Making the Connection – Looking at Unconventional Patterns to Solve Autoimmune Disorders

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Thanks so much for having me on, I’m blessed to be busy, but it’s always nice to share information to other clinicians or people that can use these pearls to help advance their health. So, thank you.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Great. And yeah, just a little bit. So, she’s going to talk about unlocking the secrets to reversing auto-immunity. So, Elizabeth is a board certified physician assistant. She’s a graduate of the University of Florida where she received her Bachelor of Science and Master’s of Science degrees. Is a diplomat of the American Academy of Anti-aging Medicine. Since beginning her career in internal medicine in 1999, she has been known for helping patients achieve wellness and longevity goals by blending complimentary and traditional medicine. And she’s really ahead of the curve, and I really just love her passion, every time I talk to her, she’s found a new treatment, a new modality, and just… you know, and she doesn’t look like it, is very, I guess this is a politically incorrect, very good looking woman. 

She’s a geek, she’s a knowledge geek! But it’s, it’s great. And just her passion to help people is just inspiring. And while earning your undergraduate degree in nutrition science in 1995, she worked as a nutritionist and conducted research with a woman’s health initiative, interesting, on folic acid to prevent birth defects in infants. After working in nutrition for several years, she returned to UF and earned her Master’s as a physician assistant studies from the College of Medicine in 1999. Returning home to Palm beach, where everyone’s flocking to right now, she practiced internal medicine and integrative medical practice, and co-hosted a radio show for three years. 

I did not know that. Her nutrition background allows her to blend natural therapies, such as medical grade nutraceuticals and diet changes with allopathic medicine. And she’s got that great ability to combine, you know, integrative, natural, but is not afraid to use medications, very evidence-based. And I really… and it’s kind of the way we practice and just love talking to her and going back and forth on what’s new and running cases by each other. And because of her background in holistic medicine, anti-aging, she was the first physician assistant to join the exclusive MD VIP Medical Program. Is that the telemedicine?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

No, that was the MD VIP concierge

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Oh, that’s where they send the toughest patients from everywhere to see the best doctors, that’s awesome. For several years she joined a large family practice and assisted in developing a wellness center. During that time she completed a fellowship, for the American Academy of Anti-aging and Regenerative Medicine. She also completed a peptide certification fellowship through A4M, and she created individual detoxification programs for environmental toxins, heavy metals, bowel dysbiosis, food sensitivities, and weight loss, just really the whole, whole gambit, you know. Bring it on, she’ll treat it. Her practice focuses on treating conditions such as subclinical thyroid disease, and that is, you know, near and dear to my heart, autoimmune diseases, which we’re going to talk to you about today, chronic fatigue, irritable bowel, acne, cardiac disease, and helping patients overcome menopause and andropause with use of bioidentical hormone replacement therapy, and really perform state-of-the-art vitamin and metabolic testing. So, really she’s on the cutting edge of so many things, and we could do a whole summit with just her doing….

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Oh, thank you.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

So, it’s awesome. I’m a big fan. And I know she just gets great outcomes. I hear from patients. And again, thank you for being on the summit.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Well, thank you for having me. You make me sound like a genius, so I really love you even more.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And she’s very humble too. And so, we’re talking about autoimmunity, is there… what basically autoimmune conditions are you talking about everything? Or what do peptides help one thing, but not another or…?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

I see so much Hashimoto’s in my practice. You know, there’s a correlation with mold. So, living in Florida, everything with all those hurricanes, there’s a lot of water intrusion. So, we do have a lot of mold down here. So, I have to, I don’t know, I want to say more than half of my patients seem to have Hashimoto’s and I don’t know if I just have a reputation in the area, but every time I’m checking for antibodies, I’m seeing it. And they may not be full-blown, but they certainly have an autoimmune thyroid issue.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And the endocrinologist, you know, they argue if you go to their conferences, I used to go all the time, but now I just couldn’t take it. They’re so behind, you know. It’s kind of like, I don’t want to bash doctors, but it’s the joke. How do you hide something from an endocrinologist? Put it in their journal. But, that’s bad, maybe we’ll edit that out. But they won’t even check because they don’t think you can do anything about it. And also, they found that one, is that when you have antibodies to your thyroid, that you often have antibodies to your pituitary, to your mitochondria. And so, it’s very unique. You don’t see it in Graves, which is interesting, but you’ll see it in Hashimoto’s. So, a lot of doctors, the endocrinologists, they won’t treat just if you have antibodies because your TSH is fine, but their TSH is artificially lower because of the Hashimoto’s. And they also have antibodies to the deiodinase type two, which converts T4 to T3 in the pituitary. Now the antibody you think would lower it, but it stimulates the T4 T3 conversion in the pituitary. So, they have lower TSH than a normal person would. And they found that getting rid of the antibodies actually makes people feel better than fixing their thyroid levels.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Right. And the endocrinologists don’t even check the antibody levels. They would just refer everyone out if there’s a thyroid issue, but no one took the time. It’s a covered test. It’s an inexpensive test. I think antibodies are maybe like $15 a test. It’s not expensive, but it’s the only way we really know if there’s something going on, because most of the population, let’s face it, they’re having problems with obesity. And this is a big piece of the puzzle. So, you know, with functional medicine, we are doing the deeper tests and we’re saying, okay, well, why do you have these antibodies? And what I love about peptides, you can absolutely reduce the antibodies and get rid of them a hundred percent with them, especially love the Thymosin Alpha for that and the BPC, and of course TP4. So, those are my three favorite, but the Hashimoto’s, there’s so many environmental factors that I think are overlooked.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Totally. And interesting study on obese children. The thing is with obese children, if they’re obese as children, they’re likelihood of being obese adults is so high. But the percentage of obese children with Hashimoto’s is huge, but they may not even have antibodies. They looked at basically doing ultrasounds and biopsies and found like 80% of obese children had inflammation of the thyroid.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Wow. 80%.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

That’s pretty impressive.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

So, they’re all low thyroid, but they… oh, just eat better, you know, and then they go on this strict diet and that lowers their thyroid even more, the body senses that starvation.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah, they call it Persistent Organic Pollutants and they can’t get…

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, toxins, pesticides. And one study actually found that a high incidence, they just biopsied people with just fatigue even, biopsied the thyroid, huge percent had active HHV-6 in the thyroid, but not in the rest of the body. And you can also see that with parvo. And so, you know, the thyroid’s dysfunctional, and then they also get the secondary and tertiary. So, the TSH is low, which the standard tests miss almost a hundred percent of the time, you know. What do doctors go by, the standard test. So, do you do any, like how do you diagnose… well, Hashimoto’s you look at the antibodies and you ultrasound a lot of people, and what base do you use, labs combination with symptoms? What else do you, what do you do?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Mainly labs and symptoms. And I see it all the time, maybe I’m missing a few, you know, with not doing like… can you even check the antibodies in the pituitary?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

No, no. There’s… yeah, you can only do it in research. But we are coming out with, we’ve been working on this assay for 15 years and we’ve gotten like 80% along the way, and then something happens like the lab at first got washed out in Katrina, another one, they got to a point they couldn’t do it, but so we finally partnered with like a big company, which, I said we got to get this done. But we’ll be able to show who has this central hypothyroidism. But yeah, it’s so common and we also do, you know, people’s basal metabolic rate, which is low in so many people, and Thyroflex, looking at people’s ankle reflex and that. And, you know, and that’s thing, you know, the British Medical Journal showed that a knowledgeable doctor looking at someone’s ankle reflex. So, with the normal reflex, it goes… but the lower the fibroid, the slower the relaxation phase. So, it goes…. So, just a doctor hitting the ankle reflex and looking at it was more accurate than the blood tests correlated with symptoms better.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

We don’t really do reflexes anymore. You know, I really do….

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

No one does physical exam anymore.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

No, no. And at the consultation it takes me an hour just to get through their medical history half the time. You know, honestly. It’s definitely an epidemic here and you probably see it a lot in California, I would assume.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, I think it’s a problem everywhere, and autoimmune just even in general and just, you know, this immune dysfunction that we see where you see the imbalance. Which I think is where, you know, the peptides are so good, there’s a lot of good immune modulators and, you know, LDN doesn’t work for everyone, nothing works for everyone, but you know, safe, you know, ozone, IVIG is great, but you know…

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Even diet, you know. So, I’ll take everyone off gluten and dairy when I first meet them. Well, gluten, dairy, eggs, soy, and corn. And if they can’t afford the peptides and they can’t afford a lot of supplements, I’ll just do that. And then make them sweat, you know, get an infrared sauna or just go outside, do some hot yoga. They’ll come back, those antibodies will be down, you know, 20, 30 points. So, I’m happy with that, especially when the endocrinologist says, “Oh, you can’t do that. There’s nothing you can do.” Absolutely. So, diet is definitely imperative. And I think the diet also, well, I know it does, it makes the peptides work better. So, when you have less inflammation in your body, the signaling can improve.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Absolutely, yeah. Because you’re just constantly stimulating that abnormal immunity. So, you’re just pumping out, you know, basically more antibodies and mineral deficiencies, even just giving selenium, one study showed reduction 40% by giving selenium.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Wow, isn’t that amazing. And then magnesium, everyone’s low in magnesium, that can cause different reactions in the body. People don’t realize that all your athletes, like you see a lot of athletes, right. They’re all low in chromium, calcium, potassium. So, everyone comes in, they get like five basic nutrients, like a really good multivitamin mineral, essential fatty acids, B vitamins, probiotics, and vitamin D… everyone’s low on D.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And no one’s testing that stuff. And you think these athletes are so healthy, and I know you treat a lot of athletes, like, you know, high caliber athletes. And they’ll say, you know, they’re not that healthy. Especially the ones like, do you see like over-training syndromes?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

They’re really deprived.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Or if you check their, you know, telomeres or other ways of checking cellular health, you think they’re so healthy, they’re like older than their real age. You know, I think from all the oxidation and that. And I’ve seen so many people, the weekend warriors are just so dedicated, just boom, they crash and can’t get out of bed, you know?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Right. Well, a lot of physicians are like that. A lot of our friends, I think it probably happened to us too.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

That’s how most people get into this, is that…. now, you had…

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

As a kid, so I just thought I was born that way. I was always tired. And I was just tired, overweight, asthmatic. Just my brain, I remember like thinking, my gosh, I can’t even think straight, like pushing a thought through Jello, you know, just as a kid. And so, that’s what got me into nutrition. And I remember just going to different doctors at University of Florida, I was probably 18 at the time, saying, you know, I just don’t feel right. I don’t think I should feel this way. And it was, “Oh, you just have allergies.”

