How P*rn Addiction Rewires Your Brain with Dr. Trish Leigh | Ep. 154

Introduction to Porn Addiction 0:00

porn sites are visited more in a day than basically all the other streaming services combined. How destructive is pornography to a relationship? Incredibly destructive. The research studies now show that pornography is involved in the vast majority of divorces and then it leads to ugly divorcings. People are busted having porn up like during Zooms. People then, you know, busted masturbating during zooms, they can't focus on their work because this is what the dopamine hijack does. This expert is Dr.

Trish Lee. Thank you. Dr. Trish Lee, a neuroscientist, brain mapping expert and author helping people understand how pornography can reshape the brain, relationships and sexual health. Pornography really distorts it. It's taking people away from relationships, and having them be stuck with their screen in themselves. Erectile dysfunction on young men. Is this more of a libido issue, or is it an actual blood flow issue? It is a... The program that I offer also comes with a large master class, 94 lessons and action steps plus 40 quick step action.

And my book is based on it. It's a good start. it has 54 brain hacks in it Sexualized social media is worse than porn itself. Especially young men and women are using social Media in a very hyper sexualized way. Is it all people that watch porn have an addiction to pornography? Well, I was gonna say like Welcome to another episode of a Healthy Point of View podcast. I'm your host, Sam Tahata. And as usual, we're bringing experts from all over the world to talk about health, wellness, beauty, and mindset.

Today's guest, We're going to be talking about porn addiction. Guys, if you don't have it, someone close to you has it. It starts from a very young age and with today's technology, it is a heck of lot more readily available than what it was when I was a kid. Guys, today's expert is a neuroscientist who specializes in cognitive health, who also specialises with neurofeedback and brain mapping, rewiring the brain to get rid of some of these addictions and address it. Today's experts is Dr. Trish Lee.

Thank you, thank you. Welcome. Thank you. Yeah, I'm psyched to be here. And I can't wait to dive in. Very important topic that I've spent. I pivoted all my work about a decade ago into pornography consumption, and I am ready to help people understand it. Absolutely. You know, being a business owner, you get to learn a lot of the backend stuff. One of things that you start learning is about SEO and how to really build up your brand. You start understanding about domain authority, right? And when I started trying to research domain authorities, where it's telling you where does your website rank when it comes to all the other websites around the world, the WWW, World Wide Web.

And I says, well, who the heck has the top domains? A lot of the domains are porno sites. Yes, they are. In my book, I have a book that is published through HarperCollins. It's called Mind Over Explicit Matter. First of all, it's all substantiated by science. And there's one study that talks about how porn sites are visited more in a day than basically all the other streaming services combined. Right like it lists them Netflix X, you know on and on so and now I'm sure with tik-tok and Instagram.

It's probably You know exceeding it, but it is a large number of views. Yeah, so so, with that said We don't need anyone to tell us right that that porn is an issue and I mean the data itself by the traffic that's going to these websites and the domain authority of something like pornhub or one of these other big platforms We know that it's an issue. So But before we get into the meat and potatoes doc I want I wanna get to I'm what the viewers and listeners to get To know you a bit better, right?

And this is we're gonna go way back from when you were like five years old, you know How was your upbringing and how did all of that lead to where you're at today? Yeah, cool. I love that question. Um, I grew up in a family of six kids. So I have three brothers and so basically three girls and three boys without, you know, without being ironic. And I have a stepson, so we have three boys and three girls. But growing up in a big family, I really I love to research, you know, cognition and thinking is one of the passions that I loved.

So I realized from a young age that like being smart and knowing a lot was a way that could be seen in my family. And so I kind of hit the books when my. Family was doing other things. it breeds low key dysfunction. So that's kind of a way that I found safety and security. I've always loved to read. When I find out about something that intrigues me, I'll find all about it. And that is what happened with pornography addiction. In the book I talk about the first client that had in my office. Now my practice is online, so it's global.

But I had an office and I have a client who was, you know, struggling with anxiety and with ADHD and was not getting better. On a given day, he blurts out to me. I watch porn, which I didn't care about it at that time, but I researched it and it blew my mind from a neuroscience standpoint and from an human health standpoint. So I dove deep into all of it, pivoted my work and not look back.

Dr. Trish Leeu2019s Background and Neuroscience Work 6:00

Wow man goes all the way far back That so you have a PhD in neuroscience, correct? I do I have two PhDs actually my first is in communicative disorders and so communication is I'm sure as we get going in our conversation I will talk about communication as one of the ways to solve the issue, and we can double back to that. And then the second is in cognitive science. Then I became a college professor. I was a College professor for a long time teaching in the areas of neuroscience. Basically, I become certified with all the neuro therapies that are out there at the time.

It was reduced to brain mapping and using EEG because of the level of data and measurement. And I've been doing that, you know, moving towards 20 years. I love the fact that you're using that type of those data points. Because when you look at like the world of psychiatry, it's more question based. Yeah, qualitative instead of quantitative. And the brain mapping is actually called QEEG, quantitative electroencephalogram. And that's a big message that I want people to know, especially if they're struggling.

Many of the people who come to work with me, they become hopeless. And I would love to dive into why, but they do become homeless. I'm able to show them the dysfunction in their brain very measurably. But I am also able pave the pathway and have data points of recovery and optimization on a neural level, which then shows up in the behaviors of mind and body. So let me ask you something with us being on that topic. A psychiatry physician, a psychiatrist, the prescription medications with no, in my opinion, not enough strong data of that patient.

That's my idea. So, I mean, there's a problem with that. There's huge problem. I talk about medication as a band-aid, right? Like, if you're bleeding out, you need bandages. You're bleeding out, you need bandages. But I think of my work, neurofeedback, neuromodulation technology, as stitches. So if you have a deep wound, You can't just put a bandage on it for the rest of your life. You have to take an x-ray, see how deep it goes. That's what I do in brain mapping. And then what neuromojulation, neural feedback does is it basically closes the gap until the system can heal itself, just like stitches, Now, you know, when it comes to brain health and cognitive health, it's knowing that there's certain deficiencies, even micronutrients deficancies that people can have.

