Trauma – What Emerges in Healing with Ketamine Assisted Therapy – A Gulf War Veteran Story

Introduction to Doctor Talks and the Guest 0:00

And when it comes to the pain, whether it is emotional type pain or whether it's a physical type pain, how much of that is actual pain and how much of it is psychosomatic, or how much of it is being made up in my head? And that right there, just knowing that right there gives me a better outlook on life. You know, that's the best way I can explain that. When it comes to healing, welcome to Doctor Talks, the podcast where every episode leads to a healthier you. Join us as we navigate the world of optimal health, uncovering groundbreaking strategies to conquer chronic disease.

In each episode, we'll bring you the latest insights from leading health experts, medical innovators, and wellness warriors. If you're seeking to transform your health journey, or if you're looking for answers to burning questions, you've come to the right place. Get ready to unlock the secrets of lifelong health and vitality. This is Doctor Talks, real talk from real doctors on only issues that matter to you. Most. Welcome to the Two curious A&E podcast, where we ask those unanswered questions in healing in medicine and integrative medicine and kidney treatment.

Today we have a special guest, Cedric. He is a patient I've worked with and he is a veteran. He also is African-American patient of color, a patient who has been through the system of health care and really came to do the work with ketamine, integrative medicine, with therapy, with a lot of zeal and a lot of effort. And he I call him my A-plus student. I'm the things you are doing the work and really represent the work. What it takes to work through the trauma, the depression, the mental health in the system of care that we have.

You know, you've done the work and you're here. And a lot of times I, I get calls from patients who are interested in doing treatment. I don't know how it's done, really.

Cedricu2019s Background and Military Service 2:00

Want to know more about what this looks like? And so I'd like to start with a question just a little bit about your background, your service, your life before statement. Once again, thank you for inviting inviting me to the podcast. My name is Cedric and a little bit about my background. Originally, I'm from Texas, and around the age of 12 years old, my mother relocated us to the San Francisco Bay area, and later we moved over into Richmond. I graduated high school, joined the military. And, after my first and listening, I made a decision to make a career out of the military, out of the army.

And during that time, I felt that being in the military was a safe place to be, because it was at the end of the Vietnam War, around 1977 78 timeframe. And then all of a sudden, the Gulf War kicked off. And I really question myself, what have I gotten myself into? And at that point, I say, well, nobody really forced me to join the military. It was all volunteer military. So I felt obligated. So, joining the military, I, made it through the Gulf War, and but prior to that, I was stationed before, did get the opportunity to attend Monterey Peninsula College.

For a couple of years. And throughout my military career, through nontraditional colleges, I ended up with a degree in criminal justice. And during that time, I was, traveling all over the world. And after my military career, I decided I wanted to come back to California. And, I made an attempt to go back to the Bay area, but it was a little bit out of my price range when it come to buying housing by buying a house. Later, I did a little bit of a, demographic study, and I ended up realizing that the closer I got to Sacramento, the more affordable these were.

That's basically how I ended up here. And, you know, during my travels before I found, I found out about academy therapy, everybody's aware that the doctors were prescribing various medications to treat my PTSD, the depression and anxiety. And looking back, it was basically putting a Band-Aid on their suffering. And it wasn't really addressing the root cause of those issues. And it wasn't until I found out about meditation academy therapy, especially the, integrative process of ketamine therapy and ketamine therapy is kind of like to me, it's the same as meditation.

And the difference is meditation is kind of like walking up the stairs to get to the same place. The academy therapy is like catching the elevator to get to the same place, and that's the difference between the two along their journey doing meditation, for example. What it does, it kind of gives me. It helped me to recognize my thoughts. And during that process, if I'm not careful, I will attach a storyline or some type of a narrative to that film. And then I go down a rabbit hole with it. Yeah.