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, you’re just…

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Right. So, I actually saw, do you know Dr. Dooley, Bruce Dooley?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I sounds familiar.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah, he was a big chelation guy in like the nineties. I saw him. He said I had candida, you know, I probably did. Put me on a Candida diet. Well, that definitely changed my brain. Like just cleared up that brain fog. And I thought, gee, if I can just do this with Candida and diet, if I took an actual vitamin, maybe it would make a difference. So, you know, I, early on, I think I started checking my blood. My twenties found out my thyroid was bad. And my adrenals were, I already had like a DHEA of 50 at age 25, you know, so I was already burned out just getting out of school. So, I think if it happened to me, like how many other people around are we seeing…

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Oh, we’re told it’s normal, everyone’s tired, you know. And do you use genetics at all?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Sorry?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Do you use genetic testing at all?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Oh, you know, I was doing it. I liked it too. The intellects DNA, I really was impressed with that one, you know. At first I was using 23andMe, because you could integrate that platform with a lot of free things on the web. But there was a lot of controversy still about the snips. Like just because you have a snip doesn’t mean it’s being expressed, right.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. I mean, and really that is the genetics are your potential and it’s really probably 20% of what, you know, you can work on. If you get identical twins, one gets diabetes and heart disease and the other one doesn’t, they have same genes. It’s basically acting on them. And it’s interesting, I just went through a genetic test with Dr. Miller, with my girlfriend who just developed basically dermatographia. So, mass cell. And she had some Lyme and stuff and all the things that you think you would give, he’s like, no, that’ll probably make it worse. And they did.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Dr. Miller is a genius.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And like glutathione’s, probably is going to backfire on you. She goes, yep, you know. And when she’s sick, if she gets better, she can take it. But it’s interesting how those make a difference. But yeah, you can alter your genes. If you look at, look at a study on even, you want the peptides, GHK, I think it was, showed like 40 something, good genes it raised and activated and 22 that they know of, bad ones that it suppressed. So, you know, the peptides work quickly, but they also work epigenetically at the gene level and change the way those genes are. So, if you have the gene, you can turn off. It doesn’t mean that it’s active. And that’s also like the gut, you know, the gut plays such a big epigenetic part of our system.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Right. Hence you shouldn’t be drinking Splenda, you know. So, I was talking to my trainer the other day, his guts bothering him, he’s drinking…. I’m like, what are you eating? What are you taking? What are your shakes? So, he showed me all his supplements. Every single thing he’s taking has sucralose, which is basically chlorinated sugar. And it’s just drinking bleach. So, he’s drinking basically bleach all day. I’m like, well, no wonder your gut’s a mess, right. Now he’s going to be having leaky gut just from that. But when you’re talking about the GHK, it made me think of the VIP. Like I, the VIP, when we just were in California, we learned about how that was pretty much the only thing that they found to epigenetically, like turn back on the genome to make it work properly. I remember when, oh, who was saying that?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Probably Shoemaker or, yeah.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Oh, it was Andy. Dr. Heyman. He was saying that.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, I like him. VIP I hesitate a little bit, because it does tend to raise pH2. But you know, everything is, you know, has its place.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Right. But I was just impressed that he showed that slide that pretty much everything that every Lyme and mold patient has wrong with them, you know, whether it’s the dermatographia, or the mast cell syndrome, or the brain fog, or just problems with detox, methylation, glucuronidation, sulfation, every single pathway he spoke of that VIP fixed if you can get there. So, the problem with the VIP is you have to clear the marcons, which is very difficult.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. And that’s what we found is that you try it doesn’t work. You got to kind of do a lot of other things first. So, can you just mention what VIP is?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Sorry?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Can you mention just what VIP is?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Oh, Vasoactive intestinal polypeptides. So, it’s a nasal spray peptide that we love to help with the gut and it gives you energy and it just makes you feel great, especially if you had mold or Lyme, but to be able to use that peptide, there’s all these steps you have to follow, which is difficult. Which is why I really like the Thymosin Alpha peptide because pretty much everyone I see with autoimmune or even if I think they’re autoimmune like, you know, just with the mast cell or the red, you know, my hands turn red when I eat, that kind of thing. If you put them on the Thymosin Alpha first and kind of prime them with your basic supplements, most everything else you do will get better along with the BPC, but that Thymosin Alpha, very few side effects, no contraindications that I’m aware of. Do you know of any?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, no. It’s, you know, it’s all the Thymosin. So, and you look at, you know, basically your thymus, here in your breastbone, it basically involutes and stops working. It starts, you know, very early on, but then by the time you’re 35 or 40 it’s about 5- 10%. And so, what it does, is it causes that immune dysfunction, lowers that TH1, TReg, increases TH17, which is the autoimmune and inflammation. So, all the Thymosin’s, so you’ve like Thymosin Alpha 1, probably the strongest TH1 booster, Thymosin Beta 4, kind of in-between Thymosin, in between as well, probably more anti-inflammatory. And then BPC lowers that TH2. Now, Thymosin Beta 4 is a long peptide, so you can’t take it orally. And it does have multiple domains that do different things. It has one domain that stimulates mast cells. But overall, if you give it nine times out of 10, the mast cell is going to improve because you’re fixing that immune system and not stimulating the mast cells, but, you know, so with the TB4-FRAG, that part is taken out.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

And, you know, before I started using the integrated peptides product, the TB4-FRAG, you know, I was a big, you know, I really loved the shots, you know, but they’re expensive, you know, and the oral peptides are a little less expensive. I wasn’t quite sure how well it would work, but with one of my case studies, I couldn’t, I was floored, I think it brought her thyroid antibodies down like 200 points on one of them, within just a few months. So, I mean the oral peptides, absolutely, like if you can figure out how to get the absorption, which you did, to work properly, I mean, it’s a great, affordable, alternative to doing the shots. And there are a lot of people that don’t want to do shots and they’ve got that needle phobia. So, TB4-FRAG absolutely works.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, and like BPC has shown to be equal potent, if you take it orally, subcutaneous, IV, intraperitoneal. But some people just like shots, some people, you know, like oral. And people… say what?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Do you think milligram for milligram for the BPC versus the shot? So, like 500 oral.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, yeah. That’s, that’s what the studies show, the studies show that they’re, it didn’t matter which way it was given, but some people may have gut, or you know, issues. So, but people just think of it as a gut hormone, but it’s actually a longer, you know, it’s still a very short peptide, but it’s longer than what typically absorbs. The problem is you get people throwing these peptides and, you know, sublingual, there are only three peptides you think you can absorb. No, because it matters what they are. If they’re very, most of them are very hydrophilic or lipophobic, meaning they like water and don’t like lipids. So, they don’t absorb very well. So, even a tripeptide, very small, may not absorb. So, you know, people are given those. So, you know, we’re doing the studies to really look and see, okay, which one’s going to absorb. And now how the heck do these longer ones absorb, what happens is they can form where all the lipophilic side chains, amino acids are on the outside so they can penetrate. And so it’s interesting. So, generally the smaller, the better, but not perfect correlation.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Well, that’s why BPC is so good. I mean, it’s only 15 amino’s. So, you know, pretty cool.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, but even usually like a four amino acid is tough to absorb, in general and even three could have a lot of problems, but some longer ones, absorb just the conformation. And there’s a lot of, it’s interesting. You look at, you know, studies on bioavailability and there’s so many theoretical way. Okay, you do, you know, liposomes don’t don’t work so well with those, but, you know, microspheres… and I am not a big fan of like stuff where it breaks down the tight junctions and let’s it in, when you’ve already got a big enough problem with leaky gut. I don’t want to make it worse.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

The oral diabetic peptide that’s prescription?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, yeah.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

I think it is.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. So that’s a big, you know, peptide. So, but they’re breaking down the blood brain, the gut barrier, you know, supposedly short time and it heals, but what about these people who are not healing? You know.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Most people.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

