Harmonize Your Brain-Gut-Pelvic Axis For Vibrant Libido

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

Thank you so much, Diane. This has been just pure joy. I’m learning so much as we’re going through, and interviewing these different experts has been pretty amazing. I went to medical school. I always wanted to help people, and I certainly did not want to be a gynecologist. My thought was, Who wants to look at that all day long? I know people always ask me this, but part of it is that it’s one of those stories that we always figure out, like why we’ve gone into things and have a passion. Looking back, I was the kid who, from the time I had my period, was always getting recurrent urinary tract infections. then, like as an adult, I had my own sexual stressors and dysfunction. I just fell into it as I was going through my rotations. I was like, “Oh, I like this. Now I don’t like that.” I started in general surgery, but I was the person who, when we were going on rounds, wanted to know more about the person, not just about their disease.

Somebody would have their appendix out, and I’d be like, “So how do you feel now that your appendix is out?” which is a waste of time in general surgery. I found that in gynecology I could have that deeper relationship with patients, which I like,d, and then in urogynecology, I didn’t even know what that was. There are only 1500 urogynecologists in the United States. Even when I came home and told my mom I was going to do like two more years of fellowship in urogynecology, her first reaction was, What is that? Is that like fancy gynecology, like European, like EuroDisney? I’m like, No, it’s a uro having to do with urology, like bladder and then gynecology combined. That’s how I ended up in there. Then, once I was in that field, I found out that there were a lot of doctors who were focusing on incontinence and prolapse, and we’re talking about droopy bladders and droopy uteruses, but not as many people who were focusing on vaginitis, recurrent urinary tract infections, or even more so, pelvic pain. I found myself having a lot of those conditions myself. So having gone through that, I was like, “You know what? I’m going to make this my focus and my passion.” So I was like, “If I can fix myself, I can at least help others on that road.” Sometimes it’s not always a good idea to fix it, like, Let’s get it to a better level. So even now, I’m still constantly searching for natural and effective ways to get people in my own life back. That’s how I ended up in this field.

Diane Mueller​, ND, DAOM, LAc 

I find it so interesting that there are only 1500 urogynecologists because, in my mind, those things are so closely related. It’s just that it’s a cool lead-in like that, that fact. What we’re going to talk about today is the link between the brain, the vagina, and the gut, because some of these things, like, “Oh, my gosh, only 1500 people are trained that way, are trained on this connection when it’s so obvious.” Let’s start talking about this connection—the brain, the gut, and the vagina—and let’s just take the big picture first, like setting the stage for us with how these three parts of the body are connected and why that’s so important for people to be aware of.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

It’s interesting because this is not something in traditional medicine or Western medicine that we tend to make a connection between. Taking a little step back is sometimes a blessing and a curse. I was trained as an osteopathic physician, so we’re in an osteopathic world. We’re always trained; everything’s connected. But I still didn’t even know that when I came out. It wasn’t a fast-forward, like years later. I was searching for, let’s say, specifically vaginitis. Why are my patients getting recurrent yeast infections? Why were they getting recurrent vaginal infections, and why, when I was giving them medicine, it wasn’t getting any better? I came by this connection backward because, like many doctors, I was focusing on where the symptoms were. I started doing microbiome testing of the vagina about 20 years ago, and there has got to be an answer here. Sometimes I just find out that it is more confusing than finding organisms, but I don’t know what they mean. It wasn’t until I entered the integrative and functional medicine world that they started talking about this gut-brain connection. When I went into gut-brain, then I threw in, “Wait a minute, let me start looking, into the vagina.” If it’s connected to the gut and I still don’t connect it to the brain then, and then all of a sudden one day there was a light bulb, and so you’re still going, well, “Wait a minute, I don’t understand that any of this stuff is connected.”

I always like to start with the gut. I know this has come up several times in my interviews at this summit. I know this is stuff that you look into. We know that 90 to 95% of our serotonin, our happy hormone, is made in our gut. We know that anywhere from 75 to 90% of our immune system is made in our gut. And so happy hormones, if we’re having anxiety or depression, so many times we focus on the brain, and that’s where things are coming from. But if we don’t fix the gut, fix the diet, and fix the inflammation in the gut, all the antidepressants in the world are not going to work. I started seeing this. It also comes with an interesting story. It also comes to me very personally. I found myself at age 41 having had a hysterectomy, and I was blaming all my symptoms on hormones. I was blaming a lack of sex drive and hot flashes, of course. Lack of sex drive, hot flashes, moodiness—I don’t know if I would have called it anxiety or depression. I was just pissed off at everybody all the time and flew off the handle for no reason. I was like, “Oh, it just must be that menopause.” Around the same time, I was getting sick all the time, had my tonsils out, and was like 42 years old. At one point, they had me see an immunologist, and an immunologist said, “You have a primary immune deficiency.” I’m like, “What the hell is that?”