What was it you felt like you were struggling with when you first started treatment? When the first time you walked in through those doors, you sat down and on that couch I remember meeting. What was that at that time and that moment in your life that you were struggling with that brought you to ketamine? Oh, who brought me to Academy? It was a diagnosis that my psychiatrist diagnosed me with, and that was medicine resistant depression because, as I mentioned earlier, I had been through a whole gamut of different type of medications that pretty much was ineffective at that point.

And that's what, led me to ketamine therapy. Well, that's how I ended up there. Yeah, yeah. I wanted to ask, how is this trauma showing up in your daily life? Like, what was your life like? It was showing up in a form of, easily being triggered to say with, thoughts, sounds especially aircraft. You know, there was it was those triggers in those traumas was showing up very easily, as a sound of a helicopter, for example. And before I could realize that it was a police helicopter, the first thing that came into my mind is that it was a combat helicopter.

Either it was a Black Hawk, Apache, or some type of military helicopter. The area where I live, it

PTSD, Depression, and the Move to Ketamine Therapy 7:00

still is, once there are actually nukes there to fight the, that it used in firefighting roles. But to me, it's not a firefighting helicopter and military helicopter and academy therapy has helped me to do is to hear that sound and step back and take a breath and say, okay, you're not in a combat zone. You know, you are here in a safe place and it's okay. And I learned through ketamine therapy how to shorten that window, you know, and that's what I really appreciate about it. And it helps me to understand my thought process.

For example, doing Kennedy therapy, when those dogs come up, I can actually sit with those thoughts in a more positive perspective, and I can sit with them, and I can feel comfortable with those thoughts and not put them out the doors of fear, the thoughts of, doubts or the thoughts or sadness on a thought, a shame or a thousand guilt. A lot of those thoughts come up and when they come up is a feeling of negative energy. And what I've learned that not to suppress those dark thoughts when they come up, work through those thoughts.

Academy therapy has created a pathway of that understanding for me, and unfortunately, I wanted it to have what I just described to you. I wanted it to happen right away, but it was part of a process, and it took time to get to that point, to really realize the value and the benefits of that therapy. How beautifully stated. That is exactly what we see. You know, the the amygdala getting activated when when the traumatic head of event is recalled. And with time and over time that, that event, that memory, that sound is no longer as immediately triggering and hijacking you and taking you over.

And I can just imagine from before you started it, when you were on medications for depression and and for PTSD, and those medications were trying to suppress those activations. Right. But they weren't really helping you process or helping you be with those thoughts in their meditative way. What were the what was the impact of this diagnosis on your life? What was happening in your relationships? What was what was your life like at the time? Where through, the medication itself, it made me feel numb.

But prior to I was married, I was married for 26 years. And that's when, as I mentioned earlier, when the doctors were prescribing to me various medications, to work through, you know, those depressive moments, the PTSD and all that. And it had a traumatic impact on my marriage. It cost me my divorce, in other words. And looking back, knowing what I know now, my has still been married, but I had to go through that process to really understand who I am now. And it's unfortunate that, you know, had to take a couple of people along through that with me.

Now I'm working on that. Yeah, absolutely. Had to look at that person that you were then and the person that you are now. What would you say to that person from the perspective of who you are now in that most compassionate, most supportive way? What would you say to that? That person who had gone through some extreme experiences lived through many traumas from childhood, even in the military thereafter? Who is resilient as well? What would you say to that? That person? Well, first of all, from a compassionate and from my heart, I would say to that person, my wife, ex-wives, you know, from my heart, from a compassionate perspective, I would let them know that I am truly sorry for the disruption that I caused in their lives, because looking at it now, it was a projection of who I thought they were, and it was not who they were at all.

It was just my projection of my thinking going through those different man states of who I thought they were, and it wasn't. So I would I would definitely apologize to them. But at this point in time, I going back to academy therapy effect on day one, I was given a journal and, to this day, I still journal. And for NASA Journal is different from being at a keyboard and trying to write a letter to my ex-wife and to my son saying, hey, I'm sorry. So I do a lot of journaling about those experiences.

