Breaking Habit Loops: The Fastest Way to Change Your Life (Part 2)

Opening on curiosity and mystery 0:00

And we always ask people this, what are you curious about? What am I curious? About? I'm getting, well, enfoldment. So there's this word called enfodement, which I learned, or which is, I am curious, about the next moment. I used to have an addiction to trying to predict the future and I let it go. And sometimes I saw the feature before it happened, but sometimes they're like, yeah, it's more fun when you don't need to. Like, What if you could be, have a relationship with mystery? Unlike you ever have.

Whoa, that was an interesting. That's animism, by the way. Sound bad. Yeah, it was a sound. Well, something that anim, I don't know if we want to know animus is where the universe drops in something weird. So maybe that. Like I, we didn't plan that that's a God wink right there. Maybe I'm supposed to end with that? What if everyone could have a safe, but curious relationship with mystery. Welcome to the To Curious MD podcast. I'm Dr. Ali Ahmed. And I am Dr Surya Rapan. With the wisdom from holistic, alternative and these conventional medicines, we are here to challenge the status quo.

We're curious about the connectivity and complexity between diverse fields of knowledge as a relief to consciousness, chronic illness, mental health, resilience and beyond. learning more about the art and science of healing, or listening to stories of extraordinary healing. You're in the right place. Let's dive in. That's exactly what, you know, authors and psychologists like Ian McGilchrist are talking about when they're talking the master and the emissary, the intuition and rational mind. Like I love how this concept gets reiterated and kind of reified each time because there is a construct for this and you said it so beautifully, the Vajrayana Buddhists studied their own mind and they discovered something about it that then got codified and held in practices of discovery that if anybody were to engage in, they would find was true for themselves.

So we're talking about that level of truth that we can all reach. And what Ian McGilgrise kind of talks about is that in our brain, he maps it from the anatomy, the neuroanatomy of how our mind works.

Master and emissary: intuition and rational mind 2:12

And how our brain is kind of organized left side, right side. You know, kind just like how we make language and how make meaning and where memories are stored and whereas that sense of self and really understanding it as the connection between the left and right brain. The corpus callosum, the thickness of it actually indicates good health or not. That's one of the kind of, one is the connectivities between the left and right. And so language and meaning and that flexibility of language of meaning.

Sometimes when we can kind get stuck in one kind meaning, and never kind connect to that larger sense that you're talking about. Because in that a priori place is where all exists. So you can think from that and everything is available. But if you've never been there, and then you don't even know how to access it or invite it to exist. So that corpus colossal connection he talks about is that, and I love how he talked about the master and the emissary because it talks the power differential. So the master is that other space, which is intuition or that larger sense of that place.

And then the rational mind, the material, that goes out every day into the world, learns things and programs and does everything. has a model of the world that needs to come back and actually connect with that larger kind of universe of information and also hear what fits what doesn't what feels true what is true like you just you know mentioned like there's some things you're just like oh yeah this is track You know, you've got to have that discrimination, but then there's those gems that you pick out.

And I love how you mentioned that there were a few gems rose for you to the surface. Can you describe what those may be or what are for who or may have evolved over time? Okay. Yes. When, which dimension did you want me to cover that into? The dimension of? I mean, I could give you some categories. I know, right? Do you wanna talk about shadow? Star Wars, like shadow, individual shadow collective are just, or even human flourishing tools for us to move forward. And I can take it in a lot of different directions.

This is what I love about these conversations is, you know, and you had mentioned a road through that was really important, which I think, because we're talking about discrimination and we were talking this master and emissary and the mystical versus the material, I also think that also maps onto this. And you talk about how it helped you just deconstruct the met material and mystical and why that's important for the work you're doing now, but also to the greater collective. How does that sound?

Yeah, I'm getting to, my intuition has got three things that has not told me that I just got to go through and there's going to come to me. The first one is about our relationship to the word magic. Okay. Magic. First off, we're going bring three subtle distinctions to magic first off. Nobody knows how anything exists. There's only theories. Nobody knows how to get out of the chicken and the egg problem. I don't think you can solve it. Whatever version of existence we have, it's default. Well, I describe it as magic because I can't come up with a better way.

So that's magic. Number one is magic is the only thing that is real from my opinion. Now, in a grounded sense, I have discovered cause and effect is also real. And it turns out, magic for me is just also like things that are like I don't know how that happened.

