Explore The Thyroid, Adrenal & Mold Nexus

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Thank you so much for having me. I love the work that you are doing in this world. Thank you for creating this event to spread awareness about mold-related issues.

Ann Shippy, MD

Yes. Thank you. I know you have had some personal experience, and a lot of the people familiar with your work are also dealing with mold issues. I think it is a perfect collaboration to have you with us today.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Absolutely. It is just that I feel mold can happen to anybody. You could be eating the healthiest diet, exercising, and doing all these things. But if your home environment or your work environment is exposed to mold, and many people do not even know that they are, this can sabotage everything. I am so excited to be here with you to spread awareness.

Ann Shippy, MD

You have focused on the thyroid and adrenal. I thought that you would share a little bit about how you came to be such an expert in these areas.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

By way of being a human guinea pig. Yes, I think many of us have started having some health challenges. Unfortunately, at a very young age, starting around age 18, I started having chronic fatigue. I was an undergraduate, and I was going to sleep at 4:00 for a quick nap, and then I would wake up the next day at 1 p.m. and I would miss my exams. It was just very strange that I ended up having more and more progressive symptoms. I started having some depression. I started having anxiety attacks, panic attacks, brain fog and hair loss, carpal tunnel in both arms, allergies, IBS, and acid reflux. It just kept going. I do not know how I got through undergrad and how I got accepted through pharmacy school, I guess. I just had to focus on my studies and not so much on social things.

Ann Shippy, MD

You are smart. I am sure that helped you learn things quickly.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Thank you so much. I appreciate that. When I got through pharmacy school, I was in this world. I am so tired, and I feel awful all of the time. I would go to get checkups, and I was told, There is nothing wrong with you, or you are just getting older. Everybody’s tired. Everybody is working too hard. You are anxious because you are in graduate school. Of course, you are going to feel that way. Of course, I was 25 at the time, and it was not until I started working with some clients with rare disorders as a consulting pharmacist that I realized that there are some doctors out there who can dig deeper. Then there are some doctors and professionals who just cover the basics. They may not even think of themselves as bad people by any means. I think that everyone I have ever worked with has done the best they can, but sometimes we just do not know what we do not know. I just found a doctor who was a bit more comprehensive. At that point, I learned that I had Hashimoto’s disease with high thyroid antibodies.

Ann Shippy, MD

Your thyroid labs did not show a lot of what was going on. It was just the antibodies.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

I had my antibodies in the 2,000+ range, for which I spent under $35. They were super high. These have been tied to anxiety, obsessive-compulsive disorder, fatigue, feeling unwell, miscarriages, and a whole bunch of other symptoms that have been correlated with thyroid antibodies even before there is an alteration in thyroid function. I had a mild alteration in thyroid function by the time I was diagnosed, so I did have subclinical hypothyroidism. What that meant was that some doctors were on the fence about whether you should start thyroid medication or not. I am glad that I did start thyroid medications because, even though my THs were only 4.5 or went up to eight, I was a slob. I was so exhausted and so cold. But taking a little bit of thyroid hormone helped me feel better. It did not. It was not the cure. I did not go from being a couch potato to a marathon runner overnight with the meds. I had to start digging deeper to find out what the additional triggers were that were causing me to have this autoimmune inflammation in my body. That is how I became essentially interested in functional medicine and root-cause medicine, and helping to become, I guess, a Hashimoto’s and thyroid expert was just through my health journey, trying to get myself to feel human again.

Ann Shippy, MD

What was next on your journey? You figured out that the thyroid was at the root of it. How did you get yourself well?

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

One of the first things that I did, and this was such a tough thing for a foolish girl, was go gluten- and dairy-free. I had been on multiple medications for acid reflux: proton pump inhibitors, Pepcid, and Tums. I just had this huge kit of things to take because I just had constant acid reflux. Within three days, the acid reflux had gone dairy- and gluten-free. My digestive function normalized as well. I was shocked, and it sounds strange, but I was. You are not supposed to have stomach aches after you eat. That was a first for me in my twenties to realize that just getting off of those two foods, a lot of the carpal tunnel symptoms vanished. Just the overall inflammation in my body seemed to go away. I had been an avid worker-outer, so I was going to fitness classes, Pilates, yoga, and all of that. I always had this bloated tummy. All of a sudden, I was. I have abs under there. This is what it feels like not to walk around bloated 24 hours a day. That kicked off my journey. There were a lot of turns and twists along the way, and I ended up figuring out that I also needed to balance my blood sugar. I needed to support my adrenals. I figured out what gut infections I had and how to resolve them, and then I worked on supporting my detox pathways as well. It took a lot of trial and error. I did tons of testing. Some of the tests were useless, but some of them were very helpful. Then I did that for a little while, until about three years, until I got myself into remission at the beginning of 2013. I had been documenting all the things that were working. I started to release a book about this called Hashimoto’s The Root Cause, talking about some of the things that I did to take back my health. A lot of it was nutrition-based; the food is medicine, as well as utilizing nutrients that are commonly depleted in people with thyroid issues.

