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Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA, is a double board-certified physician in both family and lifestyle medicine. Since 2012, she has championed the use of food as medicine. Impressively, she holds medical licenses in all 50 states, including the District of Columbia. Patients can join her intimate concierge practice via drmarbas.com. Together... Read More
Jane Esselstyn, RN is a fresh, charismatic voice who brings her perspective and passion as a nurse, researcher, mother, and teacher to the forefront of the plant-based movement. She presents her work, research, and high energy demos around the world- and on her new YouTube channel with her firecracker mom,... Read More
- Explore how work and social interactions can affect your hypertension management
- Learn strategies for asserting your health needs in social settings and managing lack of support or understanding
- Gain insight into balancing social life with hypertension lifestyle changes and how to find a community that supports your health goals
- This video is part of the Reversing Hypertension Naturally Summit
Related Topics
Autoimmune Disease, Chronic Illness, Community, Health Coaching, Hypertension, Mental Health, Nutrition, Stress, Weight LossLaurie Marbas, MD, MBA
Welcome back for another great conversation we were about to have with Jane and Ann Esselstyn. How are you today?
Jane Esselstyn
Great. How are you?
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
I’m good. Thank you. The reason I wanted to have you on the segment is because if there’s anybody who embodies everything you should be doing to help reverse chronic disease but in hypertension, falls into that is like the whole lesson family, but you two. I love watching on your YouTube channel your books. You’ve inspired so many women and women make a lot of the decisions in the home regarding their food choices and everything. The first question would be, how would you even approach this? Let’s say someone is ready to go. They want to start a plant-based diet. What do they need in their kitchen? Are there certain recipes or tools, like, where do you even begin?
Jane Esselstyn
You just begin. How do you begin to write a thank-you note to someone? You just say, Dear So-and-So, you just start, you just do it. You can make this into a monster. It’s not you. People often think we’ve written all these books and whatnot, but there’s no real trick to it. People probably eat better than they think, to some degree. If you like oatmeal, maybe even have it every day. Maybe people have their eggs and bacon stuff, but if you like oatmeal, go with that. Just stick with it. Keep having your oatmeal, and don’t put butter on it. Just put blueberries on it or go with her witch’s brew. If you want to be brave and have her breakfast.
Ann Esselstyn
All my life, just do it. But I will. I’m talking about breakfast. Do you want to hear?
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
Yes, ma’am.
Jane Esselstyn
Even though she didn’t ask about breakfast, No, lady. He’ll knock on the door in the kitchen if you’re scared of being plant-based. But take it away with the witch’s brew.
Ann Esselstyn
Just saying, start. When you start, you start. You just have to decide you’re going to do it, and you aren’t going to drift off. But the best place to start is at breakfast. As Jane said, oatmeal is such a key thing because it has so many benefits, and over the years, I have eaten nothing. I’ve eaten leftovers from last night. But there’s no doubt that the health benefits that I get from my breakfast are so huge that I just recommend everybody start a breakfast that has oatmeal, chia seeds, flaxseed, turmeric, and maybe even some ginger. Get those things in.
Jane Esselstyn
Kale, then mushrooms.
Ann Esselstyn
Anyway,
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
Tell me about the witch’s brew. Like, what is it? I am intrigued.
Jane Esselstyn
Ann’s Warrior Oats are so good here. It’s just what she said.
Ann Esselstyn
It’s steel-cut oats, nutritional yeast, turmeric, and a little bit of sriracha hot sauce, which is just not making it hot but not bland. then shiitake mushrooms and kale, about two cups cut up, small so you don’t have long dribbles. Then my latest obsession is frozen artichoke hearts.
Jane Esselstyn
They are even frozen.
Ann Esselstyn
They end up being like shiitake mushrooms. They sort of blend in.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
They’re that consistent.
Ann Esselstyn
I love artichokes.
