Full Transcript Introduction and guest background 0:00 Hi and welcome to another episode of the Healing Lyme Summit. 0:02 I'm your host, Doctor Myriah Hinchey, 0:05 and today we have Doctor Nancy O'Hara joining us. 0:09 We are going to talk about pans, pandas and basal ganglia encephalitis 0:14 and how many vector borne diseases can actually be the underlying 0:18 trigger for this disorder, including Lyme disease. 0:22 Doctor Nancy O'Hara is a board certified pediatrician who specializes in treating 0:27 pans, pandas, and basal ganglia encephalitis, 0:30 as well as other neurodevelopmental disorders. 0:34 She's the leading trainer 0:35 and mentor of clinicians in the United States and globally. 0:39 And she educates medical professionals to recognize, diagnose, 0:44 and treat pans, pandas and basal ganglia, and satellite us. 0:48 She has a comprehensive mentorship and membership program. 0:54 For more information on those, you can reach out to her at doctor 0:58 O'Hara dot com. 0:59 That's WW reader o hra.com. 1:05 Doctor O'Hara has also written a comprehensive 1:09 guidebook called Demystifying Pans and Pandas of Functional Medicine 1:13 Desktop Reference on Basal Ganglia in Satellites, 1:17 which is available on Amazon in both 1:20 e-book and softcover form. 1:23 And recently, she just released her audio book that has five additional 1:28 chapters on Bartonella, the Busia Covid 1:31 mold and cerebral folate deficiency. 1:34 You can find this audiobook anywhere that you can get audiobooks, including Amazon. 1:39 Welcome, doctor O'Hara. 1:41 It's such an honor to have you here and tell our listeners 1:45 a little bit more about yourself and, share anything you'd like to share. 1:49 Okay. Thanks, Mariah. 1:50 It's always good to join you. 1:52 And thanks for doing this. 1:54 You know, I got into pans and pandas, 1:56 as you know, because my own son devolved into seizure like ticks 2:02 after getting a Borrelia positive 2:05 tick bite, strep throat, and a virus. 2:08 So I became very passionate about that, this disease almost 17 years ago now. 2:14 And I'm also very passionate about other tick borne diseases because 2:18 I have seen, you know, in my own son, I miss Bartonella back then. 2:21 And it wasn't until he got the stretch marks that I saw it. 2:25 And so it became much harder 2:26 to treat many years later and then mold and then Covid. 2:31 And so it's very important to me 2:35 that we educate practitioners on how to understand 2:39 and assess this disease appropriately and leave no stone unturned. 2:44 And that's why 2:45 when I was asked three years ago when I wrote the book to do an audiobook, 2:50 and I couldn't stand to hear my own voice, so I was not ready to do that 2:54 and was getting lots of other people to try to record it for me. 2:59 And finally succumbed and recorded it myself. 3:02 But what was important to me is so much I have learned,
Immune dysfunction behind PANS and PANDAS 3:05 even over the last few years, since writing it on 3:08 the increased incidence of Bartonella in Derbyshire. 3:11 So I wanted to be even more specific on those. 3:14 Really be specific on the assessment and treatment of mold 3:18 and mold, mycotoxins, disease and then Covid. 3:21 When I started writing, the book wasn't even a problem. 3:24 And that is reactivated so many other dormant diseases. 3:27 And then, as you know, Doctor Wells 3:29 and I wrote the article this summer on Fallait receptor 3:33 alpha antibodies in Pams and Pandas, not just in children with autism. 3:38 So that's why I did the audio book and happy for people to listen to it. 3:43 A quick story my husband downloaded it the other day, and I went in 3:46 to take a shower, and I came back out and he was snoring profusely. 3:51 And I thought, well, that that's one board and book for you. 3:54 And, and he, 3:55 of course turned around to say, no, no, no, your voice just sue this bee. 4:00 And I was just going to say lacks it. 4:02 I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. 4:03 Anyway, hopefully it won't put 4:05 any of your listeners to sleep if they try to get it. 4:08 And yeah, it's available on Amazon, audible, Spotify everywhere. 4:13 Now. It's so funny. 4:14 Now I can say in the gosh, it's I guess it's been 17 years that I've known you. 4:20 And you were you were one of my very first mentors. 4:24 I don't think I've ever seen you put anyone to sleep, so 4:28 we're gonna have to go with your status. 4:30 Your soothing voice on that one. Exactly. 4:33 So, you know, it's interesting to me. 4:36 And I'm glad that you added all of those things into your book, 4:40 because I think the one common denominator 4:43 with all of it is immune dysfunction. 4:46 And I remember when I first learned 4:49 about pandas, not even pants, but pandas. 4:53 I was like, there's gotta be like, it doesn't make sense that the body 4:57 can't get rid of this strap, you know, especially after using antibiotics. 