Discover The 7 Secrets To True Rest

Introduction to Sleep Deep Summit and Dr. Dalton-Smith 0:00

This is doctor talks. Real talk from real doctors. Only issues that matter to you most. All right. We're continuing with the Sleep Deep Summit, looking at new ways to treat insomnia and sleep apnea. I'm your host, doctor Audrey Wells, and I am really excited to talk to our next speaker for some personal reasons. So, Doctor Saundra Dalton-Smith is a board certified internal medicine doctor, a speaker and award winning author. And I first discovered her through her TEDx talk. I remember it was in 2019.

On March 28th, it had just come out. I remember that day because it was my birthday, and I was looking for a way to be better at rest. So, Doctor Dalton-Smith, it's a pleasure to see you. Welcome. Thank you so much. So I want to dive right in. And because, I've known about you for a while and your work has satisfied a professional need for me. Can I tell you about that? Please do. Yeah. So a lot of times when I help people fix their sleep, they are still tired. They report fatigue, they report, feeling like they're not able to, have the energy that they want through the day.

And it's quite frustrating because for all intents and purposes, their sleep looks cured. When I discovered your work about rest, it was, it was helpful to be able to understand how to talk to people about that. But it was also helpful for me personally, because I am very good at sleep, but I am not so good at rest. Do you ever see this for the people that you work with all the time? It's very common. Yeah. And it's kind of a paradox, right? You know, it's it. I think people usually associate being tired, with sleep, but, I can tell you, my sleep is very good.

And I took your rest quiz online,

Why Sleep Alone Doesn't Fix Fatigue 2:06

back in 2019, and I've just taken it again today in preparation for this interview. So I want to go over some of the components of that quiz, and I have to start out by saying, you got me with the first question, which was, if I could spend an extra hour finishing my to do list or sleep. I choose sleep. For me, it's to do list every single time. What is this question meant to capture? What sort of rest efficiency does it name? Yeah, it begins by really evaluating. Do you have any respect for rest?

I think that's where I have to start with most people. What's your mindset around rest? I think a lot of us automatically think rest is related to cessation activities is simply about stopping. And so the first question is just to begin to get people to start looking at their view of rest. And in doing so, it helps me to see, how likely and prone are you to be in some type of rest deficit? Because if you're fighting rest, if you think it's only about stopping and not about restoration, if you have this, kind of mindset that rest is lesser than that, it's taking something away from you and you're pushing more towards that to do list rather than taking a moment to reprieve and whatever that may look like.

All seven of the types of breaths can become a deficit. In that case. You know, I didn't score normally on any of these seven rest deficits. So, before we dive into some of these results, I wonder if you can list the different types of rest deficits that you've described and maybe a few words about what that means. Yeah. So there are seven types. Of rest include physical, mental, spiritual, emotional, social, sensory and creative. And I'm often times asked, you know, can you fail the assessment now with an assessment that gives you an idea of where you're at in each area.

And most of us won't have it's scores like static scores. They won't be exactly the same every time you take them, because each time you take the assessment, you're going through different things in your life. Your day was different. How you used energy. And that's really what it boils down to, is just evaluating, are the places in your life where you're expending energy? Are you doing restorative things to pour back into those areas? Because if you don't, then they're prone to become deficient.

And so physically that divides up into both active and passive. So passive being sleeping and napping. And then the active components of physical rest include things like stretching and yoga and using a foam roller and massage therapy, all of those things that help with circulation and lymphatics. Everything down to like body ergonomics, how you use your office space, mental rest, looks at your cerebral space. How clear is it?

The Seven Types of Rest 5:00

Are you able to concentrate? Focus. Is your memory still good? Your mind's very busy and you can't kind of get it to a quiet place. It can be hard to concentrate and have clarity. Spiritual rest has a lot to do with purpose and belonging. And that sense, that your life has meaning. Emotional rest looks at exactly that. Emotions and how you're processing them. Your emotional, resilience plays a part in that as well as well as, your coping mechanisms with emotions. Social rest looks at your relationships and how they are either draining you or pouring back into you.

Because a lot of times relationships can become very one sided. So even ones that can do both, that can pull from you and pour into you, if we're not careful, they can become very one sided, and you might find yourself being more depleted in certain relationships versus others. And then sensory and creative or two that a lot of people have never heard a thought about. Sensory has to deal with our sensory inputs, everything from the gadgets we use to the light, sound, smells and our atmosphere and the effect they have on us, the effect they have on our brain.

