digests it. It doesn't cause a strong immune reaction. If it gets to the blood where it doesn't belong, it's stronger. So, if you have leaky gut and toxicity, the problems are worse.

Now, toxicity can cause leaky gut. Leaky gut can potentially cause toxicity. It's kind of this thing where it all just play into each other. And then the question is like for healing leaky gut. I mean, it's not like you just take glutamate or whatever people tell you. It's a complex thing because you have to identify the source of what's breaking down the intestinal barrier. opening the tight junctions, removing those things, and then potentially adding some therapeutics to accelerate the healing process.

But just adding therapeutics sometimes works because it can overpower the toxic stressors, but sometimes you need to remove the source. So let's say there are micro toxins or heavy metals or environmental toxins. or, you know, inflammatory foods like celiac, you know, gluten from celiac or something. If you have celiac disease and you have extreme gluten sensitivity, extreme immune reaction to gluten, you're going to have to stop eating the gluten in order to heal the gut, most likely, you know, and maybe there's other ways to do it.

Generally, at least for a period of time, you're going to have to remove that type of thing. So when you have leaky gut, you generally end up in it with this environment where you have, you know, yeast is growing. You've got potentially small, you know, overgrowth of bacteria in the small intestine. Everything's just kind of clogged up. It's not an environment where you want to be. There might be lower stomach acid. There's just issues. There's an environment for toxins to thrive. But back to the question of Why is the body doing what it's doing?

It's not necessarily that, for example, candida might not be the enemy, it might be your friend, because candida binds to mercury. It binds to certain toxic elements. So is it possible that because of a mercury toxicity problem, the body is allowing candida to continue growing to help bind to the mercury to prevent the immune reaction? Now, the candida is causing its own problems because it's releasing all sorts of toxic waste products, but it might be better than having just free-floating mercury.

So, same with parasites. I mean, I definitely ascertain your point that it's always a delicate balance. You never know which came first. I will share in the post a guy who did take one exosome shot IV and it healed his leaky gut and I was shocked to see him look 20 years younger. Eczema, varicose veins went away within two weeks. So I didn't really believe in leaky gut that much. I interviewed Perlmutter. I was like, people are so crazy with the gluten. But this made me a total believer that there are tight junctions.

Just circling back to your origin story, they have, I don't know if it was Alcat that you worked with, but they have this company that will put your blood into a dish and expose it to like a thousand antigens. PMNs or the neutrophils get activated, there's some nonspecific food reaction. But even that, your profile of what you're sensitive to and what discharges the immune system is variable and it can change. So there are very few true IgG, IgA food allergies per se, but people's sensitivities can vary.

Do you agree with that? Yeah, absolutely. And the nice thing about them is they can be transient. The food sensitivities are generally a result of leaky gut because it's kind of... Okay, so let's say you're eating... So for me, almonds was a huge issue. and a few other things. And it was mostly the foods I was eating on a daily basis that showed up on the test. And that's generally what happens because you're eating these foods and you're not completely breaking them down. So instead of breaking down these proteins, they get to the bloodstream before they should get there.

If the body doesn't recognize them because they're not completely broken down, the body mounts an antibody response. So it's not that the food is bad, it's that the food got to where it shouldn't be yet because it wasn't supposed to be able to pass through the gut. But since it was leaky, it got through, body attacked it. So then every time you eat that food from now on, the body says, I remember this, this is an invader. If you heal the gut, generally those food sensitivities go away and you can start eating the foods again.

Yeah, I think that is lost on a lot of people who are more concrete and like It's a continuum. It's dynamic. So tell me, when you go and search zeolite, obviously there's other products. There's liquid zeolite. Is that even a thing? Explain to me how that could be. Well, there's no liquid zeolite. I mean, there's liquid zeolite sometimes, but zeolite is a mineral, so it's a big rock-like thing. Right, right. That's what they're selling, liquid zeolite. So I'm like, how does that even make sense?

I guess it could be micro-nized or something, but is it really zeolite if it's not like a powder? See, I'll give you the breakdown. And this is relatively new. That's the other thing about the zeolite industry. It's charcoal and these other things have been sold for years. The zeolite, you know, 25, maybe 30 years, but it's, it's really, you know, 2000 plus is when I started selling all powders initially, all powders. Then you got these marketing companies that said, okay, this is, you know, this is the top on this trend.

They started taking the powder, mixing it with water, calling it a liquid zeolite. And, you know, they called it nano, they called it cellular detox. We're talking about, you know, one milligram per drop or per serving on these liquids. For reference, ZeoCharge is 5,000. So it's just incredibly dilute and just using the Zeolite brand. Yeah, pretty much nothing in it. That's the cool thing, like, so your company is Zeolite Labs and you have a product which is branded as ZeoCharge and that's the Clenoptilolite or what?