Ann Shippy, MD

Yes, it is just such a beautiful story how it all unfolded for you. Over time, you got to the root causes, and then you found them. Tell me more about what ended up happening with your thyroid and getting those thyroid antibodies down.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Thankfully, I was able to get my Hashimoto’s antibodies into the remission range. Most importantly, my symptoms vanished. No more IBS, no more acid reflux, no more panic attacks, no more hair loss. My skin was bad again, and I just felt like I had awakened for the first time in many years. I was spending so much time just being chronically exhausted that to have all of this energy, to do things, to be able to, I would sleep from 9 p.m. to 9 a.m. and wake up tired, and all of a sudden I could wake up at seven in the morning and stay up until 2 to 3 a.m. to see, do things, and not be tired. It was incredible. I felt I gained a lot of my life back, and then I started working with clients, and at that point I was, Okay, let us do this; let us do all these tests; let us try this. Surprisingly, they were not as excited about doing all the tests as I had been. They were also not as excited about trying various things. At a certain point, I came up with a liver support protocol that helped people feel better in just two weeks, and I wanted to tie this together. The liver protocol helps the person detoxify from many different toxins that are present in our environment, including mycotoxins and mold toxins that can be very triggering for a lot of people with thyroid issues.

I knew I had a few people. I was. You are just not getting better, or you are off of gluten, or you are off of dairy, but you are still struggling, and you are sensitive to so many different supplements and vitamins. Something is going on with your gut allergy symptoms. There is so much inflammation that you are holding onto your weight. You have some cellulite, and perhaps you have some estrogen dominance. It was, okay, I think there is some toxicity going on there and using a nonspecific liver support protocol for two weeks. This is something that helped so many people within just that course of saying, Hey, I have been able to lose weight, my skin issues cleared up, and my brain fog is so much better. This has been a big feature of my work over the last eight years or so, focusing on getting the toxins out and supporting the body’s detoxification pathways.

Ann Shippy, MD

I want to elaborate on that some more, but I just want to go back and emphasize something that I saw with patients at the time that I think a lot of people missed, and that was that your thyroid antibodies went into the remission range. Most physicians do not know that that is even possible. I think it is important for people to know that it is a goal to have any autoimmune markers. We should be working with the body and iterating to find these key things that help you to get into remission and also not just be satisfied with this idea that they are gradually getting less energy with aging. It was ridiculous to tell you that at 25, but if you are 35, 45, or 55, people know to take that on, and they think, Oh, this could just be because I am getting older, that it does not have to be. I just wanted to emphasize that piece of hope that you bring.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Yes. It is interesting because people in their 30s, 40s, and 50s might believe it, but it is not meant to be this way. In the part about thyroid antibodies, I have seen a lot of people say it does not matter because they are always going to be at that level, so you do not need to retest them. I have even heard some well-meaning physicians say you do not need to lower them because they do not attack the thyroid gland. If you look deeper at the research, they are correlated with miscarriages, mental health symptoms, anxiety, and OCD, and the very things that lower thyroid antibodies are also helpful for managing OCD, anxiety, and blood sugar issues, helping people feel better, and having better outcomes in pregnancy. One of the things that I did when I was trying to get into Hashimoto’s remission was utilize the selenium supplement. anywhere from 83 micrograms to 200 micrograms per day can be helpful with lowering thyroid antibodies, usually by about half over three months. This is also something that has been studied to improve pregnancy outcomes.

Another thing that came out in the last few years was some research using Myo-Inositol for Hashimoto’s about 600 milligrams of that, and it works in synergy with Selenium too. This can help balance blood sugar for some men and women. With the subclinical hypothyroidism situation that I had, they were able to normalize their thyroid function without taking medications. The interesting thing is that it can also be helpful for PCOS and fertility, and it can also help balance blood sugar as well as conditions like obsessive-compulsive disorder. The interesting thing is that it is thought that people with hypothyroidism tend to be deficient in Myo-Inositol, and this supplement is easy to take and tastes sweet. It is not nastier or disgusting. This is incredibly helpful for young women, older women, and women who are struggling with all of these symptoms. It is all that to say that the thyroid antibodies are a marker of something being out of balance in your body. A lot of times, you can correlate the thyroid antibody markers to some of the symptoms and other things that are happening. We can find targeted ways to address that. 