5:02 And then fast forward 5:03 through my whole career and my moment where I was like, oh my God. 5:07 Like, once you have Lyme, you always have Lyme because no one's 5:10 addressing the immune dysfunction and restoring immune 5:15 resilience or immune competency, like whatever you want to call it. 5:19 It's like all these antibiotics are doing, like even with pens, you're 5:22 shrinking the load of the infection. 5:24 Therefore the symptoms get better. 5:27 But then as soon as you stop because the immune system 5:30 isn't functioning properly, to stop it from regrowing, 5:35 it just researches, you know, over whatever the course of time is for 5:40 that patient, really dependent on how messed up their immune system is. 5:44 So, you know, today we're going to talk about the intricacies of the immune system 5:49 and what these infections do to the immune system and etc. 5:52 and I'm just so excited to talk to you about it all. But, 5:56 you know, important for the listeners to really just keep in mind, 5:59 like this is immune system dysfunction, not just an infection. 6:04 Yeah. And that's such a key point. 6:07 And and I think when we think about it as immune dysregulation 6:12 that may be triggered by an infection 6:16 or a metabolic cause, like mold, like anesthesia, 6:21 like pesticides, it's really about the immune system. 6:25 So I think parents get overwhelmed when we talk about the big three 6:30 BS of tick borne disease Borrelia, Bartonella and bees, 6:34 and mold and viruses when all of that. 6:37 But if you instead think about it as an immune system disorder 6:42 and really helping the immune system, and as you and I both know, as many 6:47 of your listeners know, the immune system, like everything else starts in the gut. 6:51 And so if we're not taking care of the gut, 6:55 in so many ways that that you, among many others, 6:58 have taught me as well as the brain and the body in general. 7:02 But if we're not taking care of the gut, 7:04 we're not taking care of the immune system well enough. 7:07 70% minimum of the immune system starts in the gut. 7:11 Our neurotransmitters start in the gut. 7:14 So yeah, the idea of putting an antibiotic on this disease and calling it a day, 7:20 even if they get better, is just a recipe for disaster. 7:24 Because the second, third, fourth iteration 7:27 of this, the tick borne disease that goes more dormant 7:31 because you just put one antibiotic on it rather than using herbals
PANS vs. PANDAS and diagnostic criteria 7:36 and modified citrus pectin and so many other things to treat it, 7:40 you're you're going to end up with a child that's worse later on. 7:45 Yeah, I couldn't agree more. 7:47 So let's start out by talking basics. 7:50 So pansies is sort of like the umbrella right. 7:55 And then we have pandas as a more specific illness caused by strep. 8:01 So kind of walk us through the difference between pans and pandas. 8:06 And then we'll talk about how a lot of these 8:09 vector borne diseases could be the underlying trigger. 8:12 So pandas was the one that was first, given the acronym standing for Pediatric 8:19 autoimmune Neuropsychiatric Disorders associated with strep. 8:23 So when you think about that in particular, 8:26 let's say a child gets a strep throat, most children, 8:30 you put them on the antibiotic or an antimicrobial herb and they get better. 8:36 But in a small group of children they instead have a misdirected 8:40 immune response. 8:42 Molecular mimicry, where the antibodies or the proteins, 8:46 instead of just attacking the strep in the throat 8:49 or wherever else it may be, instead attack the brain 8:53 and specifically the basal ganglia, which leads to the symptoms 8:57 of particularly OCD or restrictive eating disorder. 9:01 So, you know, an OCD type eating disorder where they're afraid of contamination 9:06 or choking or only want to eat green foods or whatever. 9:10 And then two other symptoms, and I'll go over those when I talk about pans. 9:15 But pandas was very controversial and people were finding, 9:20 oh, there's these other infections that do the same thing. 9:23 So they had initially labeled that patients pediatric 9:27 infection triggered autoimmune neuropsychiatric disorders. 9:31 And that included Mycoplasma, Lyme 9:36 viruses and other diseases. 9:38 And then there were a group of children that also got worse, 9:42 like when we were spraying pesticides for West Nile virus. 9:46 There was a large group in a community. 9:48 And so in 2012, 30 clinicians, researchers 9:52 together with Saucedo, got together and tried to make it less controversial 9:56 and put everything under the umbrella of pans. 10:00 And that was pediatric abrupt on set neuropsychiatric syndrome. 10:05 And by definition, it should still be abrupt onset. 10:08 But we'll get to that later. 10:09 And, you know, it's OCD of an abrupt or dramatic onset or recurrent. 10:15 So a big change in OCD, even if you've had it before 10:19 or 20% in in our practice, it's over 10:21 30% with a D eating disorder. 10:25 And two of the following separation anxiety. 10:29 Emotional lability. 