I'll say it again. Clenoptilolite. It's the good stuff. So it comes from nature. It's not synthetic. And so it's a little pricier. But as a supplement manufacturer myself, a lady called me. I used to make ReCharge, which is a generic telomeres activator. I know that the supply chain is so vulnerable. And you always have to third party test for contaminants, pesticides, heavy metals. Well, in your case, it's coming from a volcano. But I assume you know the source of your zeolite. Yeah, so the thing about zeolite, because some people will say, well, I'm going to go on Amazon or I'm going to go on somewhere and buy zeolite.

The zeolite itself is very cheap. It's the manufacturing process that is expensive, right? So I like to say it's a solution from nature supercharged by science. Just taking chunks of zeolite is not going to do anything for you. If it's not micronized properly into a fine powder, it's going to be very limited in its effect because it has too low of a surface area. It's like dirt clods versus fine grain sand. You're doing a post extraction processing and I assume testing and make sure there's not a lot of impurities.

Toxicity, Leaky Gut, and Food Sensitivities 26:00

That's what you're paying for is the extra processing and the testing. For example, most companies won't give you a mycotoxins test because most of theirs are completely contaminated with mycotoxins. I would assume. Anything sitting around with mold. As a manufacturer, my bottler said, hey, why don't we just use this ingredient from the last batch? I go, I don't know. It's been sitting in the warehouse for four months. They're like, that's fine. Tested, it was full of mold. Yeah. So you've got to be careful.

And the thing with zeolite is zeolite is used for commercial purposes. So they've been using it for years for water filtration, for an industry, even for agriculture. So most of these companies just take the zeolite from these mines for commercial use, and there's no quality controls for human consumption. So it's totally different. If you're going to swallow it, it has to be safe. Now, comparing, you know, using AI as a cheat, I compared all the seven different binders. It just seemed very inert.

Typically, when a person takes zeolite in your form, zeo charge, it shouldn't cause diarrhea, it shouldn't cause constipation, as long as you're drinking up water, correct? Will it cause, if somebody has an inflammatory or irritable bowel, can it slightly worsen that? It could do either. And this is important because some people say, what are the side effects? Well, there's no, it's not a biological agent. It's not, like I said, it's a nerve. It's not a nutrient. It's not working out any specific pathway.

So there's no side effects. There's only detox reactions. So what you're reacting to, if you have a reaction when you take it, is is the net effect of the detox process. So what is being stirred up? What is being mobilized? If mercury is coming out and you react to that, you could have all sorts of symptoms, right? So for digestion, a lot of people continue taking it because it regulates their stools, people that were constipated, which is the opposite of all the other binders. Most binders are just inherently constipating.

80% of the time, it's regulating. 20% of the time, it still can be constipating, but that's generally not from the powder itself. It's a detox reaction that's resulting in constipation. And we can get into the dosing, but taking six scoops of ZeoCharge is less likely to constipate you than taking one scoop. which is completely counterintuitive. Yeah, now let's talk about that because you said a lot of times it's very counterintuitive. More is better than less. A lot of people like to ramp up their supplements of all types.

Tell me what the rationale is. Yep, and just I'll finish off the diarrhea. If diarrhea does, if you do experience diarrhea when starting on the product, that's not uncommon. Sometimes there's an issue of purging event, especially because there's biofilm disrupting properties of the zeolite. So if it opens up a biofilm and your body starts being, if your immune system starts getting exposed to parasites, you might have a quick flush out. So if you're getting diarrhea, it's not a bad, it's not a bad symptom.

That's actually a good symptom. Like I had a rotten, I had a rotten avocado yesterday. I had loose stools for a couple hours. Like the people don't realize how dynamic the gut system is. You know, it's really real time. I mean, so amazing. So, okay. So why is less in terms of the dosing going to confuse or confound the results? Yeah, so I discovered this. I call it the zeolite dosing paradox. I used to call it the higher dose theory. And I've got a 40-page document on the site detailing it. But essentially, what you don't want to do is you don't want to microdose zeolite.

Because so my theory is 10 milligrams of zeolite is more likely to cause detox stress than 10,000 milligrams. Because 10 milligrams is enough to go in and kind of stir things up, potentially cause some development. It kind of makes a mess. It does something. It makes a mess. But there's not enough zeolite left to clean up its own mess. So then the body has to deal with that mess that was made. So the net effect is actually a stress on the body. If you take a higher dose, the higher dose, you still go in and you make a mess, you store stuff up, but there's extra zeolite available to bind some of those toxic byproducts of the detox process.