And we're seeing a big uptake on different supplements that help with cognitive, health NAD, NR, NMN, which these are all part of your biochemistry, in which you can easily have deficiencies, especially as you get older. Are those things that you implement as well, too? Yeah. add something to that is that most, well, when we dive into pornography addiction, one point I would like to make is it results in autonomic nervous system dysfunction, ANS dysfunction. Basically, most people are in sympathetic dominance, meaning that their brains and their nervous systems never turn off.

which leads to depletion of those micronutrients. So I'm a huge fan of that in my own supplement regimen. When people come to work with me, the way that I approach it is I've put together a battery of supplements that is the most efficient for the people that work. If you saw my pantry, I have a dedicated shelf for supplements. I am sure you do too. It's a whole wall. But that becomes overwhelming for many people. What I've tried to do, especially for men's health, is to be able to put that into, you know, a one pager that is complex but simple enough for people to be able to follow.

Yeah. And yeah, that could definitely get very overwhelming for some people. I do have that shelf of supplements. Mine's actually like out on the counter. My wife hates it because for me, it's like if I don't see it, I forget to take it. So I leave it out. Then when people come over, she bought me like a little basket and I put it away. My husband's a chiropractor. You should see our pantry. We rebuilt it with an entire wall of just like shelves that are this deep where all you put is supplements and it's an entirely wall from ceiling to floor.

So you're married to a Chiropractor, which you know, they've studied nutrition and natural health. It's been part of my life. And actually going back to the question about like growing up, my family of origin, as we call it in the business, They are not health oriented. Nobody should be offended if they see this because they're not. But I became very health oriented from a young age, which led me into all of the modalities that you use. I've essentially used everything that your offer too. And from an autonomic nervous system dysfunction standpoint, it synergizes.

The mitochondrial dysfunction that NAD plus is so beneficial for is a result of brain dysfunction. So it all comes together. Yeah, absolutely. So for certain things, are you also doing like a vagus nerve reset? Any tools for that? I don't. And I can, but again, like I pared down what I use to neurofeedback and brain mapping on purpose. Like, you know, I have vagal nerve. Stimulators and all that night, but I believe in the modalities But and I don't you know, you offer the wide variety for me It creates like desider phobia or creates overwhelm for people and what happened in my not only like as a college professor, but also in my practice, I boiled it down to the one thing that I thought was the most efficient to affect change.

But then of course I help people with anything that they want. I just don't include it and make it part of my program. Yeah, and I get that because there's a lot of things that i do personally that, i just dont offer because it would be too much. You know, you kind of have to have your specialty. Yeah. I mean, I have all the stuff at home and in the office, you know, we have a red light. Have a full spectrum infrared sauna. You know I. All the things, but and then when I work with people, if I know a particular modality will be beneficial, then of course I suggest that.

Absolutely. So let's take a deeper dive in porn addiction, right? Now, are you seeing porn addictions, and I'm not familiar with what the data is, maybe you do, but is it more males or females? It is. It's far more male, almost double at this point, more than double, honestly. But some of the research shows like 48% and 91%, but I like to remind people, those are the people who are in a study and they're willing to admit that they consume pornography, right? So there's another study that shows that across the lifespan, that the vast majority of people at every age, from eight up, consume all the way up to the end of the life span.

Consume, mm-hmm. Eight is now the new when kids are exposed. And it goes back to what you already said. It's the three A's, accessible, affordable, and anonymous. And you know how this goes? I know it's happened to me. I'm sure it probably happened you. You know, you're searching something that, and then before you knew it, like porn pops up. You know, and this is how people are now becoming hooked at a very young age. They get them. Yeah, because listen, I'll tell you, 88 is very younger. I remember I'm pushing 40 now, so this has gone into the 90s, early 90's.

But when we had access to pornography, it was like, you know me and my friends are outside and we came across a Playboy magazine. Which if you look at a playboy magazine today, it's more of like art, you know versus what? pornography is it can't compare now and there's I refer to that as a classic wolf, You know, It would be like classic into mixed pornography addiction if it was like play boy magazines but now with high-speed internet and the reason that matters is because It's intensity and novelty at the click of a button.

And that's instant gratification, flood of dopamine into the system within two exposures. The system calibrates and creates neo homeostasis. So the homeo stasis, the baseline of that child has now been changed. I call that the seeds of addiction. If those seeds are watered over a lifetime, Essentially the neural pathways brain development it all becomes maladapted To need high levels of dopamine

Brain Mapping, Supplements, and Treatment Philosophy 15:00

from the source from which it found it So are these kids from that young age are they becoming sexually active at that age as well? No, actually people are less sexually active than ever. Really? Isn't that wild? Because it is such a distortion of healthy sexuality. So people, the dopamine from a real life sexual experience cannot compare to that of pornography. Is they're not getting the same type of pleasure you would say? Yeah, so it results in pleasure, but dopamine is actually the neurochemical of pursuit.

Pursuit of a reward, which then is linked to pleasure that is link to sexuality. But it is the pursuit and the anticipation of it. We have a generation of young men who have erectile dysfunction. what I call sad sexual arousal dysfunction because the dopamine receptors in the reward center and circuitry are desensitized. Then they need very high level stimulation from porn. Like if you think about it, a sexual relationship with a partner that you have to talk to and be vulnerable and get them on the same page on what you wanna do, that is not at all what happens when you click a button and you can It's fantasy, you can pick whatever you want.

It requires zero effort, it's instant gratification with no effort instead of delayed gratifications with either a little or a lot of effort. That's the difference. So then the brain becomes desensitized. the person can no longer feel pleasure or become aroused enough to be with a human partner, which of course leads them back into more pornography. So less people than ever are having actual sex with the partner. More people then ever You know, in a it's a self referential loop. That's what I think is the the worst part of it.

Like you become in reference to yourself in the screen, not other people. Sex is supposed to be relational. People accuse me of being like anti sex. I'm like, let your freak flag fly with, you know. As long as you're with a partner and, You Know, everybody's having a good time and nobody's opposed to it, but,you know pornography really distorts it and it's taking people away from relationships and just having them be stuck with their screen in themselves. Yeah. So I want to go back into this erectile dysfunction on young men.

Is this more of a libido issue that's occurring or is it an actual blood flow issue? It's neither. It is a brain issue. Erections start in the brain. People don't realize testosterone production starts in the brain. Yeah, exactly. And there's an axis in brain where testosterone is produced and where basically when you become aroused visually, auditorily, with all the senses, it's because your brain has caught that signal and is sending the signal through your spinal column, your peripheral nerves.