Jane Esselstyn
But your question was wonderful. What would you say to people just to start? Just start. If it helps you, people have different degrees of comfort with change. Some people just clear out the shelves in the refrigerator. Start with, you know what, using your kitchens, what you’re going to eat. Because if it’s in your house, as AJ says, it’s in your mouth. If people have a tricky household, like kids or other partners or spouses who are not on board, you’ve got to figure out how you can do it and dial it in for yourself. Your other family members also have stuff they need in the house. There’s no one answer to that wonderful question but just begin.
Ann Esselstyn
One of the things that I have found, too, is that if people are educated, if they understand that, especially if somebody has some health issues, if you understand that I’m not going to eat anything with oil, I’m not going to eat anything with meat or dairy, then I am going to read the ingredients of everything I buy. Then suddenly you look at this delicious something or other, and the second ingredient is oil. I’m not going to eat that. If you make yourself think I’m going to read ingredients and throw out things that don’t meet my new standards.
Jane Esselstyn
Yes
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
Perfect. No, honestly, just getting started is like, just go.
Jane Esselstyn
Just go.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
What if someone is new to the kitchen? Because many times we have actually.
Jane Esselstyn
But just go.
Ann Esselstyn
Jane and I don’t have.
Jane Esselstyn
Not been trained. We weren’t trained by anyone.
Ann Esselstyn
We don’t have any of the instant pots that we use or all of that stuff, partially because when we’re talking to people, we want to be able to talk to anybody. People who have instant pots love it. They live by it.
Jane Esselstyn
It’s a cult.
Ann Esselstyn
Do you have one?
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
I don’t use one, but my son gave my husband one. I was going to see and he was craving all sorts of things, curries, and such. I’m like, “Okay.”
Jane Esselstyn
It’s wonderful. But so again, your question is: If you’re not comfortable, just start. What frightens me is not trying things in my life, but if you’re too frightened to even start, then you’re not even going to know. You’re not going to get to that thing that you perfected. You’re not going to get to that thing that you didn’t work out, but at least you tried. It frightens me that you wouldn’t even try. You couldn’t give it a go.
Ann Esselstyn
A cheap way to start is to get a rice cooker because you can use it a little bit. Also, I like the way you use an instant pot because you can put mushrooms, vegetables, and onions in it.
Jane Esselstyn
Put the grains in.
Ann Esselstyn
There. Well, it takes so long, but you can use that also.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
What are your favorite go-to recipes, like when you’re on a busy day because, for some people, the next thing you hear is I don’t have time? What are the ways for you to deal with being busy and your schedule, especially if you have a family that you’re trying to take care of and work with?
Jane Esselstyn
That is a problem.
Ann Esselstyn
Is it horrible?
Jane Esselstyn
It’s a great question because it’s a horrible dilemma to wrestle with.
Ann Esselstyn
One thing: you can take frozen peas and put them in hot water. That’s done. That’s one part.
Jane Esselstyn
I was thinking. Breakfast. You could have frozen peas for breakfast.
Ann Esselstyn
You’re talking about dinner.
Jane Esselstyn
Well, it’s a busy day.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
Any day is a busy day. Like, how do you do bad cooking?
Jane Esselstyn
Oil or oatmeal doesn’t take that long.
Ann Esselstyn
They don’t cook it. Just eat raw.
Jane Esselstyn
We eat it like Captain Crunch, like oats in a bowl.
Ann Esselstyn
Safest breakfast ever.
Jane Esselstyn
Oatmeal and you were just in the car, eat it. You’re full until, like, lunch. It takes so long to break that stuff down. It’s like a hammer and chisel breaking on the oats in your belly.
Ann Esselstyn
The two foods that are the most filling are oats and potatoes.