Ann Shippy, MD

Yes. It is so interesting too, because it is hard to find labs that will measure these things.  In science, such an important mineral should be an annual screening that we do. But it is hard to find a lab that does that accurately, and then it takes inositol to measure inositol. I have to send that up to a lab in Germany, but it should be part of checking your vitamin D and your antioxidant levels, your cholesterol levels, and the things that we should be doing, at least on an annual basis, to see if we are getting everything that we need from our diet and supplements. These are great recommendations.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Yes, I do wish these tests were more accessible. Generally, these supplements are going to be well tolerated. But, of course, I always advise people to talk to their doctors and practitioners. Always, the old pharmacist says, Start low and go slow. Even though I might have mentioned 200 micrograms of selenium and 600 milligrams of myo-inositol, I also tell you to start with tiny doses if you are trialing that and talk to your practitioner.

Ann Shippy, MD

Especially if you are sensitive. But there are two important things. Inositol makes up our cell membranes. Of course, we are deficient in that nothing’s going to work quite right. Those are great solutions that are backed by good science.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Readily available too. I love that they are easy.

Ann Shippy, MD

I love how you are tying together all these different symptoms that people are experiencing, especially from environmental toxicity or mold toxicity—the brain fog, the hormone disruption, their infertility—all of those things are often what people are experiencing in their bodies when they are exposed to mold. Keep going. You are doing great. What are your other thoughts on these pieces of work that people could be implementing to help? Then I would love it at some point. If you get back to talking about the liver support because it is such an important piece of this,

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Yes, absolutely. One of the things that I have observed in people who have more toxicity in their bodies is that they hold on to their weight, and there is a bit of a theory that the solution to pollution is dilution. When you tend to carry a heavier weight on your body, this dilutes the toxins, and in my experience there, I have seen two types of toxic people: people who are very, perhaps, thin, but they are very fatigued, and they might have skin issues. Then some people are a bit heavier, and they tend to not have as many skin issues and maybe not as much fatigue, but they know that this is how their body defends itself against these toxins.

My two-week liver reset focuses on getting rid of the low-hanging fruit in your environment: Are you microwaving your food into plastic? That is going to be a tough thing on your liver. Every time we put toxins into our bodies, this can create a liver backlog for the average person. A little bit of plastic here, a little bit of suntan lotion, or a little bit of perfume might not be as big of a deal. But if you already have a big toxic burden, such as being exposed to mold, heavy metals, or something else, then you can become very sensitive; you become chemically sensitive to basic things that most people find benign.

I had one of my earlier clients. She had a hard time going to the mall with her family because every time she walked past a Yankee Candle store, she would have trouble breathing and she would break out in hives. It was just too much for her to handle utilizing the liver reset, where you clean up parts of your home life, and then you would do a sauna four times a week. then we can go through some of the details, but then we can utilize some supplements and foods to help support the detox pathways. She was, and I can go to the mall with my children again. This is amazing. This does not bother me anymore. Part of that is cleaning up, removing some of the toxins, and giving the body a little bit more support to carry out those toxins.

As you are well aware, mold and toxins go through various liver pathways to get eliminated, depending on the toxin. They might need to go through glucuronidation or glutathione conjugation. There are a whole bunch of these pathways where the liver clears stuff out. Carry stuff out. Sometimes, when we become overburdened with toxins, we run out of cofactors and all of these amino acids and things that help that delivery do its job. Taking some of these supplements or getting them through food can help carry some of those toxins out of the body and can help a person feel much better in a very short amount of time.

Ann Shippy, MD

Now, at this point, with all the different testing that I have done on patients, I just feel everybody needs to be taking these things regularly because there are just so many exposures that we cannot control anymore. I love that you are targeting some of the ones that people are not even aware of—sunscreen and microwaving in plastic—but it is getting to be even more concerning. based on the labs that I have been doing over the last five years, where I am getting to look at the toxin levels in people. I am so happy that you are getting this information out there because I think people probably do the two weeks and then they want to stay on it. They want to keep going.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

It is so true that that is one of the challenges I have had. I am updating some of my guidelines because, when I first started, I thought it was a one-time thing. If you just do it once and then forever, you are going to be healthy. But it turns out that that is not necessarily the case. I had a personal situation where I was mold exposed, and it was that life happens. You get exposed to mold, or maybe you do some travel, or I stayed out at hotels when one of them had mold visible on the wall. I was okay; please change my room. This is not where I want to be. But after that point, I was able to test my mycotoxin levels, and I was. Of course, I am exposed to these things, and then I would be able to look at the organic acid test, and some of them were already colonized within my body. Just going through, I love Great Plains Lab. They have rebranded recently to MosaicDX Diagnostics, which I will get every time.

Ann Shippy, MD

I know it is coming to the Great Plains, even for my patients. Then they ask, What is this Mosaic thing?