And as myself of forgiveness, that's time, you know? So even though they may not never know. But that's my way of healing. Yeah. Because my question also was to you, to that old Cedric, to that Cedric that was had experiences, in a way, deep experiences. Looking at him now, what would you say to him, the old Cedric. What I would say to an old version of myself, I would I would take it all the way back to, where you alluded to earlier childhood traumas. I would take it all the way back to that level because, you know, look, is someone. Oh, all of my pictures.

I have a couple pictures. When I was five years old, maybe even a little younger.

Trauma Triggers and Learning to Respond 13:00

And I look at those pictures and I saw fear, just an unhappy kid. And part of my meditation practice has taught me how to visit my inner child, how to go back and be with that. That inner child is, say, hey, look what I would say would be Cedric. Yeah, things were rough. Look at look at where you are now. And it's kind of like understanding that, like with a marriage, I had to go through that rough childhood period in order to understand who I am now and to be able to go back and visit a younger version of myself and say, Cedric, everything is going to be okay.

Yeah, no, that's basically what I would do, because what I've, discovered here recently is how through academy therapy as well, is how to go back and visit a younger version of myself at different stages in my life. I'm talking about all the way far back, as I can remember of five years old, seven, eight, ten, 15 all the way up to where I'm at now, and use it as a healing process to say everything is going to be okay, and it keeps me grounded. It keeps me in the present moment and it keeps me from living, reliving those childhood traumas I learned from them all.

So it's this keeps me present. That's that's about the best way I address a younger version of myself. That's beautifully said. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. That becomes available right? In ketamine therapy, we can really embody those states that we may have felt before. And because as children, we didn't have a chance. We didn't have a way of describing them or even understanding what was happening when we now, as adults, can connect with that childlike self. So have you felt your childlike self respond, appear.

Heal. What are you saying? Yes I feel oh yeah, that that can be therapy. Isn't it very effective? And the best way I can describe that is through understanding three things. Understanding when I'm out of not body. Okay. From, being lost in thought, for example, ruminating about what happened in the past, why did I have to grow up in an abusive, childhood or community? You know, but understanding going through those traumas caused me, to live over 50 years in my life looking for answers, looking for happiness outside of who I am, not realizing that, the healing aspect of it was right in here all alone.

Yeah. When I see in here in the form of feeling those sensations in a form of feeling those traumas in the form of tension in my body and working through, I never knew how to do that until I really got into the academy therapy experience, right along with my meditation practice and being able to feel those traumas and work through them. It helps to, reduce the trauma aspect of it, but not the memories. I still remember those events, but they're not as traumatizing because I'm still required to take a certain amount of pharmaceutical medication to help with my mood and and nightmares and things of that nature.

But I guess what I'm saying also is recognizing those traumas when they do come up and it happens frequently, and when those traumas come up, they can come up in the form of confessions. I could just feel them in my body. Right? Some of them, I know what they are, and some of them are just don't know. Well, the important thing is, is knowing how to work through them when they do come up. We talk about ketamine assisted therapy, along with integrative medicine, integrative practices, building that integration, those tools that we have both that we know in our heart, in our body and our experiences.

But we know that we have resourcing things that really help us. Journaling. As you describe, meditate, the practices that you prescribe and even teach, I should say, as well as the work that you're doing, in addressing your health, your nutrition, your body health, knowing that that is also part of your mental health, all that, all the things, all the tools that you've really utilized in your healing journey. Would you be able to describe for our audience what what is the term integration therapy mean to you?

What what did that and how did that change as you implemented some of these integrative practices in your lifestyle? Well, integrative to me it means, I guess from an intellectual perspective it means, understanding first that there is no one magic pill. There's going to get rid of my suffering. And like you just mentioned, there are different, modalities that I explore that I, there are new ones that I discover that helps me through that integrative process. And part of that integrative process is understanding.

