The Future of Legal Psychedelic Therapy

Opening Story and Podcast Intro 0:00

Not only did she not do that, but she mostly sat under a tree. We have a tree. That's our sitting tree. Its name is Arthur. That's a long story. But she sat under Arthur for about four hours, essentially without moving much. Tears streaming down her face, a big smile on her face. And now she's coming out of her experience. She said with big, bright eyes. Who am I now without this burden? Welcome to Doctor Talks, the podcast where every episode leads to a healthier you. Join us as we navigate the world of optimal health, uncovering groundbreaking strategies to conquer chronic disease.

In each episode, we'll bring you the latest insights from leading health experts, medical innovators, and wellness warriors. If you're seeking to transform your health journey, or if you're looking for answers to burning questions, you've come to the right place. Get ready to unlock the secrets of lifelong health and vitality. This is Doctor Talks, real talk from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most. Thank you so much for being here, doctor Leah there on board from Satan's Seminary.

We're so excited to have you two curious MDS who are exploring the intersection of healing and alternative ways of looking at the process of healing and

How the Collaboration Began 1:24

and what opens up to us when we start to think about mind, body and spirit aligning and and healing together. And today I'm so excited to have both of you here on the podcast today. So without further ado, I'd like to just start off by asking, how did you decide to do this work together? What had to align to make? Yeah, absolutely. This was the universe and the universe, right? Us together. So Pam and I have worked together in the past, a professional nutraceutical company here in Reno, Nevada, and we were having that lunch one day, and I started to tell her this story.

So there's been a lot of curiosity. The psychedelic movement has really been going through a renaissance. And one week about two years ago, maybe two and a half years ago, I had three different patients come to me in the same week, totally unrelated, and say, hey, what do you think about microdosing psilocybin? I listen to this podcast. I read this article, I saw this book that I started reading, and I'm really curious about it. So I was doing all of the foundational naturopathic things of root hair, root cause medicine, and I had all of that going on, but each of them were very successful individuals, very high functioning individuals.

And we're looking for a bit of a catalyst to kind of move them forward in their healing and wellness journey, specifically with mental health. And so they came to me all in one week and I was like, okay, well, I had only really seen or thought about this from a recreational standpoint. And so I said, okay, let's go. Let's give me it, give me a minute. I'm going to go dive into the research and see what's there. And the research is there, right. For treating depression, anxiety, PTSD, addiction, even conditions such as diabetes and sleep and fibromyalgia and chronic pain.

I mean, the list just went on and on and on and I was like, okay, well, we we gotta, we gotta we gotta try it out. See, you know, I mean, as a physician, you know, it is a practice of medicine. So let's see how it goes. And I can honestly say it makes me tear up. I can honestly say that it was the most profound shift I had seen. And all three of those patients, and they really was even within a very small timeframe. And even at Microdose, we're able to see incredible gains as far as not being, you know, so tied to the alcohol at the end of the night to calm down, having more focus, having more clarity, having more productivity.

And so I was having lunch with Pam one day and was telling her that story. I was like, Pam, we gotta be like this is so incredible. And I think I, we need to put it in the water like, this is this is amazing for people. And so Pam, being the beautiful business person that she is, had this little light bulb and was like, okay, how do we do this? So I'll let her kind of explain the process afterwards. So yeah, as she was describing and I'm thinking, wow, this is just incredible.

Why Psychedelic Medicine and Church Structure 4:36

So there has to be a way. There just has to be a way. Because I was aware that there was a renaissance and psychedelics for mental health. And I did my own research, and it certainly was there mostly with macro dose, but there are microdose studies as well. So number one, I had to experience it because I hadn't. So, you know, we went down to Mexico and had a big old journey, and I came away with that for sure. We need to do this. So I was aware of ayahuasca churches in the U.S. and dug into how they were sustaining themselves without being harassed.

And it really is the result of the 1993 Religious Freedom Restoration Act that the feds passed, and that was designed to sort of alleviate harassment of indigenous people that use plant medicines for sincere spiritual practice. So I looked into this law and also spoke to a bunch of attorneys. And there are a bunch there's a bar of psychedelic attorneys, amazingly enough. And really investigated how it was being done, looked at the risks associated with doing it. And there was a pathway for sure.

And I felt very comfortable that we could do this safely and within the confines of the law. The way to do that is through a church or a religious institution. And so I built a church where a nonprofit religious institution, our tenants are really completely non-denominational. Although if you're using psychedelics and you don't believe there's something beyond your body here today, then you're doing something wrong. Whether you call it God, the universe, or whatever doesn't matter at all. Whatever gets you there is okay for us.