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Exactly. But they have some fantastic labs people can do, such as the organic acid test and the mycotoxin test. There is one called the toxin screen. You can look at your toxic burden while doing this testing. Now, the cheat sheet for these is N-acetyl cysteine and sauna, which are probably going to be two of the most helpful things you can do to clear out your toxic burden. But there are also amino acids. There is milk thistle and magnesium citrate. Making sure that you are moving your bowels daily and getting proper hydration are some of the additional things that can help you clear out the toxic burden from your body. I love it. Part of my recommendation is that if you can do a sauna four times a week for 30 minutes, that would be amazing. If not, fine, find a way to sweat, because a lot of toxins, including mycotoxins, cadmium, and various other toxic substances, can sweat them out better than we can get them out through different pathways.

Ann Shippy, MD

Especially if those pathways are already a bit sluggish. It does make a huge difference. But one of the things that I think is so great about your work, Izabella, is how you make things so easy to understand and implement. You do a great job of making things feel like they are not overwhelming and that you just take the next best step and then put things together in a way that people can feel a difference pretty quickly.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Thank you so much. I have to give credit to my professors at the pharmacy school. We had a whole semester of taking pharmacology concepts and health-related concepts and translating them into eighth grade. That was every week we had to meet, and they were, No, the way that you are explaining this is not going to make sense. Please make sure that you explain it in a way that is straightforward and easy to understand because people are oftentimes overwhelmed by all of the choices and all of the different things that are going on with their bodies. In my experience, I have had some clients who want to get a Ph.D. in biochemistry and whatnot. But most of them, honestly, just want to feel better, and they have some degree of brain fog. I just try to make it accessible and approachable for people because I know what it is to have that brain fog and how hard it is to just do daily things. I have personally gone through adrenal dysfunction myself a few different times, and this is oftentimes another part of the big presentation that people that I have worked with have.

Sometimes, because they are mold-exposed, they might get into this stage of adrenal dysfunction. Sometimes it might be, for a whole list of other reasons, that their body gets stuck in this stress response and they are feeling overwhelmed; they are feeling brain fogged. They are sometimes, unfortunately, hopeless, and this is part of that presentation. My goal is always to give them little things that they can do that move the needle and make them feel better so that they can awaken and have more brain function and vitality. Perhaps we could take baby steps and make you feel a little bit better every day, and after a certain point, you will realize you are thriving.

Ann Shippy, MD

Maybe this is great. That is exactly what people need to have hope that they can get to the other side. There may be some people who are listening who do not understand what adrenal dysfunction is, and I know that has been an important focus of your work more recently. If you want to explain a little bit about that, I think that would be super helpful.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Definitely. I want to say that it is a bit of a controversial term. I guess when there is a condition known as Addison’s disease, which is an autoimmune condition that impacts our adrenal glands, generally, people are going to be diagnosed when 90% of the adrenal glands are going to be destroyed. At that point, they do need to take medications to replace what their body is no longer able to produce. This is not the same as adrenal dysfunction. Adrenal dysfunction is essentially a state of burnout where the body becomes overwhelmed. Psychologists have done a good job of raising awareness about psychological burnout, and you just feel super burned out. But there is also a physical and logical component to it, too. When we focus on the psychological piece and the physiological piece—the mind and body—we are connected. Typically, the symptoms are going to be brain fog, fatigue, hopelessness, anxiety, irritability, and feeling overwhelmed. That is a cardinal feature being disconnected from the circadian rhythms. Rather than waking up bright-eyed and bushy-tailed in the morning and jumping out of bed, you feel sluggish in the morning, and you have a hard time coming out of bed in the evening. You might get a second wind, and you might be tired, but all of a sudden, you cannot fall asleep. If you do sleep, your sleep might not be restful. You might be waking up multiple times throughout the night. This is a big part of that presentation. Salt cravings, sugar cravings, being addicted to coffee—you can override.

Ann Shippy, MD

They do quite a bit with the coffee and the caffeine.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Absolutely. You just push through. Perhaps some people are dependent on substances like wine or alcohol in the evening to relax themselves. This could also be a potential sign or symptom. Again, this is not a disease or disorder. This is essentially what happens when we have more stress than we can process. Our body does not know what to do with either current trust stress, past stress, stress, or a combination of all of those.

Ann Shippy, MD

Beautifully described. I think that with all the stress of COVID and now that I think that put almost everybody into some level of adrenal dysfunction, just that all the uncertainty and the fear about what was happening in early 2020 and beyond, I think a lot of people are still stuck in that over-the-top stress response. They were activated at that time. Is that what you are saying as well?