Jane Esselstyn
But what people can do to oats? This is frightening because they can machete up the oats, like pre-chopped salt and sugar, and then add strawberry flavoring. That is just a frightening way to get out. We don’t mean that. We mean like oats, like out of them like a Quaker oat column where that’s called not Quaker Oats. I would just say that you don’t need to cook your oats, but given the go, and if you’d like cooked oats, that’s great, and the one thing we did discuss that we both do love is that we have rice cooker, and I will, when we have guests or something, I don’t want to wake up and have them need to get out the door and know where they’re going and they have a 5:00 plane or they want to be on the road by eight or whatever. I want to have an easy time together, so I’ll put steel and cut oats in the rice cooker, and in ours, it has a different setting that says porridge on it. I love it. Sort of a Scottish name for it.
So I’ll put on the porridge, and they wake up, and their steel-cut oats are warm and ready. We also cut oats, and they have blueberries, so you can cook oatmeal the night before or you can have it raw. As far as lunches, if somebody has a lunch where they’re working, great; let’s hope it’s a good one. Sometimes schools don’t like you to bring lunches. You have to wait until it’s served, or you get to buy whatever you have to buy. But if kids take lunch, I often have to have our kids help make their lunch. Because if you have one kid or four kids, it’s the same amount of time.If they’re doing it themselves, if you have to make all four, that’s four times as much or whatever. Engaging them in it helps, and I was talking yesterday with somebody about how it’s astounding how similar recipes can be either incredibly healthy or unhealthy. For example, let’s talk about a peanut butter and jelly sandwich you can have Wonder Bread with.
There are so many different types of peanut butter out there that are peanut butter frosting. They have hydrogenated oil and sugar and sweeteners and then, some peanut butter and Duncan Hines flavoring. But Duncan Hines on that because that’s not any; it’s peanut butter, but it’s not peanuts that have been smashed into a peanut butter paste, and then you can put on some jelly that’s mostly sugar, so you can make this white bread with peanut butter frosting and sugary sweet stuff that can be one. Or you can have like whole grain bread, like a physical bread, or even Dave’s killer bread, which is pretty darn good with being whole grain filled and you can get the peanut butter that’s made on a home machine. Then you could put blueberries all over your peanut butter. It sticks in there like, I don’t know, acorns in the mud and has like a peanut butter and blueberry sandwich or just gets some jelly or jam. That’s 100%.
Ann Esselstyn
Banana slice.
Jane Esselstyn
Or banana slices and jam that are made with 100% fruit, and there are a million different brands. But that sandwich versus the Wonder Bread sandwich is a completely different beast. You can make a good move with that or have your kids put hummus on their toast and chop up a bunch of cucumbers for everybody, or whatever they want to make for lunch. That’s within your guidelines, or your parameters, that you’re trying to eat as much as possible. There’s so much individual packaging, wrap, snacks, and other things ready to go.
Ann Esselstyn
For an adult wanting to eat, not peanut butter or jelly, I would say I am.
Jane Esselstyn
Thinking kids who were on.
Ann Esselstyn
Then, I’m thinking, well, I’m thinking, me, hummus, and as many vegetables as you can put on, which would be celery or lettuce, celery, and kale.
Jane Esselstyn
Tomato slices of.
Ann Esselstyn
Beans, and then the sick, sick thing of broccoli sprouts. I have broccoli sprouts going.
Jane Esselstyn
That’s a great sandwich. That’s great. leftovers from dinner, which I didn’t want to jump ahead and say, but that’s the best lunch, as we all know. But we haven’t had dinner yet. I’m just going with lunches for kids in my mind and what can travel to and from school without being sloshed or wet, if you will. Nori, we roll. We roll our Nori vegetable sushi out of California rolls without the crab stuff. That’s great. The kids roll their own, and they can slice it. They can bring a little topping to put on it in their lunchbox. But there are lots of ways to create a new one and make a little burrito. That’s what burrito means. It means a little burro full of the food from before. It’s just here’s the wrap with the rice in the beans and all that stuff. Here you go. Take it to the field.
Ann Esselstyn
If you’re trying to lose weight, instead of using bread, you can use salad, and that’s your wrap. You can fill it with rice, beans, whatever. whatever you choose. Lettuce, tomatoes, and hummus. I don’t know.