But we do follow the tenets of naturopathy medicine. So root cause, medicine, root cause, lifestyle shifts. So the the psilocybin itself is our sacrament, and we use that word to abide by the strictures of being a church. But there's all the other things associated with the shifts that you can get from psilocybin. So what we do is we hold events twice a month on the new moon and the full moon. One is science and sermon, and that's really more didactic. So potentially we're talking about meditation this month.

We will teach about all of the science behind meditation and why meditation is a practice you should consider bringing into your life how you can do it easily and not have to go to an ashram. And then the second is more of a sensation. So it's an experiential practice, and we'll go through various ways of incorporating meditation in your life, doing a full body scan or a walking meditation or just general mindfulness meditation. So there is a gigantic toolbox of stuff, from sound baths to hot and cold therapy to grounding to you name it.

And we try to introduce everyone. So everyone's welcome to these free events, to these practices that can really help improve your life. Aided by our sacrament, which we offer, and both microdose and microdose only in ceremonies. So those macro doses, anything that gives you psychedelic effect is done under facilitation here at the church, which is my home outside of Reno with Leah and I, who are trained facilitators. And we've only been in business since late spring, early summer, and we have a pretty good strong following and we are doing more just to help, like you are, you know, educate people that there is a way to access these medicines safely, that very high quality, because as I mentioned, we worked in the nutraceutical business together.

We know where to source things, where to get them tested. We actually have all of these produced under GMP Good Manufacturing Practices, which is the highest FDA standard. So these are very safe. We know exactly what's in it. We know how to guide people, how to use them. So it's an option. It's a really safe option to explore these medicines. Yeah. And just to turn them off of that because the my biggest concern, especially as being a physician, is where are they getting these. Because everybody was coming to me with their little baggies that, you know, who knows where they were coming from, what streets were, you know, what was in them.

Do they have heavy metals? Do they have mycotoxins, you know, like really wanting to provide safe medicine for people. And so Pam and I, coming from that industry of knowing how rigorous testing needs to be and good manufacturing practices and having that safety net around what medicine we're offering was so absolutely important to us versus, gotten it from some guy's basement, you know, kind of thing. So that was that was very important for us to make sure that it was safe and high quality and organic and totally tested.

Oh my gosh. As I'm then taking this in, I'm just getting this understanding that you're holding both things. You're you're making connections, which is such a mycelial kind of way of looking at things. Right? Oh, we've we've got the I kind of rooted down here balancing the two sides of not just symptom relief, but yes, you're coming so that you can, you know, improve your life. You know, put your bad habits, but. Oh, and this is a sacrament, and we also want to hold space

Community, Stigma, and Whole-Person Healing 10:21

for the fact that the human being has this expansive aspect to ourselves. Right? I love how you mentioned that meditation. You know, when we talk about the science that we're a meditation and, you know, when we look at brains that are in the psychedelic journey and also the brains of people who are meditating, there's just so much overlap there that we know we're on that same kind of kind of scale. Right? It's how loud it goes. And with psychedelics, you just really turning it up to 11. When you're like microdosing, it's a shortcut you can achieve exact same thing with the other tools.

This just gets you there faster. And we like to say that the journey is just the beginning. You know, we we can't negate the fact that we are a whole body system, and the whole system needs to have attention to it, you know, and so you can have these macro dosing journeys and really go to places. But if you don't have those foundational things of sleep and nutrition and even community, right to like hold you in that space, then lasting, meaningful change doesn't happen. And so we do, you know, have this sincere aspect of why we want why we started a church is that we have that community.

We have those tools. You continue to learn and grow, you know, with the facilitation of medicine to create that meaningful, lasting change. So integration never stops. You know, there are folks can offer an integration session, maybe after a macro journey. But for us, we believe integration is now should be part of your life. And you know, whether meditation is that your tool that works effectively or running, you know, it doesn't matter. You just need to know what's available to you and be able to access these things in an environment where people aren't judging you because you're exploring plant medicines, which still happen.

Oh my gosh. And then thank you for naming that the stigma is huge. The stigma is huge. And that's kind of the issue here, right, is if you're doing a psychedelic medicine and you're not in community, how damaging that can be, how absolutely devastating to feel that isolation again. Right. People are doing this medicine to feel, because we're feeling disconnected from our bodies, from from the world and from joy. And here we are. We're in this beautiful connecting medicine, and we see it all and we feel it all.