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

I would say so. I used to work with people primarily with Hashimoto’s autoimmunity, chronic fatigue syndrome, and fibromyalgia. I would tell you that most of them had some degree of adrenal dysfunction. During the pandemic, pretty much everybody that I met had symptoms of it. Your average mom would have issues with anxiety, trouble falling asleep, or just raising thoughts and all the worries. I do think that humanity, as a collective, is going through something that can be very traumatic. Sometimes that trauma stays with you, and people will say that what does not kill me makes me stronger. In my experience, what does not kill you sometimes stays with you and weakens you over time, unfortunately. That is what trauma can do. That is what some of these physiological exposure disturbances can also do, where they just weaken your overall resilience. I would say that I see adrenal dysfunction in a lot of people these days, and most of them do not have Hashimoto’s. I used to think it was more of a component of autoimmune disease, but now I would say more people seem to have it. I do not know if that has been your experience.

Ann Shippy, MD

It is. I feel people’s adrenals when I measure them with the saliva tests are either way in overdrive or they are almost flat-lining. But again, not to the point where the endocrinologist would just agree with the diagnosis. But you can see that they are out of balance with how their adrenals are making the neurotransmitters and hormones that the adrenal glands provide.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Yes, absolutely. I was personally excited to get a book out about adrenal dysfunction because I felt it was super relevant to people at this time. I also found some shortcuts and some additional ways to support that stress response. Part of what I used to do was test people’s adrenals with the Saliva Test, or I would do a DUTCH Test with them, and then I would look at their patterns and use various protocols, sometimes hormones like pregnenolone, DHEA, or adrenal glands, fillers, etc., to balance people out. This can work well for a ton of people. But then there are some contraindications to the hormones. For example, if people have a certain dominance, they might over convert DHEA to more estrogen, which you do not want if they have a history of cancers that are driven by estrogen. This can be an issue some people might have; they might convert various things to the wrong things, and you end up with more symptoms than relief from your symptoms. The other thing is, that I do not think people should take hormones. I am all into biohacking and people taking charge of their health. But with hormones like pregnenolone and DHEA, you either need to do this with a doctor or you need to do it yourself.

Ann Shippy, MD

Because it does have long-term and pretty significant consequences. Thank you for acknowledging that. But because some of these are just over the counter, people start taking them. Initially, they might feel better, but they may be doing some harm, such as increasing the risk of cancer. Thank you so much for making people aware of that. You are onto Biohacks.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

There are other things you could do besides that to produce your hormones naturally that are not going to be in super-physiological doses that can drive all of these other pathways.

Ann Shippy, MD

Getting to the root and helping your adrenals, not just putting a Band-Aid on there, go for it. Let us share.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Yes, absolutely. I grew up with glandular, which is another thing that some people do well with. But I have had some sensitive people who are, I took glandular and I thought I was going to have a panic attack or they can also suppress your HPA access, which means your body will then not be able to make its hormones because it thinks you are getting them from this glandular. In the same way that if you were to take high-dose steroids over some time, especially if you took them too late in the day, I wanted to focus on things that people could do that were very safe and synergistic. One of the ways that I help people balance their stress response is by using Epsom salt baths. You focus on getting more magnesium into your body that way. Magnesium gets burned out when we are under a lot of stress. Magnesium deficiency can cause headaches, anxiety, trouble sleeping, hormonal issues, menstrual cramps, and so on. One of the things we can do is soak in an Epsom salt bath for 15–20 minutes sometimes if it is a tough day, and maybe an hour. This can help relieve some of those symptoms and help people sleep deeper.

 There is a school of thought that it can also increase DHEA levels. I do not know how long you need to do this, and I do not have a lot of experience. If I have 100 clients with their before and after results, I feel comfortable saying that this works. I do not know what it is. I cannot say I am not going to put my money on it, but it is a natural way to support your health and your adrenals and then replenish things like B vitamins, vitamin C, and electrolytes. This can be incredibly helpful for rebalancing that stress response because these are the things that tend to get out of hand when we are stressed out, just to be clear, when I talk about stress, it could be from something in your current life, like your annoying work environment. It could be a traumatic experience living through a pandemic, but the stress could also be physiological, like being exposed to mold or having a chronic infection in your gut. All of these things can send a person into that adrenal dysfunction state where they are burning through a lot of the nutrients that are then needed to produce stress hormones and neurotransmitters. That is part of what we need to do to get back to baseline. A lot of times people will say, Oh, I thought I had migraines or I thought I had this, and sometimes it is as easy as getting more riboflavin on board and more magnesium on board. It is not always 100% of the time. It is not always the solution, but it can be helpful just to do those foundational things.

Ann Shippy, MD

It is foundational because the adrenals need those precursors to be able to produce what they need, do you see a lot of improvement with the dietary adjustments as well? Do you have a favorite adrenal diet?

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

I do focus a lot on blood sugar balancing as part of the adrenal protocol. This helps people a lot with the weight gain they can experience. It can help with some of that mood stability throughout the day. People who feel anxious or irritable, people who wake up in the middle of the night, and blood sugar can be very relevant for this. then anybody with fluctuating energy throughout the day. If you are somebody who is there every day at 3 p.m., I crush, part of that could be that blood sugar piece. The Paleo diet is the template for it, where we eat lots of protein and generally more fat than the average person gets, and we cut out some of the inflammatory foods like gluten, dairy, and grains for 30 days just to give the body some time to recalibrate and balance itself out. I also utilize Myo-inositol as part of that to help with the blood sugar balance, and then carnitine because this can help people get a little bit more. It does a lot of different things. 