So, so what, so you mentioned the peptides that you like most for auto-immune, do you use any of the Melanocortins KPV?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Oh, you know, I just started into KPV, I only have one person on it. I don’t know why I was so slow to use that it wasn’t in my initial certification. Like, I don’t know if I…

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Well, because no one had it. Yeah.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

It just came up. So, I’m using it right now on a lady with a gastritis and colitis, and she said she was only 20% better on it.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I think you’ll get some good improvement, it’s probably one of the most anti-inflammatory and mast cell inhibitors. And the thing is, so like Cory Tichaeur, he talked about Lyme. He’ll use Melanotan, which is great. It has all the anti-inflammatory and has the benefits of making you tan, and losing weight, increases libido. But if you’re young, the tan looks good, but if you’re older, you get age spots that come out and all those. So, the KPV is actually just a tripeptide of it that has the anti-inflammatory, actually even more potent than the full peptide. But doesn’t have the melanocyte stimulating, so it doesn’t make your skin darker.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

But the one nice thing about the Melanotan, besides the skin thing, you know, it does help Alpha MSH. And are you checking that in many people?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Well, the Alpha MSH, you know, these are Alpha MSH agonists. So, they’re going to work on the same receptor.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Right. So, with everyone you check, they’re low. Like the range is zero to a hundred, which I don’t even know why they have zero, right?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. What is zero? I love it when they do estrogen zero to something.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Oh, but I’m in range. I’m a two. But anyway the Alpha MSH for like most of my mold patients, is like nine, eight, ten. So, I will use the Thymosin Alpha for them and I’ll use the Melanotan too, and it goes up, which I’m always impressed with. I mean, there’s so much more to it. But yeah…

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

You actually see Alpha 1 stimulating hormone go up with Melanotan?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yes. It goes up with the Malanotan. That’s what I see clinically. I can’t tell you what the research says, but when I use it, maybe it’s the TA1, the Thymosin Alpha 1, but when I use those alpha MSH will go up.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. That’s interesting. Because usually when you use an agonist, it’s kind of replacing it.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Right.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I’m going to check more into that.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Start checking your patients. But again, I’m using it with the TA1, so maybe it’s the Thymosin Alpha 1, but I like them together for immune system health. But if I’m worried about the tan spots, the sun spots, I will use the GHK-Cu and then you can do that topically too. It seems to help. It’s not tremendous, but it definitely helps lighten those spots. Because they happened to me, you know, I was using the Melanotan, and I was like, Oh my God, it looked like an old lady and had all these freckles everywhere that I didn’t have. And I don’t have time to get lasers. Like I’d love to, but I don’t have time. ,So I started…

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Oh, yeah, I did the Melanotan, and you know, I’m ADD, so I was like this isn’t working. And then, you know, there’s a lag. All of a sudden I was so dark. I looked like, it was like, Oh my God, where are you from? Some, you know.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Ethiopia.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Some tribe, you know, it was… I just looked like a freak.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

It’s an odd color too, tight? Like you’re tan, but it’s like a tinny almost color. Like there’s a, it’s a weird…

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, and then I turned blue from a long story, but true colloidal silver cannot make you turn blue. And I wrote a paper on that and I didn’t have problem until someone recommended another product, which actually is silver salts over protein because it was stronger, within two weeks, I was totally blue. And it’s irreversible, in general, I was able to reverse it and they would do laser on me. And then the person’s like, Oh my God, it’s like a tattoo. Because it’s basically metal in there.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

It’s still in your nail beds?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, it’s still my nail beds. Yeah. It’s better. But and then I took Dapsone, which is basically anti-malarial, you know, broad spectrum, very oxidative. And I got methemoglobinemia and then I was purple. And dressed in purple and I thank God was at home and I’m like, this isn’t good. And I had methylene blue, why would you treat blue with methylene blue, but that’s the treatment. It’s very antioxidant and reversed it. But, I was very freaky looking. Yeah.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Now, how did you do the methylene blue? Did you do liposomal or did you drink like, drink the water?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I did an IV. I had a PICC line in at the time. Yeah.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Gosh, you’re always so interesting to talk to you.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. Oh, I’ve almost, yeah. I do everything myself. I do toxicity studies on myself, you know.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

That’s how we learn.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And yeah. I’ve felt like I was going to die a couple of times.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah. Don’t give yourself some complex shot.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Honestly. I’d rather deal with it, then go to the hospital. That’s where bad things happen.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

But I think you told me, you gave yourself a B complex shot that was like from 2016.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

It was the Poly-MVA, which I think is great. But I told the IV guy, Oh, there’s some on my shelf, but he didn’t look that it was open and six years old.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

That’s crazy.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And so, I just injected preformed toxin. I’m just shaking, you know, and blood pressure’s dropping. I wouldn’t go to the hospital because they’re going to… kill me there. My blood pressure got down to, what was it? 40 over 20. And but I felt like I could still deal with it, but then someone called the ambulance, I got really mad, but, and then I went in and I said, well, can you, I’ve got sepsis. You know, I’m just telling them that. And I can’t stand up. But, you know, and then I asked for IV vitamin C and a bunch of stuff and they go, what do you mean IV vitamin C? I’m like, it’s only been in every journal for the last four years showing that the only thing to lower the death rate in sepsis, you know, and totally safe. And they’re like, we’ve never heard of it. And these are the ICU doctors. And so, I give him the studies and like, no, they’re not going to do it. And then one nurse went and convinced them. Oh, I convinced them. And then eight hours later, they come in and give me 500 milligrams of vitamin C.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

And it’s a pill.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

An emergency at 711.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

They are using it now for COVID, you know. So, that is nice. They’re actually doing it in our hospital.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, but they’re not. It’s like, you know, and glutathione, I don’t know if you saw the article by Horowitz where he tried to get this patient some glutathione, which probably would have saved the patient’s life, a Senator tried to get the hospital to do it. And Horowitz tried to beg the hospital, do it. Senator drove like four hours to pick it up. They brought it in, the hospital wouldn’t do it. And by the time they approved it, like three days later, the guy died. But you can reverse. And I gave a talk on peptides and STEM cells for COVID-19 and the studies on STEM cells, exosomes, peptides, just reversing it like immediately within 15 minutes.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

The Thymosin Alpha. It pretty immediate. So, in my patients, I’m like you already have it, use it. One of my doctor friends got it. I put her on the Thymosin Alpha 50 units for three days in a row, she cleared it, made antibodies. So, was tested positive, made antibodies in five days, very few symptoms. And then when my husband got COVID, same thing, 50 units. Now, I know you can use a full, like a full syringe or full vial rather IV, I just, I don’t know, I was a little conservative, but he had it for five days.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

No one should be dying. Even just giving a study, people on ventilators where the death rate is like 50%. So, they had a control group, 50% died. The other group, they just gave vitamin D, not even a big dose, went from 50% to 5%.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Wow.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And hello? Why aren’t we just handing out vitamin D, zinc, a flavonoid, and then also with sepsis, Thymosin Beta 4 is shown to go to zero and they don’t know if it’s used up or it’s suppressed. But giving that tremendous benefit with sepsis, well, all the Thymosin’s, like Thymosin Alpha 1, Thymosin Beta 4, Thymuline, Thymogen, all those things. So, again, it modulates immune system, lowers that IL-6 and the inflammation, which is the problem. And it’s also boosting the good immunity where steroids help, but they’re lowering the gut immunity as well, where the Thymosin’s, basically, you’re going to modulate that immunity.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Right. The TB4- FRAG I have to say, I have a handful of patients I put on it while they had COVID and reversed their lung issues and definitely no like post COVID cough that you hear about, or post COVID complications, you know, and that’s not like I did a study, but clinically I’m seeing like, it, it reversed all their complications with their lungs. Amazing, and it’s so inexpensive

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

There’s so many treatments that are like that. And look at, you know, the Brownstein study, he gave people with, you know, moderate to severe COVID where they had decreased in SATs. He gave them nebulized hydrogen peroxide, and all but one were just discharged, dramatic improvement in symptoms, on average, within 20 minutes, SATs came up. One person they sent to the hospital SATs came up, but not quite as much as they wanted, just to be sure, and they immediately discharged them. But you can’t even mention it. You know, we had an article on taking zinc, vitamin C, flavonoids are very good, even probiotics are good, with tons of references… Within 24 hours, the FTC said, take that down. It’s fake news.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Where was, where did he have it posted? Like on a website?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, he had it on his website. And same with us. You know, we weren’t selling anything, we were saying here, take these things. And 24 hours, boom warning letter from the FTC saying, you can’t say anything prevents. Now the FTC they’re different than the FDA. They don’t care if you make drug claims or whatever, as long as they’re true. And we had 50 references and no, you can’t make any claims. I don’t care if they’re true. It doesn’t matter. I mean, this is what we’re getting to.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

More and more. I mean, well look at Twitter and Facebook and Instagram.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. It’s bad. But anyways, we can go on and on and we’ll probably get letters ourselves. So, let’s see. So, what else? Yeah, so some common, auto-immune more systemic lupus. I know you get a lot of patients come in where they go to rheumatologists, they get diagnosed with mixed connective tissue disease, meaning they have a lot of auto antibodies, but don’t fit into any pattern. And you’ll see, you know, antibodies kind of come and go, multiple antiphospholipid syndrome.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

