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William Pawluk, MD, MSc, author of “Supercharge Your Health with PEMF therapy”, was recently a holistic doctor near Baltimore, MD. Previous academic positions at Johns Hopkins and University of Maryland. Training: acupuncture, homeopathy, hypnosis, energy medicine, nutrition and bodywork. Considered the foremost authority on the practical use of Pulsed Electromagnetic... Read More
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Dr Shandles graduated the Temple University College of Podiatric Medicine in 1977 and completed residency at the Oxford Hospital of Philadelphia and the University of Pennsylvania Sports Medicine Center in 1979. His primary clinical research.hss been in curing pain in the feet, ankles, and legs, using a combination of a... Read More
This foot specialist discovered that he could take pain improvement from 70% to 95% using a special nerve injection and adding a well proven PEMF device. While his discovery was found in treating feet, he also discovered that the same principles can applied anywhere in the body with profound benefits to reducing pain. Unfortunately, there are not enough clinicians using this approach because it may dramatically reduce the need for more expensive and invasive procedures. He will be embarking on expanding training for other clinicians.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Hello, this is Dr. Pawluk. Today I have a special guest. I have just recently met him and have been really quite enthralled actually by his experience in what he’s gonna help to share with us. So welcome again to the PEMF Healing Summit and I have with me today Dr. Ira Shandles. Dr. Shandles is a podiatrist in Tampa, Florida and he’s a very enthusiastic person. So let’s welcome Dr. Shandles and Dr. Shandles please tell us something about yourself. How you started your career and go into the things we’re gonna really get into today.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Thank you for having me. I graduated at the Temple University College of Podiatric Medicine in 1977. I went for residency to a private hospital in Philadelphia called the Oxford Hospital with an affiliation with the University of Pennsylvania Sports Medicine Center for learning surgery and therapeutics, especially in sports injuries. Following that, I went into practice and allowed myself to research what medications could possibly be curative for injuries of the feet, ankles, head and legs that would commonly come into the office. I wasn’t looking for a treatment, I was looking for a cure. And using certain discoveries that were already made which is funny because I’m not looking for the better mousetrap. My studies of history have shown me the better mousetrap was already created, we just weren’t paying any attention. And so this is the laughable part of all this. Everything I’m curing patients with is between 60 and 90 years old today. And the cure rate with using the proprietary injection approach that we had without post electromagnetic therapy was 70%. And that was not satisfactory to me. I mean if I’m really, as a physician, supposed to be curing people, I’m looking for 90 to 100% and I thought that this was well below the standard of care in my opinion.
I know that’s what they preach at medical conferences but I think my standards are a little bit higher than that. So in my research, mysteriously in 1986 at a 20th high school reunion, up walks a classmate of mine who happens to be a graduate in engineering from Columbia University and he bends my ear and says, “You’re practicing medicine in Tampa, listen to me. “A salesman will come into your office very shortly “marketing a piece of equipment called the Diapulse. “He don’t ask any questions, listen to me. “You buy that machine. “You will see, hear me out, miracles.” Here’s an engineering student in electrical engineering from that university, prominent as it is where the machine was actually developed in 1934 and this is my classmate for all academic and over 90% of them go on to college. It was that type of a high school. So it was a big deal and we head back to, he felt so strongly about it he almost twisted my arm. He didn’t have to twist my arm. He convinced me by verbiage. In came the salesman a week later, no joke. And he sits down, he says, “I want to tell you about a machine.” And I said, “I’ll take it.”
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Pause, pause that thought. Pause that thought. So let’s go back to what you said, 75% cure rate right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Oh 70, 70.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Let’s say 70, 75%. Cure rate of what kinds of conditions?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Pain. Pain of the feet, ankles and legs.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Pain?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
And we’re talking permanent. I didn’t know completely it was permanent yet and I wouldn’t have said it at the time because I was on the course of performing a 10-year followup of 317 cases and I would not publish until the 10 years were up. Because I felt that anything shorter than that would be invalid.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So that’s a very, very, very good point. We hear from many, many practitioners, many salespeople and so on that we can cure this problem but when you ask them what their data is, well the data’s three months. And unfortunately, even the oncologists play this game that a cure is five years right? If you go five years after your treatment then you’re cured. It’s a game right? So you and I as clinicians know that cure, well it may take the rest of your life to have a cure right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Absolutely.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So you were dealing mostly with foot, ankle and leg pain issues? What kind of problems cause those pain issues?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Well that was actually my discovery and not taught to me in school because everything was the reverse of what I was taught. That it, do you want me to jump ahead? Okay, I’m gonna jump ahead. Go.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
No no no, we’re gonna go back. We’re gonna go back to the salesman walking into your office.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
He looked at me and his jaw dropped and he said, “You’re kidding me.” I said, “No, get the equipment. “We’re gonna start to use it.” And I knew exactly how I was going to use it and then he provided me with copies of 300 in national and internationally published papers on this one piece of equipment which I had never seen any volume of research, of data like that.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Okay.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
And of all the people around me.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
I’m really sorry to interrupt because I’m clearly hearing people who are saying, okay, pain. What’s pain caused by? So let’s go into some of the causes of the kinds of pain that you were seeing.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