Magic, metaphysics, and human flourishing 5:57

I always remember my language, but how did that happen yet? but i discovered i'm interested my mind's interested like i wonder if what's something else is going on so when i started looking and opening up to my, mind into different ideas like a deeper metaphysics something opened up for me that like, a lot of the things that the mystics were doing and as i understood psychology deep psychology, deep energy, and deep esoteric wisdom I started to say like, oh, I think I could see how these things come together and I can actually describe it.

So practical magic to me. I actually have to go back to things. What I want to talk about, some pretty I feel very confident about my formula for human flourishing. that I think just hangs by itself. And I have some stories about what I thinks happened in metaphysics, like how life actually unfolded, that support my theory of human flourishing that in itself are a little bit harder to prove, but I, I thing it makes sense. So let me just tell that story really quickly because I that like somehow the universe wants to know what existence is.

It's the only thing that makes any sense to me. So after I gave up on like how can they exist some part of me is like well now you've got some closure on that It's magic. Well, does there a question being asked? I'm like, you don't know the first question is gonna be like what is existence because I don' know how you ask another question Do you taste it? So it's gotta taste so then i'm like i don't know i'll go to the bible maybe they got the first step right let there be light so turns out i can make that work in the buddhist view and in that christian view at the same time for the western let their be like the Buddhist i think the final that says let's say everything's like a mirror mirror like awareness so god's looking in a marionese he's light And then here's the thing is he's a consciousness.

So he has he sees the light and he is already having reactions to it. It's telling you that in the beginning, there was just a mirror that had perspectives. And as soon as it has one perspective, that has another perspective. That's all you need to create all of existence. Once you have that, that mind can then make choices. You know, and doesn't it say in the Bible, like I made you in like the same way I may be in my image. Well, what is that image? It's consciousness. The same global metacognition is the consciousness that we are, you know might have.

different roles like metacognition might have to upload and download from the souls of like a giant AI and figure out, well, she's a lot of luck going on to figure it out. So he's, you know, that's why that intelligence wants to get this the bigger wisdom out to as many nodes as possible. Because, uh, You know that so I think it's about education. Let me jump in. Am I being coherent here? You are. And when you said education, you and I are tracking because there's a moment in every human's life when that happens and it happens at a certain age where that consciousness reflecting back to itself occurs.

You may remember that moment. When does a baby actually become aware that it is aware? you know, is an actual step in human development of, you now, like, oh, all of this is making sense because when you're a baby it's just disjointed lights and sounds and sensations and you have, your processing of what all that means is coarser. and you don't really have the language to explain it to yourself, which is why everything's very embodied and needs to be very somatic and driven by voice and, you know, good environment versus, okay, now you're differentiating a little bit more.

You actually have words to describe your experience. And I remember this. I remembered because I had to figure out a lot of things on my own growing up. And I remember feeling things dropping in as I poked at reality. You know, like reading a word and being like, breaking it down into syllables and going, I don't understand what this word is, but I see it every day. And, and I feel like there's a way to say it that is not how, because it was the word natural. But when you break it, down I was like it's natural, what is natural?

I've never heard that word. And I remember the moment of click that happened when my auditory and my visual kind of went, this is the same thing. And, I remembered that age. I Remember that the bottle I was looking at, you know, there was like a moment Of crystalline. Wow. You know? And that happens. That's how we learn things if we pay attention to what's happening, right? That metacognition that you talked about. Yeah. Metacignition. A lot of people say that's the most kind of intelligence is medical ignition.

Yeah. I remember my son at the time was I think two and a half or three and he said something would made me kind shake my head and go, oh, you finally figured out that you're conscious. Like there was like this moment where language he was, like, what is this we're in or something very innocently said. And he's been very aligned in that way ever since, like very able to kind of be like, yeah, and start from that place. Like I love when young, in young kids and, you know, so I think what I'm making the case for is that in childhood, we are always in the a priori space.

We're more in touch with that a priority space, And we start to lose it as identity builds and we kind of step out of it more and maybe lose creativity

Ego, metacognition, and habit loops 11:42

or stop playing maybe and creating and imagining, right? I think artists hold onto that space and have a lot of good relationship with that. Yeah, I agree with that. I just want to re-contextualize that what happens is let's talk about the word ego. A lot of people make ego, it just means sense of self. That's literally what it means. It turns out I think the healthiest view of ego is to understand there's any description between your observer and what you're describing that you are making a sound.