One of the things it does is help people use fat for fuel a little bit more efficiently. This is one of the things that I found to be incredibly helpful for people with brain fog. I will use a combination of l-carnitine with a small amount of acetyl l-carnitine, and this helps a lot of people with muscle pain and helps people with brain fog. It was studied in women with thyroid fatigue specifically. This is how it got on my radar. I was having, thyroid fatigue. It showed that about 1000 milligrams twice a day of carnitine can help resolve thyroid fatigue.

Ann Shippy, MD

That is just easy. Yes, very easy. Then, after the 30 days, what do you advise people to do diet-wise?

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Generally, if they feel well on a Paleo diet, this is going to be a safe diet for people to continue long-term. I do know that life happens. Some people may wish to add different foods back or have them on occasion. I think it just depends on that particular person and what they can tolerate. I know personally that when I was first on my healing journey, I was doing the Paleo diet, which is a little bit of an autoimmune Paleo diet. This might be something that people with Hashimoto’s might need to do. Not everybody.  Then I went back to more of a gluten-free and dairy-free diet, adding back some grains and things. But in the last few years, I have not thought about grains as much. I would say, listen to your own body. If you are having blood sugar issues, if you are having PCOS symptoms, or if you are gaining too much weight, these would be some suggestions for potentially diving back in on your blood sugar.

Ann Shippy, MD

You mentioned the Paleo, autoimmune diet just for people who are not familiar with it. Go ahead and explain that one as well. It is taking Paleo a little bit more seriously.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

It is a little bit more restrictive. I do not necessarily utilize it for every single person permanently; it is something. The Paleo diet is pretty much gluten-free, dairy-free, and free of soy-processed foods and grains. The autoimmune Paleo is free of all of those things in addition to legumes, but they also remove nightshades, which would be things like peppers, eggplant, and tomatoes. They also remove nuts and seeds. You have a few more additional restrictions with that diet. The thing with Hashimoto’s and autoimmunity is that people can become sensitive to a whole host of different foods. so the foods that they are eating can cause inflammation in their body, leading to symptoms and potentially elevating Hashimoto’s antibodies.

Now, my focus is on repairing what happens if you have people on a restricted diet forever and ever, and eggs are also excluded. My focus is on repairing what is going on in that person’s body. Typically, we focus on nutrient depletion, gut health, adrenal health, toxins, and all of those things to give people more food back. specifically with eggs, for many people, this could be a sulfur issue. Their body is not able to process sulfur properly, and you can begin to process sulfur properly and no longer have egg sensitivities. For example, if you add molybdenum to your routine, you can also have a protocol that is focused on thiamin, molybdenum, and butyrate, which helps to rebalance the microbiome a little bit. then the person and I will not say that anaphylactic reactions may not work, but people who could not eat eggs before can incorporate them into their routine.

Another common food that people may be sensitive to is oxalates. A lot of times, that means making sure you have the cofactors to break them down, such as P5P, which is the active version of B6. You are also looking at, okay, why am I growing oxalate in my body? If it is, you probably have a rare condition that can cause this, but also having Candida and mold overgrowth in the body can cause you to produce oxalate, and there is also this pathway, the oxalate pathway, where if you take too many lysine-8 supplements or glycine, you can essentially produce oxalate in your body through this pathway. I know that gets a little bit into the biochemistry and the weeds of things, but we want to look at why your body is not tolerating these foods. I do not want you to just eat ice chips all day.

Ann Shippy, MD

Knowing that a lot of these restrictions are temporary, some tend to be better if you stick with them perfectly, or perfectly and permanently, as with the gluten in the dairy. But with a lot of the other restrictions, once you heal to settle down the immune system, it can be better, but it can be helpful for some people to go to that level of implementing a restrictive diet for some time. Then just to clarify what the oxalates are?

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Yes. Oxalate is typically found in foods, generally beets and spinach.

Ann Shippy, MD

Those are my favorite foods.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

I know. They are so good for us, too. They are thought to have high levels of oxalate, and the various symptoms people have tied to them would be kidney stones, which I think are probably the most popular. But there are also bladder issues, pain in the body, and waking up throughout the night. These can all be potential symptoms of oxalate sensitivities. I know that sometimes getting off of oxalate can be very helpful for those symptoms. I would typically recommend doing an Organic-Acid test to see if your plates are elevated before you do any of that. If they are elevated, then maybe you would want to reduce the dietary intake of the oxalate, or if you eat them, eat them with magnesium citrate or calcium citrate to block some of the absorption. But also figuring out: what is your body making so much, and why are you not tolerating those foods. Oftentimes, it is making sure that they are processed correctly, and do we have enough of the cofactors B6 or P5P to clear them out? What is driving their production in the body?

