Change Epigenetics with Energy & Info

Kashif Khan

Welcome back, everybody. We’re gonna dive into another really cool subject today. We’ve talked a little bit about epigenetic expression. It’s sort of popped its head through in some of these discussions we’ve had. It’s been hard to talk about how to take action on it, and that’s why we’re joined by Harry Massey today. So first of all, thanks for joining us.

Harry Massey

It’s pleasure to be here.

Kashif Khan

We’re gonna look at how you can literally alter your energetic and informational environment to alter your epigenome. So, I mean, in the work that Harry’s been doing, he has literally seen an outcome. He’s literally seen an effect of his work, and it’s really cool that you’re able to share this with us. But I know that your personal background, I mean, this is driven by your own personal sort of drive to get better yourself. I heard you were quite ill when you were young.

Harry Massey

You know, I was extremely, well, I was actually bedridden for 10 years, but maybe I’ll just start just before that. So, I’m an avid rock climber today, but I started my climbing when I was 14 or so. And when I went to university, I was climbing overhanging faces in the French Alps. I’d climb without ropes 100 foot above the ocean, and sometimes I would fall off into these crashing waves and hope they didn’t crash me into the cliffs.

Kashif Khan

Wow.

Harry Massey

When I was 21, I ended up, three climbing trips actually led me to being bedridden for the next seven years. On the first trip, I went ice climbing on Ben Nevis in Scotland. Ice climbing’s much more delicate than rock climbing, and sometimes you come across patches that are extremely brittle, whereby like, you teeter, teeter, tetter up as delicately as you can. I was a few hundred meters up this ice face. I placed my ice ax what I thought was carefully, but not carefully enough. I made my move, the ice shattered, and the next thing I realized is I’m basically falling backwards onto the slope below. I managed to arrest my fall in this steep snow slope below, but unfortunately, although I was in pain, I walked off the mountain, and although I was in pain, it didn’t really seem like any that was broken. 

So I went to the local Scottish pub, had a whiskey, and it wasn’t ’til a couple of years later after I had a paragliding accident that I was told that I’d fractured my spine during that fall. But I didn’t stop climbing, and before that, I went, well, sorry, just after that incident, I went to Chamonix in the French Alps. I got halfway up another big mountain and started getting this fever where I’m shaking and shivering. So I got down the mountain as soon as I could, checked into a hotel. That turned into, I think in the States you call it mono. We call it glandular fever, which basically, I had that for like, the next couple of weeks. But I didn’t know what it was, and after that, I just became sort of increasingly more exhausted. I attempted one more mountaineering trip to Europe, thinking, as you probably would, that the mountain air and exercise would cure us. It was all a healthy thing to do. Couldn’t have been more wrong. 

That trip exhausted me so much that I ended up stuck in my tent, eating dried bananas ’til I managed to summon the energy to drive myself home. And really, that was really the beginning of having bedbound chronic fatigue, really from that moment, my days spent flat on my back, staring at the ceiling. It was really like living in a dark cloud, where you’re trying to focus enough to remember what on earth you’re thinking. You’re like, “Oh, what the fuck did I just think?” You spend half the time just trying to remember what the thought was. Two years of Western medicine, couldn’t figure out what was wrong with me. One doctor told me like, 80% of people who had chronic fatigue syndrome basically have it for life, “So take these antidepressants and just suck it up,” really. Like, they didn’t know what to do. I just thought, honestly, I don’t know if you mind if I swear, but I just said, “Fuck that,” and then I researched and tried everything to get my energy back, following every protocol to the letter. 

I went to Africa to do a water fast, lost a third of my body weight. So while fasting’s good, I wouldn’t recommend extreme fasting. The next thing I knew, I was in a wheelchair. I tried IVs, supplements, all sorts of diets. I didn’t try the eat-meat-only diet. That one was popular 20, 25 years ago. Ozone, coffee enemas that deplete my adrenals, and basically just trying to get well with just biochemistry. Honestly, it was extremely exhausting. I was just getting worse, not better. So I laid in my bed staring at the ceiling, not climbing, not going on dates, not having a career, and it wasn’t one year, not two, not even five. 