Jane Esselstyn
I keep thinking my kids, for some reason, have this, but this is high blood pressure.
Ann Esselstyn
I have to tell you another favor—a quick new favorite thing for us—and that is a Portabella Mushroom Baked With Some Barbecue Sauce. That is our burger. Then it sits in arugula, tomato, and thick broccoli sprouts with some hummus.
Jane Esselstyn
On the bun.
Ann Esselstyn
Bun, one of Dave’s killer buns.
Jane Esselstyn
Or just wear the ones you can find that are all great.
Ann Esselstyn
Anyway, that’s quick.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
With your mushrooms, like, do you make your barbecue sauce? Do you buy it? Then what’s the temperature setting and cooking time?
Jane Esselstyn
Just until it’s done. People like spongy; people like it’s squished. It’s just cooking. It feels done too.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
Then you’re mentioning the broccoli sprouts. The sprouts are such a healthy thing. So, you’re growing your broccoli sprouts.?
Ann Esselstyn
But you can also buy them.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
I’m more concerned about buying sprouts.
Jane Esselstyn
But why the Brussels sprouts? Was is an astounding company. They have invented something. They’ve had zero callbacks. There’ll be a lot. Look at this. Go to what about sprouts and look it up because they are. I’m a huge fan of that.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
How do you get your seeds if, let’s say, someone wants to do sprouts because there are so many benefits, especially to the broccoli sprouts? Where do you get seeds? Is there a particular technique that you like?
Ann Esselstyn
I get them from sprouting people.
Jane Esselstyn
Then you put them in a jar.
Ann Esselstyn
Put them in. I put two tablespoons of sprouts, soak them in water, and then you have to have some serving layer on top and then take the water out.
Jane Esselstyn
Because you have to just drain the sieve and put it back up. So it’s till we put them.
Ann Esselstyn
We put them.In a little bowl, So they drain.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
So you just say it’s at an angle and.
Ann Esselstyn
Then, once a day, if it’s hot, you need to pay attention. They go more often because they go quickly. It’s so much cheaper to get them than to do them yourself. Then you eat them for sure.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
It might be a great experiment, too, for kids. Did you ever do that experiment with the lima beans, and you put them in the jar, and the kids just watched them sprout. They just think that’s the coolest thing ever.
Ann Esselstyn
It’s like that. That’s great. The key thing with kids is, as Jane said, to have them cook and get them involved. My favorite story is when our now almost 30-year-old granddaughter was three and she was with us. It was just November. I have a thing about Brussels sprouts. They grow on a stem.
Jane Esselstyn
On a stalk.
Ann Esselstyn
Stalk, yes. So Flynn took them off the stalk. I gave her a knife; she cut the ends; I cooked them, drained them, and put them in a bowl. I sat on the floor with the bowl between us and looked at me, and she said, “But I don’t eat those.: So I said, Well, Flynn, just have a few little leaves. Well, Flynn must have eaten 30 Brussels sprouts, so it turns out.
Jane Esselstyn
You thought he was going to blow up.
Ann Esselstyn
That. I did. I have a ham. It turns out that Flynn’s birthday is December 27. When she was with you at that point, when you were in preschool, you took a tree, and Flynn took Brussels sprouts as her trade.
Jane Esselstyn
Way to make friends.
Ann Esselstyn
No, her parents were not sure about it, so they had some backup or something. But. But that is how you get a child. You have to change how they eat.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
Especially if they don’t know anything else; they just grow up eating this. That’s fantastic. We had the rule.