That's what activates blood flow. So the vast majority of my clients now have erectile dysfunction or some level of sexual arousal dysfunction, and they've all gone to their primary care physicians, their urologists, you know, cardiologists, everything's fine. Then eventually people find my content and then they find me. And just one comment back to your comment about domain authority. It is more difficult than ever for me to use the P word. and it is easier than never for pornography proper sites to be found, which is like the cruel joke of the loop that people are stuck into.

That is kind of crazy to think about. Isn't it? Wow. You know, there used to have hashtags for porn addiction and now there's not. Basically everything I try to do becomes shadow banned. Wow, yeah. The bigger bodies, it's almost like when we start talking about health and wellness, the big food companies, how they squash you and censor all your stuff. Yeah, big pharma, you know, junk food. So OK, so so we're seeing young age individuals, mainly males. What about the females? How do they fall into this?

So it's ticking up all the time, obviously. In my book, I write about how women are actually into more of like the storyline and like The Fifty Shades of Grey and that aspect erotica. So that is where women aren't falling right now. Um, but lately I've been saying that, uh, you know, that social media, sexualized social, media is worse than porn itself, which of course there's a caveat. The caveat is that what it lacks in intensity, it makes up for in frequency. So men, young men and women, all men in women but especially young women and men are using social in a very hyper-sexualized way, like messaging, um, Following each other the way that you know likes and hearts and artificial flames are given They call it and then you don't know what about all these I mean here in South Florida Miami It's known for all this young girls on the only fans.

Yeah, you no, yeah It we could be here forever talking about the reason but again, it goes back to dopamine, right? So young women And just to add one thing, I have three daughters, right? My oldest is 23, my middle daughter is 21, and my youngest is 15. So I'm in the middle of raising young adults in this storm. And one of my children, who has given me permission to talk about her story, it's actually the through line of the book that will be coming out on the algorithm. where basically there were young men giving her the likes and hearts, and this is what happens to a lot of women, with the less clothes there are, right?

The clothes start coming off, the like and the hearts keep going up. So this was a few years ago where... She really got into a tailspin, and then I became aware of it. I had to take her phone away. She went off the rails. A heavy rule in our home, you have to regulate yourself, get yourself under control, your brain under your control. Then you can have your phone in your car. They're privileges. And I always say, if you use them, safe and healthy, have them. If you're not safe, not healthy. You can't.

On your frontal lobe, I'll be regulating that until you are an adult. So I had to take her phone away and she ended up going to Verizon, got herself another phone, persisted, and it was a whole summer. But she thanks me now for having the strength for her when she didn't have the strengths for herself. Wow. And she paid for that second phone herself, by the way. It was in the thousands by that time I found out about it. So, you know, when we're talking about porn addiction, a young male, how often, most of the individuals that you're seeing, How often are they making access to this pornography?

A lot. And of course it varies, so the ways that it typically trends is that You know, all of it's validated by science. It starts with use, then it becomes misuse, and then becomes abuse. From abuse, there's kind of a bridge in my mind, to compulsion. This is where it really matters. And it happens at all different frequency levels. But the compulsive is you feel the pull to go back to porn, whether that be daily, every three days, or every week. Many of the people I work with, it is every couple of hours.

They need a dopamine hit to get through the day. Every couple hours every couple of hours and that's not an anomaly. That's that happening. This is common. It's very common and you know, we I don't know if you've seen like some of the stories where like people are busted having Porn up like during zooms people, you Know busted masturbating during Zooms in work zoos. many people are doing that, they have a tab open, and they don't even know, like they can't focus on their work because this is what the dopamine hijack does.

They can focus their on work without getting a little hit of dopamine to keep moving them through. The dopamine's been linked to the pornography, so they to have tab opened or they check their phone real quick, get a dopamine hit and try to get back to focus. And then, you know of course, there's no real number, but it's this you know, bridge into compulsion, which then leads into addiction. And, you now, if people wanna know I always tell people, try to quit, see what happens, right? And when they try quit they go through withdrawal, anxiety sets in at higher levels, flatline, Which feels like loss of libido.

Like I would like to go back to libado for a second. Many men think they associate hypersexuality with their libito, but their lipido is skewed. it's skewed up into hypersexuality, right? Objectifying, lusting, needing to watch sexual content. So when people's brains adjust and they rewire, it goes back to not thinking about sex constantly. If you're working and you keep having sexual fantasies, that's intrusive thoughts, not a high libido. That's a brain that is screaming for dopamine. What's considered a High Libido?

It's subjective measurement for many men. And again, it doesn't have a number, but the idea is like, this is a person who wants to have sex all the time, needs to consume sexual content. Even if you're objectifying your partner and you need to sex with your partners, need, that's the word, you know, It feels like this urge to having sex, even with you partner daily, like you are utilizing sex as a dopamine hit. Many of my clients realize this through the journey. Like, it's not about feeling, you know, the desire to be with your partner.

It's different. I need a mood. Its mood regulation.

How Porn Affects Dopamine, Libido, and Erectile Function 25:00

Now, I remember growing up in high school in health class, one of the statistics they threw out there, and I think it was about 80% of your day as a male, you're thinking about sex. And I can tell you, as male... You think about it a lot. I mean, that's the reality of what it is. But I wouldn't say I've never been the kind of guy where it's just like, I gotta watch porno every two minutes or whatever. That is the difference. Healthy sexuality, and thinking about sex, like, you know, the definition.

So let me back up for a second. Pornography addiction fits into the category of compulsive sexual behavior disorder through the World Health Organization. It's recognized. Right. where it becomes intrusive, where now it's disrupting your life. You know, so so again, it is a fine line. Like if you're having sexual thoughts, like, you know if your thinking about being with your partner, but if can no longer work to the capacity and that's like a mental illness at that point, that would go crazy. It becomes brain dysregulation then plays out as mental and physical health issues.

That's a huge message that I want people to know. We know there's increased anxiety, increased depression, lowered motivation, again, increase arousal dysfunction. So really it's about like, if people are struggling in their life, and they know their focus has gone down, they can't be with their partner, or it is unreliable if they're going to be able to, And they are going back to pornography, like if something is off in your life and pornography is in it, it probably a reason. So let me ask you this.