Ann Shippy, MD

Or low-grade infections. Yes, that is great. You are covering all kinds of awesome topics that are so related to people with normal because often they do end up with these low-grade chronic infections with bacterial and fungal overgrowth that then cause the oxalate levels in the body to rise. I do think it is an important area of why these symptoms are occurring from mold.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

I know that there are always these different food trends that I see where people are talking about the low histamine diet or the low oxalate diet. I am on social media, and people are there. I have been online for the last ten years, and I can look at what people are asking on social media or through my customer service. Now and then, different diets will trend. It is oxalate, and everybody has oxalate issues. Instead of eliminating any of these foods forever and ever, please do an Organic Acid test and see what is driving that, because it could be some overgrowth in your body. 

Then it was the same with histamine issues. I know people, like histamines, but our bodies should be able to break down the histamines we get from our diet for the most part unless, unless you are, various types of fish and way too many of them. That is another red flag for me when people have histamine issues: to look at what is driving those histamine issues. Is it again? Is it mold overgrowth? Is it something of a P5P deficiency? Is it something like a gut infection? H. Pylori and blastocyst hominins, which are two infections that can trigger Hashimoto’s, can produce histamine. Dientamoeba fragilis is another one that I just learned about in the last year or so. That can also be a histamine producer in the gut. I always urge people to ask more questions and dig a little bit deeper into histamine and oxalate issues. If you have not gone down and explored whether mold is part of what is triggering your body, then please, make sure you do that.

Ann Shippy, MD

Very well said. anything you want to share more about your own mold story, or I know you just had a recent water issue, and anything that would be helpful to the listeners to know about that.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Absolutely. I just thought it was funny because we were talking about being on the mold summit, and I just finished releasing my book, and I was trying to get through all of my to-do’s, and all of a sudden I got mold exposed, and it reminded me, and I am, that I need to get to the Mold Summit, and I need to get the word out about it. We had a toilet leak in our master bedroom, and all of a sudden I found myself tired and pessimistic. I am one of those people who is very optimistic, to the point where it annoys other people because I am always optimistic. Let us look at the bad side of things, and somebody will say, This person is a jerk, and I will be. But have you thought about their childhood or whatever? I am always very

Ann Shippy, MD

An internal optimist. You are such a bright light.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Absolutely. All of a sudden, I found myself irritated and very pessimistic. I was. Is it because I am just tired? I was falling asleep on the couch; I gained some weight, and my brain was not working. I am sitting at my laptop trying to get things done, and I am. Why? I just hope it doesn’t work. I cannot focus on anything. I go into my bathroom, and I see there is a spot on the floor. I was like, Wait a minute, how did that get out of it? How did the water get out of the toilet? Then I looked behind me, and there was a leak, and the baseboards were warped. and we have a small child, and he was acting moody. My husband and I were wondering, Why is our son so moody? Are we terrible parents? What are we doing? All of a sudden, my husband takes out the baseboard, and sure enough, it is warped and has a bit of mold growth in it. It was less than maybe I clean my toilets every week. It was at least barely there for a week when that happened. Fortunately, my husband’s been working on his handyman skills. He got everything out and made sure he got every bit of the wetness out. Then we ran a humidifier, and then we all got on binders and went to a sauna. I took advantage of the liver reset support. Within three, within 2 to 3 days, I am, okay, I feel so much better. It was just our son who was getting frustrated with things. We are; this is not your personality. What is going on? He is back to being his normal, charming self.

Ann Shippy, MD

Goodness, you caught it so quickly that it has been such a disaster, and that was such an important time with the book launch and everything.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Yes. This was about mid-May or so, and I just was. It just makes me sad for people who are exposed and who think that there is something wrong with them where they are. I have ADHD because I cannot focus, or I just mold exposure for me and the women I have with. You can be eating a perfect diet; exercising can just cause you to gain weight out of nowhere. The brain symptoms, and just feeling overwhelmed and pessimistic. Mold can mess with a person’s neurotransmitters. It can happen to anyone. I am passionate about letting people know because people typically think of asthma or allergies as the symptoms that you would experience with mold exposure. I did not have asthma. I did not have allergies. But there are things you can look out for. These might be skin issues like eczema in children or adults. This could be a red flag—definitely asthma and allergies, but also brain fog, depression, cravings for sugary things, and cravings for alcohol. I was just recently talking to a colleague who mentioned a client they had worked with in the past who had an alcohol addiction. But it turned out they were colonized with mold.