10:30 You know that 0 to 60 they're fine one minute and raging 10:34 or depressed crying the next. 10:37 The abrupt onset of school performance issues 10:41 like you could have an abrupt onset of A.D.D., 10:43 you know, all of a sudden they were getting A's, 10:45 and now they're getting D's, and they're in la la land. 10:48 Brain fog processing issues, especially then motor problems. 10:53 And one of the path mnemonic signs is an abrupt change in handwriting. 10:58 So all of a sudden, they're handwriting changes. 11:01 They're reversing things. 11:02 They're they're much messier. 11:05 They neglect if they're right handed, they neglect the left hand side of the paper. 11:10 And with those motor abnormalities come tics. 11:12 And that can be one of the, the, the things. 11:16 And then if you have one of those together with a somatic symptoms, 11:20 you have an abrupt onset of bedwetting in a child that was previously dry 11:24 or other urinary changes, frequency, urgency, pain 11:29 or a sleep problem like what is called REM disinhibition. 11:33 That's really restless sleep. 11:35 They never get into that deep, restorative sleep. 11:38 And so they're having trouble sleeping, waking at night, night terrors, etc.. 11:44 So OCD, abrupt, dramatic onset of recurrence 11:48 together with two of those others. 11:49 That's this diagnosis. 11:51 Now where it gets tricky is the acute part. 11:56 And I would say, particularly as we're talking in this Lyme summit, 12:00 when we talk about tick borne disease, as we both know, 12:04 that can be much more indolent, that can be much more subacute. 12:09 Also, mold certainly can be. 12:11 So I think in the Pans and Pandas community, unfortunately, 12:15 because both tick borne disease and pans 12:19 pandas have become controversial for lots of reasons. 12:23 We can discuss the Lyme piece of it often gets forgotten by many, 12:28 especially allopathic conventional physicians, 12:32 and not tested appropriately because, as we both know, 12:35 very little can be done with conventional lab testing. 12:38 And then the other subacute that I just want to mention is often 12:42 that acute occurrence is the first one, 12:45 and it can happen when they're 2 or 3. 12:48 And if it gets treated easily with one course of his if or mice 12:51 and when they have a strep throat and they look at the behavioral changes 12:55 as if that was just the terrible twos for a little bit and it's over, 13:00 then the second and third iteration later can be much more subacute. 13:06 So what's important is to find that acute onset somewhere in the history 13:11 and then treat appropriately with treating the symptoms, 13:16 treating the underlying trigger or triggers, 13:19 but most importantly treating the immune dysregulation. 13:24 Right. 13:24 And that's the three pronged approach 13:26 that is necessary to heal someone from pans or pandas. 13:30 Yeah. Okay. 13:32 So what is the sort of laundry 13:35 list of vector borne diseases that you see in addition 13:39 to mold and environmental toxins that can be triggers? 13:43 Yeah, I think it depends on what area of the country you're in as to 13:46 what will be the most prevalent in the northeast, where we are 13:51 certainly Borrelia, Bartonella and Busia. 13:54 We know now that more than 41% of the ticks carry Busia. 13:59 And we're seeing more reports of A, B, zero locally, which may just come up 14:04 in testing as babesiosis species because we have no direct test for it.
Vector-borne triggers and symptom clues 14:09 And then 42% when we last measured it. 14:12 In our practice of children who have autoimmune 14:16 encephalitis also have Bartonella in other areas of the country, like I just 14:21 took care of a child with, in Arkansas that got tick bites there. 14:25 Then it may be Rocky Mountain Spotted fever. 14:29 It may still be Baeza and Borrelia. 14:32 In other areas it may be relapsing fevers. 14:35 So it really depends on where you are. 14:38 I find, at least for me, the large majority of kids with pans 14:44 with neuropsychiatric issues 14:47 have usually Bartonella, but easier together with one of the others 14:52 or more than one like for rally, or relapsing fever, etc.. 14:57 Okay. And then what about mycoplasma? 15:00 Absolutely. Okay. 15:01 Thank you for the reminder. 15:02 Yes, I often don't think about mycoplasma as a tick borne disease, 15:06 but as we both know it is, and we've had a run on it 15:09 all over the country, actually all over the world. 15:12 I have parents in Australia and, and England where they've 15:17 they've had a big increase in mycoplasma this summer. 15:22 Even so, mycoplasma traditionally 15:26 is the second most common cause after strep. 15:29 I just think especially where we live, and maybe because of the length of time 15:35 it takes people to see me, I don't see as much strap. 15:38 I see much more mycoplasma bibs and Bartonella. 15:43 Yeah. 15:45 So what are the big differences between basal ganglia 15:49 and satellite as like that's triggered by a vector borne disease 15:53 or a tick borne disease versus a different infection? 