And then to be left out of community after that is just kind of it just feels like a doubling down of isolation. And so this the model that you've chosen works so well because you have this constant community that's going on the lunar cycle, which just gets everybody on to just living our lives in a different way, in a more intentional way, a more connected way. So I'm just really understanding, you know, the kind of roots of where you're going to is like with a lot of respect to, to the sacrament itself, the Earth and the traditions that have usually been needed to need it to occur right around these medicines.

I mean, we weren't supposed to be doing these medicines in isolation. No. Well, I don't think we're going to live in isolation, you know, like, I think that that is such a crisis that we're going through. I mean, with the internet and social media, I mean, we're more quote unquote connected than we ever have bed and we have access to all of this information. But I think so much of what so many people are lacking is that sense of community, that sense of accountability, that sense of support, especially when we're addressing our mental health concerns.

Because that, again, is another side of the taboo. You know, you can see somebody that has a broken arm and, you know, that's a physical thing that you can give compassion to. But so often people don't talk about I'm really struggling with my anxiety or my depression or I've never really faced this issue before, and it just sits in the background of my soul and eats away at me, you know? So having having that ability to say, I'm not perfect, I need some help. Like I need some support is such a such a profound thing.

And so again, having that having that container, that safe container I think is really ineffably valuable. And it is it is really palpable because we have events here and elsewhere and there are no pretenses at all. Everybody is on a similar journey, although it may be separate. We're all there to explore what you know nature, God, the universe gave us right in to sort through our bag and put the bags down so the the energy around these events is just spectacular and and soul filling honestly. And, you know, you, you speak about having stigma.

We found and and thankfully for us and everybody else involved is that there is more research available and more evidence that these are safe, that psilocybin is the safest by far. The safety profile is extraordinary for psilocybin, but we have physicians here in the Reno area that regularly refer people to us. We have, a leading neurologist here that sends probably three patients a month that are early onset Alzheimer's. And the microdose pairings that we can offer do help a bit with memory. But what it gives them more confidence and elevates their mood and also is a happier place.

And these people stick with this very low dose support by other botanicals. And maybe we can talk about that next, the three pairings that we offer. But yeah, so this is a safe place to go. And some of these folks don't have much in the way of other therapeutic options. Yeah. And I think the just a tandem off of that too, even if they don't have option to others therapeutic access, you know, even beyond early Alzheimer's and dementia, you know, the the health care landscape is absolutely changing as well.

People want more control, want more autonomy. And recognize that their medications aren't addressing their system. It's addressing the symptoms, but it's not getting what is actually going on in them. And I think the with this Bountiful knowledge that we have access to, you know, through the internet and books and whatnot and podcasts like yours, yours that, you know, people are really seeking that like deeper meaning of like, I don't want to just take a pill for the rest of my life. I want to be. Well, yeah.

So yeah. Oh my gosh, we we absolutely everything that you're, you're sharing today is making me think back to the suffering I've seen within the health care community itself. You know, medical students, students of other healing modalities who are going through this really rough training. And that's that training hasn't changed, you know, and and not only that, it's actually become folded into this giant kind of financial, you know, the economics of health care. Let's just put it under that, you know, basket is the economics of healthcare.

Make it such that you can't pay attention to the things that really matter, that you're forced to pay attention to only the symptoms, and you're told that, oh, this is how you fix this. And there's such a deep and I want to just name this. There's just a deep sense of loss and grief that a lot of my trainees feel, because they get to the end of this

Healing Healthcare Providers and Trauma 18:30

really, you know, kind of difficult road of their training. And by the second and third year of their residency, they're looking back going, what? This is this, this is it. This is what I, this is what I get to do. And they start to feel that despair. Yeah. Because as we know, healing is this bidirectional journey. You know, it has to flow between two people. It's an interpersonal experience. And I love how the way that you're doing this medicine is like, let's talk about the whole person. Let's talk about them in their context.

Let's look at nutrition. Let's look at exercise. Let's look at meaning. Let's look at community. Right. And let's also leave space for everybody being on the healing journey I love how you said that. It's just everybody. It's it's it's real talk. And so we break down those barriers of that we've kind of built for ourselves where we say, oh, I'm sick and you're not sick and you're well. And so there's nothing wrong with you and how trainees kind of get trapped in that, in that dichotomy. Because as trainees and as physicians and as healers, doctors in a professional, you know, certified, licensed individual, we're not allowed to see that we're suffering.