When I'm on Academy journey is to be able to grab little bits and pieces, even fragments of that experience, and bring it into my everyday life. You know, if I can bring the whole experience into my everyday life, I would. But I can't do that. And understanding that process is it comes in the form of energy.

Marriage, Loss, and Self-Reflection 19:00

Okay? Realizing those moments when of being reactive and recognizing those moments gives me a choice to be more responsive. That's the most important thing that, going through Academy journey helps me when it helps allow that little space for me to be, to step back and take a breath and say, okay, you got choices here. You don't have to react to always outside stimulus in order to make myself feel good. What's your favorite integrative integration activity? Art is one, yeah. What is one? Because go to academy therapy and I didn't paint for about maybe 15 years or so.

But going through academy therapy, it helps, for me to be more creative. It helps me to be able to enjoy the more vibrant colors, you know, because I'm able to use that use my art as a deeper meditative healing modality. And the best way to describe that is whenever I pick that brush up, and miss that pain. And I'm looking at that palette and it's it that canvas is kind of like, there's one with it, and it's just make that there's no sense of time, there's no sense of time. So it takes meditative state.

It takes you into your art, the colors, the use of color, how it might change for you, how to do art, experience, change through treatment. What did you notice about that? Well, what I noticed is that it helped me to be more focus on what I'm doing right here and right now, without worrying about where is it going to be the end result. It helps me to stay present with what's going on. Red thing there with those different colors, and it helps me to like I mentioned earlier, discovery this color in new colors just by mixing certain paints.

Is another way to describe that. I love, I love that. Can I ask you whether images, metaphors, or sensations that have stuck with you since you started, you know, through your ketamine journey? Like, what are some of the images that have come through for you? Well, the images that come through for me, more energy is the best way to describe it. Now I see different. It makes me feel like I'm floating. I feel like I'm floating. But during that time, I feel like I'm still in control of who I am. I guess looking at it from a spiritual perspective and it really I never forget this.

I was doing my ketamine journey. I was really concerned about what my mother might be experiencing after she transitioned. And I remember doing this one ketamine, journey. I see my mother, but I felt her energy, presence. I had a brother. Excuse me? I had a brother. The dad at birth that was older than I was, well, older than me. And, the energy that I saw was both of them being together. And that made me feel really good to have that ketamine. The journey experience, that one experience is this makes me feel good to know that they're in a place and they are together.

So felt that energy. Felt the energy. Yes. If I had to see, you know, I don't know how I would have responded. But I definitely felt the energy of their presence. Yeah. And then how do you take that energy, that experience of, you know, that unification of that energy, that knowing that they're okay, that they're together energetically? How do you play that that learned insight into your life? It makes me more curious. It makes me wonder about what actually happens after transitioning, after we die.

You know, I hear a lot of metaphors. I hear a lot of stories. I read a lot of stories about consciousness. And depending on who you talk to, they say, well, consciousness, you have a soul and you have a consciousness. The soul, to me, is where the spirit rest in two week transition. And was that transition? It happened. And the spirit leaves the body. That's where the conscious consciousness continue to travel. Now, my belief is that I don't know what happens, but there's a possibility that that consciousness is out there and is looking for a way to reconnect with life.

That's about consciousness.

Inner Child Work and Emotional Healing 24:00

That's that's how having that experience, it lets me know that that might be a possibility. So, yeah. Before you went into ketamine therapy, was, was any of this ever something that you thought about or. Yeah, certainly therapy. It was a new discovery for me because, it was more of a spiritual insight because growing up, I was raised Baptist. And to me, well, the way I was raised as a Baptist was we die on a transition. You either go to two places. Either you go up there, you go down there, and to me, it lets me know.

Nobody has ever came back to tell us, but it lets me know that there is a possibility of consciousness continuing to exist after transition. That's that's the way I feel now. Whereas before I didn't have that belief, you know, why not experience, if you want to look at it from a very deep spiritual perspective, is about living now, living now, the best life possible with the. We accept accepting the fact that the body is just a container for consciousness to help us to communicate with through our senses, through the outside world, while we are human.