This is an interesting one because, you know, at our longevity clinics, we do hormone optimization. And sometimes we get individuals where we put them on testosterone, both males and females, and they become horny, right? Their libido goes up because of the testosterone. They've been deficient for so who knows how long. In in I remember when I first got into the industry This was in my early 20s when i was working with a company set of genetics I Remember I was a guy that would go do the blood draws for the doctor So I had to go to the patient's home to very affluent patients And I remembered I went to this guy's house the guy was like in his late 80s almost 90 and they put him on testosterone The guy would show it up with me.

It's like I'm doing stuff that I never thought I would do. I am on this computer. And I don't even know how to use the computer and I watch porn. This guy's like 90 and this guy is going to have a heart attack on a computer, you know? So it's someone like him who has not been watching porn for probably the last 50 years or whatever, is that a porn addiction now that he's started taking testosterone and he has this libido and got the thought of sex? Yes, if that's his outlet. So the idea is thinking about dopamine.

It's the dopamine hijack that I'm concerned about, not dopamine in and of itself. In this case, we can say testosterone, right? If you get an uptick in testosterone and you begin working out and volunteer at your local pet shelter with your new energy and find a honey and have a wonderful sex life with that person, Like that's utilizing, you know, your dopamine and your hormones. Well, sex addiction. Sex addiction is absolutely. Again, it goes back to the compulsive nature. So in that gentleman's case, like he is compulsively using pornography.

Right. If now that the only outlet there is pornography, its misplaced. But to go back to the testosterone for a minute, many of the people that I work with do have testosterone testing that i've been able to see through their recovery journey with pornography. Testosterone becomes really interesting. I mention it in my book, but I mentioned a concept in the book that is called the pendulum effect. And it affects neurotransmitters, it effects the brain performance, which ultimately affects hormones.

So if you think about it, your brain is actually you know, the supercomputer that is then affecting the cascading of everything else. So when it comes to the pendulum effect, The pendulum affect is that you'll have high levels, then you have low levels because if a person is consuming pornography, and especially coupling it with compulsive masturbation, like there's a dopamine flood, there is a testosterone spike, Then there are testosterone depletion, so the system is going back and forth. High levels, low levels.

That, again, is not healthy for people. You know, and when you're trying to optimize people's systems, it's so there's stability. Right. So that they can get into their life and do the things with their lives that. They want to not be chained to their computer watching pornography. Yeah. It's about the stability and their regulation in the system. And that's what my goal is to. Is it all people that watch porn have an addiction to pornography? No, just like anything else, right? Like, um, but well, I was going to say like alcohol, But it's different than alcohol.

So people, this is the reason. Pornography is considered a super normal stimulus. A supernormal stimulus provides the system with much higher levels of dopamine. But what it does is it capitalizes on healthy evolutionary behaviors, basically. So like when it comes to pornography, it's a distortion of sexuality with super high levels, super normal levels of dopamine. My point about that is most people who consume pornography that neo homeostasis happens from those early exposures, whether it be at eight years old or at 40 years the brain becomes flooded in the second exposure.

The brain needs more dopamine. That's what the neo homeostasis is. It's a recalibration to need more. Dopamine to feel the same as the first time, which leads to tolerance building, Which leads To escalation. So generally it leads too. You know, if we talk about in pornography proper, it's more tabs, you know. New avatars, new scenarios and scenes and, You Know, higher level of novelty and intensity. Again, that's the pursuit of pleasure through dopamine. For many people, it leads to acting out in the actual world.

That's where sex addiction comes in. So through pornography, people are like, okay, watching this is great, but I wanna experience this now. But again, is because of the desensitization in brain, which leads the escalation. Watching it doesn't do it for them anymore. And generally, they're relatively emotionally healthy, Partners don't want to do the things that that person has been consuming in pornography, so they have to go to the places and the people who are willing to those things. Generally, it involves violence and not going back to two people raising their freak flags.

It's not that it's one person using another person to get the highest level of dopamine. Wow. So, man. And can I just tell you one more thing? I have talked to thousands of men. I know thousands. Of stories and people have told me so many times I thought I was taking this to the grave. A gentleman told the other day, I've never told anybody this before. . I heard that thousands times. So like the stories I now are the story's other people don't know exist unless you're in the world of that and you are having your own experience.

Yeah, like listen, I've heard guys, you know, locker room talk and whatnot, people who have certain addictions to that pornography fantasy where they'll go to the massage parlor, right? Yeah. It gets dark. Yeah it gets very dark, they go into those rabbit holes and they can't get out of it. They can. And I'm talking about, and I knew guys in my 20s that they were going through that and that were actually asking themselves like, Man, I don't know why. I didn't even know I go there. The person's not even attractive.

That's the reason they go is for the dopamine. Right. that's why I want people to know that it literally has nothing to do with sex. Nothing. Sex is what the link of the doping mean. Very high levels. It got linked to because it's at the top of this super normal stimulus continuum. Honestly, I think OnlyFans and those types of platforms may exceed pornography proper, but for now, they're a notch lower than pornography-proper. The reason I say that is they are known as parasocial relationships. This is happening in sexting, too.

And many of the times, there are bots. One of people that worked for me, you need to tell people when they were chatting, it's a bot. It's not even a human being, because they'll chat with people In like chat rooms and that it's not even people, but they're being told, you know, all these sexual fantasies that aren't real. But that parasocial. Like back in the day, it was the one hundred phone number. Exactly. Or the dial up. I actually in my book, I like reference the dialect sound. But the publisher just took it out because they're like, is that the dialogue sound from the from nineteen ninety one?

You know, ninety-one is when the Internet and when pornography first, you know. Hit the internet. Yeah. You. Know, people would sit there and they'd wait the minute for the dilapidated. Well, dial. Mm hmm. So, let me ask you this, how destructive is pornography to a relationship? It's incredibly destructive. So the research studies now show, and again, it's the people willing to admit it and the that pornography is involved in the vast majority of divorces, the highest, a high percentage of divorce.

And then it leads to ugly divorce too. So I actually have a program also for partners. I call it sanity after betrayal. My goal isn't necessarily to save marriages, but it is to help both partners to regulate their brains and get back on track and kind of partner up to, you know, combat the pornography addiction because I call it the hijacker, a man who is addicted to pornography or sex addiction. They don't want to be doing those things. Just like you just said, partners don' understand the dopamine hijack.