Not only are we not allowed to say we're suffering, we're actually going to then suffer the consequences of being in jeopardy and of maybe jeopardizing our training, what kind of jobs we can get and everything. So there's just this amazing amount of stigma and isolation that a lot of trainees are holding, you know, holding as they as they graduate. And when we're kind of looking at this kind of medicine, I feel like the first person that heals is yourself. Like when you step into this kind of healing space, right?

When you recognize that this is possible and then you're like, oh, I want to take this to other people. But first, the lesson is always healer heals itself. Say heal thyself, healer, heal thyself. Right? Because only in healing ourselves do we kind of recognize what others are also suffering through. Right? Because all of our wounds are the same really at the root cause we're all carrying similar, you know, kind of root causes because we're all embedded in this, in this same society dealing with the same issues and, and the environmental toxins and the trauma and everything like that.

What I would like to kind of. I oh yeah, I can I totally agree with you is that I think that everybody goes into the medical field with great intentions for supporting others, and I think that so much of the system of education and training for these beautiful individuals that have such great intention is negating your own self. Right? You got to suck it up and take 30 credits and, you know, be in these long residency hours and really negate your own need for self-care for, because it is an encouraged right.

It isn't trained on it is and encouraged. Kind of quite the opposite is that the people that are quote unquote successful all can leave their stuff at the door, you know, when so often what it is to be a healer is to say, I witness you because me too. Right? That empathy and that sympathy looks like I see you because I see me also. And giving yourself permission to participate in that, I think is so valuable. One of my very dear patients and friends is a ER doctor, and I have an ear doctor and an ear nurse, and they were some of the first ones to hop on this psychedelic bandwagon because they were coming home at the end of the day and to decompress.

It was two bottles of wine. It was, you know, whatever, whatever their creature comforts were to numb them out. Right? They were going towards those things and they didn't want to do that. They wanted to, like, really be aware of what was going on with them and to help address that. And so it's so, so often the health care providers do not get the health care themselves. And so this is beautiful, beautiful medicine for health care providers as well. Absolutely. It really brings back the reason why we makes us get connected back with the reason why we chose to sacrifice, and then chose the path we did.

And I love how you use the word negating. There's this interesting, just just the kind of, exercise I do that comes from what the healers are by Rachel Naomi Redman. I don't know if you know her kitchen table wisdom, and it's just a drawing exercise where we say, okay, what are the parts of yourself that can't be here in medicine? You know, when we asked a first year medical student, what are the parts of yourself that you feel can't arrive here, right? And how disintegrating that is? When we enter medicine, we think we have to be these professionals, and we have to kind of like, you know, close off parts of ourselves.

We're literally negating ourselves. And as we know, coming back into talking about this kind of medicine, you know, it's such an integrative process. Every part of you matters. The dancer in you matters. The comedian in you matters. The the one that you know just has the kindest heart for animals. That that person matters. And how that creates the healer. And what a disservice we've done by telling young people that know you've got to abandon yourself to be a healer, right? It just really gets at that like crux of it.

And I love how psychedelic medicine is such a holistic, expansive space in which we can bring our ancestor or lineages. We can bring the stories of migration, we can bring the strength of the matriarchal right and all of these different roles that we play that we can bring in mythic poetic language and storytelling. I mean, it's just all here as a human experience, and I just love the reclaiming of healing as a human experience that you both are doing. Yeah, I couldn't agree more because beyond I like to say that we are more than just the healer, right?

We are a sister. We are friend. We are, you know, a being on the planet. But we also, you know, go back to our like roots of the leg bone's connected to the knee. I was like, everybody knows that song, right? And it's it acknowledges that, like, we're not just our cardiovascular system.

Ceremony Process and Set and Setting 25:36

We're not just our, you know, central nervous system. We are we are all connected, right? Not only in our bodies, but also to each other, to the planet, to our stories, to our lineage. Like we we and how you along those. I'm sorry. I just want to tell you a story that I said based on what you were describing about our other cells. We had a child psychiatrist, a newly minted child psychiatrist, joined us for a group ceremony a few months ago now. And one of his big takeaways very buttoned up, very buttoned up, individual, very serious, very somber.