15:58 I think one, the presentation can be different. 16:01 As I said, it could be more subacute or indolent 16:04 as opposed to just an abrupt onset. 16:08 The second is the majority of those 16:11 children will have some form of agar pain, 16:15 meaning migratory pains, joint pains, headaches, 16:21 some form of arthropod 16:23 V, meaning not necessarily arthritis. 16:27 And there was an interesting paper by more looking at pandas 16:31 and the children with strep that had these type of pains. 16:35 And I think the, my opinion is that they were really missing vector 16:41 borne diseases. 16:42 And although they were looking for mycoplasma and not finding that 16:46 and looking for Borrelia, which in some of our conventional labs, 16:50 if you're doing an immuno blot as opposed to a Western blot, 16:53 could certainly be found. 16:55 But in 30 years of practice, I've had one conventional lab 16:58 positivity of a zero and zero of Bartonella. 17:03 And so you have to look at the symptoms. 17:07 And so I do see different symptoms also with Bartonella and babesiosis. 17:12 So when I look at symptoms with Bartonella, one of the things we see 17:17 was strep or mycoplasma induced let's call it pans or basal ganglia. 17:21 And litis is we will often see an episodic nature, a waxing 17:26 and waning with Bartonella that can be much more of a daily flare. 17:31 The second thing is rage and aggression can be part of this. 17:35 And when it is, Bartonella needs to be thought about. 17:39 The third thing is the heels and the soles of the feet. 17:43 I often will hear that from children with Bartonella or their roll up their socks. 17:49 If they can't verbalize what they're feeling, that is almost always Bartonella. 17:54 And then, as we both know, 17:56 certainly the blanching stretch marks that don't follow dermal lines. 18:00 And if you've had a pediatrician or other allopathic physician who has said to you, 18:06 oh, that's just weight changes or 18:09 adrenal stress, they are different. 18:12 Those stretch marks follow dermal lines, meaning they'll they'll be sort of 18:17 in a knot, horizontal or vertical pattern, more of a sideways pattern. 18:23 They'll traditionally be on the hips or the trunk 18:27 or the back and they will not blanch. 18:30 So when you press on them, they won't change color. 18:33 Bartonella real stretch marks, if they're stretch marks from wheat or adrenal. 18:38 But with Bartonella they do not follow dermal lines. 18:41 So they're usually either vertical or horizontal. 18:44 And they blanch. 18:45 So when you press on them, they change color. 18:48 So those really I look for and ask about all the time. 18:52 And then with Baeza what I see is the night sweats. 18:57 And I recently had a child that hadn't even told his parents 19:00 about the night sweats. 19:01 He would actually get up every morning because he was so embarrassed by it 19:04 and change his own sheets and never told them. 19:08 So you really got a probe about that? 19:10 And the disordered know me in general, meaning those are the kids that are more 19:15 pots like they have more dizziness, nausea, GI symptoms. 19:21 They may or may not faint or have heart rate 19:25 changes in from laying down to standing up. 19:29 They may well have that air hunger that that not just with anxiety 19:34 where they feel they can't get the breath, but all the time. 19:37 And those unrelenting headaches that that pressure headache, among others. 19:42 So I'm mentioning all those symptoms very specifically. 19:46 And I also want to talk about mycoplasma in just a second. 19:49 But but because it's so hard to know 19:53 whether this is there by testing, especially if you 19:56 don't have a practitioner that can do specialty testing. 19:59 I have many patients that I've now mentored that we've treated 20:04 based on symptoms, never getting the tests and gotten them better. 20:09 So that's really important. 20:11 And then the last thing I wanted to say about mycoplasma, thinking about it 20:14 as a vector borne disease, is that many of our children 20:18 have no symptoms of pneumonia, bronchitis, sinusitis. 20:23 But grandpa may be in the hospital with pneumonia, or mom has walking pneumonia 20:29 and she got better with a macrolide antibiotic or something like that. 20:33 And the child just has a behavioral change overnight. 20:37 That could well be mycoplasma. 20:39 Make sure you test for it, because there may be 20:43 no symptoms of the actual infection in the child. 20:46 Remembering again, it's an immune reaction child and they've been exposed to it. 20:52 But they build up the antibodies. 20:54 Those antibodies or proteins then are what caused the symptoms, 20:58 not the infection itself. Right. 