I always talk about it that it creates like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde effect. You know they put on masks and they go out into the community and try to be upstanding citizens, but then they have all of these behaviors that they wish they didn't have to engage in. I want people to take the masks off and to find their authentic selves and rock out their best lives. I can really see that being a problem in certain relationships, in all relationships. But I'm more focused for, you know, let's say the 56 year old man, right, male, who is watching pornography and is watch pornography of college girls, while his wife is, his age.

Yes. You know, so now he's getting this access that he is always going to get this axis of the Seattle person which now Now you're the neuroscientist. I would assume that's rewiring his brain or should I say wiring his wire? Yeah, miss wiring. His brain Into wanting this it is and that is a change in arousal template Which is that? Is one of? The most destructive aspects so again like the brain is being linked to These people they're not even real people in their that man's real life and his partner is and if porn never entered into the equation.

They would continue to have a real sexual relationship which would be the highest dopamine producing activity. It's supposed to be right like sex with your partner if you never watch porn that would be where your brain got the most Dopamine right, but instead that's not happening. That's how an essentially nervous systems attune to each other and that how partners stay linked neurologically we know this there's a neurological linking but that neurological Linking is being broken and now men's brains are being artificially linked and to young women.

And again, it capitalizes on evolution. Evolutionarily, men, their brains will look for younger partners that are fertile and can reproduce. But when we're talking about porn, there's no reproducing. There's not legacy. there is no tribe. That's the distortion. Yeah. Wow. Now, what effect have you seen with, you know, we live in a world of AI. So I know recently there was new laws and bills passed and whatnot in regards to the deep fakes, right? Where people fantasize their favorite influencer or celebrity and people are utilizing these AI tools to get this even higher level of pleasure.

Yep, that goes back to kind of what I was talking about with OnlyFans being more dangerous, with the parasocial aspect. The parasozal aspect, and AI plays into it. That's the idea with The Bot. It can tell the person what they want to hear. You know, it can be exactly what the want, which is going to be a higher level dopamine hit. So as that continues, my son and I I have a nonprofit organization. It's called The Supernormal Project. My son, who's 22, Declan, his name is, he and I, have founded it.

And he just graduated from college. He's the executive director. he's getting it out there. it is a program to go upstream to young people to help them never get hooked on porn. But we were having a conversation yesterday, a very long one, honestly, about like, you know, people are just going to be in their screens and in this fantasy world, kind of like Ready Player One. And I was saying to Declan, we were talking about we're like, you know, people are just going to be in their games and in the virtual world.

The metaverse. They will. And then, then AI partners will, become their partner and it won't be actual sex. It'll be AI sex with bots and and then all those young men will have erectile dysfunction. So they couldn't. Be with a young woman if they wanted to. That's already happening. So then they're forced back into it. That's why by the time I talk to people, they are so hopeless that they could never have a real world relationship and they will always be caught in the

Social Media, OnlyFans, and AI-Driven Sexualization 40:00

loop of porn. And AI is baiting people into that. Do you think this has any effect? Because we were talking about this stretch all the way from a young age of eight years old. Would any of this have an effect when we're talking about erectile dysfunction and hormones becoming imbalanced on children, teenagers, questioning what their gender is? Yes, absolutely. resoundingly, yes, and I'll tell you why. And it's one of the soap boxes of mine, but I actually don't really ever make content about it because obviously it is loaded, right?

But I'm happy to answer because there is a lot of science that shows that there's OCDs, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. So there are a few different kinds, like a sexual O.C.D., a homosexual OCD. There's a variety of different names. Many of clients that I work with have it, have been self-diagnosed or diagnosed. And again, just think about it logically. All of this is logical if we just take one step back. If you are consistently watching the same gender and you're linking the dopamine to that person sexually, then you think you've attracted to those people, but it's actually the Dopamine Link.

I already told you the dopamine link doesn't have anything to do with the actual thing that you're watching, it's what got linked. So many of the men that I work with, they are attracted to other men, because in the porn scenes they're watchin', there's women, but it mostly the man that it focused on. Oh, wow. Then there becomes a dopamine link. Very confusing for people, and honestly it is one of more difficult things for me to unlink. But I can do it successfully. Wow, that's crazy. I've never thought about that.

Yeah, it's interesting. So, you know it so, You know, I definitely think it has to do with a lot of the confusion that people are experiencing And again, i've heard so many stories where they don't know exactly which route they want to go where They want So I guess that leads me to talk about the solution, right? Yeah. So and you utilize different tools that provide data. Where do you start when someone comes in and says, Doc, I'm struggling? Yeah, I always start with a QEG brain map. The technology that I use, i'm able to take a full brainmap from home.

So this way I can see all areas of the brain. I see the levels and the type of dysfunction. i have paired it down to two main types. on porn addiction and specifically how porn addictions is related to erectile dysfunction. It's a huge study. 200 brain maps is a large study, it contributes to the literature on dopamine dependency. So it's not like, I'm glad, It is not groundbreaking that it is the dopamine link, but it proves it in brainmaps. And so strain brain and drain brain, essentially strain-brain is running too fast and too slow.

So you're wired and tired. And then the brain craves soothing and stimulation. That's strain brain. It's when a person's really caught up in the cycle of pornography or sexual acting out. If you stay in that cycle for X amount of time, and I never know what that amount time is, it depends on frequency, consistency, novelty, intensity, all of the variables. The brain tips into what I call drain brain, the brain becomes depleted, that's when a person feels lack of motivation, they struggle with sexual arousal dysfunction, They feel low key depressed, their focus is gone.

So those two brain patterns are essentially what i'm looking for in the Brain Map. Of course I can see any other patterns that are in there, trauma, concussion, You know, anxiety, ADHD, anything else that is brain-based, but I identify those patterns and then I set protocols that I've designed based on that research study. Um, I call it sexual arousal dysfunction. So I called the protocols laugh, right? Sad and laugh. Lee arouse. Function. And, and just to remind you that arousing dysfunction, Anxiety and ADHD are all autonomic nervous system dysfunction on the continuum.

So I set the protocols and I'm able to help a person's brain rewire itself using technology. I know you get this brain here. Can you show us what parts of the brain are being affected based off the addiction and then what part of brain is being treated, etc.? Yeah, so I am able identify any area of my brain with the technology that I use. It's a headband that has sensors that go across the prefrontal cortex and the temporal lobes. but the sensor plugs in and I can identify any other areas, including the central region.