I never learned about that in medical school. They were like, “Oh, it’s hereditary. It shows up in your forties, and this is going to be your life. You’re going to live your life on antibiotics.” You’re always getting recurrent vaginitis or recurrent urinary tract infections. You looked at me wrong. I got sick. This was right around the time I was entering the world of functional medicine. All of a sudden, one day I was treating patients for the stuff left and right and was figuring it out. They always joke about how the electrician doesn’t take care of the electricity in his own house. I wasn’t looking at my health, and I went, “Wait a minute, what is the commandant dominator here with all those things? I was blaming it on hormones and getting older,” which a lot of us do when I’m like, “Nope, it’s gut health.” So now, I was, like I said, getting recurrent urinary tract infections, vaginal infections, and yeast infections, and like constantly, I was swabbing the vagina, my own vaginal for microbes, and I’m like, “Why aren’t they getting any better?” So I forgot about that for a little bit. I started looking at the gut, and I did my gut testing, and I noticed that my gut was filled with yeast, and I was like, “Wait a minute. As women, the vagina, the rectum, and the urethra are so close together that it’s very easy for us to pass bacteria, no matter how clean we are.”

It just goes back and forth. I found out that once I started putting myself on this gut protocol, all of a sudden the yeast infections went away, and all of a sudden the urinary tract infections went away. Then I ended up going back to my immunologist and getting tested, and she’s like, I’ve got good news and bad news. She’s like, “The good news is your labs are all normal. She’s like, The bad news is, I have no idea why.” I went, and “I know exactly why.” So this is when this started being the approach that I was taking with patients. So even at that time, I was able to get off, and with my antidepressants, which weren’t working anyway, I started feeling the best I ever felt in my life. Like, no more anger, no more problems with sleeping. Now, I’m not saying that that’s the response that everybody has, but, wait a minute, there is something to this. I started doing this for the patients, and my patients were reporting an increase in their sex drive and an increase in mood.

Their hot flashes were going away, their vaginas felt better, and their bladders felt better. Then I was like, “Okay.” Then I was like, “Let me see. I’m figuring this out on my own. Let me go see if there is any data on this.” That’s where I went down the rabbit hole and found out some amazing research that was out there on that you can go either way. It’s where you start. You start the brain. You start with the gut. You start at the vagina. You can start anywhere and make the connection. But if let’s say, we started at the vagina, there was research out there showing that if the vagina bacteria was off, people were reporting in these studies a low sex drive. If we think about that process, we’re like, well, why? Why would that be in the body? The body is so incredible, and this makes sense. You’re going, Oh my God, why don’t we think about this years ago, body smart? It wants to survive. It wants to procreate. If the situation in the vagina is not ideal for procreation, the body is going to go.

All right, it’s not time to have babies, and your body doesn’t know; your brain doesn’t know the difference between wanting to have some fun or wanting to make a child. The body will then go, “You know what? It’s not time. It’s not a safe situation for us to have a baby. Let’s shut that process down,” and so we see in those individuals that now the hormones get affected, now their fertility gets affected, now their libido gets affected, and so everything shuts down. Because that’s smart. Because of what happens, it’s not to say that people won’t get pregnant during this time, but if they do, they’re going to be at a higher risk of that pregnancy. Having problems and miscarriages. I have a funny story. A good friend of mine was a nurse who was working with me, and she knew that I was testing people’s vaginal microbiomes. At this time, I still hadn’t made the connection. It wasn’t until I looked back that I was like, “Ha ha, look what happened.” But out of curiosity, I was like, “Hey, can you test my microbiome?” So we sent a swab off on her. Now her history shows that she had been with her ex-partner for six years, and they were having unprotected sex, a male; was the male partner’s female partner, unprotected sex.