It was seven whole years trying all those different therapies until finally, I thought to myself, “If I don’t have energy, “why don’t I study where energy comes from? And that led me to bioenergetics, the study of energy in living systems. So I wrote to the leading professional in the field with, I was using Yahoo ’cause Google actually didn’t exist then, who was Peter Fraser in Australia. He sent me this paper on quantum biology. I reckon I understood like about 10% of it, was totally fascinated, and that’s when I felt honestly something that I hadn’t felt in the last six, seven years, which was hope. I volunteered to become his research guinea pig. So I was bit like the guinea pig in the story, like the mouse in a lab. I was experimented on daily. I got all these incredible reactions. Like, I’d get a boil where I’d had an MMR vaccine from an antidote to a vaccine. I’d get these fevers, all sorts of weird excretions, and little by little, I ended up getting my energy back and slowly started living my life again, being able to go on dates, go rock climbing again for the first time, rebuilding friendships, and perhaps more importantly for this conversation, I ended up starting our bioenergetics research and development company, and today, that company that we started with Professor Fraser, it’s turned the research into many different technologies that are able to detect and correct your health and energy. 

Really, well, really, for so long, we’ve been using chemistry or mainly actually drugs to treat symptoms. These pharmaceuticals cause side effects over time, and of course they only treat the symptoms, not the root cause of disease. But in this whole process of discovering bioenergetics, we really discovered a way that you can restore people’s health in a chemical, toxin-free way. And I know you mentioned epigenetics, and I’m sure you go down the epigenetics rabbit hole for sure. But we basically discovered a way where you can change the expression of genes without side effects that’s affordable for everyone.

Kashif Khan

It it’s incredible, your story. ‘Cause I’ve heard of the work that you’ve been doing in bioenergetics and how you’ve been helping people, but to hear the background of what got you there, a lot of the great healing stories start from self-healing. The motivation is so powerful that you end up finding things that don’t exist because whatever’s working or whatever’s out there doesn’t work for you. Here’s another case of the same. Some people would say, “Well, you did it to yourself. “Why’d you break your back? “You should have taken it easy,” but that probably wasn’t the actual cause. It just led you up to where you got to.

Harry Massey

Yeah, no, absolutely. I think, well, you do do things to yourself, but I mean, this is going to I guess a more spiritual, like, life purpose type aspect. But yeah, when you look at most great inventions or great discoveries, generally most of those people, if not all of those people, have had extreme hardship, which is what drives them. And honestly, I mean, without that drive to get better, I don’t necessarily know what I would be. But I did an economics degree at university. I was probably just gonna work in London for a bank or stock broker, something fairly that, I’m not saying it’s dull, if there’s any stock brokers listening. But yes, it put me on my path for sure.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, great adversity creates great advancement. That’s kind of what led you to where you are. So for the people that aren’t familiar, because I know this is a fairly new sort of spoke of medicine and wellness, what are the main principles of bioenergetics? Well, how would you describe it?

Harry Massey

So its Wikipedia definition is the study of energy in living systems and sort of what we were alluding to. Chemistry is being studied, I say to death, but you know, basically chemistry is a known thing. But really, the physics of biology and study of energy in living systems, it hasn’t had the trillions of dollars that biochemistry has had. So that’s its definition. And really, really, there’s sort of three principles to think about in terms of how it can heal you, and I’ll just state them. Then I can go into more detail of what they are. So one is like, life is an energy exchange system. The second is this a concept that I call that the body is a battery, and the third is that fields can govern, basically govern energy or your energy control system. So I’ll just go back to the first one. So when we’re looking at life, here we are, sitting on the earth. 

The earth is basically mostly, not mostly, it’s entirely powered, powered by energy from the sun. All of our food through photosynthesis comes from the energy of the sun. So we’re all pretty used to that idea that in the plant kingdom, like, the plants live off energy, live on photons, but yet in the animal kingdom, we just sort of think, well, no, everything’s powered by food. But ultimately, when you’re looking at how energy is generated in the cell and the ATP chain, it’s basically all from electron transfer. Sure, food, sugars, basically sugars, carbohydrates, fat, they ultimately convert to electrons in your mitochondria, but they’re not the only source. But light and ambient heat are why you need to eat slightly less in the summer than you would in the winter months as a source. Obviously you’re breathing in oxygen. Without oxygen to, basically without oxygen, you also don’t have energy. 