A lot of that.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

We’ll see that. And, you know, one said their doctor said, well, it’s genetic, you’re not going to fix it. I’m like, it’s going to go away, and it goes away.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah, and have you seen a lot of the nuclear speckled pattern lately? I don’t think I’ve ever seen that much in my life this past year. Have you seen a lot of that too?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, but I don’t pay too much attention because I just say, it will go away when we get rid of the infection.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah, and they go away, you know, the diet, the peptides, some supplements, but this nuclear speckled pattern, I mean, I’ve been checking ANA for 20 years and I’ve just recently seen, like so much, so I’m thinking there’s some new trigger that I’m missing besides mold, and heavy metals, and deficiencies, and toxicity.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Well, I think it’s, I think it’s multifactorial. And for instance, another study showed that heavy metals weren’t really a cause of autoimmunity. It didn’t increase it much at all unless, this was a study in Africa, people in a mine, what was the cesium, or gold, or something, but whatever, so that they didn’t have autoimmunity unless they had malaria, then the heavy metals just shot up the autoimmunity with that combination. And even just exposure.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah. So, Andy Hayman, Dr. Hayman was saying with mold people and Lyme people, when they have that toxic exposure, all of a sudden they can’t detox. So, a small amount of aluminum from like, you know, drinking out of a Yeti cup or drinking out of a LaCroix can, something like that, that would be toxic to them. And so, maybe that’s why I think it’s just like that genome, you know, like their ability to epigenetically shut down.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, and the problem is, is that doctors go or multiple chemical sensitivity stuff, or even, you know, people with these allergy, well, I’m fine…or mold, well, I’m fine. I live in that house. Well, yeah, you’re not susceptible. And, you know, or even people, if you just have Lyme, you’re probably going to be fine and you may never have symptoms, it’s when you get everything else, you know, it could also be stress, age, you know, toxins, pesticides, plastics, you know, chronic infections, there’s so many things that, that affect the mitochondria dysfunction, everything’s a vicious cycle. And then once you get there, it’s like, well, what’s the cause? It’s kind of like, there’s so many, which is why you really need multi-system treatment, right.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Absolutely.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And where in standard medicine, you got the neurologist doing this, the cardiologist doing this gastroenterologist doing that. They don’t put it together.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

I love when I hear them say, Oh, you don’t need to detox, your body does it on its own. Right. You hear that all the time. Yes, you need to detox, your body’s not doing it on its own. Clearly. Otherwise you wouldn’t be 300 pounds with psoriasis, and your hair falling out, you know.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Let me ask you, what do you like to do for detox?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

I love that DesBio kit. Have you done that DesBio comprehensive detox kit? It’s like six little vials and it’s got all these different homeopathic remedies in it and tinctures, but it works. Like you’ll get people with like six line band after you just do this, cleanse, they’re gone and they feel better. Or, you know, their mycotoxins will go down, but it’s just these little tinctures you put in water and drink throughout the day. It’s relatively inexpensive. That’s my favorite. Or I’ll do IV detox. I’ll do my total body ozone dialysis. That EPO 2, that’s great detox. Ozone sauna, infrared sauna. I like a lot of shakes. Like I’ll use OptiCleanse from Xymogen or the Core Restore detox. That’s a good one too. That’s a seven day kit from Orthomolecular.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

So, what’s in that, in general?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Oh, so the Core, they all work on like, it’s got like calcium D glucarate, minerals like molybdenum. So, what else? Methylated B vitamins, water cress, a bunch of…

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Are there binders in those too as well?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Sorry?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Are there binders in those? Not too

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Not too much. Like there might be some like artichoke in there. Maybe. I don’t even think they have bentonite clay, but a lot of fiber inulin. So, I think they’re using binders just with the fiber, but I’ll use it as a gentle cleanse in the beginning. And then I’ll go to something like the GI detox from Bio Botanicals or I’ll use Quicksilver. Quicksilver has a great detox cube. Have you used that product?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Well, they’re actually a great company.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah. Chris Shade’s a genius. I love him.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. And actually like BPC is shown to, you know, bind and protect from toxins as well. Do you do any lymphatic work or anything?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

With our HOCATT you know, that ozone sauna does a lot of lymph drainage and I’ll refer out for that.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I love the HOCATT. Explain what the HOCATT is.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

So, the HOCATT is this ozone sauna that has infrared, has a rife machine in it. It’s got pulsed, electromagnetic frequencies in it. So, carbonic acid, basically sit in this little…

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Carbonic acid, yeah. So, it dilates your vessels before it puts the ozone in.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah. So, you sit in this little egg for five minutes, you get the carbonic acid, it helps with circulation blood flow. It calms you down, makes you feel very chill. Then they’ve got infrared going on the whole time. Then they pump in the ozone, you’ve got oxygen on your face, so you don’t breathe the ozone in. It’s like 30 minutes, very relaxing, but it’s working on every single thing possible. So, that’s an excellent detox, but you got to go to a clinic that has them, and then there’s a pretty good amount of clinics around them.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. And we had one and we just couldn’t get people here. The staff never mentioned, doctors never mentioned it. Plus, we only had a tiny room where you have to get naked or your shorts, you know, and it wasn’t conducive to it.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah. You have to have the right staff. You have to kind of make it like very Zen and spa, but it works. I mean, for people that can’t afford IVs and peptides even, well I put on BPC, because that’s pretty affordable and I’ll shove them in that little detox pod and they get better.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

W gave it to our CPA, she loves it. She’s got her own HOCATT.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Oh, what a gift. Can you write it off?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. I have a lot of, a lot of gadgets that I think work well, but it’s, you know, unfortunately marketability, you only got so much space and, you know, what the doctors, what kind of makes sense, or it makes sense to the patient. You know, sometimes it’s takes too long to explain how something works and it’s like, well… you know, or it sounds too crazy.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Well, that’s why, honestly, I generally try to give a gift to my patients, like the first time I see them just because they don’t know me, you know, this word of mouth, usually we don’t really advertise and sell. So, Ill say try one of these HOCATT’s on me, or I’ll say, you know, try this supplement on me. Sometimes I’ll even give them a BPC, like that is I think it’s like almost 200 bucks, but you know, it’s a very pricey supplement, but I meant it when I met you, like that, if there’s only one thing I give somebody BPC 157 makes every single thing you do work better just because it wakes up the brain. It tells the gut to work again, helps with absorption. It’s like all the signals are back on. Oh, I love it for fertility. Like I didn’t even, it wasn’t trying to use it for fertility, but the people I kept putting them on it for other things, they come in pregnant. So, now it’s part of my fertility program.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. Inflammation’s a fertility killer. Have you used Epitalon for fertility?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Not for fertility. I use it for sleep and longevity, but I’m sure…

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. The one study showed, it was a rat study. I think it was 135 menopausal rats. They gave them all Epitalon, 65% started menstruating and 25% had normal births with it. It’s probably the ultimate anti-aging peptide. You know, shown through another study, people over 65 years old with cardiovascular disease, a 15 year study you have the people on the Epitalon, and they also combined it with Thymuline. So, like Thymus Alpha 1, Thymus Beta 4, TB40-FREG, they work very synergistically, found their cardiovascular system got better, not worse. And they had like between two and four fold decrease in cardiovascular events, mortality, morbidity, and cancer. And they only did it every three times, six months apart.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah. You don’t have to do that much.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. I mean, it’s like no downside, like, and we’re sitting here playing with statins and which they’ll, if you look at the studies, it’s like that and placebo or like right here and they’re, you know, they do huge studies to try to get that statistical significance because it’s not that big a difference. You have to treat 99 patients with a statin to get benefit in one. And you’re getting all the side effects from the others, including diabetes, memory loss, dementia neuropathy, and more and more studies are showing that statins aren’t the way to go. Oh, it makes me sick. It’s malpractice to give some 40 year old guy with high cholesterol, a statin. I mean, it’s nuts.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Or a ninety year old female, you know, put her on statin at age 90. Really….

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, it’s shown not to work for diabetics, elderly, who are the people you would think.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Post-menopausal women. Yeah.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

So, it’s nuts. So, with the Thymosin, it sounds like you like Thymosin’s, can you mention the mechanism, how they work?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

So, they work on the T helper cells. So, like you were saying, you know, they just help basically with autoimmune disease, the immune system gets confused and it makes all these little antibodies to attack this foreign invader, which happens to be your tissue, you know. So it’s attacking your thyroid or your pituitary or your gut if you’ve got IBS. So, Thymosin, again I use more alpha than I do beta. It just seems to tell the T Helper cells, hey, like don’t attack this, calm down, attack that. It Just decreases the inflammation and then makes the immune system work the way it should. That’s what I find. The Beta I like for hair, I have to say, not the FRAG but the…

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

The FRAG will not work for hair, but we will have a hair FRAG.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

A hair what?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

The fragment for hair.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

You’ll have… oh, you’re going to have one coming out.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

TB4 hair FRAG, so it will be much smaller. So, there’s domain, domain that has all that anti-inflammatory, immune modulation, there’s domain that stimulates mast cells, there’s domain that grows hair, that is only four amino acids, so much smaller. So, gets into the scalp. So…

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

When is that coming out? You’re doing an oral version of that one?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