21:01 And I think it's important to to tell our listeners, 21:03 because we cover this, you know, in other episodes of this Lyme summit, 21:07 but, you know, less than 50% of people who are diagnosed with Lyme 21:12 or a co-infection remember seeing a tick or remember having a bite. 21:17 And I think the number is even lower than that. 21:21 So if you're sitting here thinking, well, my child never had a tick bite. 21:24 So none of this applies to me. 21:26 I'm sorry, but you're wrong. 21:28 And then if you say, okay, well, we've been to the doctor, like, say, 21:31 you know, you did remember a tick bite. 21:33 Or even if you didn't, you've been tested. 21:36 These conventional tests that are available through, 21:40 you know, the local labs and even hospitals, 21:44 they are not looking for all of the species of Borrelia. 21:47 So they're trying to say, okay, you don't have Lyme disease. 21:50 But instead of looking at all 20 species, 21:53 we've looked at 1 or 2 and are just, you know, 21:59 extrapolating that information and covering the, 22:02 you know, the whole spectrum here. 22:04 And testing for Lyme definitely does not test for rabies, your Bartonella, 22:09 Mycoplasma or Licky and a plasma Rocky Mountain spotted fever, 22:13 any of these other bacteria and or parasites. 22:17 And so you really do need to get tested 22:20 by, a validated conventional, I'm sorry, 22:24 specialty lab that knows what they're doing. 22:27 And not only is looking 22:29 for every different organism, but for every different species 22:33 of each organism before you can completely rule it out. 22:37 And not to go off on a tangent, 22:39 but there are patients who are seronegative and there's no tests. 22:42 That's 100% accurate. 22:44 And all of these things are clinical diagnosis. 22:49 So for anyone who's listening, make sure that you take all 22:53 of those points into consideration. 22:55 If your child has basal ganglia, encephalitis pans, pandas. 22:59 And by the way, it is basal ganglia encephalitis, whether we're talking 23:03 about pandas or pandas. 23:05 So correct me if I'm wrong, but 23:09 it's all basal ganglia encephalitis. 23:11 It's just whether strep is involved or a different 23:15 infectious trigger is an absolutely, absolutely. 23:18 And I think those were all wonderful points. 23:21 And I think a couple of others. 23:22 One, to your point, tics are the size of poppy seeds. 23:26 And we now know that a tick does not have to be on for 24 hours or more. 23:31 It could be on for a very short period of time and still transmit the disease. 23:37 Second, when you do find a tick and 23:40 get it tested, put it in a baggie and send it to, 23:44 in my opinion, tick report.com same and ask for all of the species. 23:51 Because if you take it 23:52 to your local health department, often, all they're testing for is Borrelia. 23:56 And at least in our area of the northeast, again, it's 23:59 as much Bartonella in bbca in these ticks as it is Borrelia. 24:03 And you'll miss that if you're only measuring in the tick 24:07 for Borrelia two third to your point,
Herbal treatment strategies and clinical experience 24:10 at least 30% of these children also have immunodeficiency. 24:15 So if you're only doing antibody testing, whether it be antibodies in the blood 24:20 for mycoplasma or antibodies for any of the tick borne diseases, 24:24 you may well miss it because they may not be able 24:28 to mount that immune response. 24:31 And so again, why we both like IRBs so much. 24:36 You know, you can treat these diseases safely, 24:40 effectively, completely, and treat the immune system 24:44 without destroying the gut in the process, as you may well do with antibiotics. 24:49 And then the last thing I would say is don't ever tell either one of us. 24:54 Well, I never had the rash, so it can't be right. 24:57 Number one, you can have Bartonella without the stretch marks. 25:00 Number two, only 20% of children 25:04 get the rash when they have Borrelia. 25:06 And number three, there's no rash of a BCR. 25:09 So, you know, please don't depend on either 25:12 just conventional lab testing or even some of the specialty testing. 25:17 You know, these diseases also, particularly Bartonella baeza, go dormant, 25:23 go deep within biofilms, parasites, tissues within the body. 25:28 And if you're just again doing an immuno blot 25:31 or an antibody test, you may well miss it. 25:35 So being a great clinician 25:39 or even a decent one is all about getting the history, 25:43 being a detective, and using the N in front of you, meaning the child 25:48 or patient in front of you to decide 25:51 what to do and and how to do it. 25:55 It's not necessarily about the data 25:58 in anything that involves pans, pandas, or vector borne diseases. 26:04 Okay, so 26:05 reiterating what the three pronged treatment approach is, right? 26:10 So obviously we want to deal with the acute symptoms that are going on. 26:15 We need to deal with whatever infection is there. 26:18 And then we also need to fix the immune dysfunction. 26:21 So I know that you as well as I like herbs are my medicine along with lifestyle. 