Oxygen is actually 90% of your energy source. It’s the most sort of direct and immediate, and if you stop breathing, within a few minutes, you die. You can go for weeks or arguably months without food. I guess one of the other sources is electrons, electrons from the ground. So yeah, one principal is just thinking about how you can optimize your energy exchange with the environment. And the reason that’s important is because you basically wanna increase your level of energy within your system, which brings us to the second sort of core principle, which is that the body is like a battery. And from that particular viewpoint, so most of us, if we’re healthy, our body, our level of energy in our body is fairly high or medium, medium level to high. But when you get sick, the body’s energy flow becomes so inefficient and you’ve ended up using so much energy that you basically deplete your energy right down here. And if you don’t have energy, you basically don’t have energy to repair, or the simpler word is heal. I know this is a genetics summit. So you need energy to actually split DNA and RNA, to make repair proteins that you must get to basically go and repair and heal the body. And if you are continually using your energy, i.e. you’re super stressed all the time; maybe like us, you’re an entrepreneur or something. You’re just always burning. 

You’re always burning up the candle. Then you don’t have energy available left to repair and heal. So, as far as sort of bioenergetics is concerned for healing, it’s a very, very important principle to make sure you have more energy available each day or in a period than the energy you need for just thinking, digesting, day-to-day living. ‘Cause without the energy being above your normal daily needs, you can’t actually heal. So it’s a very important concept, and there’s a lot of ways of doing that. Well, there’s all sorts of therapies that are very restorative, things like hyperbaric oxygen or massage or ozone. Like, they’re all quick ways that you can get more energy in the body and help it restore so there’s energy available. And then the third point, which is basically fields govern your energy. This is the much more interesting and slightly more complicated one, but it’s not that complicated. Okay, so you’ve got energy. 

So assume we’ve got energy available to heal you. How do we direct that energy in? How do we make sure that energy goes to actually create the correct epigenetic expression, create the correct repair proteins, et cetera? And that’s all really down to what we call your energy control system, but really, if you like, it’s like the master control system in the body. And traditionally, we’re all used to there being a chemical-based control system, i.e. your thyroid produces thyroxine, the thyroxine travels around the blood, and then there’s a little sort of supposed lock and key in the cell, and then the molecule enters the cell and it basically all sort of works like that. However, there’s also a field-based control system, and honestly, when you’re comparing a chemical-based control system and a field-based control system, where a chemical-based control system is a little bit, yeah, wrong is not quite the right word, but where it breaks down a little bit is that it’s not as efficient as a field-based control system because it’s basically slow or a lot slower, because the chemical has to travel through the blood to get to the particular receptor. 

If you’re in a car crash and you’re instantly reacting, that’s basically, well, your nervous system information traveling through your nervous system on a field-based type control system. Or, well, actually, while we go down the nervous system, the nervous system has, the nervous system actually travels at all sorts of different speeds. It has different thicknesses. That’s why it channels at different speeds. It’s disjointed, and even a conventional nervous system can’t really control the body instantaneously at once. The majesty of the body, there’s three trillion reactions happening at any one time in the body. And for all of that to happen exactly at the right moment, at the right time, it can’t happen through a chemical control system. that’s sort of traveling slowly, neither a disjointed nervous system. So for that you basically need a field-based control system. And it’s mostly, it’s not solely, but I think for brevity, it’s mostly a photon-based control system, which enables it to be instantaneous, basically allowing your control system to happen in realtime. And the bottom line is if there’s a distortion in your control.

Kashif Khan

You were talking about control system.

Harry Massey

Yeah, so with a field-based control system, what really matters is, so let’s say there’s a breakdown in the control system. And for example, if someone has cancer, that’s the ultimate breakdown in a control system, because cells just start growing where they shouldn’t. But all disease at some level is a breakdown in the control system. That basically means energy is not being used properly. It’s not flowing properly, which makes it inefficient. And that sort of goes back to that the body is a battery type idea. So what can end up happening is that the body becomes so inefficient it’s burning up all this energy, and it’s reducing your body battery down, your body battery, your energy level too low, so you don’t have enough energy to repair itself. 