So like even saying Like black is black. It looks like a certain color. That's a sense of self. And that's ego. Like, that is not how most people think about it. But literally, why do I want I think it's actually really important because people It's like, whoa, he's way off. It is not really that. And so many people get lost in that and it obfuscates their ability to see what's really going on. You really have to make big change and this is about really supporting. I really want to support. The field cuz I've been and I been immersed in transformation in my whole life, you know both from a study through my own two clients, You know all kind of professions all I study literally you really want to notice the very details of you your habits and like You know, you're not here to make them all bad or wrong.

You're here. To notice the subtle habit loops, habits of mind to certain sense comes in. And you interpret it and you automatically go here, here here is that which is the loops? Those feedback loops that are getting in your way and which of which new feedback moves do you need to create to move towards your dream? That's the game you want to play. It's not some big curse or metanarrative. It was like blah, blah. Whatever. Cause it's nice. Never any of that. Really just comes down there. What do you, what patterns are you replaying?

It could be like have depth to it. Like it might be lodged pretty deep because traumas got a lot goes into lots of things. So I'm not going to say everyone can snap their fingers and get rid of something fast. However, this is universally true. Everyone to matter how, whether it was a short one or a big one. Is to get into the details the more specific you can describe at the More layers of your all of you're my body soul spirit intuition like how it plays out in the Details and then get clear where you want to go and which habit loops do you need to?

Get rid of which ones you got to combine like that's where that for the rubber meets the road, and I'm really nerdy and geeky about how to deconstruct that. And my vision, I've committed to this with all my thing is to work with other people, and just up level each other, maybe even great an AI and get some best practices. But my intuition is there's a lot of people have different ways of doing it. and some people like I think I come, okay, have discovered some cool stuff, but I know other People have also done cool style.

I'm I know enough to know I have some offer, but I'm also humble enough. I haven't I am here to learn. So how do we create like a teamwork? I was excited about having a team work. This is what we do have. We come back to measurement. And I want to work with people who have enough self esteem is like, okay, and like enough humility is that great. Well, find out we might find that we're best in the world for with a certain demographic where we suck with these other people. You know, I don't know what's gonna happen.

But just by creating more sharing of measurement and doing and working as a team, we can all up level each other if we could create a community of safety and trustful processes. So that excites me because I think that can really, you get that organization right and with the right core leadership and right measurement protocols, it can create really a supportive system. especially as people are starting to bring things together like we're bringing in state training and east and western and integrated medicine with western medicine.

I think that none of them are bad. i think they all have something to offer each other but we gotta create a space where they can People can hear each other and measure. I love that. You have just described in a nugget what ketamine therapy is. It's just traveled through all of it because you started with the ego. What is the Ego? It is a construction of what we call actually corresponds to the default mode network in the brain. And that's the network that gets kind of destabilized or people say it gets quiet and it actually kind goes offline a little bit.

All those things are true. And the sense of self dissolving or that ego death that people talk about in that psychedelic experience and how that mystical experience that stepping into just kind feeling that happen at least once feeling it loosen is a learning experience for the brain. And then you're talking about, okay, what do we do now that we've kind of crossed that threshold and we have entered into this new state of neuroplasticity because that's when the the bring gets into neuro plasticity, because all of a sudden the signal has been sent to the entire being that says something new is afoot.

there is new energy here to drive. And now there's availability, you know, with ketamine, it's two days with mushrooms, that's a week with LSD, a couple of weeks with Ibogaine. It's actually like, I don't know like two to three months. We're talking about this state that we can hold. the brain in so that we can just kind of accelerate this transformational process. Because there's the pace at which it goes if you're doing it for biohacking and improvement in leadership, but there is a pace that which needs to go when you have treatment-resistant depression, OCD, because those are also disorders of an overactive default mode network.

So, you know, what you're talking about with peeling away of the different layers of a default mode network, that is an entire, like you were saying, it's a network of meaning. And so in transformation, how do you move through those shifts in ways that don't tax the system, create stress? create trauma instead of actually heal trauma, right? So there's that also, the gentleness I feel and just the care given to like, oh, this is important to pay attention to. I really love ketamine. It's a really powerful disassociate and it can take you to the state that meditators go there.