So the reward center in the brain can be visualized on QEG brain mapping from temporal lobe across the center to the other temporal Lobe. These areas are very important areas for emotional regulation. Then the reward pathways feed up and under to the prefrontal cortex and the frontal lobe. The pre frontal cortex is what makes us different from animals, right? It gives us all the higher level thinking skills that we have executive function, planning, organization, memory. working memory, attention, impulse control, judgment, socialization, it all lives up here in the frontal lobe.

Unfortunately, those are the areas that become most dysregulated and have high levels of dysfunction because of pornography and screen time. So that's primarily where I identify the dysfunction and I set the protocols to readjust the electrical energy back to the optimal brain performance pattern. Check this out. Maybe for the first time ever for most clients. Really? Well, that is a shift in total life. Yeah, it's a life, you know, a transformational process. Right. Of course. How does other things like meditation play a part with some of the things that you're doing?

Yeah, so meditation, I'm a huge fan of meditation. Breath work also. Yeah, breath work is incredibly, Wim Hof, all breathwork for vagal nerve stimulation. Breath work can be incredibly powerful. I teach people that in my program. The program that I offer also comes with a large master class, 94 lessons and action steps plus 40 quick step action. That is the behavioral change that's necessary. And my book is based on it. It's pared down. it's not quite the masterclass, but It's a good start. It has 54 brain hacks in it.

So the idea is that we use the rewiring, but then we synergize with mind and body. That's the behavioral change. OK, so, you know, this is how people can have lasting transformation, because I want people to know to that recovery has a beginning, a middle, and it should have an end. Right. And that's that optimization. You know the brain can get back and people have no clue how much better they can feel and perform. Have you utilized or studied transcranial magnetic stimulation? Yeah, I have clients that are using transcraneal magnetic simulation.

I know all about it. A filter of mine as a professional is I won't put anything into the brain. Transcranio magnetic. Stimulation does. So everything I do, completely non-invasive, it teaches the brain to perform better, not put, basically what happens there is there's a magnet that is set to a frequency. The frequency is to attune, remember how I told you there was attunement? To have the bring attuned to that frequency with the magnet, our cells are little magnets basically. So the frequency goes in and the idea is like to Jimmy the Brain, out of the frequency that it's in towards this other frequency, that is beneficial for some people.

It's also not beneficial. For other people, and I would love people to have a brain map before they do transcranial magnetic stimulation because I've partnered with my clients practitioners to be able to isolate the. Frequency that's most appropriate and track the brain changes in transcraneal magnetic simulation. They don't have data. Yeah, right. And you know what? I've been wondering, like, what would that data look like? You know, pre-TMS versus post- TMS. I just did it with a client, which it was really awesome.

Neural feedback was bringing the person's brain down is the easiest way to think about it. Like the gap in dysfunction, closing, close, and closing. This person had been doing T.M.S., but They went and did an intensive. So that was really fun because they went for a week of multiple sessions across the days for five days. There was a significant drop watching it synergize together. Really? But they would have never known that if they weren't working with me. You know what I mean? They're like, I don't know.

if this is working, and I'm like, it's working. And I shared the data with the doctor, with a practitioner. I actually gave him a few sessions of neurofeedback. So I've never checked his brain. He's a psychiatrist. So, so let's talk about that neural feedback, neural, feedback and brain mapping. Um, how does that work? You're looking at the brain waves, uh, in the, brain. How was it? So the way I describe it, just to make it easy for people to understand is that. They are brainwaves indeed, but I talk about them as brain speeds and they fall into three categories.

They fall. Into breaking, which we need for sleep to fall asleep and stay asleep. We're called Delta and Theta. Then there's neutral, then the faster speeds, which are acceleration in the brain, we need it for focus, concentration, and a healthy stress response.

Relationship Damage, Divorce, and Recovery Patterns 50:00

So I use a lot of car analogies because I think it makes it easier. The idea is our brains should be able to act like an automatic transmission. That's what regulation is. If you drive a car with automatic transmissions, you don't think about shifting at all, right? Right. So that's how an optimal brain performs, which allows our brain to shift in and out of these gears, something called circadian rhythms, Which means you feel calm and focused all day long. You're alert, right? When it's time to concentrate, you can do it.

If a bear came in right now, You'd probably fight. I'd, probably, flee, fight or flight. We'd have a healthy stress response, but then we can come back to our conversation once our systems came back down. When we get in bed, it takes 20 minutes to fall asleep. Not one second. That's ANS dysfunction. You fall asleep in one. Second, you know, adrenal fatigue. Then you stay asleep for eight glorious hours. Get restorative sleep REM cycle and you wake up and do it all over again. The people that I work with and this is what pornography does and screen time.

It's like a manual transmission. you get stuck in a gear strain brain. Your stuck and breaking and gassing simultaneously. They're spinning your wheels, but you have the brakes on too. Drain brain, you're stuck in neutral, your car can't go. Wow. You talked about sleep a bit here. Are you tracking sleep data on your clients as well? Some of them, depending upon. It's not a standard aspect of the program that I offer, but if people have any data, I'm able to review it, think about it. I know how to look at basically all of it and consider it so I will either qualitatively ask people about sleep.

Sleep is a major factor. Sleep is disrupted. Like I told you, most people are in strain brain moving towards drain brain, which involves alpha. There is a type of insomnia that's called alpha suppression. So the dopamine that floods the system basically increases alpha either for a time or you get stuck in that gear. Then that leads to alpha-suppression. That's why so many people use pornography as a sleep aid. Yeah, I was just going to ask someone who has a pornography addiction, is there as they're trying to you're kind of work with them?

Is there a better time to watch the pornography? People have their cycles. Everybody has the idea behind compulsion is, there is a cycle. And that's why I kind have alluded to that, that it might be, you know, every two weeks, but there. Is a. Cycle to it. So for some people, many people it's at night as a sleep aid and then they can't sleep without it well. For other people, it's a boost in the morning. So people have to and they're aware of it. They have To watch a little porn before they can get going like their their brains have learned.

It's conditioning. Before the coffee. Yeah, It is their coffee for a lot of people and They can't function without it That's when you know, you have brain dysfunction. If you need you depend on something. You depend on dopamine to either sleep, to get going for the day, you know, other people like their wife leaves every Sunday to go visit her mother. That's the cycle. Like 40 minutes before she's leaving, their brain is already tingling with excitement. The dopamine receptors, the dopamine drip, I call it, gets going because they know pursuit, right?