Jane Esselstyn
About what to eat on a busy day. I would like to finish that because, yes, I’ve been listening. So there are oats in the morning that I’ve been cooking before or are raw. Just go, go, go, and it takes no time to throw berries on your dish. I said things were individually packaged and wrapped. Then my mom was talking about her zero. But we’re people, like me, who want something to grab and go. Mother Nature knew that. She knew that we wanted to grab and go. That’s why we have bananas that are individually packaged and wrapped to go with apples, oranges, apricots, pears, and all these things. They’re filled with water, and they’re filled with fiber. They’ve got some sugar; it’s suspended in that lattice of fiber. It’s not like an injection of a monster drink. It is amazing. Or the cluster of grapes. You can have a few. They’re packaged in their little cluster. Mother Nature knew it, and it’s beautiful what we’ve been provided. then moving from breakfast and lunch and some snacks to dinner, we have found over the years of writing all these different books that what is most productive for the most number of people most of the time is the model, if you will, of like a Chipotle or a Subway, like we’re having this choose what you want to put on it.
Like last night, we had a version of that where someone from the Indonesian culture called Gado Gado which means mixed-mixed. They took everything from their fridge, which is like what Chipotle has done. Everything is in the fridge. They’ve got the greens or the rice, and then they have the beans or the meat and have it delivered down the line. That’s what Gado Gado is, and that’s what we do with any meal we’re doing. Last night, for example, the Gado Gado next because my neighbor next door is an anthropology professor, and she came for dinner. I wanted to have her the Gado Gado dish, as we had brown rice as our grain. I cooked it in the morning before I left. I was gone all day yesterday working, so the grain was cooked. I have kale in the fridge that is just chopped up because I bought it, and then I stripped it off and just touched it. I had like a Ziploc bag and stuff like this in the corner with kale. Kale was one of the fixings. I put on red pepper and some scallions, which, even if you’re not having plant-based food, you’re probably going to have red peppers and scallions as part of your meal. They put that on the plate, and they were a little late because they went and picked up some raspberry sorbet for us. I kept chopping stuff, and I ended up making a salad to go with this. While I was doing all that, the Tempeh was cooking on the stove. They had a little bit of tamari on them. Tempeh just cooked on the pan for a few minutes. This was minutes of cooking, but it’s not like your life is in a hurry to get to work.
Ann Esselstyn
To get to the sauce.
Jane Esselstyn
I also had the brown rice and all the veggies, and I ended up making a salad because I was burning time while the Tempeh was cooking. But then the whole plate of Gado Gado thank you is what every Indonesian household is known for is the way that the woman in the household, as you mentioned earlier, is her peanut sauce. My friend makes it with things like whole peanuts and kecap manis, which is an Indonesian thing, and all this other stuff. I make it with peanut butter, then rice vinegar, and tamari.
Ann Esselstyn
I make it, and it’s using peanut PB too pure, which has the oil taken out and no sugar or salt taken out.
Jane Esselstyn
But I butter because we had the sixth-grade kid coming over too, so plenty of myelination of her genes is going on. The peanut butter sauce and you just drizzled on whatever you had, but had that meal not been, you know, Gado Gado if it was your potato bars, the same things baked potatoes with all the corn peppers, and some salsa, maybe some guacamole at the end, or if it had been a build your pasta bar or build your own burrito bar or taco bar or enchilada or tostada, those are all very similar. But instead of having things in your fridge, just pull them out as single ingredients. You don’t need to risk cooking everything together with some sauce and then baking it as your one dish, and people just go and don’t like it.
Ann Esselstyn
Have them love one dish.
Jane Esselstyn
All of our books say otherwise, but that’s why.
Ann Esselstyn
I have one dish in here.
Jane Esselstyn
We do have a one-dish wonder here in there. Now we love our lasagnas. We love some of our things. But I said that most of the time, the most successful way for most people to get what they want is to have individual ingredients made by them. But you have the primary wholegrain, and like I had Tempeh or brown, black beans, chickpeas, or whatever it is, those are separate from the construction of it. The sauces vary.
Ann Esselstyn
We have a lot of rice and beans, and you can, and again, that’s what Jane’s saying. You start, and then you build it. You can put greens, and you can put chopped or anything. Tomatoes, cucumber, red pepper, and mango. Mango is the solution to so many things. When you want something to taste better.