That’s the surprise, there is only one cause. This was my discovery and it was not what we were taught in school.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So what we were taught in school was tendonitis right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yeah.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Inflammation. Fractures and neuropathy right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Arthritis, a whole bunch of stuff that sounded good, looked good on X-ray which was inadequate but they didn’t know that at the time. And that even the MRIs are inadequate and oh it leads through their entire line of questioning but the difference between me and the other clinicians in my field was I was actually listening to the patients. And I was being a history major, I was very verbal. And when I listened to the words they chose to describe their pain, I said these are not bone and joint words. These are nerve words. So I said, and I always wondered by the way after finishing residency in surgery and stuff. That these nerves are so close to the skin, how can you walk with full body weight on these structures and not injure these nerves, it’s impossible.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All right.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
But nobody was looking at it. Nobody. So the ultimate, oh.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All right, Diapulse.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
All right, Diapulse now?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So the Diapulse rep walks into your office, gives you 300 references.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Over.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Or at least a list?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
And instead of intimidating me, I thoroughly digested the papers because they covered a multitude of conditions. One technology curing, or helping to cure conditions from otitis media or middle ear infections that we have in all of our kids. Down to let’s say, oh what? The, oh a head injury. Or up to a head injury. Study from India. Curing these people. No drugs, nothing. So this is pretty powerful technology. We may not understand it but my job as a physician is to do no harm and use any harmless remedy that will heal my patients. So what I did that was innovative I guess is incorporate a combination of technologies. I used the PEMF to make my therapeutic injection which was already in use for 60 years by then. Well let’s see, at that point in the 80s would’ve been in use for 25 years I’d say. And well-discovered and well-founded by a brilliant physician in New York. So I combined, not cortisone injections ’cause they’re just the BAND-AID. I combined this therapeutic injection with the PEMF and oh my good. My cure rate jumped from 70% to 95%. I was doing, as a resident, I was training at the VA hospital at the time who helped me with collating data. Said to me, “Dr. Shandles, “do you realize how much less surgery you’re doing them?” And the truth was it was true. I had reduced my surgical load by over 90% and I was curing more people than I ever cured before. What’s wrong with this picture?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
That means you’re making less money.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Well theoretically but the truth is the public doesn’t understand, the surgeon doesn’t make a lot of money from the surgery. The surgical center for the fees they charge for the use of the room and the anesthesiologist who does, his charge. Each of them make four times what the surgeon makes, it’s pathetic. So my ideas, my job is to cure people and I’m just gonna go ahead and cure people and the truth is, my revenues went up. Because I didn’t have to waste time taking a day off to do surgery. I was seeing many more patients in the office and curing every one of them that walked in the door. It was a very enjoyable way to practice.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
I think that’s very unsatisfying, making everybody happy. That’s so incredible.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
I am.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Okay well hold that thought. So let’s, okay now you have this technology that has all these references and you said, “Okay, I’m gonna start using it.” So we’ll go into the rest of that story. What was the technology?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
All right, the technology was the only major device, the one recommended me by the graduate engineering student at Columbia University, my classmate, Diapulse.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Diapulse? D-I-A-P-U-L-S-E. Diapulse.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
So good. To me it’s the gold standard of PEMF. There is no equal in the world in my opinion.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Well we might have an argument about that but let’s live with your assertion okay.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Okay, I mean with my limited knowledge of the field okay?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Okay so the Diapulse.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yeah.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
It’s a phenomenal piece of equipment.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yeah.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So let’s go from there. You started using the Diapulse?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yes, and the patients were coming in with 50 to 70% relief of pain with just one treatment. Using the same technology I used before and the number of treatments went down to an average of one to three to get cured and maybe as high as one to five. But they were cured.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So they had to, at that time, they had to come into your office to get treatment.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Correct.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
‘Cause this is a big machine and it is very expensive. Has a great, big head on it right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yeah.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Has got a big arm.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Boy.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And you have to apply it directly to the spot that you are treating.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Only treat one zone at a time.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Right, all right so.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Come in.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
When you started using the Diapulse, did you use it by itself? Or did you still combine it with your injections?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Always, well when it came to the therapeutics, I’m referring to specifically. I was combining it and we know that it can be applied to the injected area three hours before or up to three hours after and have the same effect. So based on literature. So what I did was. I would do the injection first and then they would go, because it’s such a bulky, heavy machine. I had one room dedicated to the PEMF. They would go to that room and sit, read a magazine or something, take the Diapulse treatment and then leave.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
But the Diapulse treatment is a, how long does it take?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
15 minutes.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