Then it said, yeah, it does. You're talking about very big experiences, very big insights, and the coming to that, those insights and the coming to of your journey. Yes, ketamine is a component of that. It's a tool. It's it's a method. It's it is a way to easily like you said in earlier. But the elevator experience getting there little bit at a faster pace. But it still requires work, right. It still requires. And I say this to patients of what we facilitate. You are also part of this. You're leading you're the captain of the ship here.

And we will help navigate. We will support you will facilitate, you know, but you're still driving the ship. And that sense of ownership of that process is really important. Of course, early on it's hard, right, because a lot of patients feel stuck. They're stuck in a state of sometimes shock, stuck in a state of incapacitation or stuck in because they're depleted. They're beaten, they're worn down, they're resistant, you know, they're not resistant. It's the medications that are resistant. Right?

It's not that you are resistant. It's the treatment is not working. Something is missing. Ketamine as a treatment to get to that place. But it really requires that person the self, the access to self, that sense of empowerment that emerges. And I, as I hear you, I can hear the voice of that discovery, that curiosity, that the person that you are, that you always were. Well, the metaphor that I like to use as a as part of the healing process is being in the back seat of a car, you know, sitting in the Chelsea or just being a passenger in the back seat, and just looking out is see what's going on.

Just being just observing what's happening. Right. And through the ketamine experience, it helps me to move to the front or back to the passenger, see? And while I'm in that passenger seat, I'm able to experience all those emotions, those physical sensations that I described earlier, the tension in the body, the contractions in a bay. I'm able to experience all that while I'm a passenger. But once I work through that, then I can move to the driver's seat. Okay, now I'm able to see clearly what's going on at the root cause level.

This way I can explain it, and that's what I what works for me. Now, going through the, ketamine experience, it gives me something it, tools to my toolbox in order to work through something between those traumas come up. It's like, okay, feel the trauma. You know, you're in the passenger seat, not experience it. Don't suppress it. Because I feel now, knowing what I know now, suppressing that trauma basically is going to harbor itself somewhere else in my body. And it's just going to come back with vengeance.

It's just going to get stronger and how it come out, I don't know, it could come out in the form of a burst of anger. I just don't know. But I can work through it now. Yeah. No, I got something to work with now and say, okay, I see you anger. Okay? And when I see that anger coming up, is that okay? I feel you, you know, at least I have acknowledged that that anger is there a the same with any other emotions. Guilt. The shame. And a lot of that to me right now where I'm at going through academy therapy is I'm a work in progress.

I'm a work in progress. I spent over 50 years of my life not knowing what it felt like to be in my body, and it's going to take me probably the rest of my life, to peel back the layers of that onion, to get to a root, the root cause of a lot of what I'm suffering from now. And that's okay, because talking with other veterans and even non veterans, they don't understand what it's like to get to that point. And that's unfortunate. So but that's my experience with Academy therapy. Beautifully said.

And I want to bring you in as as you're talking. I'm also imagining you're going to the Healing Center. You know, you're meeting everybody. And as you're getting to get into the passenger seat and you can rely on the staff members

Integration, Art, and Present-Moment Awareness 30:00

and whoever's working with you to be alongside you. Can you speak a little bit about that experience and then what heal? What did you feel was starting to heal within you as you started to kind of step into that? The Healing center. And I know that the the Healing Center has kind of a beautiful, friendly atmosphere where you feel welcomed and you feel you're in with your own people. So I know it has a good vibe. So can you describe some of what that felt like? Oh, this is day one. It's been over a year and a half now, but ever since day one, opening that door and walking into the healing center, everybody from the receptionists to the nurses, the therapists, office manager, everybody in that building has such a positive energy and they have never wavered from that.