Ketamine, neuroplasticity, and transformation 18:30

And I'm actually a fan of both as the fastest path because one, like people learn to repetition. and logic, but also they learn through extreme experiences. And actually, I think if you can take people to these spaces using breath work and entheogens, whatever, ketamine, or whatever the different kinds of things, you have ways to name it and make people, by naming it, like I can help people name a state they're in and show people how to use that state or suggest things they are going to have to discover for themselves.

But it helps. For a newb to be around someone who knows that territory, like the back of their hand. So they don't like freak out because you can freak. I mean, uh, I like, you could go to like a. Like a state where there's no you, there is no, it's just information. And you realize even the sense of self as a construction and not like freaked out. Because you have to have the right skills. but that actually is kind of like a really calm space where you let more of this free energy come in. You have to learn to trust this energy.

It's because your sense of safety is not built around it. it's actually built to avoid some things you're afraid of, right? And so you actually, for those who want to take the journey to its furthest place, it is about a relationship between your current safety sparts, which you are going to have get to know really intimately, I recommend the book, The Five Personality Patterns by Steven Kessler is really good. Andy Ram's really. But there's some archetypes that really help you get there faster.

And you gotta, you got to know those parts and you've got a notice deeper sense of self and they gotta work together. In this part also have to wait, where are you going in life? What are doing? Because where you want to go isn't people might think, Oh, enlightenment's always the same. I, there are some things that I think are similar, like. becoming the space because you want to be in a sense of self that's bigger than just you. A lot of people's like sent themselves in their head and they're just thinking, how can I how?

Can I do good for me? How can avoid my biggest fears unconsciously? They don't even know that I need to control most of the thing. Most people are just trying to avoid things. This is where I want. To come back to this is what I wanted to go before, because this about magic and laws. So I believe that if you're if your primary goal is to know existence, I your feedback on this. then as a kid, when you decide like, I don't know, i don' want to be with Shane at level nine and I'm going to build a leaving pattern so I avoid it.

Are you doing God's work? I mean, yes and no, because you're kind of skipping something, but also you wanted to know that you skip something, right? That's part of being alive. So I think it's both. But I actually think this understanding that we're here to know things and oh, geez, we skipped something. Maybe we have to go back because once you go and integrate that thing and you become whole again. There's all these things that didn't integrate as kids or past laws or whatever. Like, why did things go down like that?

And some part is still stuck there. And when we actually bring this higher energy, this better discernment plus more energy. We can integrate all that stuff and then we can return to now and be more effective in the now. So I think there's this whole, we talked about skills of getting whole. Getting whole to me has three primary vector zones. One is like, how do we get hold with stuff that's happened to us personally and resolve traumas and anything that overwhelmed us? Does it make sense yet? How do you get make since of how life is organized?

Why is it like this? why does Hitler have to come, you know, like people stuff like that puzzle people. I don't know why God made these choices. Why does he give some kids cancer? I just can't get over it, you know what I mean? But everyone's got their stuff, right? And then how do we get along with each other? So what if all three of those could be resolved through more intelligence, use of energy, intelligence to have These are known things. I mean, I already know how to do all that and even if I don't know other people who know stuff like I Don't feel like because then we then get everyone's energy Returning to presence with really good conflict resolution skills and I believe the species will just that's it.

That's all we need We just need to resolve conflict better. So I Yeah, we just need to get better at dialogue. That's so true. I love how you get to the simple pithy statement because I think that's the activating part, but you distill it down. And what really came to me as you were talking was Enneagram and five personalities, like how this happened unfolded for me was I was going through burnout and of course, And I decided to do a master's in medical education where that includes some leadership training.

And there's this one semester in which I got to kind of know my archetype, get to know myself really just kind with my colleagues, with a sense of like, who am I as a teacher? What's my teacher identity? And it was done in such a wonderful way and it really unlocked something. It really brought along kind like a piece. It's like, this is how I've careened my way across the globe and landed up here. It can seem very disorganized and very haphazard when you think of migration and trauma and this and that.

The story can get real dark. And then I find myself kind of on the redemptive end of that story going, I'm exactly where I am supposed to be. Nice. Because all of these things have unfolded and there's no way I could have predicted it.

Wholeness, conflict resolution, and dialogue 24:18

But there's no doubt in my mind that I followed that intuition each time. And even through my mistakes, like you said, you're holistic, own your mistakes. It's like, I made them. They're there for a reason. That was a hard-won lesson. Don't you take that mistake away from me. You know? That's also what I want people to really get real loose with judgment. I feel like so much of what we do in ketamine therapy is like we hear that judgy voice and we're like, I'm not that voice. Whose voice is that?