She just assumed that she was infertile because, for six years, we had unprotected sex. They weren’t trying to have a baby, but they weren’t trying to. They just figured if it happened, it happened, but it didn’t. Needless to say, that relationship broke up for other reasons. Around that same time, we checked her microbiome, and of course, her microbiome was completely off. We did a bunch of things to rebalance her microbiome. Lo and behold, she started with a new boyfriend. Lo and behold, she got pregnant the first time they had sex. Now, meanwhile, I was like, “Hey, how do babies happen? You’re a nurse.” Oh, forget about the fact that STDs exist. But that’s a whole other conversation. She jokes nowadays that like I owe her, I should be sending her kid to college because I got her pregnant, and I was like, “No, now we know your microbiome is off.” It was stopping the whole process of reproduction and sex. Then, like, looking further into that data because you’re like, well, what about men?

We don’t have any. I’m sure there is a microbiome in the urethra, the male penis. We do know that there is a microbiome, a separate microbiome of the bladder, but we don’t have research showing right now that it affects sex, drive, libido, or fertility. But we do have tons of research connecting the microbiome of the gut to fertility, reproduction, and libido in men. Even for men, women, any gender, any ID, if the gut is off once again, this is an inflammatory condition that the body’s sensing, and, any time the body is stressed because of inflammation, it goes, “I need to hold on to all my reserves, and we’re going to put the things that are not needed to the side because it’s not the right time to be having a baby because the body doesn’t know if you’ve just been in some horrific accident or if you’re in a time of famine, it just goes like I am under stress and we’re going to stop everything.” I know that the gut microbiome comes up time and time again in these lectures. The other thing is that we always forget that the gut microbiome is a place where we make a lot of our neurotransmitters. Not just our serotonin, but some of our other neurotransmitters, like dopamine, are rewards, so if we’re getting those boosts of those feel-good endorphins and dopamine and serotonin, if we’re not getting those effects on the brain, then we just might also not like our partners that might affect our mood.

There are so many aspects. Then it becomes a circular pattern where the brain can now affect the gut and the vagina. If you’re stressed because you’re not having sex or because it’s affecting your relationship with your partner, now that brain stress is going to trigger more cortisol, which is interesting because we do have that course where we’re going to be talking about things, do stay tuned. We have some things coming up on the effects of cortisol and sex and sex drive. But if the brain is stressed and you’re making too much cortisol, you can’t have sex. Brains and stress coexist. Now we have this brain, the brain involved, and it just becomes the circular pattern that we need to have, like stop the madness.

Like, let’s get things on track. It’s tough because we’re living in a world where there are a lot of stressors and a lot of processed foods. Forget about going on antibiotics. The one thing that drives me crazy and I see happen all the time, and this is because western-trained doctors don’t know any better, is, let’s say you have a woman who has a urinary tract infection. More often than not, their primary doctors, who are not well versed in the gut-brain-vagina connection, often reach for ciprofloxacin centers like Cipro because it’s easy. But I’m like, “What? Why are we taking an atomic bomb when we need a sniper? We need the antibiotics, which are 100% bad. We need them, but we need the sniper. We need someone who’s going to go after the thing that’s causing the problem, not this giant atomic bomb. It’s going to kill everything around you—plants, animals, and other people.” So one course—in most cases, only three days of pills—but that one three-day course of ciprofloxacin can throw your gut microbiome and vaginal microbiome off for years.

I can tell you, I’ve noticed that I’ve gotten sinus infections, and I’m like, “Oh, don’t go. I don’t want to go on antibiotics.” I’ve tried not to. Boy, every single time I do, I know it’s going to be a recovery. I notice my mood changes and my sex drive changes, and I forget about the fact that everybody knows, like, the woman. If you go on antibiotics, your risk of yeast infections goes up. But it’s this that’s affecting so many other things.

Diane Mueller​, ND, DAOM, LAc 

Yes, we are our best test subjects. sometimes as docs like trialing the stuff on ourselves and as you’re talking about one of the things and you’re talking about like the survival and evolutionary mechanisms, one of the things I’m thinking about is the ph of the vagina and how the microbiome helps the ph and that helps the sperm survive is the proper ph. It brings me to something that would be useful to chat about, which is the type of person that I know we’ve both seen, which is the female who knows something is like saying off. It feels like she probably has some vaginal infection, and she goes to her classic gynecologist, where she winds up getting tested for yeast, BV, and FPI. like all the basic things that we do in the conventional world. She’s told, “Oh my gosh, you’re normal,” and she knows that there is some problem. I’m sure we have people listening to our summit in that category. Can you talk about that a little?