I will say this was a big, challenging thing, but what I really do appreciate is the thoroughness of the intake process to make sure that I was healthy enough to make sure that I was a good candidate for the academy therapy. I really appreciate that. And as I begin to go through the therapy arrow since day one, there has always been a doctor there, a nurse and a therapist the whole time to make sure that I was safe and that everything was okay. There. Right there was is is a standard that, sometimes here is in a hell that they just never wavered from and proved that good snacks go out of the gates, that I love those snacks.

You know, I look forward to those snacks because I know, you know, I don't eat or drink anything prior to the sessions. A place of healing should be a place of healing. A hospital, a clinic, you know, the exam room should have a feeling of of healing. Like you should be able to walk into a doctor's office and feel like I'm going to be okay. It shouldn't feel austere and cold and inhuman, and that this is going to be important as a next phase of medicine changes, right? We're going to be moving away from the human contact.

We're going to have I it's not forget that, that there's there's the there's the eye contact is a name component to what's so important to what is shared. Because your story, Cedric which there would be a part two because your story is so, so resonant with so many stories, with so many people and so many experiences. And you have worked through those experiences, your sessions, your due diligence, showing up with a notebook in your journal, preparing for the experiences, reading the material, asking questions, seeking that something's missing.

I'm looking for something I need. Watch me as I do this. Observe me. You know that space set and setting the support around in a certain setting? I think you really take that on and and move with that in the direction that that serves you. And I've seen you do that. Yeah. Tell me, what do you think has healed. Well I think there has healed is well, the best way to explain it is after each ketamine session, everything's going back to day one, breaking down the integration and process. I always explained that my triggers come from all neural pathways.

You know, looking at it from a scientific perspective, I guess, and what I learned through listening to the therapies there is that the ketamine therapy and part of the healing process is causing through ketamine therapies, causing those, neural pathways, this triggering to become dormant. Now, there are all neuro pathways. And doing that, especially after the first three days, I was always told after that first session to do something creative, whether this right writing or art, listening to some good music without words of whatever new setting created during that three day window.

Because that's when the ketamine is most effective when it comes to creating new neural pathways. And through that process, the healing process, that doesn't mean that the all neural pathways can't be triggered again. And to me, this my healing process right there and understanding that process is that when they are triggered is that, again, that healing process has taught me that I don't have to react to that neural pathway when is activated or when it's triggered. And I can step back and take a breath and recognize what's going on and rely more on the new neural pathways of being more responsive.

So what do you see emerging through this therapy for you? Like, what are the new parts of yourself that you're discovering? Well, I would say to new parts of myself that I'm discovering is a better quality of life. And to be a little bit more specific, I guess, would be going through the aging process, you know, I'll wake up with various pains or whatever, for the healing process has helped me to understand that life is going to happen. And when it comes to the pain, whether it is emotional type pain or whether it's a physical type pain, how much of that is actual pain and how much of it is psychosomatic?

How much of it is being made up in my head? And that right there, just knowing that right there gives me a better outlook on life.

Spiritual Insights and Consciousness 36:00

You know, that's the best way I can explain that when it comes to healing. Whereas here, because I didn't know any of this prior to ketamine therapy, and the ketamine therapy has taken it to a deeper level of understand then, which is the next best thing to healing from that process. And in the meantime, but like I mentioned earlier, I still have to take, you know, certain amount of pharmacy articles and hopefully science will lean more toward alternatives. That has less side effects. That helps, you know, with the healing process, whether this acupuncture, chiropractic service, of course, academy therapy, meditation, you know.

So I was happy to hear modern medicine about this shift, this taking place in the medical industry, because she mentioned I, technology I have all arranged is something that's not recognized by most doctors, but it gives me enough data in between doctor's appointments to let me know that I'm okay. And if something do come up, I can make a note of it and say, well, next time I do go to the doctor, I can ask them about HIV. I can let them know about my blood pressure or whatever it is, and and have a conversation with them about it.