One five? 15 minutes.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
One five. Now I do know from parameters, it could be as little as 10 minutes but we always went for the 15. And we know that beyond 15 was just yielding the lowy. Based on the technology.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All right so you, right off the get-go, you started using the Diapulse with injections or did you try Diapulse for awhile without anything else?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
No, no. Because I knew what the pathology was and I already have a therapeutic injection that had a 70% cure rate with no Diapulse. And I wasn’t going to, all I wanted to do was augment it so my cure rate would jump up to 100% if I could.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Okay, so let’s clarify that point. So you had already developed this injection technique.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yes.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And you told me about it. And it’s already different than what most doctors do. So you’ve said already local anesthetics or local steroids don’t do very much right? They don’t last, the benefit never lasts and they cause their own problems. So what was your injection? How did you discover this injection?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
I can’t take credit for the original discovery. Like most of the great inventions we’re dealing with, they were either developed in New York or California. I have no idea why it’s always those two places but at one of the medical colleges in New York City was a doctor, Marvin Steinberg. He was very, very bright in podiatric medicine because of his depth of study into the relationships between internal medicine and their presentation in the lower extremities. Very interesting man, very bright. He determined and I do not know how, I never. I don’t think he ever published. He just taught that if you take a mixture of vitamin B12 with a tiny, and I’m telling you tiny, almost inconsequential to most clinicians amount of long acting, soluble corticosteroid. Well he was using, actually I can’t really think you can get it anymore. But it was only two tenths of a cc of steroid but 90% of it was vitamin B12 and lastly a little bit lidocaine and market, whatever you tease lidocaine. So I figure, you got a formula that we know works. I’m not going to. I’m just going to use what he used ’cause all the students I’ve met in my travels who were using his formula were having tremendous success in their offices and I figured that’s my job, cure patients. So I used Steinberg’s formula and later on, reduced the corticosteroid to a tenth of cc because I realized I didn’t even need two tenths. So it was almost an insult but for electrochemical reasons there’s a good reason to use it based on what we know now but in any case, that lidocaine. So B12 is the main ingredient, that’s.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So you were still using a tiny amount of?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Corticosteroid.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Steroid.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
I was insecure about taking away what Steinberg discovered completely. I’m insecure but I have had cases where people were allergic to the corticosteroids and I just used the straight B12 and I can’t deny, they’re also cured. But I’ve used myself.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So why did you stop using the steroid altogether.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
I could, I could.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
But when? Or you’re still using it?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Never did, never did. I hate to let’s say, contaminate an already good system.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Okay.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
By inserting my own.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All right, so we are using a tiny amount of long-acting steroid and a fairly substantial amount of B12.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yes.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
But the B12 you’re using, which form of B12?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
I know. I’ve been asked this before and the truth is, always do the standard cyanocobalamin. I know there’s a lot of people arguing, that’s not all be. Well in my hands, cyanocobalamin’s got me up to a 99.9% cure rate. So truthfully it’s the.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
That’s what you stuck with.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Vitamin C or, Vitamin C produced by any manufacturer. I think it’s the same. The question is how do you get it absorbed? That’s the key.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All right. But before we go to that, how much cyanocobalamin were you using?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
For every site I would use 1.3 ccs.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Ccs which amounts to how many milligrams?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
1.2.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
How many milligrams?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
That would be 1000 milligrams per cc. So it’s a little over 1000 milligrams. A month’s supply.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All right, so your injections were directly to the nerve. So you didn’t inject into the pain area. You injected specifically. So tell us more about how you discovered where to inject.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Okay, I. Surgical residency did not, did do me well about one thing. It taught me the anatomy, even better than I may have known it before in three dimensions. So I knew exactly where the nerves ran when I was treating an area of the body. My challenge was to find out where the nerve is most affected. Where is the sweet spot? Where is the key to all the pain and I discovered that all pain narrowed down to a one quarter inch diameter when it came to nerve pain and that all this bone and joint pain wasn’t bone and joint pain. It was nerve damage and I was able to narrow it down. How did I do that? The only thing available to me at the time, I had to find an insprint that would not be injurious or create pain on its own. But solicit the actual or elicit if you will, the actual response from the nerve. And my first tool that was published was the number two lead pencil with the eraser. Worked very well but it’s kind of fragile. Doesn’t work when you go to end or sciatic or some other nerve that’s deeper, so to speak. So I have to get both. So later on we developed our own instrument but we started out with a number two pencil with an eraser and that was my tool for locating the center of pain. In other words by touch, not running energy, by touch. God forbid we should put our hands on a patient. I don’t know where that phobia came, I had nothing to do but it’s wrong.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All right, so let me clarify. Just so I understand as well. So what you did is you took a lead pencil and you used the eraser side of the lead pencil. I’m glad we clarified that ’cause people are gonna say, “Well you were jabbing the person with the lead pencil.”