So really, really, to sort of get yourself healthy again, it’s super important to optimize your control system. I think all the work you are doing with epigenetics and genes is in that same similar ilk. Like, you want the body’s repair system and control system to work optimally. Because if it does, you can use energy efficiently. If you’re using energy efficiently, and energy in the end is the currency of life, as in very directly, like, there wouldn’t be life on earth if there wasn’t energy. So yeah, it’s really, it’s really those three principles combined that’s sort of at the core of bioenergetics and how you can get people well.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, that’s really, I mean, there was some nuanced stuff in there that was really cool that you touched on that I hope everybody caught, like the difference between, we think of food, what you said in the very beginning, as something you eat until you feel full, right? And that’s kind of where our limit, our relationship with consumption is limited, but that’s where it kind of starts. Like you said, it’s not about a consumption, but more of a transfer of energy, which is such an interesting way to look at. You’re literally consuming this thing to take on the energy that it imparts on you and the nutrition and the minerals, what it derived from the ground. It matured from the earth, pulled things out of the earth that need to be delivered to your system, as opposed to here’s a carrot, right, which is kind of the way people think about food.

Harry Massey

Exactly, and also, to actually get that energy to work in your body, it’s combined with oxygen, which is really another source, it’s really another source of electrons. There’s a whole, well, both in Chinese, from qigong and then obviously in the Ayurvedic world and all the breathwork and yoga, you can optimize how you get energy through breath work as well. That’s honestly probably the quickest way for someone to learn energy. Well, go and do breath of fire and some breath holds or some qigong for five, 10 minutes. That’s gonna increase your energy more than eating the carrot or the sugary drink.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, and the funny thing is that people hear that and they think, “Well, my doctor hasn’t told me this, “and this isn’t science.” But science already will tell you that every cell in your body takes in oxygen and nutrition to create energy. That’s basic biology, right? That’s taught at high school and university. But we don’t consider the practical implication of that, that you need to take in nutrition and oxygen to create energy, which means if you take in more oxygen, you’ll get more energy. That’s what breathing is. When you put it in the context of breathing, it just sounds too easy to be real. But it is that real. That’s why you see people, like you said, qigong masters we talk to.

Harry Massey

Honestly, yeah, you just think, I mean, if I go back to when I was really sick, you’re just like, yeah, that’s not gonna heal me. Like, what’s all this woo-woo type stuff? Funny enough, it’s not ’til, well, at least in my case, I’m very into breathwork now, but it took a long time to appreciate and see how it works.

Kashif Khan

It’s hard to measure, and that leads us to the other area that really resonated in what you said about where our interpretation of outcome is based on biochemistry, and we have this sort of funnel that forces us down that route of thinking, because all of what we’re measuring in healthcare is chemicals, right? All the blood work we’re doing, everything is around biochemistry, so of course the measure of success is also gonna be around biochemical intervention. This is the same difference between symptoms and systems, or illness and root cause. If you’re only looking at the biochemical measure, then you’re only looking at the outcome of whatever you did wrong 10, 15 years ago and kept doing wrong for so many years that finally led to that chemical imbalance that you now measure and treat, which really is a symptom. And the way you put it was, sort of made it easy to understand in terms of, well, there’s biophysical or bioenergetic before that, like, many layers before that.

Harry Massey

Even matter, matter ultimately comes from energy. There’s a very famous Einstein equation, which is E=mc^2. I mean, it literally says it right there: energy equals matter. This is probably gonna be horrible to biochemistry people, but there’s been experiments where they’ll take chicken, like, they’ll take chickens and won’t feed them any calcium, and yet, they’re still making eggs. They’re not as calcified for sure. And then when they burn the chicken and all the eggs and then they calculate all the calcium at the end, the bottom line is somehow, the chicken was able to manufacture calcium. And really the only explanation is it’s basically making it out of energy. So anyway, in the body, you don’t necessarily need all these absolutely super precise amounts of every element. It’s actually, well, at least from my point of view, it’s more important to optimize energy, ’cause if you’re deficient in energy, that’s when you really are sick. Increasing energy is actually, to me, it’s the quickest way of recovering.