So the healing process is, is, is headed toward just having a better quality of life on the emotional and physical level. What do you what would you wish other veterans understood about trauma and the healing process? Speaking to another veteran, and have you had a chance to talk to other veterans who may be going through a similar thing? Yes, I have, the, the veterans that, speak with, right there at the Healing Center instruments. And man, I love those guys because is a rarity outside the Healing Center that, run into a group of veterans that really understand what ketamine therapy is about because we've all been through it.

We've all been through it. Now, there are other veteran organizations that I'm a member, peer support groups, psychotherapy, veteran groups that are not as open to academy therapy. And the ones I do talk to about it one on one, they they're curious about it, but they're not completely open to it. And I explained to them, in order to find out more about it, is to talk with their primary care doctor who, talk with this psychiatrist about it, and try to educate themselves on what it's about, and at least try one time, try to least one time and see what if feel like and if it's for you, talk with the doctor about it to see if more Academy sessions are required, but if not, leave it alone.

At least you tried it that one time. Yeah, yeah, I think it's not for everyone and it is something that does require understanding. Looking at it from that frame of reference, learning about oneself can be really challenging. Can be, you know, going back into those experiences can open up a space. Sometimes that we don't realize is there. And then then comes that other part where this is a journey. This is a process. I have to still do the work, even ongoing, because there's still so many layers to our lives and our experiences, and they show up in different times of our healing journey.

So I think it's important to even talk about that. Those layers of our experience and how they show up as you're doing your ongoing work in healing, where it's about doing the work. Because I feel that even ketamine therapy, taking pharmaceuticals that the doctor prescribed to treat some of the illnesses that I deal with, not going to work by themselves. It take the, exercise, nutrition and diet is four things that that I like to rely on when it comes to exercise and drinking water, drinking plenty of water.

Those four things is flexibility, okay. Diet and nutrition, endurance and cardio. To me, that's the key to helping, the pharmaceuticals to work the way they supposed to because it's taken the pharmaceuticals without at least 1 or 2 of those four things. But like I say, especially with the war, the idea that they will work a lot better for you also see that too. You know, a healthy diet, you know, a healthy gut, a less inflamed gut. You know, sleep is an important factor in healing. And your work in, you know, how you address your cardiac health, your health, your pain, working through the types of pain

Healing Center Support and the Role of Acceptance 41:00

as you described and being open to seeing it in that way. I think it's a lot of times patients see pain is a one uniform feeling, but it when you really dissect pain out, there's so many types of pain. And working through that emotional pain, that psychological, that physical pain, that resistant pain, and then the the gut pain of course, there's so many different types of pain, but within working with those symptoms and seeing them with a different vantage point of view and looking and then asking those questions about what is the root cause.

And I think you've done that in the work that you then here. Yeah, I really appreciate it because, I was just dealing with everything that was on the surface, not knowing that I had to really see clearly what was causing this, because being in in combat, there was so much what is this? And when I came back from that Gulf War, there was a lot of crying going on with me, a lot of shame and a lot of guilt about a lot of what happened in the environment that I was in. And and it took me a while to get over that.

And like I say, it was all through putting a Band-Aid on it. But I was, you know, the one other thing I like to interject here is the ketamine therapy. I saw all that. It took it to a whole new level of being in that environment is seeing what I saw do academy therapy and not running away from it, accepting it, saying, hey, what was your intention when you was in that environment? My attitude was to go over there, do a job not to do harm to anybody, and going through academy therapy and being able to understand that intention and making it through all that and coming back in one piece, it helped me to be at peace with myself a lot more.

So that was part of my healing process of when it comes to, PTSD. Yes. You speak about the moral injury and coming back to one's self with that in that loving and compassionate way. That's beautiful. Beautifully said. Was there anything that you felt during the ketamine therapy or afterwards that's felt like a turning point for you? The turning point was acceptance. You know, accepting a lot of the fear of being able to, understand the shame and the guilt and being able to be with it. That was a turning point for me, conquering that fear.