26:26 I know that you use a lot of herbal medicine in your practice as well. 26:30 Can you kind of like walk us through what your favorite herbs are 26:34 and how they fit into that three pronged approach? 26:38 Sure. 26:38 So, I have many herbs that I love, and it's not usually about any one herb. 26:44 You need a combination of herbs, and you also need a combination of herbs 26:49 that that you feel treat those vector borne diseases 26:55 or other diseases that you think are most likely in this patient. 27:00 So and there's a lot of research on it. 27:02 There are so many articles, you know, the one by Zhang looking at one 27:07 of my favorites which is crypto lapis And Crypto Lapis is great for Bbca, 27:12 but it's also very good for Borrelia and has some Bartonella coverage. 27:16 Also Japanese knotweed together with cat's claw, 27:19 very good for Borrelia and Bartonella. 27:22 I also really like petunia as an herb that is very good together 27:28 with Krypto, Lepus for Mycoplasma, but also for Bartonella and Banksia. 27:33 Cordyceps Chinese skullcap, some great immune modulating properties 27:39 with those Artemisia annua al cornea 27:43 very good in adjunct because, as I said, especially with Berbizier, 27:48 which is a malaria like infection, you want to use something that works 27:53 well against those types of infections like parasites. 27:57 And you see a child who has worsening around the full 28:01 or new moon, adding an herb around those times, 28:06 you know, when there's a worsening in behaviors around the fuller new moon 28:09 may well be a parasitic infection or babesiosis. 28:14 For others, adding something like a cornea 28:18 Artemisia on a rotating basis may also be helpful. 28:22 And then there are many others, you know, a towbar caption drive. 28:26 You know, I love tumeric as an immune modulating 28:29 the advantage of herbs are multiple one you have immune 28:33 modulating anti-inflammatory and antioxidant properties. 28:39 So you're getting although I do add other just anti-inflammatory herbs 28:44 like the turmeric for instance, or like phospholipid specialized 28:49 pro resolving mediators for the immune system, you're 28:51 getting immune modulating properties in the herbs. 28:54 So you're you're getting two parts of the three pronged approach. 28:58 And with some of the herbs, you may also see symptom improvement 29:02 with, you know, adaptogens and nerve tinctures. 29:05 You know, those are also excellent in putting in. 29:10 Their second advantage of the herbs is that you can start very low. 29:15 You know, a lot of our kids are very sensitive. 29:18 They really will herkes or have a healing crisis, 29:22 a worsening of their symptoms upon starting treatment. 29:26 That means you're on the right track. 29:28 That means you're doing the right thing, but you want to minimize 29:31 that type of healing crisis as much as possible so you can dose up. 29:36 You can start at a small volume of drops 29:39 and increase to the maximum amount, which, oh, by the way, is not once a day. 29:43 My friend Doctor Mariah Hinchey will try to do three times a day that. 29:47 But in children I will suffice it with two. 29:51 If I could get three, that's great, 29:53 but she's better than I ever getting getting them to take it more. 29:56 But anyway. 29:56 But but you can dose it up appropriately by weight 30:02 and avoid the severe Horkheimer reaction and then I think the third is, 30:07 as I was saying in the research, there is good research 30:11 that they're effective, but there's great research that they're safe. 30:15 And as doctors, we don't want to do any harm with our treatment. 30:19 And so if something's effective as well as 30:23 safe, it's going to be very high on my list. 30:26 So I'm probably forgetting about several other herbs you'll remind me of now. 30:32 And then I'll say, oh yeah, that would you? 30:33 But anyway, no, I think you were pretty thorough. 30:36 The one thing too, though, that I want to point out, and you brought up 30:39 this point in the beginning of our discussion, 30:42 is that, you know, over 70% of our immune system is in our gut 30:47 and relies on our microbiome, and that it's balanced and diversified. 30:53 That is a big, big part of how we regulate inflammation in the body 30:58 and also how our immune system functions. 31:01 So, you know, if we can use herbal antimicrobials 31:05 that are much less detrimental 31:09 to the gut and caused dysbiosis much, much, 31:12 much less, it's just another benefit to using these herbs. 31:17 So I wanted to make that point. 31:19 Now as a clinician, do you find these herbs 31:23 because we know what the studies say. 31:25 And by the way, 31:25 if you don't know what the studies say, if you're listening, 31:28 there are a few studies that say that the herbs 31:31 were as effective as Doxy and Sufferer seem. 31:35 I think those were the two that they looked to as effective. 31:38 But additionally, these herbs were effective against the per 31:43 sister cells, which those antibiotics are not effective against. 