We could, we’ll probably come out with a scalp cream with the… Well, I should say someone’s coming out with, ideally is a very potent, STEM cell exosome product. Exosomes would get in the tissues, and then add the peptides to that, that are shown to stimulate hair growth. Thymuline also, good studies showing significant hair growth, maybe even better than TB4. And but Thymogen does not, and Thymosin Alpha 1 does not.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Oh, yeah. I use the GHK-Cu for hair and Thymosin Beta, and of course BPC.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. Can you talk about GHK?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah, I mean, just the GHK-Cu, I think that it is amazing. It’s got some anti cancer properties, some antimicrobial properties it’s got, it seems great for hair, skin, nails, lightening of the skin. I like that. And then for COPD, like really good for like issues with the lungs, I’ve been using it for that lately with my elderly patients.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And so, are you doing that as injectable.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Injectable. I started doing a little bit in the IV, but I don’t have enough experience to say like, oh, it’s great or not. So, I just started, it’s too difficult for the patients with COVID now to be coming in, getting the IVs. So, it’s easier to say here, I’m going to ship you this peptide and give yourself a shot every day, but, you know I see…

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Oh, sorry. You’ll see it in cosmetics. And the whole problem with, you know, there’s a ton of peptide cosmetics, a ton of, you know, STEM cell cosmetics are usually apple STEM cells. And the amount of peptides they put in these things is so small, you know, that it, they work actually, but not nearly as much as a good dose. If you have GHK and it’s not blue, there’s hardly any.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Oh, it’s not blue… but, so what do you think about the products that they’re compounding topically? I think they work, that Botox in the bottle now, the topical it’s got the GHK-Cu and then something, it sounds like arginine, but it’s not arginine.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, there’s, that’s been the mainstay, aregenolin…

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah, something like that. I’ve got it downstairs.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And then the new version of that, (Loufozel) , I don’t know how to pronounce all this stuff because I have no one to talk to about it, but, and then combining those even works better. So, they’re really like Botox topically, so they’ll paralyze the muscles, and they work and then you get like GHK, and then we like adding like the TB4- FRAG, BPC, kind of the rejuvenative peptides as well. We have some, or some people came with some special ones that you may not have heard of. It’s very cool, but…

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Like what? Like, which ones? Like you’re holding out on me. You’re holding out, I want to hear them.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

We don’t know yet. We’re finding it’s very interesting that very small peptides, let’s say two peptide, bipeptides. Like how the heck could they do something? And very interestingly, they couldn’t find a receptor, right. And it looks like, the studies show that they work harmonically. So, you know, each molecules vibrate at a certain thing and it stimulates the cells to do this, which makes me a little scared of all this, you know, EMF’s, WiFi, 5G, how much is that going to mess up that, you know. Do you do anything with EMF’s and tell people like, turn off their wifi or?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Oh, definitely. I mean, it comes up, like I do some of those, like those, biofeedback machines, I think we were talking about that the other day. There’s a new one I’m using called AO scan that I like lately, but it picks up that every one’s full of EMF’s. So, yeah. Turn off the WiFi, keep your cell phone, like eight feet away, if you can, even like…

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

You can actually get a meter and look at the European standards for what is acceptable for long-term exposure of EMF’s and you put your cell phone next to it, like it should be less than 10, it can go up to a million. I have lymphoma patients, don’t have a lot, but they come in, and I ask, did you live by high tension wires? Bingo. Because it’s more of the there’s, you know, basically electrical field and then you’ve got the magnetic field and those big high tension wires, the big problem is the magnetic field. And seems to be lymphoma is like one of the major things, which also makes me worried about electric cars, you know, that are those cancer mobiles.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

That’s a good question. My brother has one, he’s a pilot. So, you know, he’s getting fried all the time and he’s got every single gadget known to man because he just loves all his electronics. And he’s only two years older. And I love him, but you can just tell he’s getting radiation. I have one of those EMF readers and I’ll check throughout my house, my husband thinks I’m crazy, but in my old condo, I could never sleep. And right behind my bed, I don’t know what was in the complex behind me, but it was like the meter was off the chart as if my cell phone was like right on it. And so we had to move the bed and I slept a little bit better, but I think condos are just wired.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

They are, and then you get dirty electrodes, there are so many sources. Actually, it also stimulates mold growth.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yes, yes. So, we’re in downtown West Palm beach where my clinic is, and there’s a lot of high rises and I’m like, why is everyone full of so many Mycotoxins? Like, it’s definitely, they’re all in the condos. So, I tell people you’ve got to move. There’s nothing you can do. Sorry. But what do you think about this whole 5G thing? I know it’s off topic, but I’d really like your opinion.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I’m very worried, you know, and the thing is, so the electromagnetic field, basically activates. So, it’s, you know, especially at night, you want to turn it off, because it’s, it’s activating where the magnetic part is, the cancer part. But we’re being bombarded, you know, and you look at like how much damage, like you look at the Cuban embassy, right? They sent electromagnetic waves at these people and they went crazy. Or you look at space sickness, you know, they’re being bombarded with electromagnetic waves and they go nutso. And so, it’s scary. And I think it, again, it’s a long discussion, but it can make people like kind of very black and white, polarized. You know, don’t see other points of view. It’s a little scary.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Like a little mind control-ish. And then the concern is all the heavy metals will react to, almost like an antenna, with the 5G. That’s my concern.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. When you add that to heavy metals and yeah. It’s oftentimes, you know, never one thing, but when you have, you know, four things, it’s like, yeah, one, plus one, plus one, plus one, equals 50, you know, fast. And you mentioned BPC and how you’re a lover of BPC-157, body protecting compound.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah. It’s, you know, it’s colitis, Crohn’s, constipation, digestion, hormone issues, brain fog, traumatic brain injury, migraines. I mean, pain, I use it for like just plain old arthritis, skin issues, eczema, psoriasis, like pretty much you name an illness and I’ll say use BPC.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And when I lecture, like people are like, this is crazy. You can’t do all those like snake oil, but it’s like, here’s all the studies. And then the biggest comment I get is how come I haven’t heard of this when there’s so many studies on it? And they go, wait a minute, you know, this is crazy that something can do so many good things and have no toxicity. You know, they can’t find a toxic level. It’s that we’re, you can’t take a thousand times, get thousands of doses. No problem. You can’t do that with water, you know? So, it’s interesting, you know, but not condoning high doses, talk to your physician. What is, so do you start one peptide at a time with someone with autoimmune or what’s your, what’s your protocol? I hate, I’m not a big protocol person.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

It depends on the patient. I have to say in general, in general, I use the BPC first, if they can afford to layer it with the TB, I’ll do that. So, those are like right there on my shelf, easy. They can go home and start that today. That’s what I do. And then if they can afford the extra I’ll use Thymosin Alpha. If it’s more like Lyme, viral infection stuff, maybe I’ll start with the alpha and the BPC first, and then I’ll add in the TB4, but it’s always those three, honestly, I’m pretty boring, but I get great results with those. So, now that KPV is out I’m going to start using that too, but I just love how affordable and how easy I can access the TB4-FRAG BPC.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And how has it changed your practice using peptides?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

So, I don’t have to use as many supplements. I don’t have to do as long protocols with IVs and with the detox. I even, it seems like it’s changed it because I get results faster. So, it helps my outcomes, which then helps your bottom line because then people refer to you like, Oh, I saw this person and she helped me in just one session, you now which used to be like maybe three or four, maybe five sessions, maybe even a year, it takes to get someone to change. So, it’s changed my practice because I get results more quickly and it’s changing people’s lives, which is much more important than my practice.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. And I give a lot out and, or like at conferences, so that knee pain, here take this and they come back and go, I did not believe it was going to work, but my knee pain I’ve had for three months has gone, you know. Yeah. And I, you know, and people will say, well, it’s not that expensive, especially compared, I mean, supplements are so expensive now, unless you get some cheap thing from Costco, but you actually saved money because you don’t have to do all the other things

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

You don’t need as much, right. So, when people come in with these cytokines, like really high and all these markers of inflammation, and normally I’d have to get like a fish oil, CoQ10…

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And you get capsule fatigue, you know.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

So, I can just give them like a BPC and one other thing and say, okay, you know, let’s see in a month, what happens?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And they work in tiny doses too. So, a lot of things like with supplements, you got to take the powder because you got to like, you know, take so much or eight capsules. And these work in actually the nanograms, you know, basically a hundred thousand less or mostly microgram doses we use, you know, which is where supplements are usually milligrams, which is a thousand times more. And at tiny doses or even TB4, was it TB4 or BPC… basic compared to acyclovir as an antiviral, outperformed it at 1:100th dose.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Oh, wow. And that was a human study or a rat study or…?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I think it was a human study. I could be wrong though. Yeah, and every study I’ve seen on, there’s not that many, they’ve all been on viruses. I want to see studies on bacteria, but it’s been tremendous, you know.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