He came under the the goal to understand what this medicine is because it's becoming more available and more well researched. He left with the concept that. Why don't I play it? How come I don't play anymore? He was a different human being when I drove him home. And his partner, also a physician, is going to join us on Saturday for a ceremony. It it these medicines can really crack into the things that you're not wanting to look at. It, but that are, you know, playing a huge role in your life. Yeah, absolutely.

That understanding that the more we suppress, the more those things become active, but in a subconscious way. And how can we make the unknown known and do it in a safe way? Because that's what we're afraid of, is there's just no safety anywhere to be able to unpack your fears. You're all of those things that we guard. And here is an opportunity, a completely different paradigm to just kind of like, open it up and not fear that you're going to be rejected, and to recognize that somebody else is going to not just not reject you, but accept and reflect back, and you're going to feel what all human beings are designed to feel, which is that sense of enclosure, that sense of I am held in a web of meaning and that feeling just right, like that feeling unearthly creativity, joy, like stuff begins to flow when we get out of our own way.

And I just love how this practice, too. I never thought of this. You're getting referrals from all parts of the the health care system, neurologists, cardiologist. You're getting different levels of people here. The I'm just fascinated as to how deep you go with them. What gets unearthed. You know, I know as a psychedelic practitioner that the person I see like Pam, you just mentioned, the person you see at the first contact is going to be different. Yeah. Always following ways you could not have.

And it's all right. You're just sitting there from, like, having a memory of that exact moment, maybe three weeks ago, maybe a month or two months ago, going is a different person. It's it's startling. It's striking. We had this is one of my favorite stories because it makes me practically cry every time I tell it. But we had a woman that came for an individual ceremony, so those are higher dose. We do the same prep and follow up and such, but for people who really want an individual, experience is a five plus gram.

So it's a pretty significant journey. She had a long, a very long history of sexual abuse throughout her childhood into adulthood and effectively wore a wonderful mask of being the supporter, the people pleaser, the comedian. And she was just ready, you know, she was using alcohol to sort of cover a lot of the things that she did not want to look at. She came to the to church frightened. You know, most people come in a little uneasy. And if they didn't, I think would be a little concerned that how come you're not concerned because, you know, it's a wholly unknown territory.

You know what's going to happen. She was concerned that she'd fall apart, you know, a million little pieces. Not only did she not do that, but she mostly sat under a tree. We have a tree. That's our sitting tree. Its name is author. That. That's a long story. But she sat under Arthur for about four hours, essentially without moving, much so, tears streaming down her face, a big smile on her face, and now she's coming out of her experi ence, she said with big bright eyes. Who am I now without this burden?

Welcome home. So you know. And she's been doing integrated practice. You know, it makes me know that's how it is. It's breathtaking and it's durable. Well, and it is durable. And that's why I really do believe that this is root cause medicine. Because unlike pharmaceuticals, the more you use them, the less you need to achieve the same benefit. So it really is healing people in very sustainable long term ways. Yeah, I love that. I love what you just oh my gosh to see your burden as separate from your self and to see that you're not your burden, that there is space there.

And then to when people even confront that idea for the first time to recognize that that's even possible. And not only is it possible, you can you can grow that space and then you can let that burden go. I mean, you know, as a pediatrician, I've worked in trauma centers. I have, since my early training,

Microdosing Pairings and Protocols 31:30

recognized that there's so much abuse and trauma that goes not just unseen, but unlabeled. And a lot of high functioning adults, as you described, are suppressing symptoms. You know, sometimes like depression and anxiety are coming up because there's just this unspoken unlabeled because when they're children and it happened, there was no word for it. You know, there was no recognition that this is wrong in some people's minds. They were, you know, they're they're still the person that invited that, you know, the child had in mind that although and so that kind of fracture remains.

And when we can heal that fracture, when we can let that go and we can bring those parts of ourselves together. I mean, this is just like a new lease on life. You're talking about a new lease on life. It really, truly is. I like to pardon my language, but when I describe this to people, it's like you're stuck in this river of shit. You know your feet, you're up to your knees, you can't move it above your eyes. You can't see, can't smell. It's all over. The mushrooms help take you out of the river and put you on the bank.

You can still see the river. You can still see all the garbage in it. But it doesn't own you anymore. You can put the bags down and start working on your healing and it's just amazing to watch. Yeah. So with that, tell me about how you lead a person through that. How do you, you know, prepare. What are some of the and I know you mentioned there were the three pairings of of the sacrament. And so if you would like to just kind of, you know, give us kind of a 30,000ft overview of what people can expect and, and how you frame this kind of healing.