31:48 But as a clinician, what do you see in practice? 31:50 Do you see these herbal antimicrobials being effective? 31:55 Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. 31:57 And I can name dozens if not hundreds, probably hundreds at this point. 32:03 Who got better with herbs. 32:06 And I can also probably give you dozens that got worse with antibiotics. 32:12 Yeah. 32:13 And, you know, as, as an MD, 32:16 I certainly have the ability to prescribe both. 32:20 And so I've seen both ends of the spectrum, 32:23 and certainly there are children and I am a pediatrician. 32:27 I don't like any of you adults out there. 32:28 So that about you. 32:30 But anyway, I, you know, as a pediatrician, I have used both. 32:35 And there are times, especially when it's an acute, 32:39 you know, tick bite and worsening. 32:41 I will do antibiotics, no question about it. 32:45 And in the short term they can be very effective and nip it in the bud. 32:49 But I never stop with the antibiotics. 32:52 It's another mistake I think conventional allopathic 32:56 physicians may make is the kid gets better and while we're done, 33:00 no, you know, this is a marathon in treating these children. 33:05 So even if you started with antibiotics, it may well be very helpful. 33:11 If not, you know, almost mandatory 33:15 to add the herbs after that to to clean up, 33:19 to finish the process and to, as you 33:21 said, get to the persistence cells. 33:24 Because often if we're not using multiple antibiotics, we won't get there. 33:30 And we're only treating the surface with the antibiotic. 33:33 So yes, mainly I've treated Borrelia, BBC and Bartonella, 33:37 but I've also treated relapsing fever or licky. 33:41 And a plasma all with or and certainly mycoplasma all with herbs. 33:46 So my go to is often 33:49 usually when people come to see me as opposed to a natural path. 33:54 They may be looking for that medication. 33:56 So I may start with something like as if for myself. 34:00 Why I like is it for mice and is a medication is because it 34:03 it has some coverage of Borelli. 34:05 It's a second line for Borelli after Doxy Cycling or any of the Cyclings. 34:09 It has some coverage against Bartonella. 34:11 It is good against Mycoplasma and good against strep in our area. 34:17 And it has some coverage of of obesity. 34:20 So and then I'm building up on the IRBs and waiting for the tests to come back. 34:25 When the test comes back then I'll wean off the is it for mice and 34:29 and just leave them on the IRBs in in the large majority of children. 34:34 And you can get these in the other I think I hear all the time is, oh, 34:38 they taste terrible. We'll never be. 34:39 They don't taste that bad. 34:41 They taste they really don't. 34:43 Re single one of them. Yeah. 34:44 And you know, as I often say, bribery is a great point of part of parenting. 34:50 You know, bribe your kid, you know, put it in a little shot glass, 34:53 give them something else they want afterwards. 34:56 Mix it in with something that tastes better sometimes stevia. 35:00 You know, there's a good biofilm buster that also has good taste. 35:04 It can make the rest of your herbs 35:05 taste better and also potentiate the rest of your ears. 35:09 But you could add something else that tastes good, 35:11 and then they do it successfully seven days in a row. 35:14 Go get them a Lego set or an outing with dad or something like that. 35:18 But they don't taste that bad. 35:20 They really don't. 35:21 You know, pomegranate juice actually has a lot of medicinal 35:25 benefits to it, and it is such a strong taste. 35:28 You know, if the child likes that, that's a good place to hide the herbs 35:31 and then you get some synergistic benefits. 35:34 Yeah. There's so many things that you can do. 35:37 And it's funny, I have parents, you know, that are sucking it up in a syringe
Parent guidance, resources, and closing 35:40 and squirting it down the throat, which is a technique 35:42 I learned from you, you know, decades ago, which is very effective. 35:46 But I've also had the same parents when I've said, did you bottom 35:50 even try to take it 35:51 first, come back in and be like, oh my God, I should have listened to you. 35:54 Like I just gave it to them and they drank it and I'm like, like it's fine. 35:58 It's not a big deal. 36:00 But you want to know? 36:00 It's funny, I'm sitting here listening to you talk. 36:02 And I just had kind of like this moment in my brain. 36:06 So you know, all of these studies that we're looking at, 36:09 most of them have happened in a petri dish. Right. 36:12 Like we're looking at the antimicrobial 36:14 effects of these herbs, which is only like in a petri dish. 36:18 Gonna look at the antimicrobial effects of the herbs 36:22 because the petri dish doesn't have an immune system. 36:25 But like, if we could actually do a big enough study 36:30 where we're looking at like we're missing the whole, 36:33 like anti-inflammatory immune, modulatory, 36:37 like effects of a lot of these antimicrobial herbs, 36:40 because almost every single one of these antimicrobial herbs are also 36:45 anti-inflammatory and positively affect the immune system. 