The processing out them, whether conscious or subconscious and the draining effect that those can have. And then creative looks at how we process information specifically problem solving and the creative processes within our, mind and our spirit. And then what are the things we do to awaken creativity? What are the things we do that inspire on wonder in our lives? That's a fantastic, encapsulation of the seven types of rest. And I, I also want to underscore two points that I think are really helpful for the audience to focus on.

One is that this use of energy is what you're describing as depleting the different, the seven different types of rest, and the depletion does not get resolved within action. It sounds like you need to do something to restore that particular type of category. In many cases, I look at it often times like this. My background is an internal medicine. I've been in clinical practice for over 20 years, and you know, somebody walks into my emergency room and they're bleeding. And I tell my nurse, you know, suture them up and send them on their way.

That could be sufficient in most cases. But if that person was on a blood thinner, or if they've been bleeding for 12 hours, I could have her suture them up and send them out. Still anemic. So they're going to be drained, depleted and exhausted when I send them out that door. Although I've actually stopped the bleeding. That's what we do on the weekends. A lot of times when we Netflix and chill, we suture it up. But we've been so depleted over the course of our week that now we are leaving in an anemic energy state, and we wonder, why am I so tired on Monday?

I laid around all day. Well, you didn't do anything to pour back into the places in many cases that the deficit existed. That's really helpful. And I like that analogy. You got to stop the bleeding first, but also look at underlying causes. Make sure that you're not, missing anything that could be sort of eroding your energy level. And the weekend patch. Oh my gosh, I think so many people are doing catch up on the weekend just to keep their head above water. And when I got the vocabulary that you give in these seven types of rest, it became a lot easier to see where, not only I was deficient, but people that I was trying to help were deficient.

So I want to, tell you, my top three areas of depletion. So mental depletion was number one. Physical depletion was number two and sensory number three. I will say that mental depletion is easy for me to describe. I'm constantly creating as an entrepreneur. I'm putting out a lot of information. Physically, I carry stress in my body, particularly shoulders. And from a sensory perspective, I think, I've got two little boys. They are like Tasmanian devils and a lot of what you talk about with sensory, sensory depletion goes with, you know, interaction with young children.

So I wonder if you can comment on these types of rest specifically, how do I get help? Yeah. Well, I love how you described sensory with young kids because often times you're right. It's the background noises that have become a part of our lives and that oftentimes you can't just get rid of. I mean, you can't just get rid of your kids because they're they're being kids.

Physical and Mental Rest Strategies 9:39

They're being noisy and playing games and all the things. And so it's looking at what are some ways we can downgrade our sensory input. You can't get rid of the kids if you work in a noisy if you work in construction, you can't get rid of machines. That's part of your job. So you then start looking at what are ways we can downgrade sensory input. Do we turn off the radio or TV or whatever it is when we're in the home and no one's watching it? On your commute back and forth from work rather than listening to something, which is what a lot of us do, you might benefit yourself more by driving home in silence, because that's actually what you're needing.

You're needing a sensory reprieve, having moments in your day where you maybe put on some noise cancellation earphones, not because you want to listen to something, but because you don't want to hear something. You want to block out the noise for a short period of time. And then honestly, with sensory, a big thing that we've notice for a lot of people is downgrading the notifications on your phone. A lot of us get excessive amounts of notifications from everything from the weather to the news to social media and everything in between.

And many of those notifications are not things that are urgent. They're not something we actually must see at that exact moment. So you can keep all of the apps on all of your devices. But actually take back a little bit of your own personal health control and go into those apps when you actually want to learn or hear that information, rather than just giving them permission to push you little doses of stress and endorphins and, you know, and cortisol whenever it feels like it. As far as the mental rest part of it, if you happen to be someone who is a, I call it a chronic thinker.

You think about the things you're thinking about. You're definitely, definitely information. And you know, you're some of us are just kind of hot wire to be information hungry. We like to learn. And people who like learning and like information have a tendency to be processors and processors, and their mind works very similar to a computer. It keeps processing until something turns it off. And so I find for a lot of people with a mental rest deficit, they have to find some way to adopt mindfulness or meditation type practices in their life.

Now, when I say those words, I can already feel AIS like, oh, she says that meditation. I don't meditate, but I think we need to kind of start looking at it a little bit more holistic and not just kind of boxing it into whatever your either religion or practice beliefs look like. Because I know for a lot of the people that I work with, they actually get mindfulness type experiences and meditative practices when they are physically using their body. So, for example, if you're someone who finds that you go jogging while jogging, it's not restful in itself.