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Sure that’s going to hurt.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Okay, you used the eraser side and you were basically in a sense, palpating, or you’re probing, pushing on the various spots around where the pain was to find this sweet spot.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Correct and it always narrowed down to one spot. And they would jump or they would react and I said, “That’s gotta be the spot.” I had no way to image it at the time. It was all by touch and patient response. So I marked it with the skin marker and later on that’s where the injection would go and the accuracy was formidable. It was amazing. Easy to repeat. Easy to teach. Easy to show. And as the pain subsided, the center of pain would move. So you have to take a few seconds each time to find the part of the nerve that you hadn’t reached yet.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Right.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
But that was it. So it’s a process, that’s why we so.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And that could take two to three injections.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yes.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
In order to get all the pain.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
That is absolutely correct.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Fantastic, okay. So that’s the part that you were doing before you got the Diapulse.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Correct.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
You already had to become skilled at doing that and you got a 75% improvement rate even then.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
70%.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Okay, I won’t.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Five percent.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
I’ll take back that five percent. All right, so now the Diapulse.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yes, miracle.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So you said 70% is not good enough. I want more, I want better.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
If I were a patient going into a doctor’s office, I want to hear them tell me, “If we do this procedure, “your success of recovery, complete recovery is 90%.” Or better. If they can’t say that, they’re not touching me. Because you should demand perfection. It’s your body, it’s your life. And we’re going to medical conferences and I’m hearing 70% and they’re happy and I’m laughing. So after reading all the papers and listening to my classmate who swore by this new technology, I started to incorporate 15-minute Diapulse after every injection case.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So you do your injection first and then you do the Diapulse right after?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Now sometimes just because of scheduling we would do it before 15 minutes. Because we knew the electrical charge were stored in the tissue for hours. So there wasn’t, we weren’t afraid we weren’t gonna have the same effect and that had already been established. So that was, it was great. So it was, the Diapulse was a workhorse boy. It got a lot of work in my office.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So you never let up. After that it was only ever combine the two.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Always, absolutely.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All right, so why do you think the Diapulse made such a big difference?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Peculiarly, of all the reagents known to medical science, a study was done in New York. Again, using B12 as the reagent to see how it would be absorbed with and without the Diapulse specifically. This was coincidental, I knew nothing about this study. I read it later. Well they showed that we inject B12 and we assume, I love that word. I’m gonna use that a lot in future lectures like everything we were taught. That we assumed it’s being absorbed into the bloodstream and into the body. Well they found out in New York, it wasn’t. It was sitting in the tissue using radioactive tag B12 and the gamma camera. They could trace the B12. It would sit in there unabsorbed days, weeks, maybe longer. And so where was the therapeutic value? As soon as they applied the Diapulse equipment, the B12 was taken up by the tissue 100% in seconds. Seconds. What’s wrong with this picture?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Now that’s neural tissue or regular tissue? What was the study?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Any, it was regular tissue, correct. They were using, like you would do a B12 injection to a deltoid or you know, a thigh muscle or something.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Right.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yeah.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So even from a regular tissue perspective, it was being absorbed much more rapidly and completely.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
And conclusively, every time if used the Diapulse.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All right so you said, well if it does it for regular soft tissue, what about a nerve?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Could not, have. Yeah do a little translate, I figured translation would be 100% and of course it was. And my data proves that.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All right, so then you started with one or two or five or 10 people. And then you went crazy.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
I wanted to cure these folks. I mean I thought if I was the patient, I’d like that consideration. So wanna cure ’em.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All right, so then you actually wrote a paper based on your experience with how many people? Using this.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
317.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
This combination of approach.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
317, followed for 10 years. Because I didn’t want to publish before I knew that it was actually permanent and the paper, the data was collated by U.S. Army research physicians along with my resident at the hospital. And we had a cure rate of almost 95% without surgery. The other four point something percent went to surgery and were cured that way. But the truth is 95% were cured without surgery by combining the injection and the Diapulse.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Now this was for neuroma right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Actually, put nerve damage. Because you made a very good point. Up to that point, the only kind of nerve damage we were taught in school had to be the neuroma of the metatarsal areas of the ball of the foot and we were told about tarsal tunnel syndrome. Much like carpal tunnel in the wrist. Unfortunately, to the Dispulse and my injection, they don’t care where the nerve is. They cure it all. We cured tarsal tunnel with it. We cured neuromas with it. And now I can image it and you see them just dissolve away. It’s the most amazing thing, beautiful thing.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
The neuroma dissolves away?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Completely dissolves away. You have a normal image once it’s all done.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Well what’s the cause of a neuroma?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
That involves the other cure that was developed that is non-PEMF. We’ll get to that. The cause of the neuromas, this study did show that all this nerve damage. Neuroma, tarsal tunnel syndrome, all of this stuff. Feet, ankle and legs is due to abnormal foot structure which we’ve known about since 1960 from the work of Merton Root at the California College of Podiatric Medicine and the University of California College of Medicine at San Francisco where they did the anatomic studies and it’s, it’s cookbook. They tell you, they show you that the world’s broken up to three foot structures. You’re born with one of two abnormal structures and only 20% of people are born with normal feet. And who are my patients? The 80% that were born with abnormal foot structure which means it’s an inherited factor for which they developed a cure in 1960 which was a simple, custom-made insert that went into the shoes for both sports and regular day to day activity with a durability, because of the change in fabricated materials available now they last 10 years or more.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All you’re doing is you’re, with the orthotic, you’re basically just maintaining the natural angles of the arches of the foot.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