Jane Esselstyn
I need to take a page out of the Ancient Cultures book and most Asian cultures. Look at India and look at so many, like Latin America and South America, where there are grains. We rice most often; they’re quinoa, porridge, oats, and wheat. There’s grain and then there are also the legumes and the beans. I love how these Asian cultures make this tofu, and they have it so beautifully. I just learned that we need to say that Tempeh is from Indonesia. I didn’t know that until recently, but that’s so cool. It’s like you can even see the back of the soybean in the Tempeh. Anyway, those take a page out of that book and then they have it; they just spice it up with the vegetables and the spices from their cultures, which is so powerful.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
No, that’s fabulous. I love your description of everything you’re doing, you’re giving others choices, but they can still enjoy the meal with the same ingredients. But it’s different for everyone. But that gets me to: when we do go to other social things, like when we’re having Thanksgiving come up or we’re going to a party, how do you help someone navigate that? How should they deal with those types of social obstacles, so to speak?
Ann Esselstyn
Well, we can tell you that when they pass the hors d’oeuvre, eat the parsley.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
I’m not sure that’ll satisfy everyone. But yes, that’ll be a good start
Jane Esselstyn
My husband calls my mom, and he started to call me sometimes now a bully for good, completely for good, and I’m adopting her energy, so on Thanksgiving, we’re having 43 people who cannot wait because, for everything human of those 43 people coming to the meal, everyone has to bring a dish. We’re making sure we do some of the basics. We’ll get our mommy’s mushroom gravy and our cranberry salsa and mashed potatoes that will make a big part of it, which is a dish. You’re going to make a big pot of food anyway. I’m not thinking about the Brazilian desserts the teenagers are going to bring in from the Internet. Birds over leaf chocolate or whatever. What a blast! Everyone gets to be featured. Thanksgiving is all about the harvest. There’s a great chance that you can’t eat these dishes unless they’ve been deep-fried in lard or melted with cheese all over them. You could probably give it a go. Things might be spiced a little differently or maybe a little greasy, and you can digest some of it, but Thanksgiving is the best holiday for plant-based folks because it’s about the harvest. I’m so tired of people going, poor thing, what do you do with Thanksgiving?
Ann Esselstyn
All the rest is about Brian. My husband is such a good cook, and he makes stuffing, but the coolest thing is that this can be a centerpiece, and that is that you can put the stuffing in a pumpkin or even in any word-like thing, like how sometimes to get pumpkins this late and then bake it like that, and it’s just fabulous.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
Don’t be afraid to go try some things and bring some new things.
Jane Esselstyn
Bring something that you know you’re going to like and that you’re going to be able to fill up on. If you’re scared, I’d say bring something like mashed potatoes or a great squash dish, some of which are filling.
Ann Esselstyn
You know what’s fun? It’s like a little delicata squash; just bake it with a little maple syrup, and then it gets caramelized. that’s fabulous. One Thanksgiving, we didn’t have 43. I don’t know how many we had, but I did just that. I got a little delicata. They’re about this big.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
I’m, oh, man. Well.
Jane Esselstyn
I’m getting hungry.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
I am too. My stomach is, and I agree.
Jane Esselstyn
It’s great.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
My goodness. Let me just pause here for a second, real quick. Thank you for joining us today. I hope you found this conversation insightful and engaging. If you’re a summer purchaser, stay right here, because we’re about to dive even deeper into the discussion with Jane and Ann. If you’re not, please click on the button below or to the side to access the rest of our conversation. If you’re watching this, thank you for being a valuable member of our community. Jane and Ann have just a few final questions here. I love your energy. You guys are just going back and forth as far as your book. Can you please tell us about your most recent book and why you titled it, what you?
Jane Esselstyn
You mean the.
Ann Esselstyn
Plant-based woman.