When did that internalize? And as kids, we internalized the voices. A lack of self-compassion. Right. And that breeds a lack self compassion because that inner judge voice may have been the voice that kept you safe. The voice of somebody who loved you, but maybe the words were harsh. You know, just the things, like you're saying, the thing we carry that we don't need to anymore because we're here now and there's none of that. So as you kind of going forward, I feel like, yes, we've built up a lot, but you know you slow it down, you bring it to the kind like the piffy takeaway.

Jonathan, Moza, and Derez, were kind heading into the end of our conversation. What are you curious about? And we always ask people this, what are you curious about? What am I curious? I'm getting, well, enfoldment. So there's this word called enfodement, which I learned, or which is, I am curious, about the next moment. I used to have an addiction to trying to predict the future and I let it go. And sometimes I saw the feature before it happened, but sometimes they're like, yeah, it's more fun when you don't need to.

What if you could have a relationship with mystery? Unlike you've ever ever. Whoa, that was an interesting. That's the animism by the way sound bad. Yeah Well, something that and if we don't know animus is where the universe drops in or something weird So maybe that like like I we didn't plan that that's a God wink right there So, maybe I'm supposed to end with that fault. What if everyone could have a safe but curious Relationship with mystery and how what would that change if we went from anxiety to safe?

Loving of mystery, and I have some ideas on how I get there, but I don't know of which ones will work So here's the other thing is I am super passionate about everything I talked about and i'm in a new phase of life where I want i'M looking for All kinds of new people, collaborators, new students. I'm here in LA. We're talking about like people who are in the healing space who want to mix to it very safely. But I think there's some patterns to be revealed around conflict resolutions. So I am open.

mozenter.com mozerter at proton mail whatever if you're interested if what i've said is exciting to you reach out maybe just have a quicker zoom and we'll see what goes i'm in the a new connector phase so iIm curious to see how the mystery is going to bring the most amazing fellow god friends to both to me but also to u and i in la area so anyways i'll leave it there I love the mystery. Beautiful, beautiful. Thank you. I mean, this has come up a couple of times and it's been mentioned by many people in the last couple days.

Curiosity, collaboration, and closing reflections 27:48

And I think this is a reminder from you is when you step into the Mystery, the Mysteries meets you Like, you get met halfway, and you just brought that energy. It's like, I'm just stepping out and I am trusting, And I have this deep trust in the universe to meet me where I, am. And you also mentioned something that our patients really mentioned. You've got to get really clear on your intention. And the more you can distill your intention, the most you make it clear, your vision, it comes true. And this is something I remember discovering about myself at 15, is that I was very good at imagining, I very at future casting, and I would watch something come true just because I had wanted it to.

And it convinced me on some level that there were some witchy vibes here that, you know, that we possess. And I think the teenage brain is one of those that kind of is very pliable and powerful. Sometimes we discover those things in that time. So I'm curious to have this conversation in person. And in group, and in Los Angeles, I think we are very excited to be in the midst of a lot of intersections of the creative communities and the science communities, the arts community, you know, like, then the healthcare community.

The healer space. And I that's what's really coming to me is, if the universe is listening to our podcast today, Yeah, I love what you just said. And yeah, there was a project where something where we both went to where he may be mad or the lamps thing. Yeah. and I worked with them to create the marketing. It was interesting. I think we came up with seven distinct groups. So I mean, you named them all, which is fascinating because we didn't, we don't talk about it, but like with LA we are at this intersection of like healers, like researchers.

You know, people who are into the creative, like film, music, you know animation, sound, psychedelic research. So it's like a lot's happening here. But yeah, I believe the arts are a big part of this transformation. I think there's a logical skill thing, but I also think we need a new culture that co-arises with it. so I'm excited for all those communities to come together and play together. Absolutely. Here we go. And with that firehorse energy, thank you so much, Jonathan, for this wonderful conversation.

We did it, we landed it. It was perfect. All right. Thanks for joining us on the Two Curious MD podcast. We hope today's episode inspired you to ask new questions and explore fresh perspectives. we challenge you ask us those unasked questions that you're curious about in your medical practice, condition, health and wellness. If you enjoyed the podcast, don't forget to subscribe, share it with somebody just as curious and leave us a review. It helps us keep the curiosity alive. post or comment with a question or curious inquiry that you have and seek to explore or learn with us.

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