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

Yes.  What’s hard about that for patients is that there is also a lot of shame and guilt associated with this because their doctors are telling them they’re normal and it’s only because of traditional medicine, and I’m not saying I don’t mean to bash traditional medicine in Western medicine because we need it. If you’re in a car accident, you don’t want somebody going. Oh, let’s look at your gut health and where your levels of information are. Fix my broken leg like you took me to the E.R. But so, it’s just that they’re not looking in the right place. They’re not testing in the right place. So there becomes a mentality on the part of the patient, like, “I’m broken, I’m defective, I’m something, I’m dirty, and there is something I’m doing wrong.” When that’s not the case, I always say, It’s funny that we say that patients have this gut feeling because, once again, there is a gut feeling. They’re finding that these microbes are not only affecting our health, but they could be affecting our thought processes, too. But that’s a whole other lecture we can get. I can geek out on the microbiome, but there are often pitch changes. PH is the level of acidity or basicity of a fluid. So the vagina is very acidic. 

We wanted it to be acidic because that’s what keeps it healthy and helps fight away those microbes. It helps to keep the tissue healthy if part of it is some of all these things that can throw off the acidity or pH of the vagina: stress, medications, or products that we’re using. A lot of these washes, soaps, and detergents can be harmful to the pH of the vagina. There are things like our diets and our processed foods, and all these things can throw off the pH. Those things are easy to remedy when you’re pre-menopausal. When you’re in your reproductive years, that’s a quick fix. But using the pH as a barometer to know that, “Hey, there is something else going on,” because if the pH is off and that’s something, too, we have some information on how to do that testing. But if the pH is off, that’s one of your first signs that there is a problem. But as we get older, balancing that pH becomes a little bit different because we get shifts in hormones, and we need estrogen to keep the vaginal tissue healthy because estrogen makes the vaginal tissue grow. When we’re actively growing and sloughing off, like our skin and our body, when we’re constantly making new cells and our old cells are sloughing off, it’s the healthy bacteria in the vagina that will feed. I know sometimes that sounds gross, and people are like that, but it feeds on those sloughed-off cells. We’re working in conjunction with healthy bacteria.

We make healthy bacteria and present them in the presence of estrogen. We feed our healthy bacteria, but then all of a sudden we hit menopause and we don’t have as much estrogen, or perimenopause or pregnancy, or when you’re on birth control or when you’re breastfeeding—these are all states of low estrogen. When states have low estrogen, we’re not feeding our healthy bacteria. What happens is that our healthy bacteria die off. We starve to death. That’s where the gut microbiome comes into effect, because if there are bad bacteria, I hate to label them bad, but it’s not the bacteria that’s ideally meant to be in the vagina. But one of them comes in—a party.

All the bad guys get together, and they all come in. This is another thing. A lot of times, we’re treating women who say that they have bacterial vaginosis. We’re trying to find a medical school. Gardnerella is the cause of bacterial vaginosis. It’s not one bacteria by itself. This is why, often, when women are being treated for bacterial vaginosis, they’re given medicine, and they don’t always get better. then a couple of weeks later, it’s back again and again in medicine, and it’s back again. It’s because it’s just more than one guy’s party. Then there is one bad guy. We’ve got to try to fight. We’ve got to create a healthy environment for the bacteria to want to stay and create the environment to get rid of the bad guys. It’s a combination of those. MPH is a quick and easy home test that can be done. That would tell you that there is something that could be a hint or something that’s off-sounding

Diane Mueller​, ND, DAOM, LAc 

Just to make sure everybody’s clear on a couple of things you mention if you guys are like, “Oh, okay, Betsy said how she’s going to give that. We’re going to say something about testing this stuff.” Just look out throughout the summit and especially after the summit; we’ll give you guys information on things like how to get your adrenals tested how we can help support what these pH tests mean for testing and more. Just keep your eyes out for that. I feel like we should tell people next that a little bit more is needed to fix the guy. You have to fix the microbiome. But there are so many different ones because I know people are thinking, right, like, okay, well, I’ll just go down to my local CVS and pick up whatever probiotic they have. Let’s talk about how to fix theirs. What are the differences in probiotics? There are other things they can do besides what you already mentioned about working the gut to help with the population and the repopulation of the vaginal microbiome. We talk about that.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