Jane Esselstyn
Warrior.
Ann Esselstyn
Live, fierce, stable.
Jane Esselstyn
Delicious, yes, book. It was. Thank you for asking me about it, Laurie, because my mom made all the recipes in my father’s book a thousand years ago. I was getting one with this going out.
Ann Esselstyn
Trying to join 2007.
Jane Esselstyn
I did, so it was me.
Ann Esselstyn
I couldn’t say it. Well, I was about to say 2099.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
Laughter is good medicine as well.
Jane Esselstyn
My mom did that with my dad in 2007 and with the lens of heart disease and mind. Then my brother Rick’s book came out, and the Engine 2 book came out, and then he got asked to do another book called Plant Strong, and he asked me to do the recipes for that. I had this firefighter lens on, and then he did another one, and we did another one. We did three books together. Then my mom and I did the Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease Cookbook, which is.
Ann Esselstyn
Partner is terrific for anybody with heart disease.
Jane Esselstyn
It’s an adjunct to the recipes she did here to augment that. We again had heart disease, and I said not enough of this, like supporting squats, and let’s do what we eat as women. But the ones who were, we’ve taken over our kitchen bullies for good. I was like, Let’s do our own thing. We were so lucky that we got to do the Women Warrior Book. There are three reasons behind this book that push us to want to do it not just because we’ve done other things; we love supporting heart disease patients. We love supporting firefighters.
Ann Esselstyn
That’s where I come from.
Jane Esselstyn
And this as well. I read all the recipes.
Ann Esselstyn
Indicated before you keep going in this book and each recipe indicates yes, it’s indicated whether it’s heart disease friendly or it will say to make this heart disease friendly, don’t use cannellini beans and you know it’s that.
Jane Esselstyn
They act so our brand of being heart disease-friendly is still supported here. But I wanted to write it for three reasons, and I say I did because a mom is quick to say.
Ann Esselstyn
Jane is the lead. Jane did all the work. This book is you.
Jane Esselstyn
But this book is a tip of the hat to you. To her. Because my dad’s research came out, he started talking about this stuff in 82, 81, and 83. He was so busy with all his patients and all his general surgery at the clinic at a given clinic at that time. But anyway, this is not a cook. You can’t make toast.
Ann Esselstyn
Yes. The next is breakfast.
Jane Esselstyn
All the roads, and so she is the reason this whole movement has legs. Had she not picked up the helm there and said, I see, we’re not going to eat the meat, dairy, oil, sugar, fat, and salt. She had four kids, a full-time job teaching, and a dog, and she picked it up and went for it because she has this just-do attitude, which has fallen off on some of her before, but a tip of the hat to her for doing that because she’s the reason this movement is going forward. I truly believe, especially for our family, that if not for the Brazilian people, you’ve impacted Daddy’s research. Second, because, as you said in the beginning, Laurie, most of the mental labor around food falls on women. Women—not everybody, but the majority. I’m going to leave room here for these strong, beautiful men who contribute willingly or not. even if I say, well.
Ann Esselstyn
Your husband is in the pie.
Jane Esselstyn
Exactly like that, but the majority of the mental labor is done by women. Like, what do we plant? What do we harvest? What do we shop for? What do we put in the cart where we pay for what we put away? What do we prepare? What do we serve? How do we serve it? That is so much mental labor for women. Here in the States, as you know, darn well, we’ve all taken a turn for the worse. as far as lifestyle-related diseases that are so easily reversible. All we’re saying here is to add more plants, evergreens, greens, berries, fresh stuff, and just whole grains, get away from saturated fats, meat, and dairy, and have things take a turn for the better. It’s just that it’s like be brave, live fiercely, like, and stay bold, take things and change the turn, feed your family yourselves, your community, more plants, and eat delicious, which is more of a personal message of mine. If I can take a minute and say, because I have three brothers, there’s four of us. We were all like college athletes we all swam growing up twice a day, lifting weights, and swimming. Olympic trials when I was 14—that was my jam. I got to college, and I’m swimming for Michigan, and I had to put my suit in; it doesn’t quite fit. I’m like, What is going on? I’m so mad at my body for how it won’t fit in the suit, but I’m so glad to be an NCAA. So I’m it’s this whole mix of, I don’t think I did, I can’t eat, but I need to eat, to train, to live, to be powerful, to swim for Michigan. but I don’t like how I’m feeling as a woman and a female.