Kashif Khan

So the second thing you said about the concept of the battery, I heard recently, and I don’t even remember where I heard this, that we have 10,000 times the light of the sun as energy in each individual human being. Yeah, maybe if you’re six 6’2″ or 5’2,” it goes from 9,500 to 10,000. who knows, right? But it’s in that range and it’s all compressed within these walking black holes that we are, that’s condensing all this energy. So through bioenergetics, are we saying that, okay, first of all, we’re breathing and we’re taking and we’re creating, but how do we tap into all that exists?

Harry Massey

Yeah, well, the next level of that question is, or I say of explanation is, so I just said it’s a battery for simplicity, right? It’s closer to a water battery. So there’s a scientist at University of Seattle called Gerald Pollack. He studied structured water in EZ Water. Before he did that, he was a cell biologist, but the bottom line of all of that is water inside a cell is different to bulk water we have in a glass. That water is more like a gel. It’s H3O2 instead of H2O, and when it’s H3O2, to what you were saying there, it’s able to absorb, basically it’s infrared, you call it light or heat, however you like to say it. But it’s basically an infrared wavelength. It’s able to store that energy, and it’s also able to release, well, what’s the word, sorry. It basically transforms photonic or heat energy into electrons, and that source, those electrons can then be used by energy in the body. I briefly said it the beginning, like in the summer, you don’t need to eat as much in the winter. That’s why. It’s because you’re actually converting heat and light into a source of electrons that your body uses, which, you don’t read that any in any diet books, but it’s true.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Okay, so earlier on, you had said that, during your healing journey, you had tried things like oxygen chambers and different things, and you kept struggling, and then eventually you got things right. So what did your protocol look like? Like, what did you do to go from bedridden to back to rock climbing?

Harry Massey

So, originally, I think when I was 26, I ended up meet meeting the scientist in Australia who’s called Professor Fraser. He was the one who, like, before I met him, he’d spent the previous 25 years basically mapping out what we now call the human body field, but basically, the field of energy in the body, or in other words, that energy control system. And so he made, I’ve got one on the table. So he was making, he didn’t, God, he called them magnetic monopoles or something in those days, but we call it an infoceutical. It’s basically this idea where we’ve recorded the information of, like, it could be a healthy liver, healthy kidney, et cetera, but it’s basically the information that will help the body’s control system go back to home homeostasis. And it’s sort of related to the idea, it’s related, but exact opposite of the idea of homeopathy. 

Whereas in the idea of homeopathy, you can take a dilute substance of, sorry, of something that will cause the symptom. But the insight we had and Peter had was like, well, why get the body to attempt to react against something, because it goes back to the body battery idea of that takes too much energy if you try and get the body to react against something a bit poisonous. Why not just give the body, “Now, look, your liver “or your brain or your emotions should look like this.” And if you tell the body in what direction to go, and it has the energy, like, to answer your question, my two ways are very simple. It’s like one, I was exchanging energy with the environment so I could recharge my body battery, and two, I was directing that energy within the body, basically optimally. And if you do that, the body will heal itself in the end, because you’re telling the body how it can be, like, this is the optimal blueprint or how you can be when you’re functioning properly and you’ve got available energy. 

If you’ve got the two together, they’re working, the body’s healing system gets activated, and you heal. That’s the bottom line of how I got healed. There’s a lot of ways you can do that. I mean, a hyperbaric chamber is a way that you can increase the energy in your body while you’re resting. Ozone steam tents might be another way. Breath work, qigong, yoga, all these things are other ways. Gently walking is actually a great way, because if you walk for two, three hours, which sounds quite hard if you’re sick, but you just build up to it, because just in moving, you’re exchanging so much energy with the environment that ends up recharging your battery. But of course, if you are trying to go on a fitness type thing of like, “Well, I’m gonna run or bike,” or have all these goals in your head, that’s actually, you don’t wanna do that, ’cause that’s depleting, just from a pure, I mean, I’m not talking about, from a pure healing aspect, which is different to peak performance aspect. From a pure healing aspect, you just wanna optimize the exchange of energy without depleting yourself. That’s why things like walking are great.

Kashif Khan

So when you hear about it, it makes practical sense, but then somebody might say, well, how do I know it’s working? I went and bathed in the forest and spent some time. I don’t know, and it may take me years to find out. But you have this concept that you talk about that I think may answer that. You say that when someone immerses themself in bioenergetics it’s detect, correct, and protect, right? Those are the three things that are kind of the process which you go through. So how does somebody know they’re doing it right, and what do these three things mean? What should they be doing?