You know, what are some of the ideas that are connecting with people, right? As they start to recognize that there is something here of value. So we we have the two options. So people come to us either they're cause they're interested in microdosing. So those people are usually a little either a little timid, want to see if this medicine is safe and tolerable, etc., or they feel like they just need some fine tuning. And we have the three. I'm going to do some show and tell. Well, Leah talks about the three pairings, but then we do the the larger ceremony.

So we do a small group up to six people. So there's always a 3 to 1 ratio. And that dosage is 2 to 3g of whole mushrooms served in a tea. So this is a good psychedelic experience, but you're not off in a different universe than we do individuals, where it's the two of us and just the individual, and that starts at five grams. And those are usually for people who are very, very stuck and need a big kind of breakthrough. So I'm going to grab some show and tell them we get up, so to speak, a little bit about the experience of when people do a mini dose or a macro dose, but we have a full process where we I do a medical intake on all of these individuals and make sure that I go through their medications and their supplements and also get into like, well, why are you wanting to do this?

And what things, what traumas have you experienced that have the potential to come up? And so that I have a greater understanding that where they're coming from, because Pam and I are aligned in this, that we don't believe that there's any bad trips, there's difficult experiences, but it is all about set and setting. And so a huge part of that is understanding where they're coming at or where they're coming from, what they're coming with, so that we have a better understanding of how to support them when they are on journey.

So we do the medical intake, we do an integration before they actually go on journey. We have a wonderful journey experience where we do, you know, we gather everybody up and go up to church and we do breathwork, we do body movement, we do mindfulness even before we get into journey. So people are in that really good space. And then, like Pam said, we serve sacrament in the form of a tea. So then once everybody has their tea, that takes about 15 or 20 minutes for the effects to start coming on board, and that's when everybody disperses a little bit more.

We have lots of cozy nooks and comforting spaces and warm blankets, and there's a hot tub if you want to sit in the hot tub. In the summertime, there's a pool. But we have swing sets wherever you want to be. And then we support you in that journey space, and then everybody comes back together after they start coming down. We have a really wonderful meal. Know there's. I transport everybody back to their homes or have people come and pick them up. And then we do integration the week after, and then we do ongoing integration through the church as well.

So we'll do individual integration after that journey. And then we also have integration circles where they can come and talk about how that is participating. So that's more of our mini and macro dosing experiences. But for those that are wanting to participate in microdosing I've formulated three pairings. One is called the calm pairing. So this is peace and harmony. You can see a student show and tell. So this is to help open up cognitive pathways specifically for people that are tend towards more anxiety.

So we have both the psilocybin part of it which is in the green bottles. And then we also have a supplement version that is also taken as well. So the supplement version is taken every single day. This is to help with the integration. So it has supportive herbs and nutrients in it to help the psilocybin basically work better for these individuals and be more sustainable. So in the comparing we have our proprietary psilocybin blend. It also has Rishi and Lion's Mane in it. So reishi is one of the most profound functional mushrooms that is really good for supporting immune system function but really calming down that nervous system.

And then lion's mane is really good at helping decrease neuroinflammation as well as supporting new neurocognitive pathways. And then the supplement version, the Harmony pairing. This has reishi and lion's mane in it as well. To carry that through. And then it also has ashwagandha which is a calming adaptogen. It has l-theanine which is an amazing amino acid that's super good for help putting the brakes on the choline receptors. And then it also has Tilia or Linden tree, which is one of my favorite calming nerve.

And so really, really good for calm in that nervous system. This is for the anxious brain. The ruminative brain, like won't shut down the go, go, go, which we very often experience in health care providers as well. So this is a really great one for supporting them. The next pairing that we have is called introspect. Now, introspection is all about helping heal that trauma wound. So this is very much for people that have a long history of trauma or traumatic events that have happened in their life.

Which medical school is one of them? You know, this is really great because it is both stimulating and calming at the same time. So it helps stir things up, but then gives you that soothing hug so that, you can deal with it, you can manage it and see it in a beautiful way and not be overwhelmed by it. So the, psilocybin blend again, has our proprietary blend in it that it also has chaga, which is another functional mushroom, which is the eternal life mushroom based on traditional Chinese medicine.

So great for vitality, great for boosting the immune system function, great for calming neural inflammation, but gives you a little bit more stimulating effect and then it also has cordyceps in it for a substance, another type of functional mushroom that is all about endurance and strength and fortitude and energy. So that's the psilocybin blend. And then the excuse me, the supplement blend has holy basil in it, or tulsi, which is so good for helping people move through transitional times in their lives.