That is correct. And true. Scientifically, yes. It is not an easy subject to understand. It’s called biomechanics and you have to be able to envision how the body moves in three dimensions. And that apparently a study was done I was later told and only about 25% of physicians have that capability. It’s not easy. But I spent 400 hours in training under the people that wrote the textbooks in California on my own dime because I wanted to, I knew it was cured and I wanted to master it and that’s. So that’s the other part of my practice is biomechanics.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All right so you did the biomechanics. Everybody gets biomechanics anyway. You took care of the pain problem or immediate need right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
And even better for their back and there it is, but it worked. It all works.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Okay well, podiatrists are supposed to limit what they do right? By the boards, their regulations and so on. So you’re limited in your practice to the foot, the ankle and the leg and that’s the leg from below the knee right? Not above the knee.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Correct, some conditions of the knee we’re actually allowed to treat when they’re related to the foot which we’ve found at the University of Pennsylvania Sport Medicine Center is quite considerable. But still you’re right, I’m not doing a meniscectomy and that we’re not working on internal parts of the knee. Correct.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All right, well being the innovator and renegade that you are you went astray.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Little bit.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So tell us about what you strayed into.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Okay, oh my goodness. Well I figured if it works on nerves in the lower extremity, it would work on nerves in the upper extremity and I was working in the office of a orthopedic surgeon and his license was bigger. So what happened was, I was able to continue my research on other kinds of cases and they truthfully, it’s a breeze to cure anything above the waist man I’m gonna tell you. They don’t put body weight on their hands. So that could explain why. I was curing carpal tunnel, maybe one treatment. COPS too, I was curing so-called tennis elbow. Oh is that a misdiagnosed condition? Maybe one or two treatments. There was a guy with neck pain that was two years post rear end collision. Scheduled for surgical intervention and he was a great subject. That took just one injection to cure and I have a five-year followup, five years is some kind of standard. But he’s still, he couldn’t believe. He walked out of the office with no pain, he couldn’t believe it. And I also found out with my research and using good imaging system that all this crazy back pain that we’re all worried about today. They base their surgery on their MRI and the CT scan and the X-ray but so what do you do? You assume that the pain is coming from what the studies are showing. Wrong. If you use the touch principle and an instrument that can work on the back and the other areas, you find out the pain’s actually coming from a peripheral subcutaneous nerve that had nothing to do with the imaging that we’re showing. So is it all right to have something wrong on an X-ray and then I have to be treated? Of course, see this is the problem. Our society has become one of treating tests, not people.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All right.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
We gotta get back to treating people. This is what bothers me.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So in that orthopedic office, you were still doing the same treatment. You find the nerve.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Absolutely.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Everything they got, the Diapulse and the injection. Until I was able to replace the Diapulse.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Why did you replace the Diapulse?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
There were two problems with the Diapulse other than the bulkiness. The problem was I realized, when I’m lecturing and I’m trying to present this around the world. If I’ve got a 200-pound machine on castors that looks like it came out of the early days of radio and I’m trying to impress the younger minds that are used to seeing sleek machines, Space Age-type technology and I said, “We’ve just gotta make a solid state version of this thing.” So that’s what I’m at the Ivivi.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So that’s Ivivi. I-V-I-V-I.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
IVI.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Okay so the Ivivi has the same signal. So the signal in the Diapulse, so let’s explain that signal a little bit. So the Diapulse signal is 20, 21 point hertz, what is it?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
27.12 megahertz.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Great. 27.12 megahertz, that’s the carrier signal.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Correct.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And then that carrier signal is then pulsed at a lower rate. And that varies from equipment to equipment and study to study. But it can be upwards of 300 to 600 cycles per second or pulses per second right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Correct.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So the Ivivi came along. You had Diapulse people selling you Ivivi machines instead.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yeah which shocked me but I’m looking at this thing and said, “Now this could go. “The audience is gonna want to see this.” If it worked. Now I’m a purist. I’m OCD, being a surgeon before being a clinician like I have been. So you gotta put things back the right way. Well my idea was I’ve gotta see if this works and I said the, I mean I know this is new technology. I know it’s supposed to replace the Diapulse in your eyes but I want to see the clinical results and I was shocked. Not only did I get the 95% cure rate. When we actually tabulated the results at the end of a year, our cure rate had jumped to 99.9%.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So there’s something different in the, something different in the signal. Same 15-minute treatment cycle right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Correct, correct.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Now the Diapulse, the Ivivi, the Diapulse is a big machine on a cabinet on castors that you have to roll around. Right? The Ivivi.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Did you see these?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Your Ivivi machine was the Roma right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
That I’m still using today, correct.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
What does that look like?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
That’s about, what? The body of the machine is so lightweight, it’s a blue color, about maybe a foot in diameter. Maybe two, two and a half inches thick. That has three external male couplings for using three separate electrodes. So instead of being relegated to only one treatment head, I had three heads I could use simultaneously with eight inches of penetration and eight inches of width in signal.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Right.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
So if I was even close to where my mark was, this thing was going to work. As far as the absorption and penetration and so forth. Well my study showed that it worked actually as well or better. So I said, “This thing I could sell.” This I’ve given a lecture about and say, “Hey look, this is the newer version “of the old technology and is just as efficacious in cure “as was the old.” So I have no reason to go backwards, I will go forward with the solid state circuitry.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
If you could share, what was the price of the Roma?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
The Roma at the time was marketed at $15,000.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Right.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
The Diapulse, when I got it was $10,000.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Okay.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
At that time. By taking my Diapulse in trade prospectively with the proviso of well, if it doesn’t work we will give you back your Diapulse machine. We respect your work that much. So they discounted 10,000 off of the Ivivi at the time.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Okay, okay.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