So, you’re using it a lot for Epstein Barr then?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, and all the herpes viruses. Yeah.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Well, and everyone I test is positive for HHV-6. You know, you were mentioning that earlier and we see, I test it for dementia, but I guess we all have it, right. Do you see that in your patients too?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, and the thing is when you look at the herpes viruses is, you know, the standard we’re taught in medical school and unfortunately, infectious disease still think this is that, you know, you make IgM antibodies first and, which are very good. They just kind of hold on to the organism. They don’t activate compliment, which kind of explodes the thing. Then you make IgG. So, if you have symptoms, they’ll say, well, you know, there’s IgG, it’s old infection, it’s not active. Well, no, because it’s a reactivated infection. And you’ll see the opposite with Lyme is that there’ll be IgM positive. And so, they’ll say, well, you’ve had these symptoms for a long time. So, it’s obviously a false positive, but if you don’t have good TH1 immunity, you can’t convert IgM to the more potent IgG. So, you give the Thymosin’s, you know, or you can also treat the infection, but if your immune system is low, you don’t have good results usually. So, let’s say you give, you know, the Thymosin’s for that, all of a sudden your immune system. Now, all of a sudden, the IgG lights up because now your body’s able to start fighting it.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

And you’ll see, when you do a Western blot for Lyme, after giving the peptides and Thymosin’s, and even sometimes BPC, for me, all of a sudden you’ll get five or six bands when you only had one.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Which is proof that they have it, or also like, you know, they want five bands, which is crazy to be officially positive, but you have like bands like 39, like no normal people have those bands. And so, and then you add, it’s like the lotto, if this one is, let’s say 1% of people, this one’s 5% of people, you add those together and it’s like, point zero, zero, percent chance that it’s a false positive, but they go, oh, it’s negative.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

So, you can sense our frustration if you’re listening in with what happens in real medicine and why there’s so many, so much misdiagnosis and why people are still so ill.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And my doctor says, I don’t have it. Yeah. Because they’ll just look at the, oh, it says negative, you know.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah. But there’s nothing wrong with me. You know, you got fibromyalgia. Well, where do you think fibromyalgia comes from? You know.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Or, yeah, there’s a cause, I think that did a disservice because it labeled people, but it allowed doctors not to look for a cause, and just say, Oh, here’s an antidepressant go away, you’ve got fibromyalgia.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah. Yeah, just by name. What do you think about this global pain syndrome they’re using now?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Oh, yeah. You know, and there’s like ME, and then, yeah, so they changed chronic fatigue syndrome to the, oh my gosh, post exertional fatigue syndrome. So, really if you have, if you exercise or have stress, you get worse or the fibromyalgia diagnosis is so ridiculous, 1,118 tender points, there is nothing special about those tender points. And we’re watching this rheumatology video of, he took a delometer, you know, a little machine to measure and it took them like 30 minutes. I’m like, there’s nothing special about those points. How do you diagnose fibromyalgia? You have muscle pain? Yes. 

Okay. Do you have sleep disorder? Yes. Are you fatigued? Yes. Do you feel worse when you exercise? Yes. Do you have brain fog? Yes. It’s like… and actually I did a review article, the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis in chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, and they found they’re really the same illness. One just diagnosed with, with basically an exam and the other one’s diagnosed with symptoms, but the same. But the fibromyalgia patients had more hypothalamic inflammation and dysfunction and the chronic fatigue syndrome patient more pituitary, which ends up being kind of the same, but the pain center is in the hypothalamus. So, the fibromyalgia had more pain.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

So, what’s your go-to for a fibromyalgia patient with your peptides?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

The what?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

What’s your go-to peptide treatment?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Oh, now you’re putting me on the spot. Wait a minute. We’re not supposed to…

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

I’m interviewing you now, doc.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, no, it’s kind of the same. I mean, you know, and people say, oh, there’s no test, duh, duh, duh… I love doing a lot of tests, getting a lot of information upfront, painting a picture, and we can tell without talking to the patient, knowing any history, how sick that patient is. And if they have fibromyalgia, Lyme, Sears, whatever it may be. So, don’t tell me it’s a made up, you know, illness. His doctors say, Oh, it’s psychological because they don’t want to look into it and have to treat it, because once they believe in it, now if they don’t treat it they’re a bad doctor right? No, they can blame the patient. But yeah, really, you know, we’ve turned into an immune modulatory clinic. I think we’ve found that we get the patients from point A to point B much quicker, even if they’re positive for Lyme, they’ll say give me antibiotics. 

You know, not yet, they won’t work. I did four and a half years on the highest dose IV antibiotic. It did nothing. So, it made me sicker. And that’s when I went, you know, found and really look at the immune system that if you have no immune system, you can never take enough antibotics to kill something your immune system has to take over, right. You have to knock it down. And then with the low immune system, you’re reactivating viruses, which suppress immune system more, they make TH2 higher. So, you get autoimmune, you get all these things. So, you know, we were looking at immune modulatory, look at the gut. And thyroid is key and I lecture so much on everyone’s low thyroid with a chronic illness or aging. I would say, give me T3, peptides and ozone, and you could cure more patients than most specialists.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

I agree. Ozone is wonderful.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And maybe a little heparin throw it in there.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Or LL 37, an antimicrobial, peptide. And I thin you’re, you use that right?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah. Yeah. I like that for autoimmune. I can’t start there because it kind of will Herks a little on that. You’ll have a little reaction.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, you got to watch out. You got to watch out. Because when I first did it number of years ago, there was no dosing data. So, I just go, okay, let me, let me just do, I did like a CC and Oh, my God, I thought I was going to jump out of my skin and I had to see patients, and I was like having a panic attack and like talking with the patients. And then, my partner in integrated peptides is looking at me like, I’ve never seen anyone like this. I’m like, I’m doing all this Gaba, like, Max Relax and doing this stuff. And I’m like, don’t touch me, but I got to see patients, you know. So, I’ve learned, yeah, go slow with that one.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

That’s funny. Yeah, I’ll usually use Thymosin Alpha first and then the BPC then, then I’ll throw in the beta and then LL-37 is my last one.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, because it’s nice that, you know, it gets in the biofilms also, BPC and especially the TB4- FRAG is so small. It gets into those biofilms as does LL-37 and breaks them up at, even at nanograms. So 1/1000th of the microgram breaks up biofilms. So, even super low dose is going to help your patients.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

So, when it’s breaking up the biofilms, do you feel like people have a little reaction to that on the oral?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

They can, but not, not a huge amount.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah, I don’t see people react to that too much. Sometimes my mold patients, if I hit them too hard with the BPC at first, which sometimes I’ll get aggressive and I’m like, do two, twice a day, two four times a day, or something crazy. And I’m like, oh that was too much.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Because in general, it’s kind of an immunomodulator. So it’s, it’s a treatment for Herxheimer as well. I think of the Thymosin’s, I mean like BPC, they lower TH2. And all the Thymosin’s work for Herxheimer, but Thymuline is probably is the best. It’s much more anti-inflammatory

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

You know, I don’t use Thymuline, I need to use that one.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Not many people use it.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

What’s your dose?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

It’s basically the same as the others, you know.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

So, like 300 micrograms…

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, yeah. And you can go higher. And for instance, with TB4, so they’re very synergistic with so many things as you know, so they’ll boost STEM cells and when we were, we would do a lot of STEM cells, we’ve switched more to exosomes or decullularized growth factors now, which are how STEM cells communicate, STEM cells don’t go to an area and start growing. They don’t do that. They’ve had studies where they separate, you know, the STEM cells from the injury and they work just as well. But they work through, they secrete little packets, protected packets, lipids that go to the cell where they’re needed, fuse, dump the contents right in there. But so we were giving Thymosin Beta 4, BPC, AOD, LL 37, also great stimulator o STEM cells. And I put one on the dose, right. And so I meant one CC, but our vials had one milligram. So, thousand micrograms, they were doing one vial, which was 30 milligrams, right. And which is, I don’t know if I should admit this little thing, but I didn’t know because there was never a problem. And after months, I go, Oh my God, what happened? Tell me the bad effects. They go, no one, had people on fentanyl said my pain is gone. You know, it’s like, it shows this. And that’s what the studies show that they gave healthy people, I think they went up to 1,250 milligrams of IV TB4, no reported side effects.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Oh, I wanted to ask you this. So, they found in cancer patients that they made more TB4, like to protect themselves, to protect, I think it was a lung cancer study I was reading and they had higher amounts of TB4 in their cells. Can you comment on that?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

So, when you look at the studies on TB4, there are some studies that will show that there’s higher TB4 in the area of the cancer. And if you look at a couple of ways, is that, you know, you look, hey, there’s a fire, there’s firemen every time I go there, they must be causing the fire, you know. And so, it’s secreted in response to infections, but also the cancers will secrete a TB4, which happens to be a little different type of TB4, right. And the level is so much higher around that then, becasue it seems like it’s healing and growth, you know, growth and healing. So, basically like a cancer can use it to grow just like giving vitamin D. And it also, you know, can increase angiogenesis, where people go, oh, cause cancer, well, yeah, so does vitamin D and vitamin C, which are shown to reduce cancer, but there’s no way you can get the level of TB4 in that area by giving it, you can’t come close. And, but most of the studies, for instance, on like melanoma, they just give it directly to cancer, it suppresses the cancer. So it, you know, is listed as anti-cancer, but there are studies showing that, hey, there’s higher levels around cancers. One explanation may be it’s the body’s response or it’s like, hey, high white cells cause cancer, you know. Yeah. So it’s the response and it’s actually a different modification of TB4 that the cancer cells are secreting.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah. But in general, it’s good, because it’s raising. And if you look at, or I see this so much, and the studies are clear, that I have this on like one of my lectures, where when you get like something resected, they’ll say, oh, we got everything. There’s still cancer cells around, right. And the rate of relapse directly correlates with your level of natural killer cell function. So, natural killer cell function is that TH1 marker that monitors your body for intracellular infections, for cancer. And which is, we find is a marker for chronic infections, chronic Lyme, chronic fatigue syndrome. One study found chronic fatigue syndrome, which a lot of those are Lyme, most all have chronic infections. that 75% had low natural killer cell function. So, they had natural killer cells there, but they were ineffective, didn’t do anything. And 25% had low number and that number correlated and was directly correlated with the amount of disability.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