It also has go to Kola which not only is great for helping heal cellular tissue and healing wounds, but from a physical aspect, but it also has from an energetic perspective of healing, healing, emotional wounds. And then it also has Mother War and Mother wards. The Latin name is Lee and artist Kartikeya, so it is the lion heart. So you can basically think about having that vitality, that vigor, but also being held by your mother so that calm, safe place to be able to go through that as well. And then we have another pairing.

Yeah. Our focus pairing is great. So this is formulated for kind of two different types of people. Those that are stuck on the couch with their depression. But also those that have, you know, are neurodivergent. So there's a lot of us out here, 1 in 4. I'm one of them. So this is a really great pairing to help bring in focus into individuals, help them, give them some more energy as well. So the the psilocybin part of it also has lion's mane and niacin. So it has lion's mane it to help with those new neural pathways.

But it also has niacin which is a vasodilator. So it helps get blood flow to those little teeny neurons in our brain as well. And then the supplement version of it has chaga, has cordyceps has rhodiola and ginger. So all of these are going to be very warm and very stimulating, you know, both adaptogens and nerve signs in there as well. So it helps really warm the system. If you're stuck in a rut, it gives you the energy that you need to move throughout the day. This is especially important for people that go to that second, third, fourth cup of coffee.

Also, the people that don't have the energy to get out of bed. This can be a really, really valuable thing for just giving them a booster smooch to get going, during the day. And then also help heal those emotional wounds. So maybe, Leo, you could also go, because the supplement we take every day and, the psilocybin is taking on a pulsing schedule similar

Outcomes, Research, and Membership Details 42:30

to protocols that are published out there like the and Paul Stamets. But Leah created one that was working well for her patients, which is the one we recommend. Yeah. So the protocol again, the Stamets stack is very well known. I mean, there's lots of different protocols for microdosing out there, but the one that I created, I found really valuable because it kind of gets people going. So we do a one, two, three. I created a one, two, three protocol. So, to one day on, one day off, two days on, two days off, three days on, three days off.

And then you get a whole nother week of a washout. So it's ten days off of the protocol. So basically you get a little boost and then you have the ability to let your nervous system reset and then you get more of a boost. And then again we settle and we focus again. And then we get a really big boost. And then we take ten days off to let that integration of our neural pattern to actually settle in versus just staying going on it, because that can be a little bit too disruptive for people because there isn't like how how do I incorporate how do I make this sustainable change?

And we want it to be something that is comfortable, but also kind of pushes you in a way. Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh, thank you so much for that. Because it's really making me recognize that you've really thought about it. You really just considered it from the patient perspective. What is the patient actually going through? Are they needing a boost to get off the couch every day? And here's something that they can take or are they needing to just feel more balanced and focused and uncluttered in the mind?

And just a way of really mixing and matching I love this just the just the way you went through all of them there, it all just made sense to me as I, you know, as I've read some of these things too. And I honestly can't wait to try my own, you know, the ordering some from you know, because this is fantastic. This is it. You know, this is, this is and just a care even to recognize that like you said, that we give the boost but then we rest, we give the boost and then we rest. There's a pulsing quality to healing.

And it's really, you know, really recognizing that the human being is always pulsing, right? Like our hearts are passing, our breath is pulsing, the earth is pulsing, you know, and that everything in nature, even a flower that's that's opening, is opening and then closing a little opening and closing a little. And I, I'm reminded that this is about a developing a relationship with whatever you're putting in your body and how sacred that is, and how just the act of doing that brings us into focus with what I put into my body matters.

Right? Because so much of what we do with our bodies, just like kind of automated, it's like, oh, there's this that I see for this, and it looks like it might do something good for my body, but we know it doesn't, you know, all those mismatched signals that we swim in every day. Right. And here is this ability to kind of oh, no, you're you're putting things in your body that are coming there, that are focusing, that are connecting, that are going to be working together and recognizing that the work right kind of happens at that edge of where those neurons are, what's happening at that kind of molecular level, and things are shifting and changing and you can feel it.

Well, and I think that the body knows how to be well, we just need to find the right tools to help them be useful and. Well. And this again, is the most profound and beautiful medicine I have ever participated in. And so thank you also for what you're doing, because this is this is the profound shift that we why we became healers, you know, is to actually heal people or help them move themselves. Right? We don't heal anybody, but we can teach them how to heal themselves. How beautiful that is, how beautiful it is.