It is incredible how much damage mold can do to a person’s body and the amount of healing a person can experience once they remove the source of the mold and address the colonization in the body. This can be profoundly helpful. I used to think it was very simple. Many years ago, you could use binder charcoal. You could use the oil of oregano to kill the mold. That was all you needed to do. I have learned a little bit more over the last decade about making sure that you are removed from the exposure source and supporting your liver pathways. Various mycotoxins can also, depending on what you have in your body; for example, Gliotoxin, the toxin I had that was causing the brain fog, Saccharomyces boulardiis can be very good for helping to bind that out where other molds are. Other types of binders may be more effective. There might be some, but I appreciate the work that you are doing and getting into the nuances of the needs of people because not everybody will tolerate all of the different protocols, and we oftentimes need to tailor them to the individuals. Sometimes there might be brain support that they need to do, such as carnitine and choline, or even neurofeedback or something else to support their neurotransmitters. I appreciate you educating me about this and spreading awareness.

Ann Shippy, MD

Thank you so much. You just gave a great summary of the approach to popping adrenals and mold. What do you think people realize? Okay, I am being affected by mold. My adrenals are probably in survival mode, but where do you think the top things are for people to do to help their adrenal glands stay healthy in this situation?

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

We talked about the nutrients, the BC magnesium, and the electrolytes. Can be very, very helpful. Mold can mess with our diuretic system, and electrolytes can be part of restoring that. The adaptogens can also be incredibly helpful. I personally like Holy Basil, which seems to have some anti-mass cell properties as well as anti-histamine properties and seems to be one of my favorites for mold exposure. But there is a whole list of other ones that can help you stabilize some of your neurotransmitters so you can have anxiety that is brought on by mold and depression. The adaptogens help you tolerate stress a little bit better; they make you a bit more resilient, a little less anxious, a little less overwhelmed, and perhaps boost your mood a little bit. I love to utilize them, and whether you have high cortisol or low cortisol, they can be very helpful. Oftentimes, people around you become less annoying when you take a nap.

Ann Shippy, MD

That is beautifully said.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Then I also utilize mold and Candida when we have them in our system; they could mess with our blood sugar. Of course, the blood sugar balance can be helpful with more protein and fat in your system, and utilizing myo-inositol can also be very helpful for these exposures. Then probably the biggest thing in my client population has been the brain fog, and carnitine can be incredibly helpful for clearing out some of that mold, the brain fog. Saccharomyces boulardii is what I use as part of my adrenal protocol because whether we are mold-exposed or under a lot of stress, this could suppress our inner immunity. Secretory IGA is something that lines our intestinal tract, and this is our first level of defense from pathogens. Let us say you are eating sushi and somebody has good levels of secretory IGA. You could not eat the same sushi, but you are the one who gets the illness from it. Then you can also be more susceptible to various types of infections as well as food sensitivities. I put people on Saccharomyces boulardii as part of the protocol, and that naturally raises their secretory IGA levels. It makes their gut a little bit more resilient. It also tends to clear out some of the pathogens, such as Candida and a little bit of mold binding, to help the body get rid of them and has some benefits against H. Pylori, which can be commonly seen in people with mold when the bile does not do what it is supposed to do, keeps us more sterile. then it also helps with infections; the protozoa infection that I have seen to be potential triggers in Hashimoto’s, such as blastocyst huminis, is just taking Saccharomyces boulardii for 30 days. You can just clean up the gut a bit, and that can be a big game-changer for people.

Ann Shippy, MD

Beautiful. That is a very reasonable list.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

I try to keep it very small because I do not want people to be overwhelmed with all of the different things that are out there. After all, there are thousands of different supplements, medications, and protocols that people can try. But then there are ones that can have multiple benefits that people can utilize.

Ann Shippy, MD

Beautiful. Okay. Well, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, your heart, and your great stories with us about how to bring hope and the building blocks for healing. I love to let people know how to find you.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Sure. Thank you so much for having me. It is such an honor and pleasure to connect with you and to get this out into the world to help more people. My website is thyroidpharmacist.com, so people can find me there. I have Instagram accounts for Izabella Wentz PharmD and Facebook Thyroid Pharmacist Dr. Izabella Wentz, and then I have books about Hashimoto’s that are available on Amazon. Hashimoto’s The Root Cause and Hashimoto’s Protocol are two of my most popular books, and I also have a cookbook with autoimmune Paleo and Paleo recipes that we talked about. My newest book is The Adrenal Transformation Protocol. For people who are in that stress response state, sometimes because of mold exposure with the brain fog, this book is for you because it can help you feel better in just a few weeks while minimizing some of your symptoms.

Ann Shippy, MD

Well, thank you so much for everything you are doing out there in the world, for all the people you are helping, and for being such a bright light.

Izabella Wentz, PharmD, FASCP

Likewise.  Thank you so much.

Ann Shippy, MD

Thank you.