Actual physical activity of jogging. You're using your physical body. But for some people that the excessive physical use of their body helps their brain to shut up. And so while they're jogging, they're actually thinking specifically about their breathing and their cadence, which then focus the mind down to, to something. So my nude that is actually at the similar process in the brain as meditation and so heavy weightlifting, jogging, as I mentioned, knitting, stitching things that can put you in kind of almost like robotic mode can act like a meditative practice.

And for someone who, especially if you sit all day, your body may not be tired. So the jogging part doesn't bother you because your body's not the issue. So brain that has to be able to quiet down. So. So I think we have to look at some of those kind of what is rest and what is and divide them up from so that you're not thinking that rest is just standing still, laying down all of those things. It's really getting specific about the parts of you that need that restoration. This is this is all gold.

I can't even tell you how much I council people who have monkey mind at night. Their thoughts are bouncing around. They're ruminating. Oftentimes it's associated with worry, anxiety, and it turns out they don't have any white space during their day to kind of make a to do list or strategize about the weekend. And so at night, when it's dark and quiet and calm, the brain comes out to kind of bloom and play. And what you're describing, especially with the jogging, I love that because that evacuation of energy, that physical energy, helps soothe the mind to so true.

And I love what you shared about, you know, that nighttime pattern so many of us get caught up in where you lay down and it's like, oh, now all of a sudden my brain wants to wake up and be creative and be all of these things. You know, one of the things I find that that helps a lot of people is just that when they get caught in that rumination process to start practicing brain dumping, having a notepad that, you know, I don't get, I try to keep people from getting locked up into, oh, I've heard this before, I don't journal.

I'm not saying journal. It could literally be on a post-it note or, you know, just a little piece of paper where you jot down whatever the thought is. But there's something about that practice of jotting it down. It's almost as if it's gives the brain permission to release it. It's like the brain now says it is no longer my responsibility to keep up with that little tidbit of information. I can relax now, and I think we a lot of us need to get into that practice, because whenever you start ruminating on a thought, it's like your mind will hold on to that thought, even at the expense of you going to sleep.

It's so true. And we're not really, operating with the best part of our brains. When the night starts. And if we wake up during the night. So that rumination tendency tends to be stronger. And I kind of liken it to doing a purge of your closet. You got to take everything out, put the clothes on the bed, and then it gives you some distance. What am I going to keep? What do I want to, throw out and, you know, sometimes middle of the night thinking can be rather, it's just not believable the stuff that your mind comes up with.

So it gives you some, a chance to kind of evaluate. Is that really true? No. So I'm going to stop thinking it. I love that, and it's a really tangible way that people who wake up in the middle of the night and can't get back to sleep can sort of aid that process once they're aware it's happening. You know, one of the things I find a lot with, with clients, I coaching people I work with is sometimes a lot of times it is the to do list. And it these kind of creative thoughts that come up. I find a lot of times, as you mentioned, worrying, I find it often that when someone has like a conversation maybe that they had at work that they're repeating or they're there, I say, replaying in their head, and it's like they're going through the different scenarios of what they wish they'd said and how how it affected them and all these other things.

Like I'm often asked, do I write down the conversation? And that's actually usually not the problem. The problem is something about that interaction usually has awakened something emotionally inside of you.

Emotional, Creative, and Sensory Rest 17:00

And we're talking about mental wrath. But because the brain functions both mentally and emotionally, sometimes that rumination is part of the emotional rest. Trying to work itself out in the middle of the night. So rather than jotting down the conversation, which actually doesn't help, I always have people evaluate this question what did that interaction make you feel? Because if it made you feel something negative, made you feel less than made you feel incompetent, made you feel disrespected, especially if it's something at work or with a spouse.

Write down what what it made you feel. Don't try to process it right, then just write it down so that the emotion has been given the validity of existing in a space. And then the next morning, because once you release it, you're going to feel more comfortable. It's like, okay, I recognize what that is. Go to sleep, wake up the next morning and then process through why you felt that way. I couldn't agree with you more. And oftentimes I say sleep is an emotional experience. You enter sleep through an emotion that's generally neutral, maybe slightly positive and low amplitude.