So it’s this mixed mix. I didn’t want to have for a second. I knew my brothers hadn’t thought for a moment about anything to do with any food that they’d eaten that they consumed. Not for an iota of a second did it bother them. I didn’t like how it was becoming, just like my friend calls it. Food had me wondering, Who am I? What can I eat? What can I wear? What can I do? It became so crushing. But right at that moment in time, my parents called and said, “Hey, we’re eating a different way these days. No meat, no dairy, no fat, no oil, no butter, —just all these things.” It took a while, but if I say it a couple of months, like, what are we doing? I came home for the summer, and we were in this way, which made sense. For a while, I was like, I can eat a dozen bagels and Nutella. No, that’s not the way to go. I can eat all of that now. You try to figure out your way to do it. It’s been feeling so wicked lucky that it landed in my lap when it did because I don’t know how my life, my health, my sense of identity, and my sense of self would be if I didn’t have this whole food plant-based message from these guys.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
That’s a beautiful tribute to two people who were going against the wave many years ago. You’re truly blessed. Every time I see you guys, I say the same thing. It’s fantastic.
Ann Esselstyn
Forget something. I want this meme, and that is that I love to have things on hand when you’re starving and you don’t know what to eat. This is a little plug because one of the things that Rick’s has done with his plant-strong company is to create their five different stews and chilies. Then there are four other things like that. I have this whole row of them. So when I just feel like I’m starving and I don’t want to cook, those are the best places to go because you can add all kinds of greens to them. then you have something you can add. You can add whatever’s in the refrigerator, but you’ve got a base in there.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
They’re in my pantry. Yes. the cornbread.
Ann Esselstyn
And the pancake mix. But find something that is like that that you can go on to at the last minute that follows all your guidelines.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
You’re exactly right. It’s just thinking ahead of the obstacles. Then, when the obstacles come, you already have a plan. It’s much less stressful. But I love your message about women and our thoughts in our relationship with our bodies and our health, and we must take control of that now and teach our children these healthy messages. Otherwise, where else are they going to learn it?
Jane Esselstyn
Can you please send a cultural message about it all? I believe men’s health is taken care of every 15 minutes. an NFL game without Viagra. Just there are so many messages around men and what’s accessible to them. So that’s why at my women’s event every March, we talk about breast health, undercarriage, health, body health, belly health, and gut health. It’s all good stuff, and we need to talk about it.
Ann Esselstyn
Currently, she doesn’t want me to go.
Jane Esselstyn
No, I’m not. Because I’m a sex education teacher. There’s been great research out there about women’s pleasure recently that’s been exciting.
Ann Esselstyn
The clitoris has changed. I decided.
Jane Esselstyn
Well, everybody should be excited.
Ann Esselstyn
We are trying to pass the word.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
Makes sense. No, I remember when I first interviewed Brian and Jane together years ago, we laughed so hard. You guys were outside at a picnic table or something. I remember that it was a very entertaining conversation.
Jane Esselstyn
There’s, it’s continued from there with more research.
Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA
Well, I will tell you, this has been delightful and helpful, and I thank you both for spending time with us today.
Ann Esselstyn
Laurie, you are such fun to talk to.
Jane Esselstyn
You are.
Ann Esselstyn
And so easy.
Jane Eselstyn
Stop it. I bet I’m hungry. You got me hungry talking about some of this stuff. Thank you so much for including us in the summit, and I hope all goes well for you going forward.
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