Anticipation. So there's a cycle for most people. So after you do the neurofeedback, you're going to map the brain, right? Do the Brain Mapping. And that's the rewiring portion. Yeah, so I do The Brain Map as the assessment. It's our baseline. So that is our starting point. Then I set the protocols specifically for what that person's brain needs. That's what's different. First of all, that what is different from all recovery. Sometimes people will say, I'm thinking about working with you or this person or that And I'm like, I have to stop you there.

This person and that person, it's a generalized program that is going to use your mind and your body. We're going go right to your brain. we're gonna rewire it using advanced technology. It's based on something called operant conditioning. Most people know Pavlov dog and Ringabel salivate. That's classical conditioning, operand conditioning takes it a step further to reinforcement schedules. which, you know, it's the same mechanism that creates pornography addiction. We're going to use it. And, unironically again, using technology as your best friend instead of your worst enemy to reinforce these new healthier brain patterns based on the protocols that I've set.

So it is training and your brain is a muscle. You can talk to five professionals for 400 hours. If you wanted to get fit, Can you sit around talking to people? Absolutely not. You have to train your brain. So in my app, you hit the train button, You train 30 minutes a day and the, the weakened brain becomes stronger. And then we have data every single session. There's graphs and charts. for my clients within the app, they can see their progress right away. They feel it too, of course, right, that they have to get the outcomes.

And I have a ton more data, so I'm able to, I am always in the back end, refining or individualizing people's programs as necessary. When they're going through their programs and trainings, what type of videos are they utilizing? Obviously, non-sexualized ones. In the App, there's all streaming services. Salience is an important factor in research, the brain has to want to see it. Okay, so I have all my clients usually there's that gap of dysfunctions very large for most of my client's so, I Have them start with streaming services something that their brain can start to look forward going back to I'll give you a great example one of My clients told me that he was watching smallville.

That's CW show Like, you know, it's Superman. So there it not sexualized at all. It's not violent at All it like pretty much in the middle for the dopamine hits but engaging and Something like that, you know, so but then there are games audio activities They can be more difficult because you're really sitting with the feedback from your brain. Like you are aware of how Disregulated or regulated you becoming but I graduate people to the activities as their brain gets stronger Wow So these are the tools that we really need to make a difference in a lot of these patients that are suffering from these type of addictions.

And I can only imagine if they have this type addiction, they could potentially be having other addicitons as well too. Yeah, many of the people that I work with I've heard this line a lot. I gave up drinking, I give up smoking, and gave marijuana, gave other drugs. And people tell me that all the time. Most of people really want to become the best version of themselves and they're recognizing the things that are holding them back. So it is a super normal stimulus. It's up there. But yes, you know, many people have a multi addiction and they're hitting the dopamine hits in lots of ways.

Alcohol, food, work, right? Lots of screen time, long form, short form social media, chats, notifications, like, people's brains are really off the charts in terms of getting those dopamine heads all the time. Now, you know, I always like to bring up faith and religion. Does that have any kind of effect in the recovery portion of it or even, the addiction itself? Yeah. People ask me all the time, is your program a spiritual program? And I say, shh, don't tell anybody because all transformation spiritual.

So of course I have people who in my program who are not strongly faith based. I meet people from a neuroscience perspective, but I have been known to say that, you know, the divinely inspired version of yourself, your true self, it is not hooked on pornography, right? Like that version yourself. That's the passion and the purpose that people are being taken away from. Right. So like when that's why I said this is a self transformation program. what I want for people, recovery as a beginning, middle, and end, right?

When a person recovers, they get back to that version of themselves that they've always wanted to be. So in my program and in book, I say, become the version that you've wanted be, not your mother, your brother, or your best friend. Have the courage to figure that out and then have the encourage to go do it. So that on your death bed, I always do the deathbed experiment myself on my death, bed. Will I regret doing this or not doing it more in my real life and then go do it and, you know, embrace it.

Yeah. You know what? One thing that I always think about. And this comes from personal experience, being a firefighter paramedic for 12 years in the world of emergency medicine, seeing nothing but the negative side of people's lives. Usually when people call 911, there's nothing good. And there's certain treatments and certain things that I have to do to detox myself from a lot of this negative energy and a lotta sick people. And one thing, being exposed to so many healers and people that guide people to heal, You absorb a lot of this negative energy.

What do you do to take care of yourself from getting exposed to so much darkness? I love that. I just told my team who I thought, as I'm telling them, they probably think I am crazy right now. Because like someone told me something concerning. I'm concerned for the person. They told basically this away. People tell me this all the time. So this is just the most recent example. Gentleman told that in the chat that he was in.

Brain Mapping, Neurofeedback, and Rewiring the Brain 1:00:00

The woman or perceived woman was telling him all the things that she loved being done to her, super violent acts, supervillain sexual acts. There's no healthy woman that wants to have violent sexual act done them. But then he found himself wondering like if the waitress likes having that done or if a person at the counter, the answer is no, they don't. So it plays out. This story, this gentleman told me it and it's been in my mind. So this is what I was telling the people on my team, and this how I've practiced it for a long time.

I do listen to people and then I sit with them energetically, but I will not take that on. And if it tries to bore itself into my brain, which it will, then what I do is I flip the script on it where I think about him and I send loving thoughts out to him. I just, my family too, you know, I've got five kids. It's like, there's always a phone call of something that's going on, but I won't worry. Worry perpetuates that I stay out of fear. And I don't want to contribute to the fear and the chaos of human condition or earth or planet earth.

So I turn it into a loving thought and like basically think Send my love to that person to help them shift energetically. Wow, that's powerful. I love that So that right now there's a big movement that happening It's called a make America healthy movement and you know, there is a portion of it. That's specific to brain health and Psychiatric health Etc and and they've put teams together. What are your thoughts about things that are happening in that part of government? Yeah, so I would love to see it be, you know, continue, obviously.

This is, and you may know this or may not, this is the first time in human history that the younger generation is less healthy. Ever. So, and that is a direct correlation to screens. They are less healthy in terms of mental and physical health. This needs to be addressed on a practical scale. And this goes back to the conversation that Declan and I were having yesterday. I'm like, everyone's gonna be overweight if all they do is sit at their computers and nobody's out having any fun anymore. Nobody's going to have relationships.