That makes sense. It's like if your cat poops on the kitchen table and you only have a pitcher of water versus like a whole bathtub, you can get a lot cleaner with a whole bathtub of rinsing. Yeah. Okay, cool. Just as an example there because people always want to look at the direct binding capacity of zeolite to certain things and like, is it going to help with this, etc. It's all about the net effect, right? What is the total effect of what happens when you take it and that could, it just depends on the person, but histamine.

So zeolite does have direct histamine binding capacity. So people say, you know, I've got, so people might, let's say someone with mast cell activation syndrome, generally very sensitive. I see it a lot. Right. And they say, okay, I'm going to take the zeolite because it binds to histamine. Now, it could either result in a reduction of net histamine or an increase in histamine based on the body's response. Because even though it's binding to histamine, if there's a stressful response to the detox, the body will then have an accelerated immune response and start producing more histamine.

And you're going to have more histamine than when you started. So that's where the dosing is very important. Because that makes sense. And that's why the liquids and nanos generally are very intolerant. People don't tolerate them because you're taking these micro doses that go in and stir things up. People get terrible reactions. They think they're working because they're getting the reactions, but it's just a sign of an inefficient detox. Right. You could take a higher dose and not get the reaction.

It's working better in my cat poop. Now the cat poop is everywhere on the counter. Okay. I gotcha. All right. Cool. Now tell me about push catch versus catch and release. Yep. So these are kind of two. Well, push catch is a, I don't know if you're familiar with Chris shade, Dr. Chris shade. He has a PhD in mercury detoxification and he has, he has a line where basically his, he's, he's simplified it to push catch where he says we want to push toxic elements like mercury out of the liver. And then we want to catch them with binders.

like the chart and he does like, you know, blends of binders. So essentially the idea is detox is automatically going to add stress to the system because we're taking something from storage, we're putting it in the body's active processing center where we get the immune response, et cetera, and we're going to try to mitigate that stress with the binder. Now that's great for the average person because they can handle a little bit of extra stress. If you're at max capacity on your lead, your, your stress threshold, someone like with mass cell or Lyme or mole toxicity or a symptomatic person that generally that doesn't always work because they can't handle any additional stress upfront because they get terrible reactions.

So for them sometimes catch and release works better, where basically they reverse it. So they do the binder first, they try to reduce the circulating toxicity, and then they do the push, so the body has room to receive it. Now, that's catch-push, but catch-and-release is what I would suggest for people that aren't sensitive, because just taking zeotrich, for example, just catches. It's catching what's there, and then the body, if it wants to, the body will let go and release. So you're saying the zeo charge is gentler, especially if people are in one of these chronic toxic situations, as it's catch and release.

It's not pushing like a provocative EDTA or something like that. Okay, so it's gentler. So let me pivot real quick, because I know it's going to come up in people's minds. If this is so great, And we get this a lot with what I do in exosomes and with what we do in telomeres activation. Why isn't the FDA all over it? Now, the problem is that zeolites have naturally occurring things. So what's the intellectual property benefits of patenting something that anyone can own and undercut you? But question for the lay person, even though it's naive one is, is this FDA approved?

And what is the peer reviewed activity on this? Because academics also don't like to get involved in it and so grant money in it for them either, right? Yeah, absolutely. So it's not FDA approved and very few supplements are. Most supplement companies don't choose to go the FDA approval route for a lot of reasons, but essentially it's been granted grass, generally recognized as safe status by the FDA. So it has that classification. It's available to be sold as a dietary supplement. Just like any other dietary supplement, it's allowed to be sold.

There have been attempts there actually have been patents, at least one patent granted to Pharma for zeolite, because like you said, naturally occurring elements, they're not going to be able to patent, they can't monetize it. But they actually did. And we talked about liquid zeolite, there actually is or there was a patent for liquefied zeolite, where the pharmaceutical company said, let's take the zeolite, let's liquefy it somehow. But nothing happened because they destroyed the zeolite cage, and it was completely ineffective.

So you can't liquefy zeolite. So there was a pattern on it. It's like liquid sand. What's the use case, right? Yeah. So there was that. But for regulatory stuff, and it was there was kind of an easy entry into the zeolite industry.

Zeolite Products, Dosing, and Safety 35:00

There's a hundred moles to whack, but I guess people need to understand just because it's not FDA regulated, grass are generally recognized as safe, like the silica packets you get in electronics that do not eat. You can eat that, it's inert. And so zeolite is just like that, it's inert. Generally recognized as safe is the designation. And so it's not FDA regulated, but I know people have a buddy that was selling silica as a weight loss supplement and they went after him because his top line went to 40 million.