Harry Massey

So in our NES world, which is the main company we’ve been talking about, so we have a system that will basically scan that energy control system and look for where the blockages are. So you basically can just simply see, okay, well, my liver energy is off, my kidney meridian is off. Like, I’ve got this mind/body trauma, et cetera, et cetera. Do the scan. So that’s the detect bit, and the correct bit is, we’re basically correcting the body’s energy control system through infoceuticals. The protect bit is through personalized meditations, and what we really mean by protect is we wanna help protect the body’s energy, ’cause one of the biggest ways we lose it is literally, it’s literally emotional stress. It’s because of how we’re reacting emotionally to day-to-day situations, you know, we get frustrated, anxious, all those sorts of things. So we basically help to educate people through personalized meditations to help protect their energy. So that’s basically all on that.

Kashif Khan

So putting some metrics to it, I know you talked about changing your genetic expression as an outcome. Like, that’s some measurable outcome. So where are we seeing that change? Where in that epigenetic expression? Has this been measured? Is this something you’re tracking?

Harry Massey

So well, I can tell you some Russian research. Like, the Russians, it’s sort of really interesting, but when you look at DNA and RNA, they’re sitting basically in gel-like water in the cell. So the only thing that’s next to them is H302, this gel-type water. And so, the DNA and RNA, ’cause it is basically splitting, it’s selecting the right part of the DNA chain to then go and create the repair protein. For it to do that, mechanically, it’s only gel-type water that’s actually like, mechanically nudging. And then the question is like, well, why would water mechanically do that? That’s basically where it comes into this field-based idea. There’s really only two things that are going through water. You know, one is infrared. It’s basically heat, and that’s the source of energy, because you can’t get anything to happen mechanically without a source of energy. So the source of energy is that; it’s heat, and then of course it’s like, well, what is it selecting and why? 

And that’s basically coming from the field to the body side, God, it’s in, no, I can remember. There’s a book called The Emerging Science of Water. There’s a collection of mostly Russian, but it’s been translated to English of Russian papers that show all of those experiments and research papers. That’s one way. In our research, we actually haven’t done an epigenetic test on, but we should have. What we have done, so we have some studies going on at University of California. We’re doing one, or we’ve done one with stem cells, and basically, we present the imprinted fields, well, sorry. So when you take a cell culture, they basically live off a medium, which is basically like saline water, a bit of sugar. We imprint that medium with our infoceutical set of information, and one experiment we did is we basically wanted to increase the growth rate of stem cells. And in a 10-day period, we basically increased the growth rate of neuro stem cells by 50%. There’s another experiment where we were looking at the cell membrane, and a cell membrane is basically keeping out nasty things, letting in good things, et cetera, and obviously excreting waste material out. We were able to increase the cell membrane’s resilience, or if you like, resistance to foreign toxins. So that’s another experiment. 

And then, ooh, this is a fascinating, well, I hate COVID. I said I hate COVID once. I just don’t like talking about COVID, because everything in 2020 and ’21 at universities was all about COVID, so they of course wanted to do COVID research. Anyway, so they basically took lung tissue. They had a control, and then they had another culture of lung tissue, which they then imprinted with some, it’s a bit more complicated, but basically information that will reject coronaviruses. And anyway, they saw a 20% additional rejection rate when we imprinted that lung tissue. Then weirdly, ’cause we had provided them an HRV set of information and they had an HRV virus around as well. I dunno why you’d infect along with HRV, but they did. And then in that case, they saw a 50% rejection rate with the HRV. 

We’ve got some other, you know, we’re in talks with some other universities for repeating and doing some additional experiments, which is great, ’cause honestly, as a company, Professor Fraser, he was in Australia, he was part of Melbourne University, but Melbourne University really didn’t like his research and what he was doing, because it was going against Big Pharma. Actually in the end, he was kicked out. That’s actually why his work, I ended up being able to work with him as a 26-year-old, ’cause he wasn’t in the university system when I met him. And obviously we struggled within the company to get other universities to do it, because generally, universities are a little bit afraid to look at or back anything that’s holistic or against big pharma interests. But 2020 seem to have changed that, ’cause we’ve now got three different universities who are open to doing research.