So they sold it to me for five. And I said, “Well that sounds like a fair deal. “If it works, I’ll get a couple of them. “I’ll get more than one.” And as the story goes it did and I tried to acquire as many as I could over time but as you know.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Now the Roma, there were several other Ivivi models right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Apparently, I was not aware of them at the time. But I found out later from looking on eBay as some of these things were being sold. It was interesting.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Well there was the Roma. There was the Torino.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yes that is, that’s interesting. That’s true. That was the word they used for the original, disposable version of Ivivi.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Right.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yes.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Well what’s happened with the company, what’s happened with Ivivi?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Well even though in 1990 I met with their chief scientific officer, Adam at Ivivi and I explained to her that what she had in the Roma was so incredible that they need to really market it and in 1990, of course my article wasn’t published yet but I had clinical results that would be useful for them in marketing that would be helpful. And they didn’t believe, apparently they didn’t believe enough in the Roma that they actually discontinued manufacturing it so they could focus on the Torino and its later heirs in order to deal with the disposable economics of medicine and sell more equipment over and over and over again.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So yeah. So I know that the, your machine, the Roma, was also used a lot. Was marketed a lot for nursing homes for wound management or skin management.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Which is the way Diapulse was going but it was awfully bulky to have. But the Ivivi was portable and each had a clip so it could hook onto the back of a chair and you could treat multiple patients in either direction with their coils.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Yeah.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
So it could be very practical from that standpoint.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So then so the Roma, and you were lucky enough to have the older machines available.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yes.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And now you said that the technology shifted to disposables right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Correct.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And they would cost how much?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Torinos, at the time the Torino came out to a doctor it would be $180. Now.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
The doctor?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Today it’s created a new generation of the same exact equipment, maybe a little bit better material and just about doubled the price on it.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Okay. And you said that you’ve found that that worked just as well?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Correct, technically speaking. If you were let’s say, reticent about investing thousands into PEMF devices, you could get one of those and use it in your practice if you were a doctor or a doctor could prescribe it for a patient and could be used for several months at a much lesser cost and if it worked, then you’d have your evidence that it would work.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All right, so unfortunately what happened to Ivivi?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Out of business as far as I know. Out of business.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Yeah.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Rooting for them yeah.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
They stopped business. They did a lot of studies. A friend of mine, a colleague of mine was actually one of their researchers.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Wow.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Dr. Arthur Pilla.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Oh yeah, I remember him.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
You remember him?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yes, yes. He was in the literature. I had, God. His name was bandied about a lot, I yes.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Yeah he did a lot of the basic science research on the signal.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Interesting.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So Ivivi went belly-up or basically stopped production. They were actually reformulated into another company which is now called SofPulse and the SofPulse, one of the original SofPulses was actually being used in the nursing homes.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Ah.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So the SofPulse has gone through some of the same sort of rejiggering if you will, of the corporation of the company and they’re really not doing almost anything. They’re really not doing any marketing. You don’t hear any salespeople coming by right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
No, not at all.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
No.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Not at all.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And one of the principals of the Ivivi ended up selling, developing another company. Called the Assisi. So the Assisi like Francis of Assisi.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yeah.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Right so the Assisi is a pet device. It’s marketed as a pet machine.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
That’s what I saw on eBay. That’s what I saw on eBay.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Now the coil is smaller because it’s really for smaller animals.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yes.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
What would, I don’t know is whether the intensity, or the intensity in this case is not just the peak PEMF intensity which we talk about in terms of Gauss or milli Tesla. You often talk about wattage. So the wattage of the Diapulse was pretty high because it was plugged into the wall right? It used current.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yeah that’s correct.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
To power it and the Ivivi, the new Ivivi, the SofPulse and the Assisi are powered by batteries.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Interesting.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
They’re small, little batteries.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yeah.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And their model as you said, had switched over from a professional model to a disposable model. So now you have, you buy this ring and it’s sealed and you use it for something like seventy minutes of total treatment time. 70 treatments, I’m sorry. 50 to 70 treatments and then the battery basically dies. Then you have to replace it. It costs like 300 plus dollars as well.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Like spare parts.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So that’s the legacy of that technology. So people are interested in trying this technology could try the Assisi. Although they do ask you for the name of your veterinarian.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Oh my gosh.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So right now we, I think we’re kind of in a hiatus unfortunately with this technology which is I think, a tremendous technology. So people can still buy the loop coil from SofPulse. So it’s S-O-F-P-U-L-S-E.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Correct.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yes.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And it’s still available although the company again has shrunk down substantially with their investments. They spent a lot of money and have not been able to really grow the company and establish a good product. So there’s a gap and there’s an opportunity here for us to do a lot more with this because as you said, this is not just a podiatric device. This is not just a nerve device.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Oh no.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Right? This technology has been shown to heal wounds. Right, as you said brain treatment. Sprained ankles, so swollen, sprained ankles.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
It’s fantastic against the viva, yes. It’s true.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And that’s one of the, actually it is FDA approved. So the SofPulse does require a prescription. The FDA has classified it as a Schedule 2, not drug but device which means that it requires a prescription which is unfortunate. The Assisi doesn’t but I think that the Assisi is probably weaker. I’m sure that it’s weaker than the SofPulse.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Interesting.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So because, it is FDA approved for pain, post-operative pain and for edema. Which is why you were getting the kinds of results you were getting with what you were doing as well. Now do you know clinicians, other clinicians, non-podiatric clinicians? Well let’s talk about podiatric clinicians. Obviously if people want to come to Tampa, you’re still seeing patients.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yes.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Right, so give us your website please.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Oh yes, it’s drishandles.com.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So Shandles, spell Shandles.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Drishandles.com.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