Yes, definitely.   It’s a combination; not all probiotics are made equally. I see time and time, and I don’t want to throw any brands under the bus, but I’m going to bring the one that comes up time and time again because they’ve gotten good marketing. The marketing is on a line, is one that everyone’s like, I’m taking a line, I should be great. Or they’re—I’m trying to think—what is that there? There is the yogurt that everybody likes because Jamie Lee Curtis does the commercial for the yogurt, and everyone’s like, I’m eating this yogurt. What are the problems I see with that? They’re discovering now that they’re coming up with what microbes do. They’re finding that certain microbes are good for weight management. Certain microbes are good for pain perception, like, for example, acidophilus, which we often think about for the vagina and is one of the great lactobacillus bacteria. Acidophilus is one of those great bacteria that we find in fermented foods and probiotics, and that is good for vaginal health. But it’s also good for pain control because it affects our pain receptors. They’re finding out what microbes do. So I don’t think we have 100% figured out the amount of microbes because that’s where it gets confusing. After all, you’ll go to the pharmacy or wherever you’re buying your probiotics and you buy one.

It says it’s got like one, a billion, or a million colony-forming units, or you get the one that’s got 250, or there are prescription ones that go all the way up to 900 colony-forming units. It’s sometimes the ones that are like the what-like ones that are not enough. I tend to go shoot for the ones that are anywhere from 30 or higher. But I’m also specifically looking for ones that are female-oriented. That’s something that I’m in the process of developing for the pelvic floor store. We’re looking in the end to find that it’s not just taking one microbe, but used to be like just taking acidophilus. That is, microbes are like life. The more diversity we have, the more we thrive. Because I always think, How boring would it be if we were all like, Well, the same thing? They found that the more microbiome diversity you have in your gut and your vagina, the better. Also, now is not going to do you any good if you’re taking probiotics all the time and you’re not, eating fermented foods. I always try to get people to eat at least one serving of fermented food a day. That’s something people get me about now, but dairy’s hit or miss. If you don’t have a problem with dairy, I’m okay with the dairy, or there are other dairy versions, but the nondairy versions just don’t have as many probiotics as I like. But there are non-dairy options, so dairy. But there is yogurt. 

Diane Mueller​, ND, DAOM, LAc 

Second. Yes, you just disappeared. Are you still able to feel it? Still?

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

No, what happened? That’s here because I can see myself in the camera, but I can’t see.

Diane Mueller​, ND, DAOM, LAc 

Yes, it almost seemed like the camera got disconnected.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

All right.  Yes, so I know, like with dairy, some people get on me about dairy, but I’m like, you don’t have a problem with dairy. I have less of a problem with the yogurts or the fears because those bacteria will break down some of the milk sugar. but there are a lot of non-dairy options. We have kombucha, we have sauerkraut, and we have kimchi. We evolve, not have refrigeration. No, I’m not saying to get rid of your refrigerator. But we’ve evolved with bacteria, so we need to get more bacteria into our diet or take probiotics. But like I said, get one I am looking for now; there are so many choices of ones that have been specifically made for women’s health. I would say, at a minimum, get one that’s made for women’s health. As I said, we’re in the process of developing one right now for the pelvic floor storm. Let’s see when that comes out.

Diane Mueller​, ND, DAOM, LAc 

Okay. Exciting.  Another question everybody is having is: So you talked about one thing they can do to help with tasks and be aware of a problem? It’s like using pH for the vagina, but what about the tests that they should be doing? Like, how are people besides like, “Oh, I have some symptoms that I have low sex drive, right?” Besides the basic symptoms of things you’ve already talked about, how are they going to know that this is a root cause?

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

There are so many, which means this is an exciting time, and microbiome science is about to explode. seeped into the integrative and functional world, but from a general standpoint, it’s going to explode pretty soon. It’s highly recommended that people get this tested on their own. There are so many different companies out there that do gut microbiome testing. This is looking at stool testing, and we can see what’s present in the stool. It’s not just looking at the microbes; it’s going to look at inflammatory levels. Then we have the option of doing vaginal microbiome testing. I have a preference for some of the practitioner-focused testing because it’s expansive and gives much more information. Some companies do over-the-counter testing, where you, as a patient, order the test yourself. The only complaint I’ve seen from some of the home-based testing is that sometimes there is too much information. It can be overwhelming. I’ve had clients who’ve gotten that; they’ve ordered the test themselves but didn’t know how to interpret it.

It can be pretty scary when you get this test and you get all these things with these crazy names. I know a lot of us like to use Dr. Google. I get it. Dr. Google is excessive, but when you have one of these tests you’ve done and run yourself and Dr. Google, a couple of things happen. It can be terrifying because a lot of women will show up, and men will show up positive for something called mycoplasma and ureaplasma. If you go to Google that now, it will say it’s a sexually transmitted disease. I’m here to tell you yes and no. Yes, in that it can be passed between partners.