Kashif Khan

So do you see, with all this research going on, that’s sort of now putting measure and evidence to things, a different horizon, where this becomes therapeutic or more mainstream? ‘Cause right now, I’m sure most people listening haven’t even heard of the concept, although it’s flourishing and there’s there’s outcomes that are measurable. What’s the intention behind the studies, that one day you walk into a doctor’s clinic, and this is part of their toolkit?

Harry Massey

Yeah, super good question. I mean, in the end, well, it’s sort of a bigger picture than our company. So let’s say you’ve had a hundred years. I don’t know how much money, but it it’s in the trillions of dollars that has researched chemistry, different pharmaceuticals, et cetera. But you’ve had, I don’t know, it’s like, it’s probably less than a hundred million, I would guess, that has researched the physics of biology, because in the end, there’s no case for a chemical drug, that’s there’s an outcome. And so really, I mean, really, the reason we’re doing it is actually we wanna catalyze interest right across society. 

So like, I mean, sure, it would be good for our company, of course, but I’d be over the moon if a bunch of other researchers, universities, other companies, were inspired to do more research, like, other nonprofits got going and backed it, because in the end, the promise to society. I mean honestly, it’s like literally, I mean, we’re missing 50% of the picture. Like, we know the biochemistry part, and it’s super important, but the physics of biology, it’s a whole other 50% of the health or biology coin that we don’t know much about, but its implications, its implications for reducing costs in healthcare, for increasing the effectiveness obviously for healing people, are huge, and they’re way beyond the company. So yeah, we’re just trying to get the ball rolling. God, I mean, if people wanna help with that, I mean, we do have a nonprofit at the Institute of BioEnergetics, and 100% of the money, like we don’t take any admin fees or anything of that rubbish, 100% of the money goes to the universities that are researching. But yeah, I mean, it’s a really important project for me.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, that’s very cool, that you’re actually working towards the advancements outside of your own company. Like, it’s just the general wave. They say all boats rise with the tide. So you’re creating that tide, right? And with things like this, we think because we don’t have access to the solutions that the sort of powers that be haven’t researched them, but typically they have. They just haven’t been able to commercialize them. So they understand just as much as you or whoever’s working on them how effective this stuff is. It’s not that they doubt that it works.

Harry Massey

And a lot of people are afraid, honestly, in this space. Sometimes you come across, I definitely come across people every whatever it is, every couple of years, who have got some amazing invention, who cured a lot of people with something in this space, but they wanna stay under the radar, ’cause they think the FDA’s gonna put them in jail for whatever, or they just get too protective, which is a shame, ’cause, well, I mean, generally, like anything, you know, as long as you don’t make a direct product claim, that isn’t really true, you know? It’s much better for society if people get the word out.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, and that’s the reality, is that the research and the publications allow you to make claims, FDA clearances, but what we can see is that the people in need no longer are judging any product or service by the standard mainstream yardstick. They want the anecdotal data. They wanna know that somebody got better. That’s good news to me because on the stuff that I’m told is evidence- and science-based, I’m not hearing about people getting better. I’m hearing them staying in some form of treatment with a disease for some number of years and just managing it. But hearing about reversal seems like a miracle when the only miracle is that people like yourself go out there and access and unlock knowledge, which really is ancient knowledge that our ancestors knew that we forgot, because we went down a different path.

Harry Massey

And the body wants to heal. God, I mean, how would I describe it? The magic of the human body, I mean, I dunno, I like to say the body basically is its own miraculous doctor. If you put it in the right environment and give it the right resources, it will heal itself. So I guess it’s back to that environmental epigenetic idea. It’s like, you can put a cell, if a cell is in, you provide it with a toxic medium, toxic environment, or you’re feeding it bad blood, the cell deteriorates. If you give it nice, fresh, great blood, the cell recovers. Well, our bodies, like, we’re cells. We’ve got all the blood feeding the cells, and then if you like, there’s this outside environment that’s sort of like the blood to the body, if you like. If you optimize the environment, you can optimize your blood to optimize your cells.