So are you concerned that if you make too much money, the FTC is going to come after you for health claims? potentially. And I mean, up until two months ago, we didn't even have social media, I'd never sent an email out to the so I wasn't too concerned. I just hired a marketing lady, maybe but I usually I'm very like, I don't really make claim. It's, it's kind of a personal brand. At this point, it's just me talking. a lot, even on the website, it's videos of me saying like, we don't know what's going to happen.

It's just, it's- Yeah, you got to have all that disclaimer language out there. But listen, the reason I want to interview was because, you know, I have patients for whom Zeolite has changed their lives. I don't know if it was your brand, but this stuff, there's no reason why it shouldn't work. It's science-based. And more importantly, the people in the street are using it, it's working. So let's break it down to like the top three to five indications. In my mind, You know, people who have mold, parasites, heavy metals, the bath salt activation, gut dysbiosis, anything else?

A lot of GI issues, a lot of people do find it quite helpful. Like for leaky gut, I would say it's one of the top foundational. And I like to say this, I'll say this as well. I consider Zero Church a foundation to a protocol. It's not the only thing you need. You can do it with, let's say, fecal transfer. A lot of people are into the baby poop. Let's say I've done a couple of podcasts on that, the Ackermansies or whatever and the Bifida. People are really coming at it from different things, but I think you're right.

To heal the toxins, to heal the leaky gut, to improve the biome, this is a foundational thing that can't hurt usually and will usually help and be synergistic. So the person who's going to benefit the most from XeoCharge is the person who is struggling with their daily dose of toxicity. So their body's not able to kind of keep up with the food, water, air, external exposure, and internal production, which is actually a larger source of toxicity. So that's metabolic waste products like ammonia, urea.

If your liver's not working, you're not breaking down ammonia properly. If your liver's toxic, you're getting recycled toxicity through the bile through enteropathic recirculation. Yeah, enteropathic. Yep. So it's like, it's not all about what's coming in from outside. Most of the toxicity is already inside of us from before and our body's just recycling it and producing it. So that's why people get confused. They say, well, I'm eating all organic. I'm in this healthy lifestyle, but I have all these toxins.

You're the major source of your own toxicity. Yeah. Yeah, both biochemically and emotionally, I find. Well, that's interesting. You know, I saw this funny bit. It was like in the future where they were so relatively less healthy from all the process this and manufactured and the glyphosate and that that they went back and they exhumed a 21st century human and they tried to reproduce. are diet so they added microplastics and antidepressants which i thought was really funny but i just read this shocking thing about uh starbucks or any plastic coffee cup they said that the water lining can melt with heat and release, like, microplastics.

That's another thing that no one ever told us. Is that true, do you think? Well, I haven't specifically looked into that, but I mean... That kind of freaked me out. Yeah, anytime you order a coffee in a cup, you're getting, like, a mega dose of microplastics, so you've got to bring your own damn container. Yeah, absolutely. I've got my own two glass. So you have to be careful. That's the thing. We're all going to be exposed. We can't escape toxicity. What we can do is optimize our natural detox functions so that we can better handle the toxicity.

And then the binder is the next step because it's like an assist. It goes in and it grabs things so our body doesn't have to work as hard. I mean, I'm going to try some, because I'll tell you what, all the due diligence I did around this, it just seems too good to be true. And sometimes things that are too good to be true are just true. So I think you're getting a lot of value without a lot of risk. That's my point. Well, people just have to know what they're getting into. Because there's so many incredible testimonials.

I mean, someone emailed me last night, and she was just like, I've been taking this for, I don't know, six months or something. And it was like nine months. And she said, I tried other zeolite powders in the past. They didn't work. I took yours. It cured my... She said her psoriasis left in 30 days and it never came back six months later. So it's like... That's the last night. But there's a lot like that. But when people hear these, they think they're going to get the exact same response. No, no, it varies between person, even in the same person.

But yeah, the fact that there's some kind of hack to a lot of these chronic disease systems is super interesting. And I think zeolite is foundational for a lot of different. So a lot of ways to get into, I mean, I don't even want to talk about the COVID thing, but it costs so much immune dysregulation, which caused autonomic, which caused nerve damage, which caused you know, mast cell activation, there's many ways to enter into dysfunction. But I think zeolite seems like mostly all upside unless you're taking too little or way too much.