S-H-A-N-D-L-E-S, drishandles.com. All right now here.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
With the initial I.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Do you know other clinicians, other doctors, orthopedic doctors who are using this signal?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Oh, absolutely not.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
No.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
This is the, this is the problem. Which is something I think you talked to me about and I’ve lectured to the Orthopedics Department at Tampa General Hospital on this 20 years ago. No one comprehends the fact that one machine has the latitude to cure or help cure so many different deformities. They just don’t understand because they’re not teaching this in the medical schools. They’re not, in fact my discoveries are converse to what I was taught where the damage really was. I was taught to shoot the X-rays, I was taught. There’s only one imaging system by the way I’m down to and that’s, the only one that shows the damage all the time and that’s ultrasound. One of the few they don’t train us on. I had to take my own training, get my own training. Get certified and applied a course up again, in New York interestingly by one of the medical colleges up there. And then when I left the courses, it was, is that all there is? And he said, “Yeah, now you gotta do them.” And it’s true. Well once you’ve done hundreds, tens of thousands like I have, you become very proficient with it. And you know how to seek. I mean, I’m actually doing, I’m creating now the first atlas for ultrasound in the foot, ankle and leg ever published. Because there are no images. There’s nothing standard for these people. Neuromas, yeah. But what I’ve seen? Tarsal tunnel and the cysts, the growths. Oh it’s amazing, just amazing.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Now not everybody has access to Dr. Shandles. Not everybody has a podiatric pain problem. So in the absence of people in the community who are able to do this. What would you say about using this signal directly on a pain area itself without using the injection?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
I mentioned to you and as a result of this technology I’ve come to believe something that I think you believe. And that is that everything we need to heal ourselves is already in our body. The issue is how do you get it to work? And I believe this signal does that. So yes, it augments what I’m doing but let’s say as you say, you just had pain or swelling or something like that that was not life threatening, why not use it? Why not try? The beautiful part, it can do no harm. But if it works, what have you found? A cure without drugs and without dangerous treatments.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Now unfortunately, looking at the science myself on the Ivivi. Well it’s not so much the Ivivi but the science on the Diapulse and that particular signal, 27.12 hertz. You know, I asked you at the beginning, what’s special about this 27.12 hertz? And you said it’s the FCC.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
They created that, as you say, carrier signal pardon me. That was medically approved for all medical devices. We’re allowed to broadcast on that frequency. Isn’t that interesting? I mean we’re reveling.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
That’s not to say that there may not be other megahertz signals or other signals.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Absolutely.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And of course, my experience with PEMFs is most PEMFs will help with pain and where I found that the issue is, a lot of the time, the issue is the depth of the pain problem and having the right magnetic field intensity. Now it’s possible that you don’t need as much intensity with this megahertz signal than you do with other PEMF signals.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Interesting.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
But I have never seen studies comparing other PEMFs to the Diapulse signal.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
True, it’s true.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Right, so we don’t know what the comparison might be. Now when you treated superficial issues like the foot, the ankle and I consider them relatively superficial compared to the liver or the lungs or the brain.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Would you like an interesting liver story?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
By all means, please.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
This is one medical miracle that I have documented, is documented and the punchline I may leave out but the truth is I was treating a patient referred to me that at the time I did not know was at the top of the liver transplant list from Lakeland, Florida. In one of my segments, when I have a satellite office, it was in Brandon. So they drove from Lakeland to Brandon. He was referred to me by a liver specialist and he was being tested regularly for his liver levels because they really want to try to keep him out of the deathbed but the point is, he was referred to me for a metatarsal fracture on one of his feet. So I set it, I did what I was supposed to do and of course I had the old Diapulse machine at the time. So this for you might be of interest. So I treated his foot but Diapulse always told you, “Treat the liver at the same time “because the liver can act as a storage battery.” It will bind the electron, charges the negative electrical charges just like a battery would and when the heart beats of course, the red core parcels go through there and we do there and I guess Guyton must have had this because I knew this. That each red core parcel had a capacity to carry two extra electrons. So they felt that you create, you can create the therapeutic battery circuit by charging the liver and then the charge will be dropped off. Where, where the positive charges were which is any site of injury of disease. So I did that that day. One treatment, 15 minutes. With the liver and foot. The liver specialist calls me from Lakeland one week later. He said, “What’d you do?” I said, “I did his fracture and I put the Diapulse here.” The man no longer has liver disease. He is totally healthy. What did you do? So he made me send him copy of the 300 published papers on this technology. He goes through them for two to three weeks. He calls me back, “I don’t understand it. “I don’t know how this did it.” But I know the punchline is probably a little humiliating to him but the point is, no he didn’t want a machine and no he didn’t want me to cure his patients sadly. But there you go, that’s the punchline. But the point is, it cured this one man, why? Because the liver already had the capacity to heal itself but it was inspired to do this by a 1934 discovery. I guess we don’t really need a better mousetrap when we already have one. That’s what I’m seeing.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Well I think liver disease and you’re absolutely correct. I think liver disease is, the liver is very, most regenerative organ in the body right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yes, absolutely.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So you give it a fighting chance and amazing things happen.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
One treatment?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Have you done any more livers beyond that?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Oh, never. Never and nobody’s came in from that company either. It’s, and now the public isn’t surprised when I talk to the public about some of this stuff. Because they understand the profit motive. They understand that everybody needs to eat. But that doesn’t mean they like it but they understand it. That doesn’t mean they’re happy about it and as a doctor I’m not happy about it because I think that we’re not doing our job.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Well I know that one of the reasons that PEMFs are not more widely accepted in general, certainly in the medical community and I’ve talked to several orthopedics doctors.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Highly benefit, yeah.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And also pain management specialists and they think it’s a threat to their business.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Oh I absolutely agree. I absolutely agree. As sad as it may be. So the public doesn’t benefit or the public’s being harmed by the lack of the use of the technology. That upsets me.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Well, and this is one of the reasons for this summit as well. Is to educate people in general who are not gonna hear it from their doctors so that they can make their own decisions and fortunately the technology is available without a prescription most of the time. All right, and so we don’t have to bypass that hurdle of requiring a prescription. Because if you go to a doctor and if you ask for an Assisi or an Ivivi or a SofPulse, the doctor’s gonna say, “What are you talking about?”