Absolutely like. And Pam, you also mentioned, like, we get to discover this, this body that we have already knows already has a set of instructions, a set of tools, instead of just just connections to everything. And there's like this deep knowledge. And as we dive deeper and deeper inward, I think people recognize over and over again that, oh, this is the part that matters of this is okay. The rest of everything will figure itself out, and I'll actually be able to arrive in this world in a way better able to deal with what the world has done to me.

And it's really like, you know, you're taking the narrative and you're turning it over on its head. You're not saying to the person, oh, you're broken, and we're going to fix you. You've said, you know how to heal and you're suffering, and we're here to hold you like there's a radical shift and what that means. And we've seen those transformations. And I'm so thankful to two of you for doing what you do and really bringing this care to this entire spectrum, not just the medical, but making sure that there is a community, that there is a sacramental kind of sacred relationship with the mushroom.

And even I think, respecting how our ancestors have carried the mushroom medicine, but not our particular ancestors, but human ancestors as we know, this, this kind of healing has been discovered, rediscovered, held in so many different communities and cultures that we can really say that this is a universal element in healing. And it's just, you know, to hold this here in this space, in this time, as a psychedelic renaissance is ongoing, is to really be in the vanguard, is really to be in a strong place of saying, no, this is what healing is, and this is we can demonstrate it, we believe in it, and and here are the people to to show you this is real and and we we may be like the past, but we aren't the paths and we don't do everything.

So we have a community of practitioners. So yoga instructors and sound healers and energy healers and psychedelic assisted therapy therapists. So where people need additional support, we can confidently recommend people that understand what we're doing, that understand what the people are going through, which just expands their community and their support network. I'd like to end with one last question, and really a curiosity is I hope you're recording your outcomes. I hope you are gathering the the stories, the, you know, just just the data that's that's coming out of your practice in some way.

You know, because I'm surprised at how many people will have hypertension, you know, before they deal, before they go into this medicine. Right. And six weeks later, the hypertension is gone. And they are just they no longer have this quote unquote diagnosis, right? So that we are literally, you know, changing people's bodies. And so I hope we're we're looking at that. We did just publish a short case study with naturopathic doctor news and Review, and we'll be doing a summit with them as well. A lot of it has to do with our individual cases.

So there definitely is more interest and we are very open to sharing as much as we can because why wouldn't you? Here is a really safe approach to a lot of different ailments that plague us as humanity. People need to know about it and need to know how it can help. Absolutely. And again this is addressing the system not the symptoms. Even though the symptoms say you know to get healed for themselves too. But yeah we we document it. You can see also on our website that we have a long host of testimonials that have come through that people are willing and offering to let us publish them.

And it's again, it's the most profound medicine that I have ever participated. And so yes, we are that complete them. So one last thing before we close, just for clarification. So because we operate under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, all of our information is free to anybody at all. But if one would want to participate in sacrament at any level, you must become a member of our church. That is the protection mechanism. So we operate in the sincere practice and you as a member can then claim that you do the same and it offers you protection as well.

It costs nothing at all. It's just a protection step. So anyone's welcome to join the church. There are no requirements, there is no cost whatsoever. And the R3 protection is a federal law. So anyone in the United States can be protected by this. So you can come to our website which is Satis Seminary as a seminary I c m I n r y.org. And there is a button right at the top that says become a member. 30 it's an online form. You just fill it out and then you have federal protection. Wonderful. Well, thank you to both of you for taking the time today to share, to just let us know that there's so much hope that this is possible, that healing of this kind can be done and can be done beautifully with open hearts and open minds and really recognizing that, we're holding so much hope and promise and of healing that I'm just I'm just in total gratitude for today's exploration and my cup is full.

So thank you so much. I thank you so much for having us. We really appreciate being here. Yeah. Thank you so much for everything you shared today. I hope our listeners will enjoy and and look you up and get on the healing path. So thank you that that thanks for joining us on the two QS and the podcast. We hope today's episode inspired you to ask new questions and explore fresh perspectives. We challenge you to ask us those and ask questions that you're curious about in your medical practice, condition, health, and wellness.

If you enjoyed the podcast, don't forget to subscribe! Share it with somebody just as curious and leave us a review. It helps us keep the curiosity alive. Lister. Comment with a question or curious inquiry that you have and seek to explore or learn with us. Stay curious and we'll see you next time.