36:49 So, I don't know, I just had this thought listening to you and wanted to. 36:53 Yeah, yeah. 36:54 And and I think we all need to do a better job of putting together case studies. 36:59 Yeah. 37:00 You know, I'm 37:00 going to present one at our upcoming Maps conference, the Medical Academy 37:04 of Pediatrics and Special Needs, on Alice in Wonderland syndrome. 37:08 Yeah. 37:08 Because that's something I've seen six times now with Zia, 37:13 three of those children could not even afford specialty testing. 37:18 So we agreed to just start treating effectively. 37:23 And they have all gotten better. 37:25 And there's your proof. 37:27 And we all need to be writing that up 37:30 and sharing it and talking and and teaching about this. 37:34 I think that's something else you and I have discussed for, 37:38 for lots of training for our practitioners to really have a course on IRBs 37:44 so that the more practitioners can feel comfortable. 37:48 And, you know, you asked me, my IRBs, you know, 37:51 there are many different protocols, whether it be that by Doctor Bruner, 37:57 which I know you were very familiar with, Byron White, new to medics, you know, 38:02 and and any of us can take pieces 38:07 of any of those protocols and find what works individually for us. 38:12 But it's about treating the whole system right. 38:17 And that's why they're so powerful and so effective. 38:21 Yeah. 38:22 So before we end, what would you like parents who are listening to know 38:26 about vector borne disease as triggering basal ganglia encephalitis? 38:32 First of all, don't give up. 38:33 Second of all, find a practitioner that knows what they're doing. 38:38 Both Doctor Hinchey and I are very busy. 38:40 Will be glad to help you if we can, but we'll also be glad to give you 38:44 lots of other resources because you need to look 38:49 at these diseases, understand them from a clinical perspective. 38:53 What are the symptoms that you could be seeing that could be these diseases? 38:58 And then get a practitioner that's listening to you, 39:02 listening to your child and looking at the IRBs 39:07 that could be effective for your child 39:10 and then looking again three months later. 39:13 Nothing's changing. 39:14 You're at full dose. Okay, let's try some different herbs. 39:17 Let's swap this one out and try this one. 39:20 You know. But don't give up. 39:22 This can get better. 39:24 And we need to make sure that this is part of what we're looking at 39:29 when we're treating kids with pans, pandas, basal ganglia, encephalitis. 39:34 Thank you. 39:35 So share with our listeners any upcoming events that you have. 39:39 And once again remind people how they can find you and how they can 39:44 participate in your mentoring program or your membership program. 39:48 So if you go to D r O'Hara dot com, everything will be there. 39:53 A phone number if you have questions in email, 39:56 if you have questions and all the details of first the membership, 40:00 which I'd love people to join, it's open to parents as well as practitioners. 40:04 There there's two different levels and it includes about 62 to 5 minute 40:10 videos, includes about six lectures 40:13 on tick borne disease, mold pans, pandas, neuro therapy, which includes 40:20 cognitive, behavioral therapy and others, and a whole lecture on on case studies. 40:25 And then we also do monthly live and recorded teachings 40:28 where we talk about each one of these different issues in detail 40:34 and have live questions that you can ask me and others. 40:38 And it's a community, you know, we get together once a month and we just 40:42 share and talk and ask questions and hopefully provide some answers. 40:48 And then the mentoring is, if you are a practitioner or 40:51 even if you're a parent, we have another practitioner that I can mentor, 40:56 and I do a one hour mentoring session to look at what could you be missing? 41:02 What else could you consider 41:04 helping your practitioner to feel comfortable with some of the herbals 41:08 and then the other things that are coming up? 41:10 Certainly the audio book just came out with the five new chapters on Bartonella, 41:14 the Busia mold, Covid, and folate receptor antibodies. 41:17 So please feel free to get that if you'd like to listen to my voice on Pans pandas. 41:22 So all of that information as it is ready 41:26 will be on the website and join me in any way you can. 41:31 Awesome. 41:31 Thank you so much. 41:33 Thank you. Thank you for being here. It means a lot. 41:35 Any time. 41:37 Thank you for doing it. Absolutely. 41:39 All right. 41:39 And for all of our listeners, thank you for being here. 41:42 And I hope that this information is helpful for you on your journey. 41:47 Healing from Lyme disease. 41:48 Take care. We'll see you next time.
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