You and have been making eye contact for 30 minutes right now. Having a discussion. real world implications. And Melania Trump has had a I'm not that much of a political person, I will tell you, but I know part of her platform was addressing pornography and deepfakes. I think it needs to be addressed and we need to have practical solutions. A funny story from my kids when they were younger. One of them asked me, I think Obama was president, honestly, but it was like, if the president could do one thing that would help health, what do you think the President should do?

And I said, make neurofeedback accessible to everybody. Because if people's brains shifted, they don't have to become optimized. Even if they were a little more optimal, there'd be less addiction. There'd be less anxiety. There would be last depression. Third, be lost mental health issues. Like if we could take that even just a little bit in the right direction, we can see a ripple effect. Right. So you got this book here. Cool looking book. Here. What made you put this together? Yeah, so I really wanted to be able to bring to, you know, more of a mass market, an affordable way for people to learn about this.

I have a lot of content on YouTube, but you now how that goes. It's like, You know you can get down a rabbit hole, But it's not a formula. So I put the formula into the book and interesting enough, a literary agent heard my podcast and reached out. And he's like, do you ever think about doing a book? I'm like actually, I have one already put together. It was nowhere near the version that it's become with help from the publishing company. But I really hope that is accessed for a very long time. Your Brain on Porn was one of the fundamental books that came out, Gary Wilson, who's since passed.

He basically accumulated the research on the negative effects of porn in the early days. When my book came out, it was number one ahead of Gary Wilson's book, which was really exciting for me to kind of like, people have said to me like that I've picked up the baton from Gary, Wilson with his passing and his book didn't tell people how to recover and how Also talks about the science behind all the negative effects, but also lays out the formula and the publishers kind of wanted to. I think it was because it.

Was poorly written at the beginning. They wanted. To cut out. The part about brain mapping and neurofeedback and I'm like, no way it needs to stay. and I understand why they wanted it. It's because they want it to be a full experience, right? Like you get the book and you have a whole experience. it doesn't say go get this service. And I agree with that, but many people are going to read the books. They're going try the 54 brain hacks. they're gonna succeed to some level, But ultimately they will need advanced technology.

That's where we're at. So it stays. I rewrote it, it's much better and it is in there. I love it. Love it so that I we're gonna have a little fun here. So I got these Cool conversation cards from one of my favorite podcasters Stephen Barlet with the diary of a CEO. Yeah, so I'll have you grab that Okay, take the sleeve off. Yep You'll grab two cards out of their random cards. Okay. You know read it and answer it Okay to random Cards, let's hope they're not too Okay Reading them, what scares you the most today?

Well, something I'm working on personally, I guess, like just pivoting out of what we've been discussing, because clearly that's one of my greatest concerns for humanity. But for myself, it's interesting. I am in a phase of life where I really am doing what I encourage people to do. Being fearless about how I live, especially with my family, helping my children who are now young adults. Um, I'm rubbing some people wrong because of that, you know, because I am more committed to making sure I achieve the goals that I want, but they're not selfish goals.

They're goals of a ripple effect. So, um, they are, They are scary, But I keep pushing through. That's good, though. You know, I was just talking to Carlos about this yesterday, as a matter of fact, it was an artist, Mac Miller. He actually stated that you can't please everybody. And as matter fact when you're doing things the right way, right, you are going to create that division. Yeah. It's just like a piece of art, artwork. A nice piece artwork, someone will pay millions of dollars for it. The other person you couldn't pay them to take it, so Yep.

Faith, Hope, and Final Takeaways 1:07:00

You're doing it right. Yeah. Doing it, right? And that's exactly how I see it. And I've become a lot more fearless, probably in the last year, just doing things and like, and fearless is the wrong word. I have been exercising more courage because, you know, like you can only exercise courage in a face of fear. So I'm like I am doing this and you're like take myself to my rock bottom moment, I still going to be fine, so I been persisting and it's been really cool and I setting a really example for my kids too.

Let's see, if I would go back to one era in civilization, what era would I pick and why and what would be my job? I think what will be cool is like, I'd come back as Napoleon Hill back in Napoleon Hills era. If you know who Napoleon hill is. You know, back In the 20s, the turn of the century, he He's very much like me. I already told you, once I learn about a thing, I want to go deep on it and learn all about it. He met with all of the leaders, the thought leaders of that time and kind of collated what they did for success.

That would be what I would want do. Andy talked about sexual transmutation, not to digress back into that. He said, you know, that men should take all that sexual energy and use it for personal transformation. And as they get a little bit older, it becomes easier to because they have more self-control. Wow. So, Doug, as we wrap up here, if there's anyone who's viewing or listening to the podcast and truly resonates with today's message, what is that last thing you can leave them off with? Yeah, I want them to know that If you struggle, there is hope.

And especially from my world in terms of neuroscience, the reason you haven't succeeded is you probably don't have the right tools and support. Getting my book is a great first start, but I want people to remain hopeful. In the book, I talk about it as pragmatic hope, Right. You can be hopeful, but you you absolutely have to do the right things that work. So a lot of people start giving up on hope before they meet me. I want them to know. Game on. Let's go. Absolutely. And if people want to find you, where can they find.

They can find me at drtrishlee.com. It's L-E-I-G-H. All roads lead out from there. I have a variety of YouTube channels. Have a podcast. A variety programs. In the midst of rebranding because of the whole domain authority issue. Rebranding my programs as Desire Rewire. Encapsulating not only intimacy but also motivation and that passion and purpose and focus. drive all of that. So the programs will be there very soon on my new website. Awesome. And for the people that are not watching, they're listening.

What's the name of the book? My book is called Mind Over Explicit Matter. You can find it where you find any book. and the reviews are astounding and people I still do consultations. I talk with people. so if people want to reach out to me on My website, there's a consultation button and People tell me all the time that the Book has saved their life. Amazing. Dr. Trish Lee, this is a conversation that was much needed. I appreciate you for bringing this to our viewers and listeners. Thank you. Yeah, thank you, for having me.

Appreciate it. Guys, you heard Dr Trisha Lee here. If you want to optimize your brain, if you wanna optimize her health, If You really wanna take your life to the next level and be in control, You have to pivot. But when you pivot, just how I always say, every great athlete has a coach. She's created this system for you to be able to have data to make that pivot. So guys, make sure that if you resonate with today's message, or if have friends and family that fall into this category, makes sure you share this podcast.

Make sure like, subscribe, do all that fun stuff, and we'll see you for the next one.