And if you can't sleep, oftentimes the feelings are not safe, not enough or not congruent with our values. So I love that. It's a really great way to get some perspective on what's going on for you in the middle of the night, and then follow up the next day with processing. And I'm wondering, what does that look like? What what is emotional process processing look like for you? Yeah. So, you know, with emotional rest, I think too often we get fearful that we're going to trauma up. And and so we don't do emotional rest.

Emotional rest really is just having that the freedom to be authentic about what you're feeling, being able to share, those emotions without having to clean them up so that they're easier for somebody else to understand or digest. Just saying something as it is. However, when we start being concerned about trauma dumping, we oftentimes are. What the issue is, is we don't want to bring another person into our pain. But emotional rest doesn't really do that. You know, when you're sharing about what an event did to you, how it made you feel, what emotions that evoke in you.

You're not taking someone through all of the details of the event. When when I sit down with someone and they're telling me their their story and they're not telling me about what what they experienced, they're actually painting a picture. Like we're going into a movie. And when that happens, that's when we're trauma dumping because you're basically trying to it's like it's like a writer writing a fiction novel or, screen editor writing a play. You want the person who has experienced that to feel the emotions.

That is not what we want. We want them to understand what the experience did to us. And it's a much more vulnerable situation to say, you know, that relationship made me feel used then to then to say, this is what he did to me. It's easier for me to tell you what he did to me and get you all the more in the details of the relationship, rather than saying, this is what it made me feel personally. So I think we have to make sure that when we're doing emotional rest, we're talking about our own feelings.

We're talking about the what our vulnerable moments were in that interaction, and we're making space to heal, whether that be in the conversation with a person, friend, a therapist, a coach, or, you know, whoever, whoever you feel is a safe place to share those emotions. However, some people experience emotional rest through expression artistically. Now this is confused with creative rest. But creative rest is actually not the productivity or the production rather of a creative element. It's the appreciation of it.

So there's no work involved with creative rest. It's just the appreciation. However, for some people playing music, drawing, art, acting, theater, acting out within theater, all of those can be expressions of how they share their emotions. I'm a writer and part of my writing is more scientific and clinical and all of that. And part of my writing is poetry, because it's how I process pain. And so when I'm writing and I'm processing pain and, and whatever else is going on in my life, those types of negative emotions, I tend to express them through an artistic expression.

And so nobody in the world ever will see those, because they're kind of just my way of releasing that. That's so interesting. And I think I see what you're saying. Your creative expression is emotional. Rest is a relief. Yes, but the creativity expressed could actually necessitate restoration for creativity. So then you would go into nature or appreciate art that's already done by somebody else? That's exactly right. So I get so one of the ways that I get emotional rest is I write poetry, and in writing the poetry, I can share the hard emotions of being a physician in the middle of Covid and, and the things you see and the things you wish you never saw, you know, those kind of things.

So I can express that without bringing anybody else into the trauma of it with me, so I can get healing that I need without harming anyone else. However, when I need creative rest, I just as you say that for me it's water. Over 60% of the population experience creative rest around bodies of water when they experience through nature. So I go and I do a walk around, lake in my area. And so as I'm walking around the lake, I'm appreciating the beauty of nature and that it, it opens up something inside of me creatively that fills me back up.

It brings me back to a place of feeling restored and energized and refreshed. That's what so many people are looking for. Feeling restored and energized and refreshed. And what you're describing takes a fair amount of self-awareness. And I think that that self-awareness can also be augmented with practices like meditation, however that looks, and practices like journaling, however that looks. But one of the things I commonly deal with is hypnotism by an electronic screen at night, where self-awareness is quite low because a person is just scrolling and looking for another dopamine hit, or gets emotionally engaged in something that is not related to their own life at all.

Talk to me about screens. Yeah, I call that the nightly escape. I think a lot of us practice escapism as our form of rest. We don't know how to rest. We don't have the details, oftentimes, of even understanding what type of rest we need. And so we try to rest simply by sleeping eight hours, and then we wake up the next morning, feel exhausted, and then rest feels like it doesn't work for you, because what you did with sleep, you didn't actually rest are not the same thing. And so I think that escapism then becomes a way that we zone out, so to speak, and shut our brain down long enough, desperate to get some type of reprieve.