So, the lower the NK cell, the sicker they are. And I remember, mine was, you know, sometimes zero to three, normal should be 30. I remember when I had sepsis, I was in the hospital, in the ICU, and I hear the nurses outside saying, well, this is that AIDS patient who keeps turning up negative for HIV. You know, an I’ve been tested, you know, I don’t know how many times, because… well now my immune system is good, but it was so low, I couldn’t fight anything. And it was really Lyme, Babesia, Bartonella. Babesia, probably the biggest immunosuppressant, in my opinion. But that directly correlates with symptoms as does C4A, which is, you know, and then human transforming growth factor, beta, problem is, those are probably the three tests they screw up the most. Yeah, that what?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

LabCorp seems to be the best, getting those for awhile.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

You can get them, but I’ve talked to them so much and I love them. You know, they brought their whole team in and their director. I said, your tests are not correlating clinically. And it’s a little scary too, as we sent our web guy, just really basic tests to a Quest and a LabCorp on top of each other, just to do the same test, each one, like just went one to another. One showed that he was diabetic, other one showed his blood sugar was great. Like one was a 5.9, the other one was 5.2 hemoglobin A1C. One insulin was like off the charts. The other one was 2. And these are just basic labs.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

They do this to me, enough to know it’s often, you’ll send them in to do a test, sometimes they’ll run it twice and they’ll give you the report and they’re totally different. And so, then I’m like, well, is it someone else’s blood? I don’t know. I don’t even know why they ran it twice, but I’ll get the report. And I’m like, same day, same person.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. It’s discouraging as a doctor and as a patient. Y Know, I had like, when I was sick, I had, my veins were so gigantic. They were just like garden hoses, like all my legs. I remember like walking up the stairs and this kid going, daddy, what’s wrong with his legs, you know. And they were huge. So, I go to this cardiovascular surgery, sclerosis, my greater saphenous even, and my legs were swollen for so long and then he did, I said, you know, I got this vessel here. Can you do that? And he does. He goes, “Oh, shit.” I’m like, what? He goes, “Can you see?” I’m like, yeah. And then he does it again on the other side. “Can you see?” And I’m like, yeah. And then in the crest of my forehead, but anyways, but like, no one will do that. And then it turned out to be am I VEGF, Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor, from that Bartonella stimulates made my vessels huge. They weren’t varicose. They were just gigantic. Then I got rid of the Bartonella and now I have no veins. But, yeah, it’s not… Now if, when you check the VEGF Quest seems to have a big problem running it. If it’s zero, it’s worthless. Okay. But if you have a number it’s good, you know, they’ll see that as another marker for Bartonella.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Quest, they don’t do zero. They do less, at least in Florida, they do less than 31. So, it could be 29. It could be two. I have no idea.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. But, but if you get a number, it’s probably okay. But when you get, when you get zero then it’s just worthless.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

LabCorp, their VEGF’s are better. Now there’s a plasma and a serum. Which one do you order?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I think we figured I ran them in parallel. And I’m not going to mix them up, I think, and eosinophilic cationic protein, ECP. Do you check that?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

No, I don’t.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

So, that’s a marker, that’s made by eosinophils and it can go up with someone with significant allergies, but you usually don’t see it that high. But if you check it on someone, oftentimes it’s high normal. Then if you treat him for parasites or anti-malarials, and it often goes way up now, you just have a diagnosis for Babesia.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Oh, that’s good to know.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah, and then the other tests that I love is, and I do on pretty much everyone, you look at the immune system, do those markers, because checking for these infections, oftentimes, I mean, a negative means nothing, you know, they’re so insensitive, is the coagulation panel. So, you check, basically D-dimer, fibrinogen, prothrombin fragment one and two, thrombin antithrombin complex and plasma, activator, activator PI one. And if any, one of those are positive, they have immune activation of coagulation. And so, what the body does, it tries to lay down this fibrin to block off the infection. So, which is good in the short run, but now your body can’t get at it. And it also prevents nutrients getting in, the hormones, getting in, waste products, getting out. And if you find nothing’s working, often, we’ve found that we’ve did IVs and just nothing. And it wasn’t getting in. And all of a sudden you treat that, you give a low-dose heparin and people freak out, like it’s safer than aspirin the doses that we give 5,000 units twice a day. You feel good, don’t you feel good when you have Heparin? You feel amazing. And how toxic am I that a Heparin drip makes me feel good?

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah. And it’s an immune modulator and it actually suppresses Babesia and Lyme. And the thing is once you clean that up, it usually takes two to three months, and it feels so much better. There’s a little test that you can do. It’s a little parlor trick, kind of, it’s not perfect because it does depend on patient motivation, but know you put a pulse-ox on, right. So, it measures the amount of oxygen in your blood, the amount of hemoglobin that’s saturated. So, usually 97, 98, and then you let people blow out all their air and hold their breath as long as they can. So, now there’s no oxygen coming in from the lungs into the bloodstream, through the heart, going to the cells, then it should go into the cells and then be used up and come back as the deoxyhemoglobin. So, the saturation should start dropping after 10, 15 seconds.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Now you’ll find people with a coagulation defect, is it barely drops or sometimes none at all. And people, oh, that’s great, your oxygen, your blood is still 96. It’s bad. Your cells aren’t getting oxygen. So, normally it takes two seconds to get into the blood, into the cells, but it takes two minutes with this fibrin. And so, a lot of people complain of air hunger, give a little heparin, boom, solves it. And there’s one patient we’re doing IVs, all of a sudden we gave him, and he was just resistant to heparin. And we finally gave it to him. He goes, everything’s working, you know, because we cleaned out the gunk. So, it now got into the cell. So, when I have people with a coagulation defect, which is so common immune activation of coagulation, a lot of original studies done by Berg, but I say I have good news and bad news. The bad news is you have a coagulation defect. The good news is you have coagulation defect because we can treat it. And the nice thing is you clean it up and it stays away.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

And do you feel like, do you feel like the nattokinase and the (Inaudible) is that strong…

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Usually not strong enough, at least on ADD over time. It will be, I think it’s good to keep it away. But you can use that with the heparin, but usually a little heparin for a couple of months will act much quicker. Lovenox also works. Other ones don’t work, aspirin doesn’t work because that’s a platelet issue. All the newer anticoagulants don’t work. I haven’t used a lot of them because they’re so expensive. They don’t cover it. They go, well, where’s the clot? Well, it’s everywhere, but it’s a pre-clot, but, warfarin, forget, it don’t even use that. But, and then, you know, I’m on like the masterminds mast cell group, which they think heparin’s bad, right. Mast cells can secrete heparin, you know, all these things. 

So, I’m like, you can kick me out of the group, but I’m telling you, heparin will suppress mast cells. You’re crazy. And so, I got, kind of convinced them, like, let me take the patients off heparin and put them on something else, at least Lovenox. And I call him, and I’m like can we switch you? No! I’m not switching. You know, so I’ve seen like three people out of 10,000 or whatever, feel worse where I think it’s releasing all the infections from the gunk. And they can get Herxheimer, but in general, so I don’t worry about it. It’s not enough to raise the PTT either. And you’ll find people with coagulation defect, they’ll have, you know, a low end PTT and a low SED rate, which is interesting. So, when we think of high inflammation, high SED rate, but if it’s low, think of coagulation defect.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Well, you know, we do see a lot of D dimers positive with mold and fibrinogen, I have not been checking the full coagulation panel. I’m going to do that now. Are you using LabCorp?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

With that one doesn’t matter too much. I remember I brought my test in just to my cardiologist to see what he had to say. And normal is less than 0.5. Mine was 50. And I said, what do you think? He’s like, you got a pulmonary embolus and I’m like, no. And he’s like, I don’t know. He didn’t care. He was like, I don’t know. And then he walks away. So, I’ll put, my blood was so thick, you could not draw it out with a 14 gauge needle.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

So, this is the problem we have with some people doing that total body ozone dialysis, the EVO2. Like, you know, even though we give them heparin and this includes me, so I’m starting to worry like, Oh my gosh, but we’ll give heparin, and it’s like, slow comes out like ketchup.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. So, I’m going to go out and visit Matt Cook and check it out. But that’s what I worry about because I’ve done a lot of stuff where like the ten pass with the machine, I’ve never gotten more than three. So, we do 10 pass, just fill up a big bag of blood and then put in a liter of ozone, you know, and then do it that way. And it doesn’t clot. And two, you don’t have to sit there and watch the machine, but yeah, so it’s, you know, we found a better way to do it and get the great results.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Well, that EPO2 machine is very helpful and I’ve been having good success with that with patients.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

So, that also has a kind of a dialysis, but also a plasmapheresis filter.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yes, yes, yes. Plasmapheresis filter. And then we are using UV with it too, so as it comes out, it’s going through the UV and then it goes back, back in. And I think I used the red light on the opposite side, or is it the red light and then UV, I forget, but we have two different lights and people feel great. Sometimes they…no one Herx’s which is nice. Some people get a little tired, but the first time I did it, I felt like I could run a marathon. Second time I did it I was like, I don’t feel anything. Well, the second time I did it and my blood seemed a lot thicker. So, I don’t think I got the full treatment because you’re supposed to be able to get five liters of blood an hour with the pump. Beause there’s like a pump to pump your blood and you have a 22 gauge. Yeah. So, it’s fast when you come, you know, we’ll, you’ll start, we’ll do it to you. But I’m starting to really think I need more heparin. So, how are you dosing it daily for people?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Usually work up to 5,000, twice a day. Now side-effect of heparin can be heparin induced thrombocytopenia. So, platelets drop, never seen it. I think it’s impossible at the doses that we give, but to be totally safe and conservative check a CBC after a couple of weeks. But never…

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Would they notice they are bruising though with thrombocytopenia?