Kashif Khan

So your business with the interest in infoceuticals, or I’ve never actually said that word before. That was the first time. So your intention now is that, with what you’ve discovered in terms of root cause, you now have a suite of products that solve these things and that, I think I heard you say are like, organ-based or system-based? How does it all work?

Harry Massey

Yes, there’s 82 infoceuticals. There’s basically 16 organs, 12 meridians. There’s different ones that affect different tissue terrain, which can correlate to different viruses and bacteria. And then we have like, there’s 12 or so or ones for all the emotions and some mind/body type correlations that happen, and then yeah, all of those are selected by the overall scanning system, which we call the Bioenergetic Wellness System.

Kashif Khan

Hmm, so people go through some form of an assessment to personalize and help them navigate and select what they actually need?

Harry Massey

Yeah, exactly. Basically, they go to our site, which is neshealth.com. On there, they can either, well, yeah, they can basically find a practitioner, and the practitioner can work with them remote remotely. So they can do the tests remotely, and then the infoceuticals are just drop shipped to them.

Kashif Khan

Very cool. This term of infoceuticals, I mean, it’s such a cool name. Is anybody else doing this? ‘Cause I literally haven’t heard this term before.

Harry Massey

We are the only ones. So I mean, the rest of either like the homeopathic or energy medicine world, they’re all in that reverse idea where they’re either testing for viruses or toxins, or, again, they’re presenting something like a homeopathic where they want the body to respond to it. We’re the only, well we’re the only people, and the reason we’re the only company is because of, our co-founder was Professor Fraser. He’d been mapping out the information of human body field for 25 years before I met him. That was 20 years ago, so it’s like 45 years ago now. That’s why, basically, ’cause we’re the only one with that map.

Kashif Khan

Hmm. So before we leave, I know this is.

Harry Massey

We won’t be the only people in the future, ’cause researchers are gonna get on this idea.

Kashif Khan

Yeah, yeah. That’s for sure, and you’re sharing research with the world, which, it’s kinda like Elon Musk opened up his patents and said, whoa, if everybody starts working on this, then the whole industry’s gonna get better. There’ll be charging stations everywhere, etc. You need infrastructure to change the world, right? So, before we go, I mean, this was really awesome. It was insightful for me, ’cause you took some things that I’d sort of seen in bits and pieces and put them together, made it easier to understand. For someone that you know is hearing this and believes that this is something they wanna work on, what’s two or three things they can do literally tomorrow just to get started and start working on how they influence their energy?

Harry Massey

It’s probably honestly those three things we started with at the beginning.

Kashif Khan

Same three.

Harry Massey

So, just think about how, think about how you can optimize your energy in the environment. So things that are free would be breathwork, qigong, go for a walk. They’re all free. Obviously I would recommend having a scan, because then you can actually see where all the blockages are in your energy system. And from that, I say it’s pretty inexpensive. They’re like $30.

Kashif Khan

What kind of scan is that?

Harry Massey

It’s called the Bioenergetics Wellness System. You can do it through voice, so hence you can do it remotely.

Kashif Khan

Okay, very cool.

Harry Massey

As I say, it’s on neshealth.com.

Kashif Khan

Oh, so they can actually access it through your website.

Harry Massey

Yes, they can access the practitioner who will coach you and then take them through, ’cause we as a company don’t offer it direct to the public, so they’re working via practitioners. But you know, on all that note, I think this summit’s coming out in August, is it?

Kashif Khan

Yes, yeah.

Harry Massey

In August. In November, we’re actually coming out with a wearable that will detect, correct, protect your energy. Basically the wearable, that is a direct consumer product. If you wanna look up that, that’s energyforlife.com, although it won’t be available ’til November.

Kashif Khan

Very cool. So this wearable is gonna track your current state in terms of quality of your field?

Harry Massey

Yeah, it’s not as detailed as the practitioner system, but it does track your energy, different emotions, and obviously it does basically correct what it’s detecting in real time.

Kashif Khan

That is awesome, and the work you’re doing is incredible. I’m sure people appreciate hearing this today. I urge people, go to the website. Check it out. At least get the scan done and start to understand where you’re at. Maybe make some changes. Thank you again, Harry. This was awesome.

Harry Massey

No, thank you. Thank you very much.

Kashif Khan

It’s a pleasure.