Because we think that that's at least, at least I'm not thinking about my own stuff while I'm thinking about, you know, whoever I'm watching on TV. I think for a lot of us, we have to get very real about are we practice, are we watching TV or movies? Because it's, creative rest element is something that actually feeds our creativity and inspires us and motivates us. And we leave it feeling better than when we entered in. Or if we're spending time kind of glued to our screens as a way of ignoring

Screens, Escapism, and Rest in Daily Life 25:00

the disconnect that we feel with the world around us and with our life. It's a hard question to ask, you know? And it's not. It's what I have to ask myself. I often times tell people I didn't write my book Sacred Rest, because I was just like, oh, this is a great idea. You know, I burned out, I burned out in a profession I love. And I knew if I was going to stay in health care in any capacity, that I had to figure out a way that that rest and restoration was sustainable. It wasn't going to be boiled down to a weekend, you know, here and there.

It wasn't going to be just whenever I could get a vacation twice a year. It had to be something that I could incorporate into the middle of a busy and active life. And I think that's where many of us have to get to a place of of recognizing that that self-discovery, although difficult, you know, once you start recognizing how you restore, you don't have to keep discovering that over and over again. You then get to transition to being more intentional about, now, how do I make this habitual? How do I incorporate this into my real life?

You know, the life I currently have, not quitting all my jobs or, you know, whatever. Just this current life. How do I bring in some restorative elements to help myself stay in a place of being? Well, that's so, important to underscore. And this is, sort of an in-depth conversation about looking at oneself and taking responsibility for what you're doing or not doing in your life. I think it's interesting when you talk about, social media and engaging with that in at bedtime or even in the middle of the night, because in a way it's a social depletion, but I think it can ding other things as well, like your mental energy or your emotional, your emotional rest.

And with social media and maybe even especially since the pandemic, there's been kind of, this distancing that comes with, people, even people in your own family, people are, farther apart or they lost connections. So one thing I want to be sure and, and talk about is this concept of how emotional rest and social rest are related when we're talking about interacting with a real life person versus a person who's online or virtual. Yeah, that's such a great question. Because with with everything that's, you know, gone on over the past few years, there's been a huge shift to a lot of things being done virtual.

And there's this mindset that virtual is just as good as in person. And, you know, there's a lot of things you can do virtually that are similar to being in person, but not exactly the same. There's a power of just being in the presence of some someone. There's some things that you can see when you're you're face to face, so to speak, with someone in person that you can't necessarily see behind the screen. Over the past couple of years, we've had a lot we've had over, I think, a quarter over quarter, a million people now who've taken that assessment at risk with.com to evaluate their personal risk deficits.

And so we're able to kind of see how these scores in different areas correlate. And whenever there's a rise in and an emotional rest deficit, there tends to be a rise in social deficits. At the same time, because they do both require people with emotional rest. Most of us aren't using art to express our emotions. We are expressing it with people. And so then you have to determine who are the people in your life who don't need anything from you. Because if you're going to someone and you're trying to receive something and they're pulling on you, it's a no win situation.

Unfortunately, most of us, the majority of people in our lives, are those people who are needing things from us. They're negatively pulling from our social energy. And so we limit oftentimes the people who are life giving, the ones who are actually pouring back into us, because since they are not demanding on our time, we don't feel them. We don't feel that the pull to actually create space for them, we we make space for the people who are more demanding, and those demanding people are the ones who are usually draining us.

Now, when you add in social media on top of that, it's not just the people in your immediate vicinity. Now you have people who actually can reach you from thousands of miles away, and they're also pulling on your energy, because the nature of social, of social media is not giving. It's not a generous atmosphere. It's more of a what's in it for me atmosphere. And so it's a negative pull socially on most of us continuously, I totally agree. I mean, you're giving up your attention. You're giving your even just likes or hearts or whatever.

You're you're depleting yourself when you interact that way to people who you'll never meet, people who don't ever even necessarily represent themselves authentically online. And so I think that contributes to the depletion, you know, I think that, when you look at rest, it it makes so much sense to kind of deliberately go through and ask yourself, what am I missing? And how can I, replenish that in your book? I, I would wonder, is that sort of described with examples given? Because sometimes I have a hard time coming up with ways to replenish the things that I need.

Yeah, yeah. And the book Sacred Rest, recover your life, renew your energy, restore your sanity. What we ended up doing, we went through all seven types of rest. We actually divided the book up into two sections. The first half of the book talks about the seven types of rest. Why rest? Why we're not resting all of those kind of things. The second half talks about what I call the gifts of rest, which are more of a spiritual kind of approach to now that you know the science behind it. Let's look at some of the other components of it.

But in that first half of the book, we talk about the the rest method, which is first are recognizing your current rest, evaluating your situation so that you're evaluating what's led to this deficit, as is the science and the research.