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

What you’ll see is very interesting when you give heparin, is that, okay, your body’s clotting everywhere. So, it’s laying down fiber and breaking it up. Now if it’s just there, the test can be negative because it’s measuring actually the body breaking it down. And so, some people will bruise initially, because what happens is you’re using up all your, it’s like a mini DIC, like people get in sepsis , they use up all their coagulation factors. So, they bruise wherever you hit them and you give them a little heparin. So, for a little bit, couple of weeks, maybe, maybe sometimes longer, they bruise easier, but then it goes away and gets better because now they’re not activating their regulation and they’re not using up their regulation factors. So, they’re ready for you if you need them, but they’re not clotting everywhere. 

And with the plasmapheresis, I remember I went up to, Isaac in Santa Rosa, I forget his last name, but, you know, and I did it and he’s like, I’ve never seen, you know, he has a container, the gunk that’s filtered out. He goes, I’ve never seen anyone with this color. You know, it’s like, I’m always the unusual one, you know. But then I went to the hospital and asked, I want to get one plasmapheresis, how much would it be? And they go, well, I don’t know, but it’s 80% off. I’m like, okay, great. How much, well, how much is that? He comes back and says, you know, $38,000. And I’m like, okay, 80% off of that. And she goes, no, that’s with the 80%. For one treatment I was paying, I don’t know, $1,500 or something like that before. So, it’s crazy, but a lot of great, great treatments like that. And, you know, plasmapheresis is nice because it, you know, it will pherese out auto antibodies, all these, you know, inflammatory cytokines and things like that. So, I love that treatment. I got it down also with, Omar Miralis that Lyme Mexico. 

He has some great treatments down there and he can do some things that we can’t. So, you know, the way the FDA is looking, they’re trying to ban, you know, if something works and is totally safe, they want to ban it. You know, they’re really the enforcement arm for big pharma. And so, I was thinking we’ve got to get a bunch of doctors together. I probably shouldn’t be saying this on the air, but, and then getting a big ship and going 14 miles off the coast and practicing medicine there, you know. Yeah, because you know, people are moving, I’ve talked to so many integrative doctors that are like looking for places to move to other countries. It’s scary, and even just with the censorship of medical knowledge, you know, you can’t say the truth. That’s scary. Yeah. Let’s see. I know we, wrap it up, we’ve probably been talking for a long time. How long have I been going? Let’s see. What’s these skin peptides. We’ll just go there. We’ll end there and wrap it up.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

I mean, for skin, I love GHK-Cu, that’s like a no brainer for skin, right. And the BPC, it gives you a nice glow and I think it helps with collagen and elastin. It definitely makes my Botox last longer. So, I like it for that. I think my, a lot of patients with just like psoriasis auto-immune skin, they get better, but you know, something Jim Levow taught me, I thought was genius, was a lot of those skin issues are fungal related, systemic, you know? And you’ll see it, if you do mycotoxin testing or if you would just check Candida to antibodies or, you know, the basic spittest for Candida. So, people…

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. And they, you know, it’s interesting. If you have a chronic infection, don’t go to infectious disease, they won’t treat it. And they’ll say, when you mention, you know, oh, stomach candidiasis, oh, the person would be in the ICU, you know. Yeah. And that’s not how medicine works. It’s not black and white where you’re here, you’re fine, but that’s how they treat it. So, you know, as you know, for our lab values, they take 95% of the people on it, the highest and lowest two and a half percent are considered abnormal. And so, if you’re the lowest 3%, oh, you’re fine. The lowest two and a half, oh, you’re abnormal now. Also they take a bunch of people and the labs have to do their own reference ranges. And so, they take sick people, obese people, you look at testosterone levels, the reference range 10 years ago was much higher, 10 years ago that even higher. And they just keep lowering the reference range. And so, now a person is like a nine year old and they say, oh, you’re within the normal range.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

They do that with testosterone. It’s crazy. So now, I use Empire Labs, they’re out of New York, they’re great to my patients. So, they’re saying now that a testosterone for man is 175 to like 850 or something. 175! I’m like, there’s women that I treat that are 175. They shouldn’t be, but they are.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And they just keep trying to demonize testosterone, all these studies show, yeah, low testosterone, increased heart disease, I mean, increased cancer, you know, so many issues that grumpy old man syndrome, or we can talk about erectile dysfunciton. And also, as you get older, you downregulate your receptor. So, really you can argue that you should have higher levels. You know, I’ll treat some men in their sixties. Their testosterone level’s, 600, 700, but they have all the symptoms, right. So, I’ll say therapeutic trial, testosterone. I like a combination of nandrolone that doesn’t convert to estrogen or DHT, but go on that, give it a shot. And they go, oh my God, I’m a new person, but they were totally mid normal, but 20 years ago they’d be low, you know. And oh, diabetes, blood control, depression, with low testosterone, same with women with low estrogen. And, you know, they let these women be… well, it’s natural. Yeah. You’re going to get dementia. You’re going to get heart disease. You’re going to be depressed.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

So, I’m 47 and my hormones are changing. I can tell, like I can see my estrogen dipping. I’m watching my labs going, oh my God. And you just don’t get as much pleasure out of life. You’re not as happy. You don’t sleep as well for sure. But your mood. And I’m like, no wonder, like if I didn’t know any better, I would think right now I need Lexapro. Well, so I just started some estrogen, you know, and my period’s are regular, a regular gynecologist would say, you don’t need estrogen. Everything’s fine. But I do, like my brain for sure. My skin, but my mood.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Then they want to give you birth control pills.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Yeah. In your forties.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

That’s because they do that and people go, oh, I’m good. You know, I just, basically, I have my period ever, dah, dah, dah. Increasing clotting factors, increasing inflammation, it’s lowering your testosterone, your cortisol, your hormones, it’s lowering your growth hormone. And if you want to cause cancer, take a progestin. If you want to prevent cancer, take a progesterone.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

I love when they think the progesterone is the one that’s a progestin. And I’m like, no, that was that women’s health initiative study, you know, it was the Prempro causing the cancer.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

And so, I did the review, the bioidentical hormone debate, which looked at their screen progestins and progesterone. The problem is they’ll use progestins in a study called progesterone, but you look at every head to head study, and also mechanistically that the progestins like Provera was approved because it protected the uterus like progesterone, which it does, but it has the opposite effects on the breasts. The progestin’s cause cells to divide and stimulates multiplication, progesterone prevents it. So, right there, very different. Heart disease, the progestins dramatically increase heart disease, progesterone prevents it. 

And anytime you take oral, you can take oral progesterone, but oral estrogen, you know, they gave them Premarin, which supports estrogen as a quinalin, known carcinogen, and they, you know, huge clotting factors. Now, even if you take bioidentical orally, you’re going to increase your clotting factors, some but not as bad, but when you do transdermal, let’s say someone’s had a pulmonary embolism, don’t take estrogen, which is wrong. You can show the studies, if you do transdermal, no increase in clotting or PE actually a trend to decrease, you know, because they’re already going to get less cardiovascular disease, but, that’s been going on for a long time. I could talk to you forever.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

I know, you’re such a genus.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Oh, same here. I love talking with you.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Are you going to have like a series of lectures that you post, like on your website. I think you should do that.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. So, due to overwhelming… I wasn’t going to do it, but I have so many lectures on peptides, we’re going to start a peptide training course, after awhile. I have a couple of webinars and then kind of do more of a deep dive type thing. I don’t want to make it where… I want to make it affordable, and you know, just, I worried about time, but if when we get done with the summit, I’ll have some time. But yeah, so I think it’s kind of my duty whatever to give back.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

I I think it is. So, thank you so much for having me on.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Yeah. And thank you so much, I know you’re in such demand and you get all the celebrity patients, which you can have, but, yeah, you’re just on the cutting edge. I love your passion. And I know how many patients you’ve helped. And I don’t know, I’ve heard of a lot of them and that’s just a tiny fraction. Just hear so many good things and just easy going person humble,

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Alright stop.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

I award you with this trophy.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I’d like to thank the academy. I think it’s getting late. This is one of our last lectures. So, no, thank you seriously. And for what you do and wonderful.

 

Kent Holtorf, M.D.

Well, we really appreciate your knowledge and for sharing with everyone. So, thank you.

 

Elizabeth Tringali PA

Great. Thanks so much. Alright.