It's a pinch. I'll say this. It's either going to make you better or worse. So that's the thing. It's either going to add stress to your system and make you more symptomatic or reduce stress on your symptom, make you less symptomatic. Now, even if it's adding stress to your system, the net effect might be positive because you're reducing the tissue level toxicity. But it's not sustainable. So I just think it's so interesting. Yeah, your point is very well taken as a heuristic. Like a little will just mix up the stuff and cause problems.

So you need to take enough. And that's so counterintuitive. Just just for reference. So people know what I'm talking about. So when we're looking at the liquids, we're looking at like two, maybe two and a half milligrams. The nanos have 300 micrograms, which is less than one milligram. One scoop. Actually, I've got a jar right here. One scoop of zero charge. is 5,000 milligrams. We're looking at 5,000 times the dose of the liquids. And then I take 12 scoops a day. So that is 200,000 times the dose of a nano zeolite.

Yeah. So don't bother on Amazon with the nano. Okay. Very good. Hey, one totally unrelated question, Jack, before I let you go. I got this. I go to these consciousness festivals. I got this black tar stuff. What's it called? What the heck is that? Have you heard of that? It's always like stuff. Yeah, we sell. We sell. Explain to me how some funky black mold growing under a rock in a tree.

Fulvic Acid, Final Thoughts, and Outro 42:00

can have all these healthy nutrients. Like, what kind of magic is that? Yep. So it's a tar that comes out of the Himalayas primarily. And the primary compound in chelicite that's responsible for its benefits is called fulvic acid. Not folic, but fulvic acid. And it's basically a, it's a nutrient transporter. So in the soil, there's fulvic acid that basically chelates to minerals and it helps, it brings them to the plant and helps transport those minerals into the plant cells. And a similar thing happens in humans.

So when people take a fulvic acid supplement, one, it's a source of naturally occurring trace minerals because it has bound them in nature. And then it helps shuttle them to the body. It has mild chelating effect, very mild. So I wouldn't really consider it a detox product, although people do. It was listed like humic acid, fulvic acid. Yeah. And I've been selling. I got nature's soup. It's got nature's super balanced heavy metals, I guess. It's got. I mean, some of them are not purified. Yeah, you don't want to just take like I don't take the tar or anything.

Ours is a purified Sheila shit, because there is going to be natural contaminants just like a zeolite. You want to have make sure it's purified to remove those impurities. But in general, even if there are some impurities like in the in the tar or whatever product, sometimes the net effect is still positive. I mean, I don't really take it, but I just thought I'd ask. You know a lot about it. I've been selling humic and fulvic acids for 10 years. So, those were some of my first ingredients. I've sold pharmaceutical-grade humic, like 98% humic, which is like a large sticky substance.

I've sold just the fulvic, the combos. There's benefits. I primarily like the fulvic acid and I combine it with the zeo charge because I don't need the humic acid to stay in the gut because I already have the zeo charge. So I like pure fulvic acid actually prefer the pure fulvic acid over sheila shit because sheila shit also is kind of has a bite to it. It's got it's kind of a sharp taste. Now it does have more adaptogenic properties because it's an adaptogen it's got urolithins and other things.

But the pure fulvic acid from like a soil extract like I get from the US, I like that because it's gentle. It doesn't have the adaptogenic properties, but it's just like we're missing the fulvic acid from the soil. And we almost have like a fulvic acid deficiency. We technically don't, but that's kind of how I look at it. And then adding it in can be helpful. I need to do more of a deep dive on this. Okay. Well, maybe we'll get you back, talk about that someday. All right, well, hey, Jeff Hoyt, owner and a proprietor of Zeolite Labs with their product ZeoCharge.

Again, if I'm somebody who's just out there and all the doctors don't want to deal with me except the functional ones and they're all doing this and that and the mumbo jumbo, it's something you can DIY it to an extent. And I don't think it'll break the bank. And you see how it goes. But just be aware, don't take too little on the first go around or you're just smearing the cat poop on the counter. Okay. All right. Well, Jeff, thank you so much for educating us and they can go to zeolitelabs.com.

There's a plethora of case studies, there are interesting interviews with functional med docs using your product. And really fast, thank you for sharing all that you know or a lot of what you know. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. I had a good time. Good. Thank you. Thanks for tuning into the Recharge Biomedical Podcast. If today's episode got you thinking, you'll love my book Exosomes, Songs of Healing. It's packed with cool analogies, full color illustrations, and all the science you'll need to understand how exosomes are changing the game in aging and regenerative medicine.

You can grab it in paperback, ebook, or audiobook, whatever works for you. Now head over to www.rechargebiomedical.com to check it out. And don't forget to like and subscribe so you never miss another episode. See you next time.