And as you describe, it's like you need to have those people in the room around you supporting that, letting you know you're safe, and also being like, it's okay, it's all right. You know, you can let go and you'll be all right. And trusting that listening to you right now really brings back the point of root cause sometimes that resistance to what we fear, that fear that the resistance to fear creates a body weapon you body feels like got to be resisting fear all the time. And now that you have spoken to acceptance, accepting it and then the resistance falls.

So I just wanted to highlight that point of how same thing that you spoke about is what is acceptance? It really is accepting that place that you were and seeing it from this light and saying, I don't have to fear anymore. I can accept that this thing happened to me and I'm going to be okay. Yes, this is about working through it. You know, knowing that I have a few other choices out there, to deal with in my toolbox, instead of thinking that there was no way out. And it is this way out. And, you know, I guess one of the another turning point is thinking that there is no way out and being able to sit with that moment of fear, because I've learned also that on a subjective level, that is being worked on below the iceberg, there is some type of therapeutic effect of something is going on, even though I may not be conscious of it.

So that that definitely is something like habit is an area. I want it to happen now. I want it to be fixed right now. The moment of healing. Yeah. Thank you for bringing us back to just the experience of awareness where, you know, we can just be with our experience being the. Now, I've really always treasured your ability to bring us into that and very clearly speak to the experience you've had. And how you're navigating it in your life. It's just been an honor to to be with you, on this journey and to witness it.

So thank you for sharing the. Well, thank you very much for that. That same for inviting me in again just to be here and to do this podcast is another modality for healing, because it gives me a chance to express a lot of things to, with you both that a lot of other people may not understand or can relate to. So I appreciate it very much. I wish it was more doctors out there like that. But, because I fear that. So those doctors out there, I read it to quite a few that, you know, kind of say, hey, what do you think about ketamine therapy?

And they like, oh, no. And how good it is. And I feel that it's just like with the veterans, I feel that the doctors that they're really concerned about the mental health of a lot of veterans are none. Veterans is suffering through a depression or PTSD or whatever, would track themselves at least one time to see what it feel like. They probably would have a different perspective on the therapy, the academy therapy.

Lifestyle, Veterans, and Final Reflections 47:00

So thank you for sharing your story in such a generous way. I think your story and the way you've told it, and the way you hold your what you've learned, it's very generous to share that with others, and I'm sure that will help others to also understand what this therapy is like. But because it's really hard to describe. But I think we've done a really good job today. Oh, trying to break it down. And I'm sure we'll continue to learn as the as the therapy progresses and our journey progresses. So thank you so much.

Very good word. One word of what healed for you. What would be one word or one phrase of what you'd like to share? I guess even, you know, not even if you this question you can answer, you know, something you want to say to somebody else who's in who would have been you, a year and a half ago. What would you say to your to that or what would you say healed for you? What I would like to see in one word is the word that I mentioned earlier. And that is acceptance. And the reason why I chose the word acceptance is because also is related to me.

What I'm experiencing now is going through the aging process and realizing that this body is limited. The life expectancy of it is going to, you know, I'm to transition one of these days, but it's acceptance. And I do have my moments. And this is about not having a fear of death. So but the word acceptance is what comes to my acceptance. And this is so many places. Thank you. Thank you both for being here. I really appreciate again that the working with you as a privilege, it's working with patients is a privilege.

It is an honor. And it is, you've done so much for so many other people. As a veteran, you've served your country and you are now helping other veterans and helping so many people, with this story, with what you've shown to be, to be possible, the transformation that is possible. So thank you for sharing to that today. Thank you. Thank you both for Damar and thank you, data. See me. Thank you for tuning in to Doctor Talks. We hope today's episode has enlightened and inspired you on your path to optimal health.

Each day is a new opportunity to make choices that empower your well-being. For more insights and strategies, subscribe to our podcast and visit our website. Your WW di Doctor talk.com. Stay connected, stay healthy and join us next time on Doctor Talks. Real talks from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most.