Rest, Culture, and Workplace Wellness 31:30

So you actually understand what it is you're trying to fix. And then T is today's application. So we gave examples of, of how to get rest in each of those areas so that people can have, you know, some ideas of where to begin. But the thing is, these examples and the ways you can restore are as individualized and as vast as there are people and personalities. And so I always recommend that people, you know, try some of the ones we recommend, but then look at it and see what works for you. What are what are variations of that that would fit your belief, that fit your lifestyle, that fits your climate?

Because whether you live in a rural setting or a, in the middle of, you know, downtown New York or Chicago, it's going to be different how you experience some of these things. And so all of that has to come into play. I'm a realist. You know, when I sit down with the patient and I'm talking to them about, you know, diabetes or high blood pressure, if they tell me, well, this is my lifestyle, I don't tell them, oh, go get a new life. That's just not realistic. We have to start where you're at, come up with some strategies for right where you're at now as you're making changes to improve in these different areas.

That makes sense. And it occurs to me that the next time I'm awake in the middle of the night, thinking about how I could get better rest would be a great activity to soothe my brain. You mentioned 250 million people have taken this test. I'm curious to know if there's any differences in women versus men, especially as I think of the invisible burden that many women have, especially if they work and have children trying to manage everything with some semblance of balance. What is, what are the results of these 250 million surveys?

Yeah, it's been really, really crazy. When we have some studies now, they're in different countries. Some I can talk about, some I can't that are, that are in the process of being released, as it relates to women in certain countries and their, their leave and how that looks as far as rest. And, you know, some of the things that we're finding is it is very different. It differs based on cultures that based on beliefs within cultures about what rest looks like. And, and really, I don't want to say the value of rest, but I, I don't know, another way of terming that, in some cultures, rest is just not seen as valuable.

Work is what's valuable. Rest is like the the evil cousin, that you deal with if you have to. But it's not something that actually is seen as helping productivity. And so it's a matter of actually having to change the cultural belief, even around what rest and leave and restorative practices and all of these things mean. You know, one of the things we're noticing is that there are certain companies in the US, as well as certain countries, where there is an importance placed upon restorative practices.

And we see increase innovation, we see decrease illness and we see decrease employee turnover. We see improved employee morale. And you see all of these positive changes that occur. But still the culture oftentimes thinks, well, if I if I train my employees to do restore restorative practices, that the work is going to decrease and productivity is going to go down wherever everything in literature and research actually shows the exact opposite of that, because people are resources just like anything else.

And just as you would have to charge up your Apple Watch at the end of the day, or it's going to just die on you. It's the very same thing with human life. If we don't have recharge moments throughout our day, week, year, if we don't have those sat in place, people die. They die, their passions die, their motivations die, their energy die, their relationships die, their health. All of these things can be depleted. And we have to recognize that there are ways that we can maintain it without it costing us anything other than intentionality.

Oh my gosh, I love all of that. And it kind of the equivalent with sleep is the idea that I'll sleep when I'm dead or I'm gonna. I love that one. Yeah. You know, it's pretty late to decide to sleep, but it's totally. And it makes no sense. You're going to you're going to die earlier if that's the attitude that you adopt. Oh my gosh. This has been a fantastic conversation. And I know that there's people out there who would want to learn more about you and read your book and take their rest. Quiz.

Can you explain how people work with you and where they should go to find you? Yes, the rest quiz is simple enough. You can take the it's a free assessment at Simply Rest quiz.com,

Where to Find Dr. Dalton-Smith and Closing 36:30

and my main website is that Doctor Dalton smith.com. That's Dr. Dalton smith.com. And the way that we work with people we we tend to work with corporations on for the most part a lot of companies hire us to either do trainings or consulting as it relates to their workplace wellness initiatives. I find that most of the time, the issue is that we have to bridge that gap between rest and productivity so that, first of all, the leaders understand that there is a healthy connection between the two and that we can then translate that over into their teams so that we're able to build people back up and create well-being cultures within the country.

That sounds like good common sense to me. Absolutely. Listen, it's been a pleasure to speak to you. Thanks so much for contributing to this conversation. As a tangent to sleep, you need to take care of your rest. Thank you very much and I hope to see you again soon. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to Doctor Talks. We hope today's episode has enlightened and inspired you on your path to optimal health. Each day is a new opportunity to make choices that empower your wellbeing. For more insights and strategies, subscribe to our podcast and visit our website w ww dot.

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