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
True.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Right, generally speaking they’re not going to. And that’s probably one of the reasons these companies have failed. Because one of their big marketing campaigns, ’cause some of the studies were done on this. Was post-operative pain and swelling following reconstructive plastic surgery procedures. Primarily on the breasts. So women have reconstructive surgery to their breasts. If they do magnetic field therapy after the surgery, they recover much better, much faster and I’ve done the study too with swelling. People that have reconstructive procedures to their faces.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Wonderful.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So if you have bruising in your face after a reconstruction or after plastic surgery to your face, PEMF therapy around the face will take away the swelling and the bruising very quickly. Within a day or two, it’s your back to normal. You don’t have to hide right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yeah true, that’s right.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
For a few weeks. But we’re told that you shouldn’t be using the Diapulse around the eyes. Have you had any experience that way?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Well, I did. It’s funny because every night before I go to bed I use the Ivivi three coils all over my body at sites that I think are, especially with age. Let’s say, fragile. And one of them is, I wear it as a crown on my head which is well within the eight-inch range of the field and it’s over my eyes and my vision’s never been better. I don’t know. This is very bizarre. I think this is the type of energy field that actually maintains the health of tissue. If it’s not there, it corrects it because we’re not treating the body as an electrical factory which it is. And that’s because our physiology courses don’t teach that the main conductor of electricity must be, not the nervous system. But the blood vascular system. And this was discovered by a very brilliant man, doctor in Sweden in the 80s and he was shut down too. Even though he was very world renowned. They wouldn’t publish his work but for my technology to work the way it’s working, he had to be right. That we’re conducting electricity through bones and muscles that and blood, and blood vessels through ionic exchange. We’re just loaded with minerals and they are great electrical conductors. We don’t need a wire, it’s really interesting.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
I totally agree with you. That the body is basically a battery inside skin. Right, the cover of the battery is the skin.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
That’s a good image, I like it.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All right, so I think one of the reasons that they talked about the eyes as a contraindication for the Diapulse was largely because at that time, the Diapulse was considered short wave diathermy.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Oh, okay.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And it was considered thermal. So therefore it could, the risk is it would create thermal damage to the eye, cloud the lens and so on. Well the FDA has now reclassified the Diapulse and the 27.12 megahertz signals as athermic.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Beautiful.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
They don’t create heating. They don’t produce.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Thank you.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
They don’t have their effects through the heating action just like true diathermy does. So it’s not really considered diathermy anymore.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
And I’m glad, because we have to get away from thinking of it as physical therapy. It’s not, a whole nother field. It’s something that deserves its own code. It’s electrical medicine, call it what you will. But it, nobody’s giving it the respect and identification that it requires. And that’s one of the reasons more doctors aren’t. If they knew that there was revenue that could be gained by curing their patients, maybe they would switch.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Well again that’s one of the reasons we, drtalks.com exists as well is to educate people that they have access to this technology on their own, without having to rely on a doctor for a referral or even for guidance to a great extent and that’s another reason why I wrote the book, “Supercharge Your Health with PEMF Therapy”. Right, because now we have. We have some guidance on how to use it properly.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
True, it’s true. That is true.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Dr. Shandles, I can’t tell you how much I appreciated a chance to chat with you and get more of your history and what you’ve been able to accomplish and at 95% cure rate for pain. I wish we could all experience that and so people, I’m sure people will be going to your website. Do you have any other references or any other information you could provide people?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
I think the original article on the website and all the references and so forth.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
It’s on your website right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
It’s in that, yeah. Actually yes, the website Purveyor was able to download the entire article with all the illustrations, references and so forth which I love because then you can understand and visually appreciate the magnitude of what we’re doing and how simplistic it actually is if you think about it. But it works better than all the garbage I was taught. It’s sad. But by the way, after publishing this work in 2002, with the highest published cure rate and the longest followup with anyone on heel pain in the world.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Right.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Do you think they’re teaching this anywhere? Do you think? That, I laugh at it. It’s so laughable, it’s sad.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
No, podiatrists because again, like most other doctors. Many podiatrists like their surgery. The old aphorism, to cut is to cure right?
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Oh God help us. Well that’s heavy. What I realized that I was doing all this surgery but I wasn’t curing anybody. I was treating a symptom. That’s when I, when I.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Had you causing more problems.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Yeah, potentially, absolutely. Nobody ever talks about the significance of all the complications that could occur. Forget it, it’s crazy.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Well again, thank you very much for taking the time to, to teach us what you took so many years to learn.
Ira D. Shandles, D.P.M., F.A.S.P.S., F.A.C.P.M.
Thank you, my pleasure.
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