It’s like if you had a cold and you kissed your partner, you gave him your cold. But we don’t say that the common cold is a sexually transmitted disease. No. You don’t have to have sex to have mycoplasma in your ureaplasma. It is just a microbe that is out there. We don’t know where. Sometimes we pick these things up. So there are people who never had sex, or I’ve had widows who, years and years and years, maybe got from the past, maybe not. But we don’t want to treat that as something like an STD; in people and even STDs, we shouldn’t have the stigma because, something like herpes, one in three people have it. Not everybody expresses it. So I assume you got to take those results. If you go and get your results and do your testing, you’ve got to take that with you and take it to somebody who knows how to interpret it, because some microbes will also show up, and it will be like there is no research out there.

We’re finding microbes with this advanced testing. Nobody even knows. They don’t even have names for them. There are also bacterial vaginosis-associated bacteria, number one. two, they do not even give names to these things yet. It can be pretty daunting to do this testing on your own and not have the experience to interpret it. I caution people that, yes, those tests are a little bit cheaper, but it is probably better if you’re going to get one of those tests to work with somebody who can help you interpret it and how to fix it. Then, I like some of the more advanced practitioner tests that will give us not only what is there but also what those bacteria are sensitive to. Because if it is something we have to treat with an antibiotic, I’d rather do the sniper antibiotic and then give somebody the atomic bomb. That’s why I like some of the advanced tests better. We’re getting better and better with these tests every day. But there are so many out there, too.

Diane Mueller​, ND, DAOM, LAc 

I love those metaphors. You’re making me think of being in medical school. when we are learning different things and like, you’re fatigued, and all of these symptoms are happening because medical school is hard, and medical school is like Dr. Google is like, “Oh, I have that or I have that.” That’s good advice, and we’ve talked about a lot. I want to make sure that everybody just remembers that Betsy and I are going to be doing a master class for you all. If these things are coming up and you’re like, “Oh my gosh, I want to know more and how this’s my sexual health, ask those questions,” and we’re going to make ourselves available for you. Make sure you look throughout the summit for that master class to register for that so that you can ask us questions that I know you want to ask and anything else you want to make sure we wrap up with today and leave everybody with.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

I just think that’s, first of all, a great thing. I would take advantage of those master classes. I’ve done them before, and I’m looking forward to doing them again. They’re good.  It’s like you’re going to get your answers like you have the opportunity to ask questions. That’s a great opportunity. when it comes to health and wellness, there are so many different factors that we can’t always blame one thing. and we need to look elsewhere. I mentioned quickly about sexual health and the microbiome, but this is also something to take into consideration for hormones. In a lot of cases, people think that as we get older, hormones are the answer. If you go on hormones and they’re not working, one of the possible root causes may be the microbiome. It’s not that the hormones aren’t working, and it doesn’t always mean, well, then I just need more hormones, so we need to consider all these things. That may also be a factor. And you’re not broken; you’re not defective. There are solutions, and there are natural and easy solutions. You just need the right guides. That’s something; we’re here for that.

Diane Mueller​, ND, DAOM, LAc 

Yes. Such good wrap-up advice. I’m sure you guys have heard us both say a lot of times that information on everybody who’s speaking is in their speaker bio. You’ll see that for Doctor Betsy and her speaker bio. But can you remind everybody how people get a hold of you and what they do if they want to work with you as well?

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

Sure. We have tons of places that you can go. First of all, follow me on social media. Just find me by putting in Dr. Betsy Greenleaf (@drbetsygreenleaf). It’s in one form or another, as long as you’re kicked off of it. I’m again. That’s why I can’t give you specifics because they vary from time to time. There is also the pelvic floor store. We have a bunch of different pelvic health products from femversity.com, where I have my courses, and you can always look for me at drbetsygreenleaf.com. And I always forget to put the podcast; we got some of your parts, and right now we have the Health Explained Show, which is an internet show that you can find on wytv7.org.

Diane Mueller​, ND, DAOM, LAc 

Thanks so much for your time. Thanks for doing this summit with me. It’s been such a pleasure and what a great talk today. Thank you so much, Betsy.

Betsy Greenleaf, DO, FACOOG (Distinguished)

Oh, my goodness. It’s been awesome. Thank you.